England vs Wales 9th March

by maestegmafia Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Let's look towards the next game after getting ourselves back on track against France, just like last year, after the Irish put the spanner in the works.

by sickofwendy Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:17 pm

Lancs thinks that players need a couple of weeks training to remember the moves,unless you are a fat prop.

by BamBam Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:32 pm

Would you rather Goode at 10 than either 36 or Ford?

Nowell/May would be preferable FB options if the result of having Goode on at FB means Brown on the wing if we have a wing injury

Let's be honest, the chances of bionic Brown getting injured are far less than the 2 brittle chaps we have on the wing

by Scratch Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:33 pm

Cuthbert would prefer to show his heels to Brown again on the wing, but fullback will do.

by lostinwales Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:33 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again!

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit?

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England?

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing.

By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.

Who else? Eastmond has a cap or 2 vs Argentina and has been part of the system. He is also versatile and slippery with ball in hand in a way that Goode isnt. And dont take the 'but Goode is great for Saracens' line because he might be at that level but not at this. (Same for Strettle actually. Looked the real deal when he was first capped and might still do great things for Saracens but I dont want to see him play for England again).

Daly because he is also a versatile player. He hasnt got the caps yet but he did score a couple against the Lions even if it was a micky mouse game.

Look at it this way - nobody really screams 'pick me' in the absence of the injured and returning from injured, but Goode as has endlessly been debated fills plenty of us with no confidence at all.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:40 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

by Knowsit17 Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:42 pm

Disappointed about Charteris but not displeased to have Ball to fall back on, had a solid game against the French. The real question mark still hangs over AWJ, hasn't been good since the Lions and behind on training and possibly match fitness. But what were the odds Gatland would drop one of his exclusive default-starters if he had the slightest excuse not to?

by bedfordwelsh Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:45 pm

knowsit,

I doubt AWJ is that far off the pace in terms of fitness as he was till in the starting line up only a few hours before the French game.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:45 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Disappointed about Charteris but not displeased to have Ball to fall back on, had a solid game against the French. The real question mark still hangs over AWJ, hasn't been good since the Lions and behind on training and possibly match fitness. But what were the odds Gatland would drop one of his exclusive default-starters if he had the slightest excuse not to?

Another Englishman in Ball, it's like England v England!

by beshocked Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:47 pm

Bambam than 36 definitely yes. With Goode vs Ford depends...I have much more faith in Goode's goal kicking. He's also the more experienced player.

Eastmond - versatile and slippery with ball in hand. Very Happy

Another of these "creative" "exciting" players who doesn't live up to the tag...sigh... For someone with this billing I expect more.

Daly - versatile? Really?

If no one screams pick me then Goode is no worse than the options you suggest. At least he has some international experience plus he's actually a better player than Daly and Eastmond at the moment. Okay he's not as fast. Speed is not everything.

I think sometimes England fans get too obsessed with people with a bit of pace - wow player X made a good run - let's get him in the England team!

Player who genuinely deserves the hype is Wade but he's injured unfortunately.

by beshocked Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:53 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs? You might not have an issue with Nowell and May but I think it's still debatable whether they should be in the England side let alone told to cover 15. Joseph - adds impact? Another overrated player who hasn't proven himself.

Brown on the wing didn't work vs Wales last year agreed but it has actually worked most of the time. We beat the ABs with him there. It would just be a temporary patch job - plus he scored a try there vs France. No I don't want it to be a permanent feature but as a temporary measure....

You would prefer 36 to Goode? Based on what? The ability to choke when your side needs you to kick a penalty in front of the posts to win the match?

by Knowsit17 Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:54 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Disappointed about Charteris but not displeased to have Ball to fall back on, had a solid game against the French. The real question mark still hangs over AWJ, hasn't been good since the Lions and behind on training and possibly match fitness. But what were the odds Gatland would drop one of his exclusive default-starters if he had the slightest excuse not to?

Another Englishman in Ball, it's like England v England!

Fine, I just won't comment if it's immediately taken out of context and the thread kept from getting back on topic

by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:57 pm

"You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs?"

does he add impact or is the argument that he is just a wing sub so we dont have to stick brown there instead!

by tazfalklands Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:58 pm

Getting fed up of 1 or 2 Welsh fansquoting stats abot last years result, 3 match winning streak, SL losing every time so I thought I would look up some of my own. All care of wikipedia
Win Lose Draw record
England
90's
Rugby World Cup 11W, 6L, 0D
Five Nations 32W, 8L, 0D
Test Match 18W, 15L, 2D
00's
Rugby World Cup 12W, 2L, 0D
Six Nations 33W, 17L, 0D
Test Match 27W, 24L, 0D
10's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 1L, 0D
Six Nations 16W, 6L, 1D
Test Match 11W, 9L, 1D
10's 31 wins 19 losses 2 draws
164W, 88L, 4D
Wales
90's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 7L, 0D
Five Nations 12W, 27L, 1D
Test Match 30W, 15L, 0D
00's
Rugby World Cup 5W, 3L, 0D
Six Nations 23W, 24L, 2D
Test Match 27W, 32L, 1D
10's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 2L, 0D
Six Nations 16W, 7L, 0D
Test Match 6W, 20L, 1D
10' 26Wins 29 losses 2 draws
127W, 137L, 5D

And Record against major opposition since 2010

England-Argentina 4W, 0L
Wales-Argentina 2W, 1L
England-Australia 3W, 2L
Wales-Australia 0W, 8L
England-France 3W, 3L
Wales-France 3W, 3L
England-Ireland 4W, 2L
Wales-Ireland 3W, 3L
England-Italy 4W, 0L
Wales-Italy 5W, 0L
England-New Zealand 1W, 2L
Wales-New Zealand 0W, 4L
England-Samoa 1W, 0L
Wales-Samoa 1W, 1L
England-Scotland 5W, 0L, 1D
Wales-Scotland 4W, 0L
England-S Africa 0W, 4L, 1D
Wales-S Africa 0W, 4L
England-Wales 3W, 3L

Clear to me that stats pretty much say that England are the better team. But that is not going to make a difference on Sunday

by Scratch Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Disappointed about Charteris but not displeased to have Ball to fall back on, had a solid game against the French. The real question mark still hangs over AWJ, hasn't been good since the Lions and behind on training and possibly match fitness. But what were the odds Gatland would drop one of his exclusive default-starters if he had the slightest excuse not to?

Another Englishman in Ball, it's like England v England!

Y A W N

We know things are bad when English posters start on the 'where was he born' angle.

Where was Manu born, or Mako, or however many other players in the English team who have ancestry other than Surrey? Jake Ball is eligible and that is all that counts. Wales didn't ship him in from another part of the world, there is no WRU policy to ensure eligible players come to Cardiff as there is in other countries, they didn't poach him, they didn't manipulate him.

He wants to play for us.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs? You might not have an issue with Nowell and May but I think it's still debatable whether they should be in the England side let alone told to cover 15. Joseph - adds impact? Another overrated player who hasn't proven himself.

Brown on the wing didn't work vs Wales last year agreed but it has actually worked most of the time. We beat the ABs with him there. It would just be a temporary patch job - plus he scored a try there vs France. No I don't want it to be a permanent feature but as a temporary measure....

You would prefer 36 to Goode? Based on what? The ability to choke when your side needs you to kick a penalty in front of the posts to win the match?

I thought Yarde was excellent in the AI, his pace & power scare opposition.

36 has looked decent at 10 for Gloucester.

Beshocked....you're turning this into an anti Sarries thing, it's not. It's an anti Goode from the bench thing. He offers no impact when he comes on.

by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:02 pm

taz wrote:Rugby World Cup 4W, 1L, 0D
Six Nations 16W, 6L, 1D
Test Match 11W, 9L, 1D
10's 31 wins 19 losses 2 draws
164W, 88L, 4D

should be 16

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:03 pm

Scratch wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Disappointed about Charteris but not displeased to have Ball to fall back on, had a solid game against the French. The real question mark still hangs over AWJ, hasn't been good since the Lions and behind on training and possibly match fitness. But what were the odds Gatland would drop one of his exclusive default-starters if he had the slightest excuse not to?

Another Englishman in Ball, it's like England v England!

Y A W N

We know things are bad when English posters start on the 'where was he born' angle.

Where was Manu born, or Mako, or however many other players in the English team who have ancestry other than Surrey? Jake Ball is eligible and that is all that counts. Wales didn't ship him in from another part of the world, there is no WRU policy to ensure eligible players come to Cardiff as there is in other countries, they didn't poach him, they didn't manipulate him.

He wants to play for us.

Imagine these boards if England fielded Welsh players!

Just another English born selected by the Welsh, get your own players!

SL actually joked he missed the boat with Ball.

by Scratch Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:07 pm

They obviously have no desire to play for England, except Morgan and you are welcome to him

Oh, and Owen Josh Lewsey….you can have him back too.

by BamBam Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:14 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs? You might not have an issue with Nowell and May but I think it's still debatable whether they should be in the England side let alone told to cover 15. Joseph - adds impact? Another overrated player who hasn't proven himself.

Brown on the wing didn't work vs Wales last year agreed but it has actually worked most of the time. We beat the ABs with him there. It would just be a temporary patch job - plus he scored a try there vs France. No I don't want it to be a permanent feature but as a temporary measure....

You would prefer 36 to Goode? Based on what? The ability to choke when your side needs you to kick a penalty in front of the posts to win the match?

Back to the same old points. Yarde looked the best winger England have had for quite a while

As I have repeatedly said, I have no club allegiance, but your Sarries bias can be annoying. All the above players are apparently overrated, but the likes of Goode who have shown the grand total of F all and would add F all off the bench are absolutely fine.

Goode vs Ford is an actual decision for replacement 10 in your eyes Laugh

are you sure Barritt couldn't do a job there, I seem to recall he may have played at 10 in SA

by beshocked Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:14 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph? Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly? Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs? You might not have an issue with Nowell and May but I think it's still debatable whether they should be in the England side let alone told to cover 15. Joseph - adds impact? Another overrated player who hasn't proven himself.

Brown on the wing didn't work vs Wales last year agreed but it has actually worked most of the time. We beat the ABs with him there. It would just be a temporary patch job - plus he scored a try there vs France. No I don't want it to be a permanent feature but as a temporary measure....

You would prefer 36 to Goode? Based on what? The ability to choke when your side needs you to kick a penalty in front of the posts to win the match?

I thought Yarde was excellent in the AI, his pace & power scare opposition.

36 has looked decent at 10 for Gloucester.

Beshocked....you're turning this into an anti Sarries thing, it's not. It's an anti Goode from the bench thing. He offers no impact when he comes on.

No I am not turning into an anti Sarries thing. I just don't think your suggestions as replacements for Goode are particularly credible. If there was a credible replacement for Goode then yes I would probably agree.

For example I have nothing against Brown starting ahead of Goode at FB. How could I? I don't have a credible case in that example.

36 decent at 10 for Gloucester? Really? Disagree.

I champion underrated players and try and shoot down the overrated. It just happens that most Saracens players are underrated because they are not "attacking", "creative" etc. None are particularly viewed in a favourable light.

If Eastmond,Daly etc were tearing it up for the Saxons/for their clubs but they haven't really. They have not stood out to warrant an England spot. Ditto Joseph.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:18 pm

36 playing ok is detracting from the point that Goode offers nothing from the bench

by Tiger/Chief Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:19 pm

Just for the record Jack Nowell started the U20 World Cup at Full back forcing Anthony Watson onto the wing! Both players prefer full back if given the option!

I wouldn't necessarily be a advecote of Nowell starting at 15 but he certainly covers there! Hardly Ugo Monye!!!!!! Goode for me is a solid bench pick! Personally I don't understand picking him and Ford! If Tuilagi is fit he HAS to be in the 23 for me!!

by beshocked Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:21 pm

BamBam wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Somebody that adds impact Beshocked. You either start Goode or drop him, he adds nothing from the bench.

We have Farrell, Ford & 36 as FH option.

Brown, Nowell, May as FB options.

What happens if a winger gets injured??? Brown to wing!!!

I'd have Jon Joseph or Marlon Yarde.

Don't know about you but I definitely would not want 36 to step up at 10, even apprehensive of Ford doing it vs Wales but I will given the benefit of the doubt. I'd prefer 36 at 10 over Goode, irrespective as Ford is there.

Nowell or May as FB options? Just no. Neither have particularly shone on the wing. Putting them into another position would be like Ugo Monye all over again! Nowell is a FB and May has played a lot of games there, I'd have no issue with them there. I'd prefer Nowell at FB than wing.

Jon Joseph?   Is he even fit? Plays 13/wing adds impact and pace

Marland Yarde? A player whose just come back from injury? Someone whose barely played for England? Hes got a few caps, again a better winger than Brown and adds impact. He's been back for 2 games.

If a winger gets injured then yes Brown to wing. Brown lacks gas on the wing, it doesn't work
By the way smart for not mentioning Watson or Eastmond as options.

Lostinwales Eastmond and daly?  Hype over substance.[/b][/b]

You say Yarde adds impact. What exactly did he do in the AIs? You might not have an issue with Nowell and May but I think it's still debatable whether they should be in the England side let alone told to cover 15. Joseph - adds impact? Another overrated player who hasn't proven himself.

Brown on the wing didn't work vs Wales last year agreed but it has actually worked most of the time. We beat the ABs with him there. It would just be a temporary patch job - plus he scored a try there vs France. No I don't want it to be a permanent feature but as a temporary measure....

You would prefer 36 to Goode? Based on what? The ability to choke when your side needs you to kick a penalty in front of the posts to win the match?

Back to the same old points. Yarde looked the best winger England have had for quite a while

As I have repeatedly said, I have no club allegiance, but your Sarries bias can be annoying. All the above players are apparently overrated, but the likes of Goode who have shown the grand total of F all and would add F all off the bench are absolutely fine.

Goode vs Ford is an actual decision for replacement 10 in your eyes   are you sure Barritt couldn't do a job there, I seem to recall he may have played at 10 in SA

I already gave my reasoning. Goode has more international experience than Ford, he outplayed him in their recent encounter, is genuinely a better goal kicker - if we need someone to kick 3 points I would definitely back Goode over Ford - only need to look at kicking percentages in the AP. Ford has a lot of potential but would I really want him coming into the crucial 10 shirt with the game vs Wales on a knife edge? No not really.

Goode cannot be overrated because he is maligned. I personally don't think any options are any better. Goode has at least been in a team that beat the ABs and was instrumental in us beating Ireland in Ireland.

Yarde - best winger England have had for quite a while? Based on what? I would take a fit Wade over him any day of the week for example.

by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:21 pm

It would have been nice to have given ourselves the option of giving Manu a 20 minute cameo..

by Seagultaf Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:24 pm

Wales will really miss Charteris as without Evans, he was the only lineout specialist available. Ball is a very promising player but not a lineout specialist, neither is AWJ, both normally operate at the front of the line for their clubs. I think this combination is weaker that the one fielded against France and seriously weakens the Wales side.

by beshocked Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:26 pm

Tiger/Chief wrote:Just for the record Jack Nowell started the U20 World Cup at Full back forcing Anthony Watson onto the wing! Both players prefer full back if given the option!

I wouldn't necessarily be a advecote of Nowell starting at 15 but he certainly covers there! Hardly Ugo Monye!!!!!! Goode for me is a solid bench pick! Personally I don't understand picking him and Ford! If Tuilagi is fit he HAS to be in the 23 for me!!

Tiger/chief you cannot say that with conviction till you have seen Nowell play/cover at full back for England. Perhaps I am wrong - he might be a revelation in that position but I am apprehensive.

Tuilagi - now that's an option I can understand.

Sgt Pooly perhaps I am wrong. Goode could well be an error on the bench but I feel you are kicking the man down. I feel naturally inclined to defend him even if you feel it is illogical and based on bias.

I genuinely want to see the players you guys talk up perform well but seeing is believing.

by Scratch Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:28 pm

I agree regarding the loss of Charteris but both TF and SW are good options and i expect us to throw 2 in defense and 6 in attack and keep it simple.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:32 pm

The problem with Goode on the bench is he is there to come on at full back meaning swapping Brown to the wing. We should be keeping Brown at full back at every given opportunity. May and Nowell can cover full back so I would want a wing/midfielder on the bench. Come the AIs I don't think Goode will be in the match day squad.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:34 pm

I can only imagine good is there to fill in for Ashton's tackling

by BamBam Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:36 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The problem with Goode on the bench is he is there to come on at full back meaning swapping Brown to the wing. We should be keeping Brown at full back at every given opportunity. May and Nowell can cover full back so I would want a wing/midfielder on the bench. Come the AIs I don't think Goode will be in the match day squad.

Given the young players available, and Foden's return I'd be disappointed if he was in the EPS

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:41 pm

beshocked wrote:
Tiger/Chief wrote:Just for the record Jack Nowell started the U20 World Cup at Full back forcing Anthony Watson onto the wing! Both players prefer full back if given the option!

I wouldn't necessarily be a advecote of Nowell starting at 15 but he certainly covers there! Hardly Ugo Monye!!!!!! Goode for me is a solid bench pick! Personally I don't understand picking him and Ford! If Tuilagi is fit he HAS to be in the 23 for me!!

Tiger/chief you cannot say that with conviction till you have seen Nowell play/cover at full back for England. Perhaps I am wrong - he might be a revelation in that position but I am apprehensive.

Tuilagi - now that's an option I can understand.

Sgt Pooly perhaps I am wrong. Goode could well be an error on the bench but I feel you are kicking the man down. I feel naturally inclined to defend him even if you feel it is illogical and based on bias.

I genuinely want to see the players you guys talk up perform well but seeing is believing.

Tuilagi is just not fit and match sharp. Lancaster is handling him well, using the eps system to bring him back into training with the squad and manage the time he spends playing in club fixtures. England are taking charge if his rehabilitation to suit their longer term needs from him. Sucks for tigers of course but thts the deal thy signed, better than the provinces in term if access to their own employees.

In an ideal world he would be starting of course.
And all that doesn't change that Goode seesm an odd fellow to keep. I guess it shows they aren't ready to risk having a back 3 of nowell may and Watson if brown goes off. Hmm is it so silly?

by lostinwales Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:45 pm

beshocked wrote:Bambam than 36 definitely yes. With Goode vs Ford depends...I have much more faith in Goode's goal kicking. He's also the more experienced player.

Eastmond - versatile and slippery with ball in hand. Another of these "creative" "exciting" players who doesn't live up to the tag...sigh... For someone with this billing I expect more.

Daly - versatile? Really?

If no one screams pick me then Goode is no worse than the options you suggest. At least he has some international experience plus he's actually a better player than Daly and Eastmond at the moment. Okay he's not as fast. Speed is not everything.

I think sometimes England fans get too obsessed with people with a bit of pace - wow player X made a good run - let's get him in the England team!

Player who genuinely deserves the hype is Wade but he's injured unfortunately.

You know on the whole I do really respect you beshocked, and the fact that you are so consistent. But we keep on going round and round these same arguments and it gets very frustrating.

I do agree that pace is not the be all and end all. But look what happened vs France. We lost both our starting wings and replaced them with Barritt and Goode and got hit by a breakaway try from someone who was fast. I know its not that simple, but you want to have someone else on the bench or in the system who can cover that. We were left with an unbalance back line where everyone was one paced.

Goode is not a great tackler, hes not fast, his little hitchkick, or whatever he does when he tries to be elusive, usually comes right before he is smashed. He has brains and good positioning but he just doesnt offer anything at all, anything, that couldnt be covered better by the other players on the pitch or bench.

Look at it another way. What happens when someone goes off and Goode comes on. Are Wales going to think 'sh*t, Goode is on, how can we stop him?'

If , for instance, it was Eastmond then maybe people will think about the try vs Argentina where he wrong footed the whole midfield. If it was Watson they will have to think about his pace and size. None of these players are complete but they ask questions of the opposition that Goode just does not. Daly is also a running threat who covers center and FB.

We dont have good experienced back up that is healthy or on form, so we do have to look to and try out the young guns instead. We wont know how well they will manage unless we try.

by Seagultaf Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:07 pm

Scratch wrote:I agree regarding the loss of Charteris but both TF and SW are good options and i expect us to throw 2 in defense and 6 in attack and keep it simple.

Both Lawes and Launchberry are specialists in the lineout, so front and middle ball could be a problem and tail of the line relies on a very accurate throw, which is Hibbard's biggest weakness. Saying that the scrum will be stronger, but there are more lineouts than scrums.

by wales606 Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:37 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Scratch wrote:I agree regarding the loss of Charteris but both TF and SW are good options and i expect us to throw 2 in defense and 6 in attack and keep it simple.

Both Lawes and Launchberry are specialists in the lineout, so front and middle ball could be a problem and tail of the line relies on a very accurate throw, which is Hibbard's biggest weakness. Saying that the scrum will be stronger, but there are more lineouts than scrums.

Against France,

Charteris took 4 lineouts,
Lydiate took 1,
Faletau took 2
and Warburton took 7.

So 10/14 of the Welsh throws went to the backrow

I expect a few more will go to AWJ in the middle this week since he is calling - but Hibbard is perfectly capable of throwing to the back

by **Rugby Fan** Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:50 pm

A pedant writes:

It's Joe Launchbury, not Joe Launchberry

I can understand the confusion, because even some news outlets have got it wrong before. I wonder whether the RFU might have made the same mistake at one time:

http://www.rfu.com/fixturesandresults/playerdetail?PlayerID=27439

We've not had this much trouble since Mathew "one 't' in my first name" Tait. I do still have to think twice when writing Dallaglio, although I usually get it right. Vainikolo was always a vowel booby trap but Vunipola seems fine. Perhaps it helps having two of them.

by Scratch Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:53 pm

wales606 wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Scratch wrote:I agree regarding the loss of Charteris but both TF and SW are good options and i expect us to throw 2 in defense and 6 in attack and keep it simple.

Both Lawes and Launchberry are specialists in the lineout, so front and middle ball could be a problem and tail of the line relies on a very accurate throw, which is Hibbard's biggest weakness. Saying that the scrum will be stronger, but there are more lineouts than scrums.

Against France,

Charteris took 4 lineouts,
Lydiate took 1,
Faletau took 2
and Warburton took 7.

So 10/14 of the Welsh throws went to the backrow

I expect a few more will go to AWJ in the middle this week since he is calling - but Hibbard is perfectly capable of throwing to the back

yep i noticed that in the game but didn't have the stats s thanks for posting that. I think England's line out will present a much stiffer challenge and last week Lawes already had it sewn up. I believe Wales have already stated they intend to play in field bu ti reckon England will try and kick for territory all day and challenge our line out.

by sickofwendy Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:56 pm

Count yourself lucky vahaaimena ? isn't EQ

by BlueNote Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:57 pm

"Imagine these boards if England fielded Welsh players!"

Like the Vunipolas?

I remember Rupert Henry St John Barker Moon lining up at scrum half for Wales against Dewi Morris of Crickhowell for England. How did that happen?

by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:06 pm

bluenote wrote:I remember Rupert Henry St John Barker Moon lining up at scrum half for Wales against Dewi Morris of Crickhowell for England. How did that happen?

There are millions of people world wide that think we(brits/uk whatever) are mad for fielding separate sporting teams and when something like that happens . I can sort of understand there point...

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:39 pm

BlueNote wrote:"Imagine these boards if England fielded Welsh players!"

Like the Vunipolas?

I remember Rupert Henry St John Barker Moon lining up at scrum half for Wales against Dewi Morris of Crickhowell for England. How did that happen?

Since when are the Vuinipola's Welsh?

Half the Welsh squad where born in England, bad times.

by HammerofThunor Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:16 pm

The Vunipolas lived in Wales for a few years. Therefore they are Welsh. Have you not twigged on how it works yet?

Cuthbert born and raised in England, move to Wales at 18, Welsh mum = Welsh

Hartley born and raised in New Zealand, moved to England at 16, English mum = Kiwi

by Scrumpy Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:18 pm

South Wales would be empty if it wasn't for the English that moved there centuries ago.

by BlueNote Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:51 pm

Vunipolas grew up in Gwent. Should play for Wales.

Isn't it a grandparent with Cuthbert - I agree that's getting a bit tenuous, although if for some reason he always identified with that grandparent, maybe less so.

An awful lot of people in Britain have mixed heritage. Dean Richards is as Welsh as George North is English. What I find harder to stomach is people from NZ and SA who can't make it into their own sides or South Sea Islanders coming over and playing for the nation of their choice.

by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:08 pm

Ok we will give you both of them lumps for North back.

Deal?

by HammerofThunor Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:09 pm

The Vunipolas spent some of their youth in Wales and some of it in England. Mako was talking about going to see Wales play for someone and it was great but Billy was too young to remember it.

Also they weren't eligible for Wales after they moved away, as children.

by gregortree Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:30 am

tazfalklands wrote:Getting fed up of 1 or 2 Welsh fansquoting stats abot last years result, 3 match winning streak, SL losing every time so I thought I would look up some of my own. All care of wikipedia
Win Lose Draw record
England
90's
Rugby World Cup 11W, 6L, 0D
Five Nations 32W, 8L, 0D
Test Match 18W, 15L, 2D
00's
Rugby World Cup 12W, 2L, 0D
Six Nations 33W, 17L, 0D
Test Match 27W, 24L, 0D
10's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 1L, 0D
Six Nations 16W, 6L, 1D
Test Match 11W, 9L, 1D
10's 31 wins 19 losses 2 draws
164W, 88L, 4D
Wales
90's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 7L, 0D
Five Nations 12W, 27L, 1D
Test Match 30W, 15L, 0D
00's
Rugby World Cup 5W, 3L, 0D
Six Nations 23W, 24L, 2D
Test Match 27W, 32L, 1D
10's
Rugby World Cup 4W, 2L, 0D
Six Nations 16W, 7L, 0D u
Test Match 6W, 20L, 1D
10' 26Wins 29 losses 2 draws
127W, 137L, 5D

And Record against major opposition since 2010

England-Argentina 4W, 0L
Wales-Argentina 2W, 1L
England-Australia 3W, 2L
Wales-Australia 0W, 8L
England-France 3W, 3L
Wales-France 3W, 3L
England-Ireland 4W, 2L
Wales-Ireland 3W, 3L
England-Italy 4W, 0L
Wales-Italy 5W, 0L
England-New Zealand 1W, 2L
Wales-New Zealand 0W, 4L
England-Samoa 1W, 0L
Wales-Samoa 1W, 1L
England-Scotland 5W, 0L, 1D
Wales-Scotland 4W, 0L
England-S Africa 0W, 4L, 1D
Wales-S Africa 0W, 4L
England-Wales 3W, 3L

Clear to me that stats pretty much say that England are the better team. But that is not going to make a difference on Sunday

Thanks for looking it up Taz. I was pleasantly surprised, as even I had started to absorb Wales propaganda. But 3 GS in last 8 yrs is factual enough. But England have a better global record by some way. England need to learn to close out tight games as many L s were by the closest of margins.

by bedfordwelsh Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:34 am

Why do people get so wind up with the some of the garbage on these boards, when it comes to qualification and residency no one is above reproach we all do it and while the rules are as they are teams would be stupid not to take advantage of them

by gregortree Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:35 am

mystiroakey wrote:Ok we will give you both of them lumps for North back.

Deal?

I wouldn't Myster !
Anyway, more trivia. Glos boys Cuthbert and May played college rugby together at Hartpury College Glos.
Hug

Now they will face each other on Sunday at Twickenham. boxing

by gregortree Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:41 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Why do people get so wind up with the some of the garbage on these boards, when it comes to qualification and residency no one is above reproach we all do it and while the rules are as they are teams would be stupid not to take advantage of them

Bedford

the Anglo Welsh border is incredibly porous.
Totally pointless banging on about 'special' genetic differentiation.
Maybe was in the 19th century, but not in this mobile 21st century.

by jimmyinthewell68 Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:49 am

when cuthbert scored those two trys against England and how he celebrated doesn't seem English to me Very Happy

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