Provodnikov-spoilers

After last night's shocking defeat what do you think provodnikov will do now. Also im willing to bet Bob Arum is gutted as Provodnikov was one of the potential opponents for Pacman. Given this who do you see Manny fighting next?

Manny will still fight Prov. Coming off a loss so perfect timing for him.

See Rios.

True but the rios fight was when manny was coming off a loss so was perhaps more acceptable however now of course thats not the case. I also fround provodnikov's excuse after about not wanting to fight guys who move kind of pathetic

Yeh I agree wheelchair mate.

"I prefer to fight people who stand and trade and not runners"

Bit pathetic really. He traded with Bradley and lost and now he got outboxed.

The same happens with Rios.

Rios vs Prov would be seriously great to watch.

JMM/PAC/Bradley all beat Prov handily IMO

What got me also was how crude and basic he was

He always has been. Even before his fight with Bradley.

Tim could have boxed his head off all night but he CHOSE to trade after his criticism from the pacquiao fight.

Prov to me is an upgraded version of Rios. Exciting to watch bit will come unstuck against the big boys.

Terrible match-making putting Provodnikov in with that guy. What were they thinking.

Prov saying he doesn't like fighters who move is cringeworthy. For me that's the equivalent of a fighter saying he doesn't like big punchers after suffering a KO.

Prov's too crude to mix it with the top operators, better off in wars against other come forward fighters or as a gatekeeper for prospects who haven't been in there with rough fighters yet.

A fight against PAC would be a procession

In regards to the matchmaking i think they thought provodnikov would bully his opponent and to be fair i thought that too after the first round

Bad match making couldnt be worse than Andrade vs Rose.

What a complete and utter destruction.

The first knockdown was a peach but the counter right was sooooo good to watch.

Rose was absolutely WAY out of his league and depth as we already knew going in.

Yeah but he won the final eliminator and deserved his shot, people criticise hearn but he does a good job at getting his fighters opportunities fair enough rose was out of his depth but he earnt his opportunity and got outclassed no shame in that

Don't see the point in sticking a fighter in with an opponent who is leagues above. I'm sure Rose was happy to take the shot but that's when a manager steps in and starts talking sense to the lad.

I wonder if Matchroom get brownie points with the governing organizations by sending patsies over to fight for world titles in the States.

Rose had a shot at a WT, who would turn that down? He also made more money than ever before. I think Matchroom should be applauded for getting average fighters a title shot. That said, he was beaten from pillar to post, was never even remotely in the fight and looked a mess at the end. Brave man, continuing to try to fight, but Crawford literally teed off on him at will. Rose is domestic, maybe European level. Will need a long layoff after that.

I bet Hearn's gutted he couldn't get Rose a shot at a vacant WBA 'regular' super welterweight belt(currently holder is Erislandy Lara).

Andrade was leagues above Rose, but IMO is a poor man Lara.

Andrade gets schooled by Mayweather(the true SWW champion) and sparked out by Alvarez.

I think matchroom should be appluaded too(if strongback is reading this im sure he would disagree)

Andrade v Rose was a pointless fight and a predictable slaughter

I said in my magazine piece for this fight that Algieri was a very live underdog in this fight and that his style would cause Provodnikov a lot of problems and give him a great fight.....But even I had to stop just short of actually saying he would get the win outright. Thought Algieri would lose valiantly on points. But I had him edging it 114-113 and he thoroughly deserves the title and plaudits.

Fantastically gutsy effort after those two knockdowns in the first round and having to more or less fight with one eye for much of the bout.

Provodnikov didn't cover himself in glory with his comments immediately afterwards, and besides, Algieri was certainly not 'running' last night in any case. He used the ring and his legs but struck the balance of evading Provodnikov's swings while still being in position to counter and jab before stepping around and out of danger very, very well.

People will say that Provodnikov took his eye off the ball, but going back to what I wrote above, I just think that someone with Algieri's style always has the capacity to cause him problems if they aren't scared in to a shell by his come-forward confidence and aggression. He says he wants to be retired and out of the game by the end of 2015, so if he is going to land that big, big pay day against a Garcia or a Pacquiao before then he's going to have to produce a miraculous turnaround in a short space of time.

But an excellent fight and a big congratulations to Algieri.

Seeing as Algieri won the fight with one eye, can people stop making excuses for Lucas Matthysse for getting whooped by Danny Garcia?

Because Ruslan and Garcia are the same opponent.

Disgraceful matchmaking from Hearn securing Rose an opportunity of a lifetime, hardly sets his career back, he goes back to European and domestic level now.

A good manager would have built Rose's name on Sky and made him as much or more than taking a potentially career shortening beat down.

I'm all for ambitious match making but letting that happen to Rose could never be seen as a good move. It will take him a long time to come back from that if he ever fully does. He has said in the past he suffers from a lack of self confidence and considered giving up boxing after a defeat previously.

This isn't like Cleverly or Bellew getting beaten by Kovalev or Stevenson. Rose had no place being in that ring.

Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

Still would be a career high payday by some distance, only a fool would turn down the opportunity but it gives you another chance to bash Hearn so do carry on.

Strongback wrote:A good manager would have built Rose's name on Sky and made him as much or more than taking a potentially career shortening beat down.

I'm all for ambitious match making but letting that happen to Rose could never be seen as a good move. It will take him a long time to come back from that if he ever fully does.  He has said in the past he suffers from a lack of self confidence and considered giving up boxing after a defeat previously.

This isn't like Cleverly or Bellew getting beaten by Kovalev or Stevenson. Rose had no place being in that ring.

Rose didn't seem too down-beat when they interviewed him in the dressing afterwards. He said something along the lines of Andrade was the better man and that fighting for a world title in New York was a wonderful experience that he'd never forget.

I'm not sure SKY could have built him up much at all. Rose simply isn't that good. Imagine if Hearn had turned down the title shot and then Rose lost to a domestic level operator - that really would've been poor management.

Strongback wrote:Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

So he gets a once in a lifetime shot at a world title, the chance to fight in America and earns more for the fight than most earn in a year. Rose has to back himself, a fighter can't go through his career avoiding golden opportunities in case he gets shown up, he has to grasp them in the knowledge that he is good enough to still make a living at European level should he not succeed. Fair play to Hearn if you ask me.

Strongback wrote:Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

You are simply pathetic when it comes to Hearn fighters.

A good manager would have built him...

Built him to what? Does everybody get to be built into a huge star? No. Rose maxed out his talent and his worth. He simply isn't good enough or entertaining enough and Hearn got him a great shot. You are right, he should have stayed at domestic level (where he would also be punched) and fight for 10k a fight.

Rose is average and pretty dreadful to watch. Hes never going to be a star or attraction so Hearn is happy enough to steer him towards a world title shot and send him abroad to get slaughtered for a pay day.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Strongback wrote:Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

You are simply pathetic when it comes to Hearn fighters.

A good manager would have built him...

Built him to what? Does everybody get to be built into a huge star? No. Rose maxed out his talent and his worth. He simply isn't good enough or entertaining enough and Hearn got him a great shot. You are right, he should have stayed at domestic level (where he would also be punched) and fight for 10k a fight.  

Your sycophantic attitude towards Hearn is pathetic. You're just toeing the consensus line around here.

Have a look around the forums and read American fans saying 'what the hell were HBO thinking putting this fight on' generally followed by the comments including terms like 'British Bums'.

There is currently a balanced debate on Check Hook Boxing's British forum on whether Rose should have been in the ring last night and Hearn's level of responsibility for what happened.

Rose got $100,000 which is £59,000 without subtracting a currency conversion charge. 25% of that goes to Hearn. The trainer gets 10%. Then the cut man. Then the expenses which would have been significant fighting in America. All this before the tax man come for his slice. Rose will be lucky to put £30k in his bank account. Hardly "life changing money".

Which is about ten times more than he'll have got for fighting at European level, why do you only complain when it involves a Hearn fighter?

Its nothing new. Happens all the time in boxing.

I fail to see the difference in a journeyman like Billy Smith fighting Ricky Burns, knowing he has no chance of winning but needs the payday?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Which is about ten times more than he'll have got for fighting at European level, why do you only complain when it involves a Hearn fighter?

No other promoter gets his fighters into mandatory shots by fighting nobodies and then sends them in with top class fighters.

Warren could get any fight he wanted with the WBO but he didn't cash in any of his fighters for a quick pay day by feeding them to a lion in the States.

The only reason I can see for Matchroom taking the Rose fight was because of the opportunity to schmooz with HBO. I reckon Brook is next to be cashed in Stateside.

For Hearn it is all about the money a Chavez Jr fight would bring. He wants to help out his brother from another mother and "best mate" Carl Froch before he retires.

Fairly sure that both Jennings and Lockett were promoted by Warren when they were sent over to America to challenge Cotto and Pavlik respectively.

Hearn wants to make the most money he can off Rose. Rose found his level and had no potential to be built up or to be a big money attraction. Hearn was happy enough to send over to take a well paid beating. Decent money for Hearn off a fighter that wasnt going any futher.

Rees defending against Kotelnik, Enzo Mac against Haye, Afolabi and Lebedev, Frenkel and Braehmer or how about Julius Francis fighting Tyson?

catchweight wrote:Hearn wants to make the most money he can off Rose. Rose found his level and had no potential to be built up or to be a big money attraction. Hearn was happy enough to send over to take a well paid beating. Decent money for Hearn off a fighter that wasnt going any futher.

But the money wasn't decent. I know I get paid better than Rose does and I don't get punched in the face or get up at 5.30 in the morning and pound the streets.

It was decent money Hearn who isnt getting punched in the face. And more than Rose could expect for any other fight. He average and liable to lose to any decent domestic or European standard fighter. Hes boring to watch so wont be drawing a crowd.

Now he can be marketed to others as a world title challenger and might get a few decent offers in the future as someone with "world class experience" who can make a good upcoming fighter look like a million dollars.

Also strongback by your logic barker would not have got in with martinez because before the fight it looked to many as if he would get smashed. Now i know he lost but he gave a good account of himself in s competitive fight. Hearn got rose a world title chance dont see why your so critical apart from your obvious bias against hearn. There are also numerous examples of Warren doing the same thing, julieus francis being an obvious example. There is nothing wrong with giving a fighter who has earned mandetory status a chance

60k sterling for 6 weeks training and 7 rounds is good money to someone like Rose.

Rees, Enzo were defending world champs in two of those loses.

Calling up losses that a shot Enzo has as he tries to climb back to where he was at his peak bears no comparison to fighters on the way up getting slaughtered by top level opponents in the States.

A well worn Tyson was looking for a fight outside the US and wanted an easy night against a journeyman.  It was great business for Warren and for Francis who was a never was never will be. It also wasn't a world title fight.

There's absolutely no difference between any of the fights I mentioned at all, it's good business for Francis getting a payday but not for Rose, figure that logic out. Rose is hardly up and coming at the age of 29 whereas Francis was the British champion so hardly a never was, it's a level very few ever reach.

Enzo Mac had no chance against Haye but Warren was happy to send him to the slaughter just like Rees had no chance against Kotelnik. The only difference being the promoter.

catchweight wrote:60k sterling for 6 weeks training and 7 rounds is good money to someone like Rose.

He won't put half of that £60k into his bank account after he has paid the fees and bills,

And Rose won't be fighting for a long time after the beating he took. Definitely a career shortening fight.

Personally I won't get out of bed for £30k a year. Rose has sacrificed everything for many years and little money, seems it all culminating with him taking a beating and putting £30k in his bank account is a very poor return on his investment.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There's absolutely no difference between any of the fights I mentioned at all, it's good business for Francis getting a payday but not for Rose, figure that logic out. Rose is hardly up and coming at the age of 29 whereas Francis was the British champion so hardly a never was, it's a level very few ever reach.

Enzo Mac had no chance against Haye but Warren was happy to send him to the slaughter just like Rees had no chance against Kotelnik. The only difference being the promoter.

So being a defending champion means you won't face good opponents. Clown.

Being a mandatory challenger means you won't fight the champion by that logic.

Strongback wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Strongback wrote:Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

You are simply pathetic when it comes to Hearn fighters.

A good manager would have built him...

Built him to what? Does everybody get to be built into a huge star? No. Rose maxed out his talent and his worth. He simply isn't good enough or entertaining enough and Hearn got him a great shot. You are right, he should have stayed at domestic level (where he would also be punched) and fight for 10k a fight.  

Your sycophantic attitude towards Hearn is pathetic.  You're just toeing the consensus line around here.

Have a look around the forums and read American fans saying 'what the hell were HBO thinking putting this fight on' generally followed by the comments including terms like 'British Bums'.

There is currently a balanced debate on Check Hook Boxing's British forum on whether Rose should have been in the ring last night and Hearn's level of responsibility for what happened.

Rose got $100,000 which is £59,000 without subtracting a currency conversion charge.  25% of that goes to Hearn. The trainer gets 10%. Then the cut man. Then the expenses which would have been significant fighting in America. All this before the tax man come for his slice.  Rose will be lucky to put £30k in his bank account.  Hardly "life changing money".

I live in North America so I know what they make of the fight, thanks. What is your argument now, that the fight wasn't suitable for HBO? What has that got to do with your previous argument about Rose needing to be built? Also, Rose isn't worth more than $100k, simple as that. What have his deductions got to do with it? He still has those percentage deductions if he gets 10K being 'built' in Blackpool. Built into what, Strongy? How good do you think he is? There is a reason a consensus has formed on Rose. It is because the rest of us know this is as far as he could have hoped to have gone, and for as much money as his limited talent warranted.

I would love to hear what you would have done differently. Please tell us. Or just keep criticising Hearn and his stable, it is really really productive to continuously cr** all over him

And one last thing: how do you know about all these expenses? Promoters often have to pay for the away fighters accommodation, for instance.

Plenty of people work an entire year 9-5 for a 60k salary which they get taxed on and have to pay bills and expenses with. The money is good for the going rate a boxer of Rose's status and ability.

You must think Rose has great potential. I think he had found his level and everybody knew it. This was a well paid mismatch for a promoter who saw the opportunity to make a decent payday out of an average fighter and a boxer who was happy to take the money and the opportunity. Hearn knew Rose would get slaughtered but went with it anyway because the chances of getting a fight like that again were slim and thats about as big a pay day as Rose can hope to get.

Below is a link to a debate demonstrating both sides of the argument in relation to Hearn's match making in the States.  

Maybe it will show that some people around the net have the consensus opinion of 606V2 that Hearn should be defended along with others who criticize Hearn for the same reasons I do.


Find a broader range of opinions of Hearn here:

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?45656-Eddie-quot-quot-Hearn-It-s-all-about-the-money-for-the-Hearns

Whereas there are 2.16 million people in the UK who are unemployed who can only dream of earning 100k.

catchweight wrote:Plenty of people work an entire year 9-5 for a 60k salary which they get taxed on and have to pay bills and expenses with. The money is good for the going rate a boxer of Rose's status and ability.

You must think Rose has great potential. I think he had found his level and everybody knew it. This was a well paid mismatch for a promoter who saw the opportunity to make a decent payday out of an average fighter and a boxer who was happy to take the money and the opportunity. Hearn knew Rose would get slaughtered but went with it anyway because the chances of getting a fight like that again were slim and thats about as big a pay day as Rose can hope to get.

Rose made his pro debut 9 years ago. After all that effort he gets slaughtered in American for £30k or less in his bank account.

Hearn has a responsibility for his fighters well being, Rose could have been killed.

The alternative option for Rose could have been to fight 3 or 4 times a year as a British or Euro level fighter and cumulatively earn the same amount of money as he did for the world title fight.

Derry Matthews got £32k for fighting Crolla a few years ago, Matthews stays busy and fights a few times every year. $100,000 before it gets sliced up is nothing to write home about. Eddie couldn't be arsed with Rose. Still Hearn got to press the flesh in the States so it was worth it for him.

Who's to say he doesn't go the way of Jamie Moore if he stays at domestic level?

You get offered the opportunity and you take it in Rose's situation, you never know when you might lose and completely derail your career something a loss to a world champion will not do.