We can still stay up, says Ryan.

  

This has to be an early attempt at an April fools?

Sorry Worcester fans (I'm sure there are some out there) but you have no chance with this Joker in charge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26713390

Of course they can. 5 games left aren't there? So 25 points on offer and 12 points behind. Remember Leeds a few years ago? Playing Saints on the last day and needed a bonus point win and Falcons (or was it someone else) to get nothing against Bath (?). Leeds scored about 3 tries in the first 20 mins. They ended up losing but it can all change very quickly. Next week will be massive.

In 5 of those last games they have two incredibly tough ones - Bath and Saracens away.

Looks unlikely. If Worcester had turned one or two of their gut wrenching losses into wins then it could be different.

HammerofThunor wrote: Of course they can. 5 games left aren't there? So 25 points on offer and 12 points behind. Remember Leeds a few years ago? Playing Saints on the last day and needed a bonus point win and Falcons (or was it someone else) to get nothing against Bath (?). Leeds scored about 3 tries in the first 20 mins. They ended up losing but it can all change very quickly. Next week will be massive.

That's just ridiculous optimism. Who do you think you're talking about? Tigers?

Scrumpy:

I absolutely agree. We can't stay up. Our remaining games are too tough. I do not think we are playing the worst rugby in the league, as our oh so close losses to Tigers, Quins and now Wasps testify.
Our season was lost early on when we lost to LI and Falcons - we were a disorganised rabble at that stage.

However, I disagree that DR is not the right man to take us forward.
He seems to have a good vision. You cannot expect him to tell his players to give up at any time. Even when we are mathematically down I will expect him to be telling the players to play for pride.

Aside from the last 20 mins against Glos at the weekend we have played the worst rugby by a country mile. Its our early season points that have gave us the lead.

Its looking increasingly like Worcester will go down. And if they do then the Falcons will have been very lucky as we've been seriously bad.

Hopefully if we do stay up, we'll be a bit more competitive and pleasing on the eye to watch.

Mathematically they can stay up. Very unlikely, but not impossible.

Who does Scrumpy support?

  (Barf)

And that's relevant because?

It's always relevant to know from what height somebody sneers down on the poor asswholes at the bottom who because of a lack of money or players, or both, are clinging by their nails to the trapdoor of a Promotion/Relegation league.

I just have a thing against Promotion/Relegation Leagues.... and those who promote them as the better way to do rugby.  

I do trust though that you don't support one of the bottom three or four sides who are in 'contention' for relegation?

We have flirted with relegation in the past!

Who could forget Elvis's try!

I feel for Worcester I really do, but not Ryan how he got the job in the first place is beyond me, They should have stuck by Richard Hill and I bet they wouldn't be in this position with 0 wins.

But thanks for you valued input Fly!

To be fair Secret Fly, my team was relegated 2 years ago...and second bottom this season...hopefully be better next season though.

But i still like the relegation system. You have to be competitive and if not you'll go down.

Of course its possibly a disadvantage with regards to the HC (or the New European Cup) when looking at how the RABO teams manage their teams.

Wel said Geordie.

We have to keep relegation and promotion otherwise teams that get it right like Exeter would never come through.

But Geordie.. In/Out Leagues don't allow bottom sides time enough to settle in any League to interest good enough players or better sponsors.

Going up and down is constraint enough in actual rugby playing terms but the actual business end is also contrained in how a side must always try to compete on a 'level playing field' with top sides, who are long since settled into a league they won't be leaving anytime soon, given the players and sponsors their positions command.

Bottom sides have to fight twice as hard to stay at the bottom as top sides have to fight to stay at the top.  Non-meritocratic although marketed as such.

Exeter    !

At the end of the day if you are good enough you'll stay up.

Scrumpy wrote:We have flirted with relegation in the past!

Who could forget Elvis's try!

I feel for Worcester I really do, but not Ryan how he got the job in the first place is beyond me, They should have stuck by Richard Hill and I bet they wouldn't be in this position with 0 wins.

But thanks for you valued input Fly!  

It is valued input... so thanks for the thanks And thanks for clarifying the sneer that to an outsider looks like a boot in the hole of an already depressed side. Glad to finally realise it's a personal attack on a single humanbeing.

Maybe you dont get time Secret, however this is where you need to plan well. Exeter are an impressive example.

We have played poor , but very structured rugby. Dean has a plan and to be honest its working. Not attractive but its (probably) kept us up. Next season we will be more appealling to the eyes etc.

Teams have to play their strongest sides most of the tiem, thus better for fans etc.

And yes it maybe does affect our participation in the HC...but this could be reversed and say the RABO is a poor league because teams "manage" their players solely based on the HC.

Its a double edged sword secret.

Not everyone has a right to HC rugby in the Jeff and thats how it should be, it has to be earned. 

Scrumpy wrote:Not everyone has a right to HC rugby in the Jeff and thats how it should be, it has to be earned. 

I thought they all did...and thats why they never field their full strength sides in the RABO...they've all qualified anyway??   

Well lets get away from the schoolyard stuff (although I'm part of the pro-relegation camp) and get back to the OP.

Dean is quite right, Wuss CAN stay up, however it's looking increasingly unlikely. Relegation is not the end of the world (although the media soon forget you), some of the best clubs have dropped out of the Premiership to storm back up again.

And of course, some haven't.  

It would be interesting though to have promotion and relegation in a 2 year cycle and the team with the least total points across those two seasons goes up, it'd allow for a bit more stability and give them a proper preseason and transfer season to compete with everyone else.

Do people who have some experience of watching both leagues think that Wuss would comfortably beat the likes of Bristol, Leeds or London Welsh at the moment? I am not wumming, just interested in what the perception of the gap between the lower placed Jeff teams and the highest placed Championship teams is. I think Exeter have shown how quickly you can make up any gap.

George Carlin wrote:Do people who have some experience of watching both leagues think that Wuss would comfortably beat the likes of Bristol, Leeds or London Welsh at the moment? I am not wumming, just interested in what the perception of the gap between the lower placed Jeff teams and the highest placed Championship teams is. I think Exeter have shown how quickly you can make up any gap.

Although in theory there isn't much of a gap between the bottom AP clubs and the top Championship sides, in reality, there is. Take Newcastle for example. Okay, they aren't playing brilliantly this season, but then nor were they when they got relegated either. The following season, they lost one match and were promoted straight away. Wuss are struggling this year, but they've been unlucky. They've pushed some big teams very close and are only losing by a few points here and there. I would expect them to finish in the top four of the Championship with ease should they be (when they are) relegated. Exeter are a rare example of a club coming up from the Championship and surviving.

Worcester?

Teams that come up from the Championship tend to stay up on their first season. I think Leeds a few years back were the last to come up and go straight back down. Several sides have been improved by relegation (notably Saints and Quins) and I think Worcester will be as well.

Hold on tell a lie, LW came up and went straight back down. They weren't helped by a hefty points deduction that took the wind out of their sails though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Teams that come up from the Championship tend to stay up on their first season. I think Leeds a few years back were the last to come up and go straight back down. Several sides have been improved by relegation (notably Saints and Quins) and I think Worcester will be as well.

I should have said that Exeter are a rare example of a team coming up and staying up. Quins and Saints have done it obviously, but aside of these three, it isn't the norm really.

Worcester (again), Jimps?

Quins and Saints were slightly different in that it took a heck of a lot to get us down into the championship, and just changing a few things within the clubs made a lot of difference.

Most teams coming up have it the other way, they need to do so much just to scrape through that first year.

Honestly I don't mind seeing Wuss go, cruel I know but I can't remember them ever playing particularly enjoyable rugby or ever getting very high in the table, they always seem to be lurking at the bottom just doing enough.

Which isnt good considering they're over the salary cap...sorry i mean AT the salary cap..     

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Worcester (again), Jimps?

I did say teams coming up and staying up was rare and not the norm, but didn't say it didn't happen.

Alright, Worcester too.

Happy now?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Which isnt good considering they're over the salary cap...sorry i mean AT the salary cap..     

Worcester Geordie?? Pennell can't cost that much surely...

Take Newcastle for example. Okay, they aren't playing brilliantly this season, but then nor were they when they got relegated either. The following season, they lost one match and were promoted straight away.

From an outside perspective it might look like Newcastle sailed through the Championship season, but from an inside point of view there were a few close calls during the season and the play-offs are just a nightmare, we were the favourites but it only takes one loose game, a couple of dodgy deciscions and an interception pass and you are staring at Championship rugby for another year.

Not good for the nerves.

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Which isnt good considering they're over the salary cap...sorry i mean AT the salary cap..     

Worcester Geordie?? Pennell can't cost that much surely...

Ah just being sarcy mate after Deans comment on the fans forum night and Worcester fans subsequent OVER reaction   

TrailApe wrote:

Take Newcastle for example. Okay, they aren't playing brilliantly this season, but then nor were they when they got relegated either. The following season, they lost one match and were promoted straight away.

From an outside perspective it might look like Newcastle sailed through the Championship season, but from an inside point of view there were a few close calls during the season and the play-offs are just a nightmare, we were the favourites but it only takes one loose game, a couple of dodgy deciscions and an interception pass and you are staring at Championship rugby for another year.

Not good for the nerves.

Well, I wish Tigers could go through a year with a few close calls, the occasional loose game, a few dodgy decisions and an interception pass or two, winning the play-offs having only lost one game all season... if they did that, they'd be champions every year wouldn't they?

PER-LEASE! Even if Newcastle had had an average-ish season, they'd have made the play-offs. Some of their points difference winning margins were emabrassing for the oppsition.

Agree Trailape,

We also had a little slump in the last quarter of the season aswell...the play offs were not pleasant.

And they should be scrapped. Two teams up two down. Then top team goes up automatically and the next 4 can have a play off if they insist on having it.

The Championship seems to get more and more competitive each year.

Also I believe the gap is closing in quality between the AP and the Championship with more championship players making the transition each year.

Unfortunately if Worcester do go down it will be a real dogfight to come back up.

Maybe Ryan was right?   

No hes not....

9 points is still a decent margin. I struggle to see Falcons getting much from the visit of Sarries, but could get LBPs from the other 3 fixtures - or maybe even sneak 1 win (is that a pig flying by? )

Warriors probably need to win 3 of there remaining fixtures - unless they suddenly start getting TBPs. Visits to Bath and Sarries will be problematical.

If it all comes down to the last game, Falcons host Chiefs, while Warriors host Glaws.

Whilst it is mathematically possible that Warriors will stay up, in reality, they wont., the task is too great. although I do think Worcester have been quite unlucky on a number of occasions this year, they've been close to getting some big results.

Agree with that Jimpy. Could have been possible if Worcester had won a couple of the ones they narrowly lost.

Playing a lock at 13 was a good call though wasn't it... Don't think anyone expected that!

I think we are pretty much certain to go down.
We have had some agonisingly close losses to some big teams, and so can count ourselves unlucky. However, you make your own luck. Although I do not think we have been the worst team in the last few weeks, we were abysmal in the first half of the season.
This year I think Falcons will stay up with a shockingly low points total, because as usual our lot have been worse (over the whole season). Never will it have been easier to stay up.
Halfway through the season I could not see how we would get back up again (in fact I thought we may possibly fall through the next trapdoor too), but things have started to turn around and I think our coaching team are starting to gel.
My only concern is that we will start next season with a vastly different team, but then easier to bed them in in the Championship than in the Prem.

Ryan was never going to say "we haven't any chance of staying up, might as well quit now", what message would that show to the squad.

nathan wrote:Ryan was never going to say "we haven't any chance of staying up, might as well quit now", what message would that show to the squad.

You know that, I know that, but look who wrote the original post and all will become clear.

PER-LEASE! Even if Newcastle had had an average-ish season, they'd have made the play-offs. Some of their points difference winning margins were emabrassing for the oppsition.

Jimpy, you had to be there to realise how fragile it all became.


From my point of view, I think the play-off system for promotion should be scrapped. I agree with relegation/promotion, but having a play off system brings in some very unusual dynamics.

You can, quite easily win every game in the normal season by cricket scores and then due to some freakish circumstances not get promoted. This is not a hyperthetical situation, it has happened - Bristol I think?

There is also the matter of dual registered players that in my opinion brings in an unwelcome variable. Some of the Championship sides, due to close proximity of Premiership teams, have potential access to some game breaking players. They don't get to use these players in every game, but come the play offs (which are after the premiership season finishes) they will be able to field up to 3 (I think) premiership quality players.

I think this has got to stop - for a number of reasons, but basically its unfair that some clubs can roll in a few imports and others can't just because of geographical happenstance.


So for me, yes promotion/relegation, but this should depend on the standings at the end of the regular season.

Trailape I agree with that.

How will the new world of BT money and the presumed riches of the new Euro competition affect the Championship clubs and the relegation candidate Premiership clubs?
Are the relegated teams going to get larger parachute payments in line with the increased funding and won't that then make the Championship less comptetitive?
Whilst the horse has left the stable on all this, I wonder if the influx of money, whilst making the players a lot better paid is going to drive rugby in the same direction as football with a top five/six that never changes and indeed consolidates as the money keeps coming in whilst the bottom half clubs are only concerned about staying in the Premiership and the newly promoted Championship sides are condemned to a season in the sun and then back down as they can't risk everything on staying in the Premiership in terms of wages/contracts - are we going to see newly promoted clubs taking lots of players on one year or pay as you play contracts to protect themselves from the financial conseqences of relegation?