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Cleverly Leaves Warren

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Post by hazharrison Thu 27 Mar 2014, 6:34 am

Jumps ship to Hearn. Warren claims he's still under contract. Legal battle ensues.....

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Post by joeyjojo618 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 7:38 am

Source? I cant find anything.

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Post by Valero's Conscience Thu 27 Mar 2014, 7:53 am

Can't blame him. Warren doesn't seem to have the ability to put on more than 1 or 2 big shows a year unlike Hearn.

If Chisora left Warren he would literally have no one.

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Post by rob-glos Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:07 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/26759701

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:35 am

Whoa!!
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Post by hampo17 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:47 am

Mentioned this was being talked about a few weeks ago, Cleverly linking up with Matchroom seems the most obvious choice.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:29 am

#blameeddie

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Post by joeyjojo618 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:42 am

Thanks rob.

God knows what evil Eddie is going to do next. Put Clev into a title fight? Get him a career high payday? Hes despicable and we should all hate him.

Am I doing it right Strongback?

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:05 am

Rematch with Karpency?
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Post by Strongback Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:45 am

Eddie demonstrates again that contracts might as well be written on toilet paper as far as he's concerned.

The day will come when another promoter poaches Hearn's fighters, I look forward to his reaction.

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Post by Rowley Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:47 am

Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 10:52 am

Yeh, because Warren is such a saint in that department!! laughing

Steal your fighters money, then when they successfully sue you just collapse your company and not had a penny back Laugh

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Post by Strongback Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:26 am

Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear. Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent. In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:27 am

Pahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahaha

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:29 am

Strongback wrote:Eddie demonstrates again that contracts might as well be written on toilet paper as far as he's concerned.  

The day will come when another promoter poaches Hearn's fighters, I look forward to his reaction.

Didn't Warren poach Derry Matthews and Tom Stalker?

His reaction wasn't really that bad. And Matthews was in some cracking fights up until that point on Sky
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Post by rob-glos Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:04 pm

Tickets just gone on sale with Clev's mug all over them....

Still no official press release though.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:15 pm

Meant to be a presser on about now....

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Post by KingMonkey Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:46 pm

*Sets Sky+ for show including*;

Selby vs TBA
Rees vs TBA
Clev vs TBA

Cannot wait!

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:47 pm

TBA has his hands full that night.
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Post by superflyweight Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:50 pm

Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent.  In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



Or as is more likely back on planet Earth, the contracts have break options which can be exercised by either party in certain circumstances and/or at certain times provided that the party exercising such option compensates the other party.

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Post by Boxtthis Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:55 pm

Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent.  In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



God forbid that someone be less-than-fair in a business dealing. That never happens! Especially with boxing promoters.

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Post by Rodney Thu 27 Mar 2014, 1:24 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent.  In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



Or as is more likely back on planet Earth, the contracts have break options which can be exercised by either party in certain circumstances and/or at certain times provided that the party exercising such option compensates the other party.  

Stop showing off.
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Post by DavidBlunkettsuppercut Thu 27 Mar 2014, 1:29 pm

KingMonkey wrote:*Sets Sky+ for show including*;

Selby vs TBA
Rees vs TBA
Clev vs TBA Traffic Warden

Cannot wait!

Fixed that for you  thumbsup 
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 27 Mar 2014, 1:37 pm

Poor old Frank...........He's left with nothing........

Just the overseas fights..........

As for Cleverly..Kovo shows he's not much of a fighter....

If Hearn lost him Cleverly would be small cheese......Big loss for Frank though..

Lawsuit won't get anywhere and Frank should be grateful !!........Cleverly stayed loyal longer than most..

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 27 Mar 2014, 1:56 pm

To be fair Cleverly vs Bellew will probably do alright on Sky compared to the numbers Cleverly would get if he fought the Karpency's on Boxnation,.

Its a good move and hopefully give Cleverly that kick up the rear he needs.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu 27 Mar 2014, 6:16 pm

Nothing wrong with this at all, if there's a loophole then Cleverley and Hearn are entitled to exploit it. Strongy is getting very boring with his comments now, they don't need saying because any one of us could pre-empt his posts.

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Post by Strongback Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:30 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent.  In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



Or as is more likely back on planet Earth, the contracts have break options which can be exercised by either party in certain circumstances and/or at certain times provided that the party exercising such option compensates the other party.  


Objection........pure speculation.


My experience of employment contracts is that European law gives every individual the right to work regardless of contract. A bit like the Bosman rule.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:33 pm

That's where your very wrong Strongy, the Bosman rule does not relate to an existing contract and sporting contracts work differently to a normal employment contract. Unless certain criteria are met as outlined in the contract a footballer or even a boxer cannot change employers as and when they want, they have to be bought out of it by either themselves or a third party.

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:43 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Poor old Frank...........He's left with nothing........

Just the overseas fights..........

As for Cleverly..Kovo shows he's not much of a fighter....

If Hearn lost him Cleverly would be small cheese......Big loss for Frank though..

Lawsuit won't get anywhere and Frank should be grateful !!........Cleverly stayed loyal longer than most..

I've never rated Cleverly, but depending on what Kovalev goes on to do I don't think that loss hurts him too much. Losing to a guy who's becoming something of an uncrowned champion among fans at 175 isn't that much of a blow.

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Post by Strongback Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's where your very wrong Strongy, the Bosman rule does not relate to an existing contract and sporting contracts work differently to a normal employment contract. Unless certain criteria are met as outlined in the contract a footballer or even a boxer cannot change employers as and when they want, they have to be bought out of it by either themselves or a third party.


Are you inferring Hearn is buying Warren fighters out of their contracts?


The reference to Bosman is in relation to clubs not being able to stop a player moving to another club in the EU when their playing contract is complete.  Clubs can't retain players not under contract for similar reason to standard employment contracts. I left a job and was put on garden leave for 6 months.  I showed a solicitor the contract and he said it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Everybody has a right to work in the EU. Boxers as well.  

Boxing contracts based on recent experience are easily side stepped.

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Post by Elpondo Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:04 pm

Cleverly joins so that Matchroom have a stronger Welsh lineup for their Cardiff shows which Selby will headline. Also makes the Bellew fight a certainty.

As a TV punter though it doesn't improve the scene, because Boxnation have lost a headline act which you'd expect means less British shows and less sponsorship for the channel. From a purely TV viewing position I'd like to see more promotors with an equal number of stars rather than a monopoly, which we basically have now. Who has Warren got left? Chisora-Billy Joe- Gavin - Butler, how long before 3 of them turn over, and who could blame them.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu 27 Mar 2014, 9:30 pm

Strongback wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's where your very wrong Strongy, the Bosman rule does not relate to an existing contract and sporting contracts work differently to a normal employment contract. Unless certain criteria are met as outlined in the contract a footballer or even a boxer cannot change employers as and when they want, they have to be bought out of it by either themselves or a third party.


Are you inferring Hearn is buying Warren fighters out of their contracts?


The reference to Bosman is in relation to clubs not being able to stop a player moving to another club in the EU when their playing contract is complete.  Clubs can't retain players not under contract for similar reason to standard employment contracts. I left a job and was put on garden leave for 6 months.  I showed a solicitor the contract and he said it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Everybody has a right to work in the EU. Boxers as well.  

Boxing contracts based on recent experience are easily side stepped.

I'm not inferring that at all, i'm pointing out that a boxer will potentially have clauses in his contract which can allow him to change promotional teams, a footballer cannot leave his current club when under contract without the say so of his club. Not withstanding the Webster ruling which is far from simple and incurs huge fees and long drawn out legal disputes regarding said compensation.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Fri 28 Mar 2014, 9:30 am

Strongback wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:Has he been successfully sued yet strongy? Would assume if he kept breaching legally enforceable contracts he would have been.

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  Finding a loophole to get out of a contract surely flies in the face of the traditional manager/promoter model where a promoter invests a lot of money in developing a talent.  In this case the fighter walks away because he got beaten once in a title fight. That's not cricket is it?



Or as is more likely back on planet Earth, the contracts have break options which can be exercised by either party in certain circumstances and/or at certain times provided that the party exercising such option compensates the other party.  


Objection........pure speculation.


My experience of employment contracts is that European law gives every individual the right to work regardless of contract. A bit like the Bosman rule.

And now you're lecturing an actual practising lawyer, on matters of contract law.

Full descent to w@nker status complete.

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Post by Rowley Fri 28 Mar 2014, 10:25 am

Strongback wrote:

Maybe the contracts don't stand up to detailed legal scrutiny but there intention is clear.  

You'll have to forgive me here as I don't have any legal qualifications but is the whole idea of a contract not to formalise an agreement between one or more parties in the eyes of the law, and to ensure all the parties adhere to what they have agreed to do, with a view that if one of the parties does not the other can seek financial restitution through the legal system. Surely a contract that does not stand up to legal scrutiny is not a contract and is little more than a bit of paper with some words on.

Are you arguing that after 30 odd years of operating on one of the most cut throat and litigious industries out there Frank Warren does not know how to draft up what would appear to be a fairly basic promoter/fighter contract? This seems unlikely to me, or is what you're arguing that Eddie Hearn is so whip smart he can find ways to ride roughshod over perfectly valid contracts and pretty much ignore the law. Have to say if this is the case it hardly fits with your previous characterisation of him as a blundering chancer.

What I suspect you're arguing is that in boxing contracts are rarely enforced or adhered to. If this is indeed your argument one would have to ask why you would expect Eddie to be the one person expected to adhere to contracts in an industry where nobody else does. Does seem you are asking Eddie to play the game by a different set of rules to everybody else, rules that were established long before he started in the game it should be added.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 28 Mar 2014, 11:00 am

Contracts mean very little these days......as Strongy knows..

I imagine If someone "broke" contract to move to Warren from Hearn.....Strongy wouldn't be as strong in his beliefs...

But maybe I'm doing him an injustice.....

Certainly needs to relax.............Like Pops always told me "What is the point of worrying about something you can't do anything about"..

Sound advice....

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Post by Steffan Fri 28 Mar 2014, 12:54 pm

When this move is over and Clev unifies at Cruiserweight...a lot of folks are gonna owe him an engraved apology

And he's gonna owe Booth a big favour...when it's over

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Post by superflyweight Fri 28 Mar 2014, 1:02 pm

Employment law/Bosman is entirely irrelevant in this case.

Warren doesn't employ his fighters and he doesn't pay them. The fighters are essentially self-employed and they appoint Warren to provide promotional services on their behalf. The EU employment directives would have absolutely no relevance to the contract.

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Post by Strongback Fri 28 Mar 2014, 1:17 pm

In some of these cases Warren was also the manager and would have had control of the fighter. The manager is on a percentage but this means little in the early developments of a fighter. That is why the manager pays things like advances, retainers and wages.

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Post by superflyweight Fri 28 Mar 2014, 1:26 pm

Doesn't matter if he is managing a fighter, he still wouldn't be the fighter's employer. Again, the fighter would be appointing him to perform management services on the fighter's behalf and the arrangement would be covered by a management contract and not a contract of employment.

He won't be paying them "wages" in the traditional sense of that word. He'll be making payments in the form of advances to them on the assumption that those will be clawed back when the fighter starts earning and there will be provision in the contract for that.

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Post by Bebop Fri 28 Mar 2014, 1:29 pm

You make it sound like Warren has been hard done by here? Ok he has lost a boxer to his biggest rival, but don't tell me he hasn't already made money off the back of Clev? Warren is king of milking boxers for every penny he make out of them.


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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri 28 Mar 2014, 2:00 pm

Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

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Post by Strongback Fri 28 Mar 2014, 2:39 pm

superflyweight wrote:Doesn't matter if he is managing a fighter, he still wouldn't be the fighter's employer.  Again, the fighter would be appointing him to perform management services on the fighter's behalf and the arrangement would be covered by a management contract and not a contract of employment.  

He won't be paying them "wages" in the traditional sense of that word.  He'll be making payments in the form of advances to them on the assumption that those will be clawed back when the fighter starts earning and there will be provision in the contract for that.    


So no fighter was ever paid wages "on the books"........interesting assumption.

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Post by Rowley Fri 28 Mar 2014, 2:48 pm

So what are you actually accusing Eddie of here strongy? I am confused.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:04 pm

If your car breaks down tonight Strongy on a Country road and you see a raven circling..

Stay in the car...Mate !!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:18 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

Haha seriously, PMSL has never been a more apt acronym. Strongy has literally no knowledge or understanding of what he's talking about and is trying to tell an ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER what the law is. Haven't laughed so hard in ages. laughing

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Post by Strongback Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:24 pm

Rowley wrote:So what are you actually accusing Eddie of here strongy? I am confused.


He tapped up Cleverly.


This is what Warren said when Stephen Smith jumped the fence:

“Mr. Warren will defend his rights as both the Manager and Promoter of Stephen Smith and a complaint has already been lodged at the British Boxing Board of Control and a letter sent to his solicitors,” a rebuttal statement read.

“Other parties, who we are aware have induced Mr. Smith to breach his contract and in doing so have tortuously interfered with Mr Warren’s rights, will also be the subject of action through the BBBofC and the Courts.”



Ricky Byrnes allegedly owes Warren £160,000. Tony Bellew paid Warren off. Barry Hearn is giving Frank a nice little kick in the bollox. What comes around goes around.


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Post by Strongback Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:26 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
AlexHuckerby wrote:Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

Haha seriously, PMSL has never been a more apt acronym.  Strongy has literally no knowledge or understanding of what he's talking about and is trying to tell an ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER what the law is.  Haven't laughed so hard in ages. laughing


Trying adding to the debate. All noise and no content with you.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:27 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER

Only in Scotland though.

He only mediates between public floggings and beheadings.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Rowley Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:30 pm

Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:So what are you actually accusing Eddie of here strongy? I am confused.


He tapped up Cleverly.


This is what Warren said when Stephen Smith jumped the fence:

“Mr. Warren will defend his rights as both the Manager and Promoter of Stephen Smith and a complaint has already been lodged at the British Boxing Board of Control and a letter sent to his solicitors,” a rebuttal statement read.

“Other parties, who we are aware have induced Mr. Smith to breach his contract and in doing so have tortuously interfered with Mr Warren’s rights, will also be the subject of action through the BBBofC and the Courts.”



Ricky Byrnes allegedly owes Warren £160,000.   Tony Bellew paid Warren off.  Barry Hearn is giving Frank a nice little kick in the bollox. What comes around goes around.


As I said earlier if he has breached a legal contract between Clev and Warren he will be sued and will lose. However based on his practices thus far and instances where he has been accused of similar the chances of this seem remote, to everyone other than you of course.

Rowley
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Cleverly Leaves Warren Empty Re: Cleverly Leaves Warren

Post by TopHat24/7 Fri 28 Mar 2014, 3:31 pm

Strongback wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AlexHuckerby wrote:Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

Haha seriously, PMSL has never been a more apt acronym.  Strongy has literally no knowledge or understanding of what he's talking about and is trying to tell an ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER what the law is.  Haven't laughed so hard in ages. laughing


Trying adding to the debate.  All noise and no content with you.

What, because you are adding anything....??

You're not, your just finding new delusional vehicles for your bile.

You're full of sh!t, basically, and getting made to look an idiot. Hence I'm just sitting back and laughing at you.

#blameeddie

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Cleverly Leaves Warren Empty Re: Cleverly Leaves Warren

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