SA Tour: Probables v Possibles

Probables

Gethin
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ- Capt
CHarteris
Lydiate
Tipuric
Faletau or Ryan
Williams
Biggar
North
Doc
JD2
Cuthbert
Williams

Possibles
James
Owens
Lee/Jones
Ball
Davies/Evans
Lewis Evans
7. Shingler ?
Jones
Philipps
10. Tovey/Patchell/Priestland ?
Walker
S Williams
Hook
15.?

as we expect there are no welsh sides playing in May Gatland is proposing a warm up trial game.

This would be my selection, nothing new in the Probables apart from believing now is the time to cement Williams against top class opposition, I also believe priest land has had his opportunities and has squandered them; Biggar is the man to take the team forward so it is time to bring in a youngster with Hook also able to cover 10.

If AWJ is fit then he plays and his skipper IMO. If he or Faletau is rested then i think Ryan Jones is the perfect skipper for this tour.

I think Ball deserves a close look so it is an opportunity for Ianto and Davies to contend the fourth lock spot.

I want to see Walker back in the mix. Back up 15s or does hook cove this?

What other players deserve a look in the Possibles side?

Scratch beat me to it but the French/English wont be available for it.

Apologies if this has been done but cant see it anywhere. Gatland has anoounced that due to the fact no Region will be involved in the latter stages of Europe and possibly the Rabo play offs he is toying with the idea of a Probables v Possibles game before the tour to SA.

I do like the sound of this and its def a throw back to the old days where these games were common but could we put two teams of 23 out.

The English/French based players won't be available and neither will Warburton or Halfpenny. Lets for argument sake say that the Regions agreed to this lets see what sides we could put out, I have included players I am not sure about injury wise and suspension, also I have assumed that those involved in 6 Nations matchday squads are the probables.

So here goes:

Probables:

Jenkins
Hibbard
A Jones
AWJ
Ball
R Jones
Faletau
Tipuric

Webb
Biggar

Walker (is he fit)
JD
Sc Williams (is he fit)
Cuthbert

Li Williams

Rh Jones, S Lee, Owens, Evans (when is he free to play), Coombs, Rh Williams, Priestland, Amos

Possibles

Bevington
Phillips
Andrews
B Davies
King
L Evans
D Baker
Navidi
Rees
Tovey

K Phillips
C Allen
Beck
Prydie

D Evans

Rh Williams, Patchell J Williams

I know the sides would (I expect) be mixed up but I am struggling with forwards for the Possibles I guess there are the likes of Parry and Myhill at hooker Peers, Screech, I Jones, M Allen and Shingler to fill the 2nd/backrow slots but what about props?


MODS can you merge the two posts please.

Dont see any reason why Hook or Charteris could not be available (appart from injury).

Because its outside the IRB window and not an official test so why would Perpignan let them go?

Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Perpignan last game of the season will be on the 3rd of may. When is Wales tour starting?

Scratch wrote:Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Scratch,

Why would it affect Jenkins? Also it would/could Rhys Gill as I would like to see him involved. Not sure of the injuries to Walker, Sc Williams, Davies or O Williams or the suspension of Evans.

whocares wrote:Perpignan last game of the season will be on the 3rd of may. When is Wales tour starting?

Test 1 is June 14 though i believe there are plans to play a regional side the week before

You can assume Gatland will want a week in country prior to this game so i expect them to travel end of May.

whocares wrote:Perpignan last game of the season will be on the 3rd of may. When is Wales tour starting?

1st test Jun 14 this game would be played to end of May but again as its not official game clubs wouldn't have to release players.

I guess the WRU would compensate the Regions if it came off but would they do it to clubs outside of Wales?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Scratch wrote:Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Scratch,

Why would it affect Jenkins? Also it would/could Rhys Gill as I would like to see him involved.  Not sure of the injuries to Walker, Sc Williams, Davies or O Williams or the suspension of Evans.

My mistake.

So of the players left all are definite picks for the tour which gives the 3rd tier a great opportunity.

But the main question is to what extent will Gtaland mix youth and experience, clearly the 6 Nations has seen unprecedented benchings and i think he will continue doing this while keeping the experience on the bench.

Gethin
A Jones
AWJ
Philipps
Cuthbert

strike me as most at risk.

Is AWJ at risk? I don't see it myself, whilst he did have a quiet tournament for him I think he is stil ahead of his competitors.

The problem with A Jones is that he seems to be under pressure from a converted L/Head rather than the natural T/Head we all think should be pushing hi.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Is AWJ at risk?  I don't see it myself, whilst he did have a quiet tournament for him I think he is stil ahead of his competitors.

The problem with A Jones is that he seems to be under pressure from a converted L/Head rather than the natural T/Head we all think should be pushing hi.

Perhaps you are right but his 6 Nations was average at best and line out is weak.

Adam, well with his scrummaging power being diminished you have to ask what else he brings to the table.

Likewsie gethin, though still occasionally brilliant i think it i time to give James or a younger player an opportunity. Geth is an awesome impact sub.

Cuthbert…very quiet 6 Nations - almost anonymous so i really think Walker deserves a look assuming Williams is going to slot in at 15

Chances of seeing byrne?

If Byrne has a good season for us Dragons next year then I don't see why not, then again Rees been one of form 9s and he hasn't had sniff in.

There's nothing wrong with creating competition in any of the positions and I think its imperative that players feel they have competition.

For me James should now be our 1st choice L/Head and have said that for sometime, if it was a natural T/Head pushing A Jones then again great but like many I am bemused as to why Rh Jones is getting the shout ahead of Lee.

Cuthbert was quiet but then again so was North until the Scots game as we were pretty poor all round in attack, Cuthbert has a poachiers instinct and again I think sometimes he backs himself more than North does, both are still 1st choice I think but they need the likes of Walker, Dirksen (when does he qualify), Amos, Prydie pushing them.

If Liam Williams has a storming tour it will be very interesting come the AIs to see where Halfpenny fits back in and if he does at whose expense.

Dirksen qualified in January i believe. Harry Robsinson is another one i would like to see coming through.

Half will come back in bu ti agree if Biggar makes his kicks and Williams continues to offer that option in attack which we haven't seen since byrne then even Pence becomes a question.

It's interesting that there have been plenty of comments about such a long year for Welsh players playing last season, the Lions, into this season and fatigue being an issue. Then when there is going to be rest periods, more fixtures are proposed.

Scratch wrote:Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Pretty sure the most important players on that list (Charteris, Lydiate, Roberts and North) all have international release clauses written into their contracts. North certainly has, remember Saints having to release him for the autumn despite one of the games falling outside the window?

Why would release even be an issue? The summer tour is meant to be within the IRB window is it not?

I'm practically certain in a match press conference earlier this week, that Steve Tandy (Ospreys coach)said that with a summer of rehabilitation he would be ready for next season, so I doubt he will go on any tour never mind a trial match. I'm talking about Eli Walker here.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Scratch wrote:Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Pretty sure the most important players on that list (Charteris, Lydiate, Roberts and North) all have international release clauses written into their contracts. North certainly has, remember Saints having to release him for the autumn despite one of the games falling outside the window?

Why would release even be an issue? The summer tour is meant to be within the IRB window is it not?

availability for the probs/possibles game, season is over so tour not an issue

Gats is also considering Bradley Davies in the back row!

The tour shouldn't be an issue with regards to release but a trial match then thats another thing altogether, after all without any financial incentive would the Regions have to relaee players let alone clubs outside Wales?

Scratch wrote:Gats is also considering Bradley Davies in the back row!

Really? For the love of god why, lets not have another incident like when Jenkins put AWJ at 6.

Scratch wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Scratch wrote:Who does this affect

Gethin
Charteris
Lydiate
Philipps
Hook
Doc
James
North

These guys are all on the plane anyway
So Bevington gets a run out but against who?
Davies and Evans fighting for 4th lock spot
Lewis Evans v ?

Are Scott Williams and Eli Walker fit?

Pretty sure the most important players on that list (Charteris, Lydiate, Roberts and North) all have international release clauses written into their contracts. North certainly has, remember Saints having to release him for the autumn despite one of the games falling outside the window?

Why would release even be an issue? The summer tour is meant to be within the IRB window is it not?

availability for the probs/possibles game, season is over so tour not an issue

My mistake. Ignore then, I completely misinterpreted the thread

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Scratch wrote:Gats is also considering Bradley Davies in the back row!

Really?  For the love of god why, lets not have another incident like when Jenkins put AWJ at 6.

Size of Willem ALberts…with no Warbs that essentially means Tios will start i think, back row becomes unbalanced.

Sure we won't see it but i think in the absence of Warbs there is no chance Faletau will be rested, he is young anyway and apparently is 'changing psychically' (no more singing for him then)

Scratch, could this not have been posted on my SA tour thread? I mean, it would have brought it back on topic after you contributed to derailing it...

If Taulupe has his way he won't rest anyway, talking to friends with good inside knowledge on the Dragons Lyn Jones has a fight on his hands everytime he wants to rest him, he would play every game if he had his way.

We have other options out there for the bakrow without putting Davies there.

Lydiate has played 7 against Australia then there Tipuric and Navidi who are out and out 7s then there is Lewis Evans who as had played 7 for Dragons.

The Saint wrote:Scratch, could this not have been posted on my SA tour thread? I mean, it would have brought it back on topic after you contributed to derailing it...

  

let me know when you want your toys back!

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Taulupe has his way he won't rest anyway, talking to friends with good inside knowledge on the Dragons Lyn Jones has a fight on his hands everytime he wants to rest him, he would play every game if he had his way.

We have other options out there for the bakrow without putting Davies there.

Lydiate has played 7 against Australia then there Tipuric and Navidi who are out and out 7s then there is Lewis Evans who as had played 7 for Dragons.

I can see Evans getting a look in as we need a more physical 7 than Tips.

Tovey or the lad at Leicester as 2nd choice 10 and Davies at 9 should also get into one of these sides. Though i have no doubt RP will tour as i think Gatland favors him as an attacking 10 over Biggar.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Scratch wrote:Gats is also considering Bradley Davies in the back row!

Really?  For the love of god why, lets not have another incident like when Jenkins put AWJ at 6.

Actually that isn't abad idea….no but seriously i think we need a more heavyweight back row this tour

I have no doubt Priestland will tour so I gues it depends on how many players in each positon he takes.

I would imagine 3 No10s or at elast 2 recognised as 10s (Biggar and Priestland) then someone like Hook, Tovey or Patchell who can cover a few positions.

Ok

James, Gethin, Jones, Jones, Lee
Owens, Hibbard, hooker…Dacey?
Davies, Ball, AWJ, Charteris
Ryan, Lydiate, Faletau, Tipuric, Evans
Phillips, Webb, Williams but I want Davies
Biggar, Priestland, Patchell
Doc, Allen, JD2, S Williams
Hook, Cuthbert, North, Williams, Walker.

Likely 1st Test

James
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
Charteris
Lydiate
?  
Faletau
Philipps/Williams
Biggar
North
Doc
JD2
Cuthbert
Williams

Gethin
Owens
Jones
Ball
Ryan
Evans
Philips/Williams
Hook

Scratch wrote:Ok

James, Gethin, Jones, Jones, Lee
Owens, Hibbard, hooker…Dacey?
Davies, Ball, AWJ, Charteris
Ryan, Lydiate, Faletau, Tipuric, Evans
Phillips, Webb, Williams but I want Davies
Biggar, Priestland, Patchell
Doc, Allen, JD2, S Williams
Hook, Cuthbert, North, Williams, Walker.

Likely 1st Test

James
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
Charteris
Lydiate
?  
Faletau
Philipps/Williams
Biggar
North
Doc
JD2
Cuthbert
Williams

Gethin
Owens
Jones
Ball
Ryan
Evans
Philips/Williams
Hook

Lydiate can and has played 7 so you could put R Jones in at 6 but I think Tipuric will start there. I would imagine Ianto will tour if free from his ban as will Coombs and I would take Tovey over Patchell but that 1st test team not to far off mark other than we know Jenkins will start

Lydiate at 7…is he mobile enough, i have seen Ryan do it too and was impressed….. but when you look at the team there is nothing new really. Though by force elf circumstance we will have a new 7 and 15 option cemented for the autumn which can't be bad.

That said both Sam and Pence will walk back in IMO.

Lydiate got MOTM few season ago against Australia at 7 and he does play left and right with Metro so I think he could then again I would like to see Lewis Evans there.

You are right Warburton and Halfpenny will be back but I think whoever plays at 7 will only be keeping the shirt warm, Halfpenny as we have stated before could face a real fight if Williams has a big tour.

Then again competition for places is never a bad thing, just need to develop another No8.

Dan Baker?

Lydiate/Faletau/Coombs or Ryan would be a monster back row.

Scratch wrote:Dan Baker?

I will be honest and admit I haven't seen much of Baker so can't comment I would say the likes of Mrogan Allen and Ieuan Jones are No8s but what about Baker is he an 8 or bit of a mixture.

Also lets be honest I reckon Faletau could play 7 as well if we wanted him to.

Evans won't tour, Bedford. I posted a quote from Gatland on the SA thread, where he says a few 7s as options then mentions Bradley and King and no mention of Lewi Sevens.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Scratch wrote:Dan Baker?

I will be honest and admit I haven't seen much of Baker so can't comment I would say the likes of Mrogan Allen and Ieuan Jones are No8s but what about Baker is he an 8 or bit of a mixture.

Also lets be honest I reckon Faletau could play 7 as well if we wanted him to.

Baker debuted against Japan last year. Doing well at Opsreys…only 6ft 2 though.

Risca Rev wrote:Evans won't tour, Bedford. I posted a quote from Gatland on the SA thread, where he says a few 7s as options then mentions Bradley and King and no mention of Lewi Sevens.

Just found it Rev, very strange indeed and it does make me wonder what criteria Gatland and Co use in some cases.

Evans has been in great form for us this year and previous seasons he has had limited involvement with Welsh squad, he can play 6 or 7 and has covered 8 (I think) yet seems completely out of favour yet they talk about considering King and Davies FFS in the back row.

Scratch wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Scratch wrote:Dan Baker?

I will be honest and admit I haven't seen much of Baker so can't comment I would say the likes of Mrogan Allen and Ieuan Jones are No8s but what about Baker is he an 8 or bit of a mixture.

Also lets be honest I reckon Faletau could play 7 as well if we wanted him to.

Baker debuted against Japan last year. Doing well at Opsreys…only 6ft 2 though.

Is he considered as an 8 or bit of a utility?

Played once at 8 this year, has been on the bench. Is only 21 but rapid.

I really can't see this going ahead, I like the idea but too many players are injured or are complaining of being tired.

It's just Gatland talking to the media again and the whole thing snowballing.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Lydiate got MOTM few season ago against Australia at 7 and he does play left and right with Metro so I think he could then again I would like to see Lewis Evans there.

You are right Warburton and Halfpenny will be back but I think whoever plays at 7 will only be keeping the shirt warm, Halfpenny as we have stated before could face a real fight if Williams has a big tour.

Then again competition for places is never a bad thing, just need to develop another No8.

Didn't Lydiate play at 7 against Fiji and at 8 against Aus? I don't think he was MOTM in either game, but Giteau definitely was in the latter (if it's the one I'm thinking of).

What about Gareth Delve? I think he's still only 31ish. I heard he's going to play in Japan. Is he a viable option leading up to the world cup?

Would be a very interesting game if it went ahead and no doubt entertaining but in another recent interviews Gatland has been saying the players are tired. If he really believes this surely this game is the last thing he wants, especially if anyone picks up an injury? Can't see if coming to pass.

It will not happen, once again Gatland has opened his mouth in an interview without thinking.

With a Possibles team, will they go for people from the squad we know all about like Paul James, Ken Owens who will definitely be on tour, or use the game as a chance to look at some up and coming players?

Playing SA, you really want the players who can match the physical intensity they bring. To me, Jake Ball is a better version of Bradley Davies from that point of view. But the back row has to be mobile, even AWJ was a mistake, Brad or Jake Ball would be a big mistake. Rhodri Jones has that physicality, but against SA props, he really could get found out in the scrum big time. Gareth Davies is another physically very strong player I'd want to look at.

Owen Williams is a good call for the possibles.

SA strength... scrum and lineout.

Weakness.... Scotland showed they can be bullied on the floor, Frans Louw aside. AUS often have done so in the past.

The pack is very very heavy too... many have been saying it for a while. Run this bok team to the ground. 940kg of pack can't keep the pace up for long.

Can Lydiate play 8? Who else bar Tipuric can play openside.

You need Lydiate for his tackling, he will earn overtime in SA... but I'd also be prone to play 2 opensides against SA to keep them bogged down in the rucks.

Going back to OP I would be testing combinations especially in the backrow.

fa, I would have played two open-sides against SA in the AIs, but instead Lydiate was brought back in after a recent injury. He looked semi-pro in comparison, but is playing well right now. Lydiate has played 7 and 8 before I believe, not so sure I'd put him there against SA opposite guys like Louw and Burger. Openside options behind Tips are untested, probables vs possibles and the game against Kings might show us where we are with that. We'll also have Charteris and Ball available at lock so I can't SA getting a great advantage there as was the case in November.