England Probables vs Possibles

So with the world cup coming up I imagine there is a chance England may have another possibles vs probables match. Assuming all our players are fit and available (including Manu) I have compiled two teams that might face each other.

Probables vs Possibles

15 M.Brown vs A.Goode
14 A.Watson vs S.Rokodeguni
13 J.Joseph vs L.Burrell
12 M.Tuilagi vs H.Slade
11 J.Nowell vs J.May
10 G.Ford vs D.Cipriani
09 B.Youngs vs R.Wigglesworth

08 B.Vunipola vs B.Morgan
07 C.Robshaw vs C.Clark
06 J.Haskell vs T.Wood
05 C.Lawes vs G.Parling
04 J.Launchbury vs D.Attwood
03 D.Cole vs D.Wilson
02 D.Hartley vs T.Youngs
01 J.Marler vs M.Vunipola

16 R.Webber vs J.George
17 A.Corbisiero vs A.Waller
18 K.Brookes vs H.Thomas
19 G.Kruis vs G.Kitchener
20 M.Kvesic vs W.Fraser
21 D.Care vs L.Dickson
22 O.Farrell vs S.Myler
23 B.Foden vs E.Daly

Potential extra subs...

26 M.Itoje vs D.Day
24 T.Croft r vs S.Burgess
25 N.Easter vs T.Waldrom
26 B.Twelvetrees vs S.Hill
27 M.Yarde vs M.Banahan
28 C.Ashton vs C.Wade
30 K.Eastmond vs C.Pennell

The obviously missing one is Barritt who is pretty more a sure thing for the squad if fit.

He might not be liked but I would think Goode is a probable.

Despite peoples thoughts...he's a good player and more importantly for a WC he's versatile. Can cover 10, centre and FB should the need arise.

Id be amazed if Will Fraser is anywhere near...he just seems so injury prone to be remotely considered.

Wigglesworth is a probable aswell.

GF

He's not a probable starter though, which is what these games are about.

Geordiefalcon agree.

Goode is a funny one. Caused quite a few problems for Exeter on the weekend and has been consistently strong this season as he is almost every season at 15 for Saracens.

Was made the scapegoat for the loss to Ireland this season but wasn't as bad as made out.

Think Wood is a probable. Tuilagi is not even a possible at the moment.

Yeah swap Barritt and Manu

Surely the bench players for the probables should be starting for the possibles? If we're looking to see who should be our starters

Oh wait, I've misread .. ignore me

Such a game would make picking the team easier. You could just go with who is left standing...

I'd swap Haskell and Wood and if both are fit there is little to choose between Billy V and Morgan, which means 12 would be the most controversial position in the probable selection. I suspect Barritt will be given another shot there, as with Ford and JJ inside and outside, a bit of solidity wouldn't go amiss and we would not be relying on BB to do anything magic with ball in hand. Just do the basics of trucking up the bad ball and the dummy runs to pin the inside defender as Ford looks to link with the more elusive outside backs.

As for the balance of the selection, that looks like first v second choices in the forwards, but not at halfback, where I would have Care and Farrell well ahead of Wiggy and Cipriani if fit and on form.

Also, I'd expect 12-13 of 12trees and Manu T for the Possibles, with May and Goode as two of the back 3. Not convinced that Roko will get another look in - didn't impress in his one AI, but was unlucky to then get injured and then have Watson and Nowell impress in the 6Ns. I suspect given club form and how England are trying to play now that Ashton is probably back on the radar.

Thought both Croft and Foden were definitely out of the RWC with their current injuries.

dummy_half wrote:...

As for the balance of the selection, that looks like first v second choices in the forwards, but not at halfback, where I would have Care and Farrell well ahead of Wiggy and Cipriani if fit and on form.
....

Yes but they are not on form. Farrell hasn't done enough to convince he should go and is running out of time to do so, so there is only his past reputation that puts him in the frame. Farrell circa 2014 6N would be a real asset. I think new model Cips is a useful back up for now.

I don't know where Care is at. He was brilliant in the 2014 6N.

Have they had one of these games in recent years? The reason I ask is that Gatland was ridiculed on this board when we had ours last year.

Oh if England decide to do it it will be just a sensible decision, totally different rules apply. When in fact, it is the only way Stewie can whittle down the ridiculous amount of talent he has at his disposal. Either way, an England team will come 2nd, again.

Gwlad wrote:Oh if England decide to do it it will be just a sensible decision, totally different rules apply. When in fact, it is the only way Stewie can whittle down the ridiculous amount of talent he has at his disposal. Either way, an England team will come 2nd, again.

And somehow the Welsh will be moral victors whatever right

bedfordwelsh wrote:Have they had one of these games in recent years?  The reason I ask is that Gatland was ridiculed on this board when we had ours last year.

Not officially, and they will not now either.

They will however have two full squads training - so something similar will happen in camp, just not without the hoopla and press attendance. Must be almost 30 years since England last had an official Probs v Poss - and it was a farce. Probs scared of getting injured, Poss all fired up, selectors panic.

Official games like this tend to be a lose/lose situation.

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Oh if England decide to do it it will be just a sensible decision, totally different rules apply. When in fact, it is the only way Stewie can whittle down the ridiculous amount of talent he has at his disposal. Either way, an England team will come 2nd, again.

And somehow the Welsh will be moral victors whatever right

Always best to ignore toddlers when they throw a tantrum.

LondonTiger wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Have they had one of these games in recent years?  The reason I ask is that Gatland was ridiculed on this board when we had ours last year.

Not officially, and they will not now either.

They will however have two full squads training - so something similar will happen in camp, just not without the hoopla and press attendance. Must be almost 30 years since England last had an official Probs v Poss - and it was a farce. Probs scared of getting injured, Poss all fired up, selectors panic.

Official games like this tend to be a lose/lose situation.

LT,

Thanks for the info thought it had been awhile, not realise it was that long ago though. I guess these games (of sorts) go on all the time in training but in all honesty ours last year was pretty full on with tackles flying in from both sides but I get the point about injuries.

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Oh if England decide to do it it will be just a sensible decision, totally different rules apply. When in fact, it is the only way Stewie can whittle down the ridiculous amount of talent he has at his disposal. Either way, an England team will come 2nd, again.

And somehow the Welsh will be moral victors whatever right

Does "we put 50points on the best defence in the 6 Nations" sound familiar? Yeah the best defence ships 50+ points mind

And the Irish think they have problems with Welsh wums.

Ah just ignore them 7.5

They'll be no where to be seen when they fail to get out of their group....

No 7&1/2 wrote:And the Irish think they have problems with Welsh wums.

I know right. We can't be on the same level as the condescending Irish can we? We can't actually believe our team can beat theirs in the 6 Nations and in RWC quarter finals. We'll be labelled arrogant bar-stewards! Let us all shed a tear for the hard done-by Irish. They had to live through the terror of BOD sitting out the final Lions test which was won in record-breaking manner using Welsh anti-rugby tactics (did I mention they were coached by Sauron?). But to be fair they haven't had it as bad as the Scots, who had to give up McShingler due to IRB protocol... those damned WELSH ruining rugby by adhering to the laws! They're the worst people on earth. Don't worry jocks, the English got your backs. Nobody knows pain like them, after the Welsh purchased Steve Walsh two years in a row...the final year culminating in a 30-3 drubbing and dashing their grand slam hopes. It's no wonder those Welsh are vilified so much eh.

What relevance does that have with an England Probables v Possibles thread?

Why would you accuse someone of being a WUM and bring the Irish into it when that person points out the truth though.

Stop wumming. It's sad.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah just ignore them 7.5

They'll be no where to be seen when they fail to get out of their group....

GF,

I agree ignore them but oh I hope that last statement comes back to bite u on

The Saint wrote:Why would you accuse someone of being a WUM and bring the Irish into it when that person points out the truth though.

Well if someone insists on coming on to a genuine thread to deliberately rubbish whats said...which like it or not is invariably a few Welsh members...then you will get called a WUM.

You know the crack Saint...you play it all the time. People just get a bit bored with it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah just ignore them 7.5

They'll be no where to be seen when they fail to get out of their group....

GF,

I agree ignore them but oh I hope that last statement comes back to bite u on

It would be a nightmare....

But its difficult to chop down these wums without putting yourself out there a bit

The Saint wrote:

I know right. We can't be on the same level as the condescending Irish can we? We can't actually believe our team can beat theirs in the 6 Nations and in RWC quarter finals. We'll be labelled arrogant bar-stewards! Let us all shed a tear for the hard done-by Irish. They had to live through the terror of BOD sitting out the final Lions test which was won in record-breaking manner using Welsh anti-rugby tactics (did I mention they were coached by Sauron?). But to be fair they haven't had it as bad as the Scots, who had to give up McShingler due to IRB protocol... those damned WELSH ruining rugby by adhering to the laws! They're the worst people on earth. Don't worry jocks, the English got your backs. Nobody knows pain like them, after the Welsh purchased Steve Walsh two years in a row...the final year culminating in a 30-3 drubbing and dashing their grand slam hopes. It's no wonder those Welsh are vilified so much eh.

To paraphrase ol' Clint:.... reckon we're right popular.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah just ignore them 7.5

They'll be no where to be seen when they fail to get out of their group....

GF,

I agree ignore them but oh I hope that last statement comes back to bite u on

It  would be a nightmare....

But its difficult to chop down these wums without putting yourself out there a bit

GF,

Just saved this post ready for said occasion

GeordieFalcon wrote:

The Saint wrote:Why would you accuse someone of being a WUM and bring the Irish into it when that person points out the truth though.

Well if someone insists on coming on to a genuine thread to deliberately rubbish whats said...which like it or not is invariably a few Welsh members...then you will get called a WUM.

You know the crack Saint...you play it all the time. People just get a bit bored with it.

So I take it you're referring to the numerous times that Wales get blamed for what one or two posters on here said? Or how about that time Wales were worse than Nazi Germany on here for pointing out the laws when Scotland tried to poach Shingler? Just one of many examples if I'm honest. Yet when it's aimed back at you guys you get all precious.

BTW - you lot were talking your team up on the final weekend, claiming you'd put over 50 points on the apparent best defence (but proved otherwise) in the 6 Nations, it was as if you were trying to claim a moral victory. When someone accuses the welsh of claiming moral victories for no apparent reason then I don't see the harm in pointing this out.

NIce....cheers mate...

Boy who cried wolf Saint.

The Saint wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

The Saint wrote:Why would you accuse someone of being a WUM and bring the Irish into it when that person points out the truth though.

Well if someone insists on coming on to a genuine thread to deliberately rubbish whats said...which like it or not is invariably a few Welsh members...then you will get called a WUM.

You know the crack Saint...you play it all the time. People just get a bit bored with it.

So I take it you're referring to the numerous times that Wales get blamed for what one or two posters on here said? Or how about that time Wales were worse than Nazi Germany on here for pointing out the laws when Scotland tried to poach Shingler? Just one of many examples if I'm honest. Yet when it's aimed back at you guys you get all precious.

BTW - you lot were talking your team up on the final weekend, claiming you'd put over 50 points on the apparent best defence (but proved otherwise) in the 6 Nations, it was as if you were trying to claim a moral victory. When someone accuses the welsh of claiming moral victories for no apparent reason then I don't see the harm in pointing this out.

Don't remember that.

And I think you'll find that most English fans on here also don't want poaching. Peopl like Nathan Hughes cos concern....

We get "precious" because that accusation is thrown at the likes of Manu - who has been here since he was about 13/14 etc etc.

I thought we did put over 50 points on the team in the final weekend? 55 - 35 wasn't it?

Yeah you did. Congratulations on your moral victory

Fantastic. Reasonable thread rapidly degenerating because someone wums, others respond then Saint, aka 606's mr Angry leaps in because he feels someone has demeaned Wales. He should be angry with the Wummer for triggering this rubbish in the first place

No 7&1/2 wrote:And the Irish think they have problems with Welsh wums.

That is the thing. We all know which posters are constantly being antagonistic and trying to ruin these forums, and where they are from. I await the welsh victim brigade to report this, but it isn't controversial, it is pretty clear who is trying to cause trouble. The same threads are being ruined by the same people, every time. It is also harder to engage with the good number of mature/decent welsh posters on here, as any thread involving irish/english/whoever and welsh will involve the same typical WUMs trying to cause trouble.

lostinwales wrote:Fantastic. Reasonable thread rapidly degenerating because someone wums, others respond then Saint, aka 606's mr Angry leaps in because he feels someone has demeaned Wales. He should be angry with the Wummer for triggering this rubbish in the first place

If you read the comment before this one I'm posting, you'll see how THE WELSH are all at fault yet again. I forgot WUMs was only a wales thing, I do apologise.

That isn't what I'm saying and I know there are WUMs from all over on these forums, but recently there has been a clear pattern.. involving the same posters.. saying the same things to wind people up.. the common denominator being they happen to be from Wales.

Like I said, play the victim card if you want, but if you want to be mature about it and try to improve this place, why not try to allow reasonable and sensible debate without trying your very best to derail it? That might be a good start.

This is the last thing I am adding to this thread, as it is about English rugby and it deserves a chance to allow proper discussion instead of this nonsense.

lostinwales wrote:

dummy_half wrote:...

As for the balance of the selection, that looks like first v second choices in the forwards, but not at halfback, where I would have Care and Farrell well ahead of Wiggy and Cipriani if fit and on form.
....

Yes but they are not on form. Farrell hasn't done enough to convince he should go and is running out of time to do so, so there is only his past reputation that puts him in the frame. Farrell circa 2014 6N would be a real asset. I think new model Cips is a useful back up for now.

I don't know where Care is at. He was brilliant in the 2014 6N.

Agree completely with that.

Corbisiero and Tuilagi are in similar positions to each other too - both injury prone players who are rated highly because of performances in the past.

Tuilagi's legend grows the longer he is out. Unfortunately for Corbisiero, his reputation has been taking a beating after getting stuffed by Francis recently and seemingly losing the scrum battle to Petrus Du Plessis before Waller spared Saints' blushes at scrum time.

It's nice to hark back to the former glory of Tuilagi's powerhouse showing vs the ABs but in the mean time Burrell last year was the darling at 13, this year Joseph the darling at 13.

Surprisingly Tuilagi hasn't actually been missing that much because two players filled his boots well.

As for Corbisiero, again he hasn't been missed - Marler and Mako have done just fine.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:That isn't what I'm saying and I know there are WUMs from all over on these forums, but recently there has been a clear pattern.. involving the same posters.. saying the same things to wind people up.. the common denominator being they happen to be from Wales.

Like I said, play the victim card if you want, but if you want to be mature about it and try to improve this place, why not try to allow reasonable and sensible debate without trying your very best to derail it? That might be a good start.

This is the last thing I am adding to this thread, as it is about English rugby and it deserves a chance to allow proper discussion instead of this nonsense.

You're right there are WUMs from all over, and it's usually a minority of posters. The same posters. So why is it only a common denominator that they happen to be from Wales when they're from all over? I really don't understand your thinking there... And I know myself and Chunky are likely considered WUMs around you precious Irish as nobody is allowed to disagree with you on the club forums despite providing factual evidence. Talk about acting like you own the place... So crying over what Chunky writes, calling him a WUM because you disagree, and then telling me to stop playing the victim card is perhaps a bit rich?

Saint this was an England rugby thread. Wales played no part in this discussion at all (other than a reference to Wales probable vs possibles games from BedfordWelsh) until Gwlad got involved. 

Lots of people WUM from time to time, sometimes they say stuff which is funny which is a good thing. There are a hardcore bunch who are repeat offenders and who can be very tiresome. The worst is of course GG in his many guises, but most of the next names on the list are unfortunately Welsh.

lostinwales wrote:Saint this was an England rugby thread. Wales played no part in this discussion at all (other than a reference to Wales probable vs possibles games from BedfordWelsh) until Gwlad got involved. 

Lots of people WUM from time to time, sometimes they say stuff which is funny which is a good thing. There are a hardcore bunch who are repeat offenders and who can be very tiresome. The worst is of course GG in his many guises, but most of the next names on the list are unfortunately Welsh.

I can only think of Gwlad for the Wales list tbh .

Well this is pretty random  

EXCLUSIVE: Manu Tuilagi will miss the World Cup after pleading guilty to assaulting a police officer. @TimesSport

Just seen that about Tuilagi, I wonder if it has been covered up by the tigers?

A huge loss for England, a fit Tuilagi and JJ could win a WC.
I bet some outsiders like eastmond and slade are delighted now !

Barritt and Tuilagi was probably still your best midfield... I guess now you'll HAVE to settle for Barritt and JJ....

GLove39 wrote:Well this is pretty random  

EXCLUSIVE: Manu Tuilagi will miss the World Cup after pleading guilty to assaulting a police officer. @TimesSport

???

That came out of nowhere.

The Saint wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Saint this was an England rugby thread. Wales played no part in this discussion at all (other than a reference to Wales probable vs possibles games from BedfordWelsh) until Gwlad got involved. 

Lots of people WUM from time to time, sometimes they say stuff which is funny which is a good thing. There are a hardcore bunch who are repeat offenders and who can be very tiresome. The worst is of course GG in his many guises, but most of the next names on the list are unfortunately Welsh.

I can only think of Gwlad for the Wales list tbh .

Rainboworrier?

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/tuilagi-will-not-picked-for-rugby-world-cup-squad/

idiot.

I've got to say I think it's a good thing for Lancaster and England to take that stance. You can't avoid these people being seen as role models; they didn't ask for it, but it goes along with representing your country.

Good judgement from RFU, Lancaster and Cockerill. You can't tolerate that sort of behaviour, and he has previous.

Undoubtedly a blow for England, but Joseph is a better 13 and there was always the question mark over whether Tuilagi would have worked out at 12. He was certainly not a winger.