2014 county championship discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

A place to discuss all the happening's of the 2014 county championship!

A bit of news Chris Jordan shall not play in Sussex's opener, been told to rest by the ECB

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Shelsey I'm enjoying the twitter updates!

Do you think Robson is ready for test cricket? And Finn?

[NickisBHAFC]

Finn is the classic bowler who starts of well this time of the year, but when the pitches get drier and flatter he tends to struggle.

[Shelsey93]

Finn could play Test cricket this summer and do okay. However, I think he'd just be the same bowler from a year or so back who is in and out of the side because he isn't quite consistent enough to hold down a place. I really think he'd benefit from a year just being left alone, something I expand on in this piece - http://deepextracover.com/2014/04/13/threatening-finn-must-not-be-rushed-back-by-england/. He still ought to be the next leader of England's attack even if Jordan is fast making up ground in that contest.

When Robson made runs in Australia I thought people were getting ahead of themselves by nominating him for England this summer. However, the case is now pretty much sealed (one of the leading run scorers in Div 1 last year, 2 100s in Australia with EPP, 3 100s in Sri Lanka with England Lions, 100 in friendly v Hants, unbeaten 100 today). At the highest level he might find that his technique gets a good working over but that is true of most players. Mentally he'll be fine. At almost 25 and with a good head on his shoulders he is more mature than his baby-faced looks suggest.

Morgan is tricky. He made a decent fist of Test cricket the first time round and could do decently again. However, he doesn't play much first-class cricket and hasn't done particularly well when he has. There is bound to be a clamour to bring him in to 'replace KP' but I think there are more deserving options personally and that there is no need for a player pigeon-holed as 'aggressive'. Bell can score quickly, as can Root down the order, and there are Stokes and Prior too.

[skyeman]

Massive Durham supporter and so proud of last season  but i feel even though they got a big score this time {weak Northants} they will struggle for runs this time round.

Although, last season they were not too big on scores, the bowling got them back into it and on three occasions they snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Lost a few of our players though due to the restrictions. Staying in Div 1 would be great this time.

Got a holiday home in Berwick-upon-Tweed so hope to get down there a few times.

[JDizzle]

Taylor played nicely, and felt he was unjustly given out lbw for 62.

The MAN trying to keep Taylor down again. Unbelievable.

[Hoggy_Bear]

Brilliant fight back by the Bears. Obviously the pitch seems to have flattened out a lot since the first innings but, even so, a score of 300-350 will take some getting in the 4th innings and will give Warks a good chance of sneaking a win, (of course, the lead could be even higher).

[Hoggy_Bear]

Me and my big mouth   

[Guest]

eventually we were bowled out for 425! Cook making a magnificent 181!  Foster with a nice 55* towards the end. Derby currently 40-0

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Pleased to see Spriegel doing well for Northants, falling only just short of a century. After a poor season last year he needs to grab all opportunities.

[NickisBHAFC]

230 runs for Sussex to win, only Sussex can screw this up!!!

Ed Joyce batting superbly well again!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Finn amongst the wickets again, three so far as Middlesex are looking likely winners against Notts

[skyeman]

Kumar Sangakkara has confirmed he will represent Durham for two to three Division One matches of the County Championship in preparation for Sri Lanka's tour of England.


Two tons would do nicely 

[guildfordbat]

Pleased to see Spriegel doing well for Northants, falling only just short of a century. After a poor season last year he needs to grab all opportunities.

Seconded.   

[NickisBHAFC]

Nice to see Craig Kieswetter get some runs today, he's another lad i want to see have a good season.

[Shelsey93]

The third day at Lord's was, as they say at the golf, moving day. Middlesex inched rather than blasted their way towards a winning position thanks to a very sensible century from John Simpson and a fine post-tea spell from Steven Finn. A late partnership between Riki Wessels and Chris Read took the gloss off somewhat but Middx should win tomorrow providing the Wessels/ Read partnership doesn't go really big. Even should Notts, currently 71 ahead with five wickets in hand, add another hundred Middx would be left with a simple-looking chase of 170 in two sessions. The pitch was probably at its best yesterday - a few kept low today - but there is nothing for the spinners and Middx should feel confident chasing if they don't have to score at a particularly advanced lick.

Close of play piece with John Simpson - http://deepextracover.com/2014/04/15/unsung-simpson-should-not-be-forgotten-as-test-prospects-take-the-plaudits-at-hq/

[guildfordbat]

Hi Shelsey - thanks for the latest report.

Simpson can certainly bat and has a good temperament. I saw him score 160 odd in a second team match against Surrey at Guildford last August. Having just looked up my previous post on that, I see that I referred to him being ''calm and in control''. Pleased that he's now displayed the same qualities at a higher level.

I'm sure Read - both street wise and a street fighter - will try to give it everything tomorrow but I still fancy Middlesex to win. Even if Middlesex only have a session and a half to knock off the required total, it's unlikely Notts will be able to bowl them all out in that time and so their main batsmen should be able to chance their arm a bit.

Smiled at your comment, ''there is nothing for the spinners''. That seems to be the case everywhere at the moment. I was at Guildford today (the general Surrey thread refers) and was surprised to see Danny Briggs playing for Hants seconds there rather than being in their current CC match.

[msp83]

Nice to know that away from the England setup, Steven Finn is on a path to rediscovery. Has Compton found himself among the runs? And is there any semi-decent options for a spinner coming up other than the county parttimer who bats a bit? How's Panesar doing?

[Guest]

Monty hasn't been amongst the wickets msp, however fortress Chelmsford is usually quite flat so he has to try and play a containing role here.

[msp83]

Thanks CF.
How has the other spinners gone so far? Kerrigan? Rashid? Borthwick's had a bowl as yet?

[Guest]

Borthwick hasn't bowled a lot, but he's scored some runs i believe....

Tymal Mills has bowled well in this game,has been rapid, and got wickets.

[Mat]

First win of the season for Worcestershire, nice to get one on the board early. Particularly nice to see the likes of Shantry, Andrew and Morris stepping up to the plate in the seam bowling department, sharing the 10 second innings wickets between them.

MSP, Moeen Ali took 3-48 from 18 overs in the first innings. Moeen for England   

[jimbohammers]

Carberry finishes with 2 sixes to bring up his 100 and win the game for Hampshire. Vince 58 from 36 as well.

Good win

[msp83]

MSP, Moeen Ali took 3-48 from 18 overs in the first innings. Moeen for England   
Ali, if he can bat up to international standards, could come in as a batsman who bowls a bit. Should be a better pick than Borthwick anyway.

[Guest]

good winning start for the essex boys!!! 50 run win... however i did expect a more comfortable win, however a win is a win!!

Although could lose points because of our over rates YET AGAIN!!! Scoreboard said -3 on the over rate

[skyeman]

Onions doing his bit to try and get Durham yet another last two session win. Northants 147/6.


Could not quite pull it off, the last wkt pair survived the last nine overs.  

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Northants cling on with one wicket remaining

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Some good matches all round.  Only Somerset v Yorks petered out into a dull draw.

[Shelsey93]

It was all quite easy for Middlesex today. Tim Murtagh produced a brilliant out-swinger to remove Chris Read early on, after which Notts folded. Riki Wessels' eyes-to-the-sky mow to mid-on epitomised the approach. Middx had 112 to get and were never in trouble. They didn't lose a wicket and Rogers scored at better than a run a ball.

At the close I spoke to both captains, and was glad to hear Rogers echo my thoughts on both Robson and Finn - http://deepextracover.com/2014/04/16/rogers-win-over-notts-showed-a-lot-of-character/#.U07PEV4uzt0

[NickisBHAFC]

Sussex Top of the league, Happy days

[jimbohammers]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/27055180

Carberry still hopes for England place....

[guildfordbat]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/27055180

Carberry still hopes for England place....

Carberry certainly shouldn't be discounted. His Championship runs in the first month or so of this season should count as much as those of anyone else. That said, I suspect he will need to do even better than his contenders for an opening spot given he's had a chance and not fully seized it. That might be harsh, Jimbo, but I think that's the reality as far as the selectors are concerned.

[jimbohammers]

Fair point Guildford, but I feel he has taken a lot of flack for the Ashes disappointment. Yet he was our 2nd highest runscorer and in my opinion a few of his dismissals were unlucky.

Think they have treated him pretty poorly. How was he not considered for the ODI's + T20, you only have to look at his form in the last 2/3 years to see he deserves a spot. Apparantly he wasn't eve given an explanation.

England should also be watching James Vince, who is a class act.

[msp83]

England ill-treating those who scored some runs in that Ashes campaign is no surprise is it?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Treadwell dropped by his county, not good for his England chances

[guildfordbat]

Treadwell dropped by his county, not good for his England chances

Good spot, Olly. That's seriously bad news for Tredwell even though Kent have tried to dress it up. Sounding like a cross between ex Surrey supremo Chris Adams and The Office's David Brent, Kent's Head Coach Jimmy Adams has said, ''We have decided to give Treddy some time away from the spotlight of first-team cricket to concentrate on some technical modifications as he readjusts to Championship cricket after a winter of ODIs and T20s''.   

Few wickets seem to be falling to spinners at the moment. Unless someone makes a strong case soon, the job for England's first Test might go to a part-timer such as Root and/or Moenn Ali.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Treadwell dropped by his county, not good for his England chances

Good spot, Olly. That's seriously bad news for Tredwell even though Kent have tried to dress it up. Sounding like a cross between ex Surrey supremo Chris Adams and The Office's David Brent, Kent's Head Coach Jimmy Adams has said, ''We have decided to give Treddy some time away from the spotlight of first-team cricket to concentrate on some technical modifications as he readjusts to Championship cricket after a winter of ODIs and T20s''.   

Few wickets seem to be falling to spinners at the moment. Unless someone makes a strong case soon, the job for England's first Test might go to a part-timer such as Root and/or Moenn Ali.

   The only thing missing is an assurance that Tredwell is "immense in the dressing room".

[Shelsey93]

I'm not sure Tredwell should have had an England chance anyway. His Championship form has been pretty shoddy for quite a while now - he went a remarkable period of time with no wickets at all last year. This probably blows any possibility that the selectors decide to take a punt on him because he's 'solid in the dressing room' though.

I really don't like the part-time option, though I think it is distinctly possible. Spin will be needed at some stage, even if just in a holding role, and with Stokes in the side assuming all is well with the injury there will be four seamers anyway. Who that should be is difficult. Kerrigan has been the best in the country in recent summers but, with memories of The Oval to contend with, its possible they'll save him up for a while longer. Ideally they'd probably be best to give Monty a summer but I think they'd like to move on from him really.

[guildfordbat]

I'm not sure Tredwell should have had an England chance anyway. His Championship form has been pretty shoddy for quite a while now - he went a remarkable period of time with no wickets at all last year. This probably blows any possibility that the selectors decide to take a punt on him because he's 'solid in the dressing room' though.

I really don't like the part-time option, though I think it is distinctly possible. Spin will be needed at some stage, even if just in a holding role, and with Stokes in the side assuming all is well with the injury there will be four seamers anyway. Who that should be is difficult. Kerrigan has been the best in the country in recent summers but, with memories of The Oval to contend with, its possible they'll save him up for a while longer. Ideally they'd probably be best to give Monty a summer but I think they'd like to move on from him really.

Shelsey - I'm also not at all keen on the part-time option. You need Test quality bowlers to bowl at Test quality batsmen. Root bowled too much in Australia and, unsurprisingly, with a lack of success. Like you though, I think it is ''distinctly possible''.

Unlike you though, I was content to give Tredwell an England chance this season. Not because I believe he's great (he's not!) but because I think he would have been steady and not given too much away. That's hardly a ringing endorsement but, as you appear to suggest, there aren't many others with a convincing case. My hope was that Tredwell would at least have bought time for someone to come through. However, if he's not playing CC cricket, England will have to go elsewhere.

[alfie]

You'd think the part time spinner option would be quite likely at the start of the internationals , ie versus Sri Lanka...as one might expect the quicks to do the job. Later though a proper spinner might be required : but perhaps it won't hurt to let the contenders have a few matches to show what they can do first anyway ?
End of the day you surely pick the attack you think will win you a Test Match rather than try to conform to some notion of what constitutes a suitable balanced team ; and that is going to depend on what you actually have available as well as the prevailing conditions...and no , I am not blind to the need for rebuilding ; but I think for England at present the first priority is to actually start winning games of cricket.

[Hoggy_Bear]

5-fer for Woakes as Warks. bowl out Lancs. for under 250. Not bad, given Lancs won the toss. Hope Warks. bat like in the second innings against Sussex, not like the first.

[msp83]

They should go in with Panesar. He seems like the only viable option at the moment as Tredwell isn't even finding a place in the county side. But then, going by the England selectorial standards of late, that might just be the qualification that Tredwell needs to playe a season or 2 of test cricket!. Woakes for Bresnan could be another sensible move as the former is a much better bat and not a worse bowler, Myths apart on economy rates!.

[Mat]

Saw a nice stat on Twitter early from George Dobell. Since 2012, Moeen has taken 88 first class wickets at an average of 31. Bit better than a part-timer if you ask me.

[msp83]

That looks more promising than the figures of the non-bowling regular spinner that England picked in Borthwick. Ali is also a proper batsman.

[Shelsey93]

Saw a nice stat on Twitter early from George Dobell. Since 2012, Moeen has taken 88 first class wickets at an average of 31. Bit better than a part-timer if you ask me.

All true, but I still think it would be a huge ask for him to be the main spinner in a Test Match. All of those wickets have come in Division Two and I'm sure the average will have been boosted by that ridiculous haul he had at Old Trafford a couple of years back. Definitely a better spinning bet than Borthwick for me but I maintain that a front-line spinner should be picked.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Northants finding the going tough against Yorks.  All out for 94 in reply to Yorks 459 - 9. In the Yorks innings after the first wicket fell the next eight were all lbw.

[Mat]

Saw a nice stat on Twitter early from George Dobell. Since 2012, Moeen has taken 88 first class wickets at an average of 31. Bit better than a part-timer if you ask me.

All true, but I still think it would be a huge ask for him to be the main spinner in a Test Match. All of those wickets have come in Division Two and I'm sure the average will have been boosted by that ridiculous haul he had at Old Trafford a couple of years back. Definitely a better spinning bet than Borthwick for me but I maintain that a front-line spinner should be picked.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying he could/should be the main spinner, but I think he is a better bowler than some are making him out to be and certainly not a part-timer in the Root mould.

[msp83]

A frontline spinner is a must in most conditions. The only one of international standards that England now has is Monty Panesar. They should hope that he gets himself sorted out and reach a place where he can do the job for the side. If Ali is similar to the level of say, someone like JP Duminy, then he could be considered, but even then he has to be the 2nd spinner in most conditions. Adil Rashid scored some early season runs didn't he? How is his bowling coming along?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rashid's bowling sucks, he's much worse than Ali IMHO

For the early tests in the summer I think we can get away with Ali/Root so long as we pick attacking seam options, however later in the summer we will need a front line spinner

I do think Ali/Root would do a good job tho

[msp83]

I am not really sure about Root as a regular spin option. He's more of a 5-6 overs a day bowler rather than a 12-15 overs a day one. All factors considered including maintaining a decent over rate, it is the latter kind that England need in most games. On an absolute green top, they might be able to bowl sides out on day one itself if they pick the right seam attack. But if there is one solid partnership, the one-dimensional nature of the attack can quickly become a burden.
The other point is that on a track that doesn't spin, what you need is a spinner who is very accurate, not a parttimer. The proper spinner may not turn and spin sides out, but if he could keep things quiet, then the seamers can do the work from the other end. The thing with most parttimers is that they are not really that accurate and can offer too many hit-me-balls.

[Shelsey93]

I'm not sure the difference between Root and Ali is that huge to be honest. Ali is probably a slightly better/ more consistent red ball spinner, largely because the lack of a reliable specialist spinner at Worcs has caused him to bowl a lot more overs than Root has ever needed to at Yorks. However, Root is developing into a very useful limited-overs bowling option. If they were both to play, and no specialist was selected, I'd imagine they'd both be given a go and whoever was bowling the best would end up bowling more overs.

I'm not sure its fair to criticise Rashid's bowling too much. Leg-spinners rarely enjoy bowling in county cricket, often partly because captains are reluctant to use them. He's become more of a batsman now though and, if you were to rely on batsmen than bowl, you'd probably want somebody more reliable than him.

It is often assumed that English pitches will do all sorts for the seamers early in the summer and then spin comes in more as the year goes on. There may be some truth to that but it is far from guaranteed that that will be the case. The first Test isn't until mid-June this year, by which time I'd expect flat pitches with the possibility of spin if the weather is good. Even if the weather isn't good Test pitches rarely do all that much. The advent of heavy-duty covers and efficient drainage systems have just about consigned the green seamer to history. Even where grass is visible this is often deliberately left on because the groundsman is worried that the pitch will be too slow.

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