Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by GSC Tue 6 May - 10:51

First topic message reminder :

I wouldn't be upset, if it were limited to League 2 and below, and had a quota of English players with an age cap.

by NickisBHAFC Tue 6 May - 22:35

Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

by Ent Tue 6 May - 22:36

mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

by Ent Tue 6 May - 22:37

NickisBHAFC wrote:Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

All about the service.

by GSC Tue 6 May - 22:39

Lets not to go too overboard after 1 game against a manager who typically puts up as much resistance at OT as the plasticine his face is made of

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 22:39

Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

you didnt have to take it 100% literally.

there should be more players coming through the lesser leagues that can compete at the top.

the top prospects go to top clubs and either do ok or aren't up to it and replaced by foreign talent, the others that start out in the lower leagues(that are in a much larger population that have more chance in producing more quality talent through sheer numbers end up learning the wrong skill sets to compete at that lesser level.

So basically that is an argument for B teams.....

Not that i am 100% convinced on it. but that issue could be dealt with, lesser players(at a young age- not necessarily at a later point though) will have better coaching, better philosophies and better prospects.

by **Hero** Tue 6 May - 22:44

There's very rarely players coming from the Conference to the Prem because obviously if a kid has any talent from an early age he's sniffed out by the top sides and put through their youth system whilst the Conference sides haven't the resources to scour the grassroots for them.
If a player hasn't got the skill, work rate and commitment by the age of 12-13 then it's rare they ever will.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 6 May - 22:45

GSC wrote:Again you talk about quality coaching, is a prospect more likely to get that at a PL B team or your typical league 2 side.

I can't agree with a system that sees a club get shafted to fit them in initially, but otherwise, tradition can't really be an excuse when traditional English football is lagging behind the rest of the world.

The last point very much depends whether you are more concerned with the League system or the national team. I prefer the league system, especially if its a choice between harming one to benefit the other.

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 22:46

my point wasn't just about conference players - it was about players throughout the football league.

many kids mature later on.

by Ent Tue 6 May - 22:46

mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

you didnt have to take it 100% literally.

there should be more players coming through the lesser leagues that can compete at the top.

the top prospects go to top clubs and either do ok or aren't up to it and replaced by foreign talent, the others that start out in the lower leagues(that are in a much larger population that have more chance in producing more quality talent through sheer numbers end up learning the wrong skill sets to compete at that lesser level.

Why?

I don't get your logic. Sheer weight of numbers? Anyone with any real potential is picked up early by a club and are trained for years yet most of them don't make it at top level.

If it was purely down to weight of numbers then England would do better on the international scene, but not as good as china...

by **Hero** Tue 6 May - 22:48

mystiroakey wrote:my point wasn't just about conference players - it was about players throughout the football league.

many kids mature later on.

They mature certainly, that's growing up obviously, but look at the 3 youngsters that played for Utd tonight, 2 with the club from the age of 8, the other joined from overseas at the age of 12.

by GSC Tue 6 May - 22:50

If its done right, and the FA is obligated to, then the harm is largely overblown.

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 22:50

Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

you didnt have to take it 100% literally.

there should be more players coming through the lesser leagues that can compete at the top.

the top prospects go to top clubs and either do ok or aren't up to it and replaced by foreign talent, the others that start out in the lower leagues(that are in a much larger population that have more chance in producing more quality talent through sheer numbers end up learning the wrong skill sets to compete at that lesser level.

Why?

I don't get your logic. Sheer weight of numbers? Anyone with any real potential is picked up early by a club and are trained for years yet most of them don't make it at top level.

If it was purely down to weight of numbers then England would do better on the international scene, but not as good as china...

well then you have totally missed the point then.

if the larger population of players aren't being coached at a high level they cant make it to the top.

with b teams - the slightly lesser players would end up having high class coaching and facilities and prospects.

its the whole point of b teams- utilising more of the available population- not just using them as donkeys to play in the lesser leagues

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 22:53

Hero wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:my point wasn't just about conference players - it was about players throughout the football league.

many kids mature later on.

They mature certainly, that's growing up obviously, but look at the 3 youngsters that played for Utd tonight, 2 with the club from the age of 8, the other joined from overseas at the age of 12.

we all know what they do in south america- kids pretend to be younger than they are so they end up looking better and end up getting picked for a side....

well done to united though. they have been producing players for ages- about time we get to see a few more come through and play..

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 6 May - 22:53

Hero wrote:There's very rarely players coming from the Conference to the Prem because obviously if a kid has any talent from an early age he's sniffed out by the top sides and put through their youth system whilst the Conference sides haven't the resources to scour the grassroots for them.
If a player hasn't got the skill, work rate and commitment by the age of 12-13 then it's rare they ever will.

Chris Smalling is one of the few rare examples and living in Maidstone and watching them a fair few times, he didn't stand out so was surprised when Fulham signed him let alone seeing him end up at United.

by kingraf Tue 6 May - 22:55

I was 4'10 66kg of lard at 13... decent centre back, could read the game, tackle well, pass well, had some burners for a fatties, I lacked the workrate... Now I'm 6'0 95kg of lean, I had a late growth spurt (17ish). Things happen during the teenage years, lots of examples in other sports of kids suddenly "clicking". Is it the general rule? No. But it happens more often than a true exception.

by GSC Tue 6 May - 22:55

I'm still surprised

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 22:57

kingraf wrote:I was 4'10 66kg of lard at 13... decent centre back, could read the game, tackle well, pass well, had some burners for a fatties, I lacked the workrate... Now I'm 6'0 95kg of lean, I had a late growth spurt (17ish). Things happen during the teenage years, lots of examples in other sports of kids suddenly "clicking". Is it the general rule? No. But it happens more often than a true exception.

exactly...

by Ent Tue 6 May - 23:01

mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

you didnt have to take it 100% literally.

there should be more players coming through the lesser leagues that can compete at the top.

the top prospects go to top clubs and either do ok or aren't up to it and replaced by foreign talent, the others that start out in the lower leagues(that are in a much larger population that have more chance in producing more quality talent through sheer numbers end up learning the wrong skill sets to compete at that lesser level.

Why?

I don't get your logic. Sheer weight of numbers? Anyone with any real potential is picked up early by a club and are trained for years yet most of them don't make it at top level.

If it was purely down to weight of numbers then England would do better on the international scene, but not as good as china...

well then you have totally missed the point then.

if the larger population of players aren't being coached at a high level they cant make it to the top.

with b teams - the slightly lesser players would end up having high class coaching and facilities and prospects.

its the whole point of b teams- utilising more of the available population- not just using them as donkeys to play in the lesser leagues

The net is cast very wide and given the restraints on where you can take kids in from there are very few with any real potential missed by league sides.

The point of the b sides is to get the academy guys experience of competitive football, not get more kids coaching.

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 23:03

Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Its a tough one but ultimately its a grind on the lower teams and there is no incentive for those teams to create skillfull players.

Gayle is a story that is rarely seen.

2 years ago he scored a hatrick for a conference team
yesterday he scored 2 against liverpool in the PL

There should be 100's of players like that coming through the ranks- but sadly the best ones are picked up by top sides young and the lesser ones dont get to learn the correct skill sets to be able to play in the PL.

There should be 100s of players coming from the conference to the pl?

Right...

you didnt have to take it 100% literally.

there should be more players coming through the lesser leagues that can compete at the top.

the top prospects go to top clubs and either do ok or aren't up to it and replaced by foreign talent, the others that start out in the lower leagues(that are in a much larger population that have more chance in producing more quality talent through sheer numbers end up learning the wrong skill sets to compete at that lesser level.

Why?

I don't get your logic. Sheer weight of numbers? Anyone with any real potential is picked up early by a club and are trained for years yet most of them don't make it at top level.

If it was purely down to weight of numbers then England would do better on the international scene, but not as good as china...

well then you have totally missed the point then.

if the larger population of players aren't being coached at a high level they cant make it to the top.

with b teams - the slightly lesser players would end up having high class coaching and facilities and prospects.

its the whole point of b teams- utilising more of the available population- not just using them as donkeys to play in the lesser leagues

The net is cast very wide and given the restraints on where you can take kids in from there are very few with any real potential missed by league sides.

The point of the b sides is to get the academy guys experience of competitive football, not get more kids coaching.

and yet there are still going to get much better coaching(or should get better coaching because they will be primed for the full side and the full sides philosophy- rather than being farmed out to cardiff etc!!)

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 6 May - 23:03

Ent wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

All about the service.

Indeed

Hyping this kid after he's scored a couple of tap ins, seen some seriously suggesting he should go to Brazil

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 23:04

Olly wrote:
Ent wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

All about the service.

Indeed

Hyping this kid after he's scored a couple of tap ins, seen some seriously suggesting he should go to Brazil

isnt he welsh Very Happy

poor lad is getting the Rodgers treatment

by Ent Tue 6 May - 23:05

Olly wrote:
Ent wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

All about the service.

Indeed

Hyping this kid after he's scored a couple of tap ins, seen some seriously suggesting he should go to Brazil

Where?

by Fernando Tue 6 May - 23:06

mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
Ent wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Giggs has to stay at United, im not a United fan in the slightest, but ill be devastated to see him that football club.

Wilson looks a real prospect for United, good news there. More goals than a 10 million pound man in RVW, wow that's got to hurt for Norwich fans and for RVW himself, he has been a huge huge disappointment.

All about the service.

Indeed

Hyping this kid after he's scored a couple of tap ins, seen some seriously suggesting he should go to Brazil

isnt he welsh

poor lad is getting the Rodgers treatment

No he's english Hug

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 23:07

lol- i checked him out--- and read up on an oldham player called james wilson...

Haha- i am not on form at the moment lads..

apoligies..

YES Wilson for Brazil

by Ent Tue 6 May - 23:07

Wonder if myler will miss the cup final for that stamp.

by Duty281 Tue 6 May - 23:08

He's English and Brendan Rodgers is....French? I forget. Whistle

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 23:10

Rodgers does seem to have an identity crises to be fair !!

he just come out shouldn't he duty?

by kingraf Tue 6 May - 23:12

Aah Rodgers... Reminds me of an English manager in the local league who had a ten point gap over the local team. Like Liverpool, they won 9 in a row or something, and like Liverpool, they've finished the season empty handed.
#Chickens
#Hatch

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 6 May - 23:20

Lawrence is Welsh Mysti, blame that for the confusion.

by mystiroakey Tue 6 May - 23:23

I keep crediting the welsh for players and managers that aren't theirs...My confusion. I blame Tom Woodward(jones)

by compelling and rich Tue 6 May - 23:54

januzaj looking class again tonight, similar tactics to most teams that the only way hull could deal with him was boot him. wouldn't be surprised if meyler misses the final now and he would deserve it, knew exactly what he was doing

on the new restructure, as a united fan if i wanted to go watch lower league football id go watch oldham/rochdale or bury. they need all the help they can get and are all fantastic clubs with a rich history of there own. if i wanted to watch united reserves i'd go watch that league where united reserves play, oh yeah think they call it a reserves league fancy that

by westisbest Wed 7 May - 9:55

16/1 for us to beat City tonight.

Think i'll put a tenner on that.

Why not.

I fancy us tonight.
C'mon the Villa.

by Stella Wed 7 May - 10:45

If City win tonight, and Sunderland get a point, we could have the most pointless last day that I can remember.

by Ent Wed 7 May - 10:46

City would still need to clinch it.

Would be something that with all the excitement and unpredictability of this season if everything was decided (more or less) before the final fay

by Stella Wed 7 May - 10:49

I would expect City to get a point on Sunday, but imagine them slipping up tonight. Norwich are down anyway, I would think, no matter what Sunderland do.

by mystiroakey Wed 7 May - 10:54

Well there is allways West ham... But the season has been amazing for both ends and it could well end in an anti climax.

by Stella Wed 7 May - 10:55

mystiroakey wrote:Well there is allways West ham... But the season has been amazing for both ends and it could well end in an anti climax.

Shades of 1995?

by mystiroakey Wed 7 May - 11:05

West ham will want to play a part in the race.. I dont remember what happened in 95(i assume something similar) but then so will Villa.

There is a vibrancy about the bottom half clubs at the moment - and it's not just palace- although I do feel Palace are pushing everyone to never give up on this league even when there is nothing really to play for.

I just heard that Van Gaal is going to block Nani's sale!!

That basically tells me he is guaranteed at united. But also tells me he isnt looking at Zaha in a favourable light... Come on Vaan Gaal let us have Zaha!!

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 7 May - 11:08

We cost United the title with obscene amounts of effort according to Fergie. I'm convinced that goalkeeping performance is why we still sing about Ludo Miklosko to this day

by westisbest Wed 7 May - 11:21

I just want us to win for us, not fussed who wins the league.

Bit of a boost after saturday's result.

Although hearing that Lambert may start Jordan Bowery.
Has been very poor this season

But turning my negative into a positive, if he does start than good luck to him.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 7 May - 11:23

westisbest wrote:I just want us to win for us, not fussed who wins the league.

Bit of a boost after saturday's result.

Although hearing that Lambert may start Jordan Bowery.
Has been very poor this season

But turning my negative into a positive, if he does start than good luck to him.

He played well against Hull when he came on didn't he?

Can't see nothing but a loss for Villa tonight, don't think it'll be close either tbh

by westisbest Wed 7 May - 11:24

He did pretty well saturday to be fair to him.

Set up Weimann's second.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 7 May - 11:55

Villa can counter attack good sides. They can also capitulate

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 7 May - 12:06

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Villa can counter attack good sides. They can also capitulate

Don't fancy them so much without Benteke, think he was the main piece to setting up those counters

Plus Nathan Baker sux

by GSC Wed 7 May - 12:10

Garry Monk to be named permanant Swansea manager then

by westisbest Wed 7 May - 12:32

Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Villa can counter attack good sides. They can also capitulate
Don't fancy them so much without Benteke, think he was the main piece to setting up those counters

Plus Nathan Baker sux

Hearing he's part of a swap deal with Hoolahan: Wink

by westisbest Wed 7 May - 12:35

If he's not fit, then we will miss Gabby's pace.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 7 May - 12:38

westisbest wrote:
Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Villa can counter attack good sides. They can also capitulate
Don't fancy them so much without Benteke, think he was the main piece to setting up those counters

Plus Nathan Baker sux

Hearing he's part of a swap deal with Hoolahan:

Tbf he could probably do a job in the Championship!

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 7 May - 13:17

GSC wrote:Garry Monk to be named permanant Swansea manager then

All aboard the Swansea City relegation bus next season? I'd expect bids for Bony and Michu this summer, some unhappy Spanish lads and a panic sacking come December

by mystiroakey Wed 7 May - 13:20

Bony for me is the most under talked about forward- for me better at holding up than lukaka..

But as a palace fan I hope we go for Mutch. Bony will be worth a few quid...

He has played nicely for cardiff, we can off load murray to a champ side where he can flourish once more.. And hopefully Gayle will stay(although not sure if TP feels the need for him)

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