Adonis Stevenson Jumps Ship

First topic message reminder :

Stevenson has jumped ship from HBO to Showtime - all but torpedoing a potential showdown with Kovalev. Looks like a Hopkins fight is on the horizon (God help us).

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Rodney

Those belts are not meaningless, if they were they wouldn't exist, stop living in the past and live in the present for a change, in todays environment a title belt means a lot.

Kovalev just like Matthyse before him is rated highly because he's a power puncher but for technical ability and know how he's a long long way behind Hopkins. Stevenson could rebuild to a degree from a knockout loss but recovering from a potential schooling by a 49 year old isn't quite so easy. Just like Pavlik, Pascal and Cloud, the fans don't forget that they got schooled by an old man but we do forget their other losses to an extent.

Belts mean little. Stevenson is the boss - the man who beat the man.

They mean little to you Haz but they mean a lot to the fighters, promoters and the fans who pay to see these fights, if they were so lightly regarded nobody would bother with them.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:They mean little to you Haz but they mean a lot to the fighters, promoters and the fans who pay to see these fights, if they were so lightly regarded nobody would bother with them.

It's time fans wised up. If consumers stopped talking about them the money men would stop saddling every goddam fight with an ABC.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Rodney

Those belts are not meaningless, if they were they wouldn't exist, stop living in the past and live in the present for a change, in todays environment a title belt means a lot.

Kovalev just like Matthyse before him is rated highly because he's a power puncher but for technical ability and know how he's a long long way behind Hopkins. Stevenson could rebuild to a degree from a knockout loss but recovering from a potential schooling by a 49 year old isn't quite so easy. Just like Pavlik, Pascal and Cloud, the fans don't forget that they got schooled by an old man but we do forget their other losses to an extent.

They do mean little, for instance all respect to Stuart Hall a local lad who I admire but not for one second is he a world champion , Hopkins has a belt that's all it is a belt. As Haz said Stevenson is the man and the sooner fans changed their mindset to this the better we can agree on some clarity in each division.

Cheers Rodders

I would do exactly the same thing if I were Stevenson - take the money and run. Hes never going to be an ATG, so maximizing the money he makes before getting out makes sense. Being potentially decapitated by Kovalev doesnt make sense when there is a softer option.

Im not saying Im happy with that as a fan, but I cant see how you can criticize Stevenson for it. Dont hate the player, hate the game (as I believe the kids are saying these days).

Hit the nail on the head there Joey, his career could be finished by Kovalev. He'll make more money taking a fight with Hopkins, and it's no where near as risky. Yes it's a duck, but it's a business decision that 9 out of 10 boxers would take these days.

Well said Hampo...and a move all these old boxers would do given the same freedom of choice..

hampo171 wrote:Hit the nail on the head there Joey, his career could be finished by Kovalev. He'll make more money taking a fight with Hopkins, and it's no where near as risky. Yes it's a duck, but it's a business decision that 9 out of 10 boxers would take these days.

Yep, because losing to Hopkins wasn't the end of the world for Trinidad, Tarver, Wright, Pavlik and Cloud......oh....hang about.....

Who poses the bigger risk Haz? Kovalev or Hopkins?

Bigger risk of losing is probably Kovalev but the bigger risk to his reputation and future career is Hopkins. You can make excuses for getting knocked out but what excuse is there for losing to a 49 year old.

True, but the money he'd make and at this stage of his career makes it a very smart business decision, by the time they fight Hopkins will likely be 50, and Stevenson 37. People always throw out the term risk vs reward, the Hopkins fight is less risk for a bigger reward.

hampo171 wrote:Who poses the bigger risk Haz? Kovalev or Hopkins?

The Kovalev fight would have been a straight shoot-out. Either could have won. The risk is he gets lamped. That risk isn't there with Hopkins but -- and this is much more detrimental in my view -- Hopkins ruins fighters. He destroys them mentally.

Stevenson can use the business excuse, and from the outset it is a fair enough one. But just about every source and interview on this issue seems to indicate that HBO were willing to pay him as handsomely as Showtime were going to for his next two fights (Fonfara in a few weeks and then another one in Autumn), but only on the condition that the second fight was against Kovalev - and only at that point did Stevenson decide to take up Showtime's offer. He refused to commit to that fight, as he's refused to commit to it before when pressed on the matter.

He could have conceivably made just as much money with HBO as he will with Showtime, it seems to me (and I suspect his percentage of the actual purse would be higher against Kovalev than it will against Bernard), but the difference is that his shift with HBO would have included the Kovalev fight, which he can swerve if he goes with Showtime.

To me, it looks like he's not necessarily making more money with Showtime, if these reports are correct - just the same amount of money, but having to work less hard to get it. Now that still does make sense in terms of business, but I believe that business ain't the be all and end all here. As I said before, I was never convinced that Stevenson fancied the Kovalev assignment, and this story does little to make me change my mind.

Appreciate that the word 'duck' gets rolled out too easily these days, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still happen now and then. There is a financial element to it, sure, but I don't think Stevenson emerges from this looking particularly great, personally. If people remember him as ducking the fight we all wanted at 175 (and let's be frank, absolutely nobody wants to see Adonis against Hopkins more than they want the Kovalev fight, even Stevenson's biggest chair leaders), then I won't feel particularly inclined to defend his honour.

Just how I see it.

What about Hopkins fans of which I am one, I want to see him face Stevenson and couldn't care less about Kovalev he holds a belt I don't take seriously having beaten a champion I never took seriously. I want to see Hopkins unify the WBC, WBA and IBF titles, you have to factor in more than those who appreciate Kovalev.

The Canadians will watch Stevenson fight anybody just like they did with Bute and just like they did with Pascal against Hopkins. Stevenson defending against Hopkins in Montreal is the biggest fight in the division at this moment.

Pascal-Stevenson?

Can't say I've really seen many people talking up Stevenson-Hopkins as the big fight at 175 in recent months, Hammersmith. From my experience the fight on everyone's lips at Light-Heavy was Kovalev-Stevenson, hence why Stevenson has been asked about it so many times publicly. Hopkins is still a legitimate fight for any Light-Heavyweight out there right now, of course, but I doubt that a fight between him and Adonis is going to create the kind of excitement and buzz amongst boxing fans and insiders as Stevenson-Kovalev would have done.

Two no-nonsense bangers in the best form of their careers meeting head on. Does more for me than one of those fast-handed bangers meeting a 49 year old who was never known for making his fights much of a spectacle to begin with, never mind now, and who peaked many moons ago. But we're all different, I guess. Whatever the weather, we're stuck with Stevenson against Hopkins (or Shumenov at a push), so hopefully HBO and Main Events can work some magic to make Kovalev-Ward. Hell, I'd even settle for Kovalev-Pascal.

That's a fair point Haz, would also be a big fight in Canada.

The thing is Chris, HBO would have been pushing the Kovalev fight because it was one they could show, were Hopkins fighting on HBO they would have been mentioning that one too. The ridiculousness of boxing now means that promoters and TV channels focus on their side of the divide. In a perfect world the winner of Hopkins/Shumenov faces the winner of Stevenson/Kovalev but it doesn't work like that any more.

Dear god how sick do I get of reading on here that certain fights aren't happening as they don't make business sense. Since when did the sport start being run by Accountants. I wonder when fighters are considering their options how long into the discussion is it before the subject of what the fans actually want gets raised. There may be dissenting voices, but I believe they are in the minority but Stevenson Kovalev is the fight at 175 right now, is the first light heavy fight in some time that has genuinely got the juices flowing and now looks pretty unlikely.

Am not going to be overly dramatic and start predicting boxings demise but stuff like this really does the sport serious harm. I know to some extent it has always happened but it does not serve for it to become a too regular occurance.

Its never been easier to duck fights. Fans practically encourage it these days.

I'd love to see the best fight..But If you can get good money for less risk then any idiot would do it !.

Let's face it these guys are retired a long time and the fans won't give a toss when they've gone.

I completely understand his decision career-wise. But, if you want to call yourself the 'champion' of a sport then avoiding the best challenges is not the way to do it.

I stated a little while back that Hopkins Stevenson was being lined up. It has been for a while. I said the TV situation would be resolved soon enough.

we tend to jump on the back of foreign fighters, only after they have beaten British fighters, and theres a lot of people here on the Kovalev bandwagon.

Kovalev is very exciting, and steadily putting together a fearsome reputation, and getting more popular all the time in America. But hes not even a headline fighter, even as world champion just yet. Anybody who thinks the biggest fight at LH doesnt include Hopkins in it, is quite frankly deluded.

Hopkins is breaking records, which makes him easier than ever to sell. his popularity is at its highest for a long time. Stevenson is also a very big draw in Canada. USA vs Canada is always going to be easier to sell than most fights. Stevenson makes perfect sense financially, also they should be rated 1 and 2 in the division up until either stevenson or Kovalev can beat hopkins.

Hopkins fancies this one too. Hes put a lot of time into trying to get this fight. Hes obviously seen something in Stevenson he believes he can exploit.

So says Hoppo's 'mate' and v2's biggest Executioner fan-boy......

TopHat24/7 wrote:So says Hoppo's 'mate' and v2's biggest Executioner fan-boy......

agreed, yes!

anything i had to say that you disagreed with though??

or did you just come on here 'to laugh at people' again?

the fights happening. best fight for them both and their fans. unfortunately for Kovalev he will have to wait his turn

Yea the Hopkins vs Jones 2 fight was a massive success.

As I recall, people on here sat up and noticed Kovalev when he flattened Campillo (who should have been champion after the Cloud fiasco). Not when he beat Cleverly.

Sorry lance but a claim that any fight involving Hopkins is best for the fans seems a stretch for me. I have nothing but admiration for his ability to continue doing what he does, but easy on the eye he ain't.

The idea that Stevenson being in with an ageing spoiler rather than a young heavy hitter in good form is something we should be thankful for is beyond my comprehension.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Yea the Hopkins vs Jones 2 fight was a massive success.

As I recall, people on here sat up and noticed Kovalev when he flattened Campillo (who should have been champion after the Cloud fiasco). Not when he beat Cleverly.

hopkins has been to Canada and beaten Pascal since the Jones fiasco Dee. Also beaten his own record for oldest ever world champion since. I think a lot of boxing fans have noticed Kovalev, and he certanly deserves a unification fight soon if not now. But hes not as big of a draw as either hopkins or stevenson at the moment. hopkins isnt going to be around too much longer either.

maybe stevenson has bottled it, and taken on hopkins because its the easier fight. hopefully hopkins beats him, because hes not afraid of kovalev

Rowley wrote:Sorry lance but a claim that any fight involving Hopkins is best for the fans seems a stretch for me. I have nothing but admiration for his ability to continue doing what he does, but easy on the eye he ain't.

The idea that Stevenson being in with an ageing spoiler rather than a young heavy hitter in good form is something we should be thankful for is beyond my comprehension.

not the best for the fans rowley, i agree. but its a bigger fight, as far more people know hopkins than they do kovalev. I would rather see kovalev beat stevenson, then fight hopkins. but it was stevenson who was willing to play ball with hopkins. after the pascal fights, stevenson hopkins will be huge in canada

Lance wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:So says Hoppo's 'mate' and v2's biggest Executioner fan-boy......

agreed, yes!

anything i had to say that you disagreed with though??

or did you just come on here 'to laugh at people' again?

the fights happening. best fight for them both and their fans. unfortunately for Kovalev he will have to wait his turn

Yes, I disagree with your massive over-sell of the interest in Hoppo. Hardcore fans are a minority, casual fans are where the money is. And nobody casual (and not even many hardcore) want to watch one of the most butt-ugly dreary boring fighters of the last couple of decades spoil his way to another UD.

Do find myself agreeing with you top hat. I genuinely struggle to imagine Hopkins sells that well. Not the most scientific approach but struggle to think of a fight that would make me part with my hard earned to watch him.

fair enough Toppy. but stevenson is cetainly the most lucrative fight out there for hopkins to make. they have both made a name for themselves in canada, and its a genuine unifcation fight.

i dont want to patronise anybody whos disappointed that kovalev isnt getting to fight stevenson. i can see why they would be. im giving my opinion as a hopkins fan, and i wasnt trying to disguise it either. but not too long ago i heard people on here saying hopkins was scared of stevenson and thats why he took on murat.

surely some respect to hopkins if he goes to canada to take on stevenson? even if you are disappointed in stevensons choices

Stevens may be the most lucrative for Hoppo, but that isn't the discussion here. We're not talking about old man Hoppo's life choices, we are talking about Stevenson - and he comes out of this badly.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Stevens may be the most lucrative for Hoppo, but that isn't the discussion here. We're not talking about old man Hoppo's life choices, we are talking about Stevenson - and he comes out of this badly.

I think on the face of it he does. but nothing wrong with a hopkins 'fanboy' giving his opinion on how things are unfolding for hopkins on a thread in which he has been discussed regularly is there?   

I said hopkins would make the stevenson fight, and i was told the TV situation wouldnt allow it, and that hopkins would be too scared....

maybe stevenson will try to make the kovalev fight afterwards. time is on their side with that fight, as opposed to getting hopkins to canada. who knows

maybe Stevenson will try make a fight he's already had offered to him on a plate but has clearly avoided? Yeh, that's happening.....

hes had a better offer from hopkins...

Has he now?

Because the evidence disputes that.

Same money, he just choose the route that didn't involve having to fight Kov (the fight everyone actually wants to see, not more Hoppo crud).

A Hopkins vs Stevenson fight is better for boxing than Kovalev vs Stevenson.....

I've heard some humdingers in my time but this is right up there with "Plaster paris Handwraps save lives: by D4"

TopHat24/7 wrote:Has he now?

Because the evidence disputes that.

Same money, he just choose the route that didn't involve having to fight Kov (the fight everyone actually wants to see, not more Hoppo crud).

Think you're misinterpreting it a bit Toppy, he's getting the same money for fighting Fonfara on Showtime than he would have done on HBO but he would earn more from a potential Hopkins fight than from a Kovalev fight.

Do you know for certain he will get more money for facing Hopkins ?

As a fan it's a terrible move , because the thought of watching Hopkins feign, hold and spoil again is nauseating , let's hope Shumenov derails this and puts him too sleep.

Cheers Rodders

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:A Hopkins vs Stevenson fight is better for boxing than Kovalev vs Stevenson.....

I've heard some humdingers in my time but this is right up there with "Plaster paris Handwraps save lives: by D4"

who did you hear this from? talk about drama queen

Don't really care about their bank balances. It has gotten to the stage where fighters rash talk by quoting stats. I do not care.

I do care about
A) Fighters recoised as the divisional #1 fighting their most potent challenges, because otherwise what's the point of being champ?
B) Exciting fights. You've got to be some kind uber hipster to prefer Hopkins/Adonis to Kovalev/Adonis. Great style matchup. Both bangers of the highest order, one's a come forward aggressor, one's a counter puncher.

Can we all remember that this is the Kovalev who beat Boone by the skin of his teeth, and hair of his nuts*? Beat Cleverly and the guy who lost to Grachev, and you're suddenly god.... then again... beat Adama and Stevens, and you're a titan.

*Yes I know Stevenson lost to Boone, but he clubbed him in the rematch.

No one's called him god have they?

I'll call him the most potent current challenger on the best run of form of anybody other than Stevenson himself as well as being the most interesting style matchup for Stevenson.

Look he probably is the most potent challenger, but winner of the Hopkins fight now owns 2/4 titles... Are you to tell me there's absolutely no attraction in that?

Personally I couldn't care less about titles. Might not be everyone's view but it is mine.

If you've taken a title from Shumenov then I don't see that being valuable as taking an undefeated record from Kovalev.

Funny enough - I'm not to bothered about unbeaten records. Way boxing works, you've likely needed a judge with a rather trained eye along the way in any case.

Well it's not so much the unbeaten factor as how he's gone about it, it's just that that's what he'd actually be taking from him. The fighter is important bit.

Anyway, it's the best fight, I'm not his manager so I don't care one jot how much money he makes, I just know I won't pay to see him fight Hopkins if he was fighting in my living room but would to see him face Kovalev and think he stands a fair chance of winning.

That's where i'm different JBW, i'd pay to see Stevenson face the master but not overly bothered by him fighting Kovalev, then again i'm not a fan of crude sluggers they come down with a bang sooner or later.

I don't think he is crude. Great balance and timing.

Don't see anything worth watching in a Hopkins fight at this stage, it's only through the lenience of ref's to his subtle (or blatant) bending (snapping) of the rules that sees him through. I guess it's a subjective thing though.