Provodnikov-spoilers

First topic message reminder :

After last night's shocking defeat what do you think provodnikov will do now. Also im willing to bet Bob Arum is gutted as Provodnikov was one of the potential opponents for Pacman. Given this who do you see Manny fighting next?

What you are complaining about goes on all the time in boxing. Rose was in a mismatch yes. Happens every week. You described Tyson v Francis as good business. Francis was way in over his head there and could also have been killed. Grandad Skelton will get hiding for a few quid against Joshua soon enough. Wilder has been braining misfits. Klitschko is defending the heavyweight world title against overmatched Samoan props.

Rose can take this pay day and still fight on you know. He can still fight at domestic and European level. Hearn couldnt be arsed with Rose because he knows hes got nothing with him. Boring style and average fighter. Both were happy to tke the money for the beating. They would do it again if they good.

Rose is so ordinary that even if he turned down the pay day he could have lost his next fight against a half decent fighter for a quarter of the money he got in his last fight. Hearn figured this a yes, was happy to let Rose take a beating for a pay day.

The only thing I'll add to the debate is that Hearn is in a privileged position, with the showtime/hbo split, goldenboy top rank, he has been able to get his stable world title shots that wouldn't normally be availble to Brits (without selling their souls and promotional rights).

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Strongback wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Strongback wrote:Dan Rafael of ESPN reported that the fighters on the card got the following purses:

Ruslan Provodnikov.: $750,000

Chris Algieri $100,000

Demetrius Andrade: $200,000

Brian Rose: $100,000


By the time Rose pays his promoter/ manager and trainer percentages  along with expenses and having to fly to the States etc I would guess he will make less money out of this fight than many of the posters on here over 30 y.o. make in their yearly salary. The ones that live down South anyway.

You are simply pathetic when it comes to Hearn fighters.

A good manager would have built him...

Built him to what? Does everybody get to be built into a huge star? No. Rose maxed out his talent and his worth. He simply isn't good enough or entertaining enough and Hearn got him a great shot. You are right, he should have stayed at domestic level (where he would also be punched) and fight for 10k a fight.  

Your sycophantic attitude towards Hearn is pathetic.  You're just toeing the consensus line around here.

Have a look around the forums and read American fans saying 'what the hell were HBO thinking putting this fight on' generally followed by the comments including terms like 'British Bums'.

There is currently a balanced debate on Check Hook Boxing's British forum on whether Rose should have been in the ring last night and Hearn's level of responsibility for what happened.

Rose got $100,000 which is £59,000 without subtracting a currency conversion charge.  25% of that goes to Hearn. The trainer gets 10%. Then the cut man. Then the expenses which would have been significant fighting in America. All this before the tax man come for his slice.  Rose will be lucky to put £30k in his bank account.  Hardly "life changing money".

I live in North America so I know what they make of the fight, thanks. What is your argument now, that the fight wasn't suitable for HBO? What has that got to do with your previous argument about Rose needing to be built? Also, Rose isn't worth more than $100k, simple as that. What have his deductions got to do with it? He still has those percentage deductions if he gets 10K being 'built' in Blackpool. Built into what, Strongy? How good do you think he is? There is a reason a consensus has formed on Rose. It is because the rest of us know this is as far as he could have hoped to have gone, and for as much money as his limited talent warranted.

I would love to hear what you would have done differently. Please tell us. Or just keep criticising Hearn and his stable, it is really really productive to continuously cr** all over him

And one last thing: how do you know about all these expenses? Promoters often have to pay for the away fighters accommodation, for instance.

Your attitude to Rose being beaten is different to mine. He could have been seriously injured. A manager should protect his fighter.

If Rose as say a European champ fought 3 or 4 times a year he would make the same money he did taking an absolute career shortening slaughtering in America. We already know Rose has self confidence issues he has discussed publically. Maybe you just see a human form on the TV taking a beating but I try to see the intrinsic values of the man putting his life on the line. I try to look at the nature of the man and understand him. When I look at Rose and listen to his words the last thing he needed was for this fight to happen.

A Warren or a Caldwell would have valued Rose and he would have topped some of their cards. To Eddie he just isn't Carl Froch, I see a ruthless and fakeness about Hearn that many people do although not on this board.

In terms of paying a fighters expenses think about it. If Hearn wanted to bring Andrade to the UK then he would have put him and his team up. Nobody is paying Rose to travel. If he wasn't a mandatory he wouldn't have gotten within a mile of this fight. $100,000 for that beating and probably now being discarded by Hearn just wasn't worth it. A good run of 3 or 4 fights in the UK with a promoter who valued Rose could yield the same return.

I get the feeling you have no real clue about the visceral act of punching a man with the intend to injure and be on the receiving end of the same. Brian Rose deserves to be respected for the person he is and what he has achieved. Saying he can't be built or isn't worthy of good pay days shows how lacking in substance your arguments are.

The same way that Warren valued Lockett and Jennings?

Not sure you can criticise anyone for taking a world title shot, it's the pinnacle of the sport and what everyone who puts the gloves on wants the chance to do. Maybe you have an underlying reason to be criticising this match up? If only there were months of posts criticising this promoter for us to use to judge whether that's true.

Pointless fight for the fans all the same. Rose got the crap beat out of him. Total mismatch. Might have done more harm than good in the long run.

I've seen people on here say pointless fight or pointless card before, normally the card turns out to be a great watch. Rose was always up against it but to say he shouldn't have taken a world title fight or that Eddie Hearn has done him a disservice is stupid.

Overmatched mandatory gets outclassed shocker. Like that's never happened before. Except when Hearn is the promotor it's a ruthless baddie giving a stooge a potential death sentence for a handful of silver. What nonsense. Rose had every right to go fight for a world title, he'd earned it & he's a grown man, nobody can make him get in the ring if he doesn't want to and the ref & his corner are there to protect him if he gets in too much bother. Now he's had his moment, he knows his level and his career can carry on as such.

hampo171 wrote:I've seen people on here say pointless fight or pointless card before, normally the card turns out to be a great watch. Rose was always up against it but to say he shouldn't have taken a world title fight or that Eddie Hearn has done him a disservice is stupid.

If you have a very talented champion then he may as well not fight for for five years If he has to wait for someone on the same level to defend against...

The only fighter I've ever known Catchy ever give credit to is Louis....and he had lot's of meaningful fights didn't he !!

If only Rose was as good as Paychek, Galento, Mauriello, Davis, Simon, Musto, Burman, McCoy, Godoy, Thomas, Mann, Roper and Pastor....

Will say this..What a great interview Rose gave after the fight...........looking at the positives...Wife-to-be....Two kids...Made no attempt at excuses....

What a class act.............If this kid is a loser.....Then there should be thousands of people aspiring to be one.....

Good boy...........No shame in not being good enough If you give your all...

Rose had to grasp this opportunity once he became mandatory. He had earned it, a career best payday, and most importantly a chance to become champion of the world. He was massively up against it but as we all know anything can happen in boxing. The regret would be too big for the rest of your life to turn down the opportunity to fight for a world title.

Anyways, did anyone see the judges scorecards for Algieri-Prov? I believe the judge who had it for Provodnikov had it 117-109 whilst the others had it 114-112 for Algieri. How can it be seen so differently?? I hope judges are made to explain their scores to the governing body after each fight so that these discrepancies can be eliminated.

I think Rose is a big boy and is well capable of standing up for himself if he's being short changed. I don't know the exact figures, but to suggest Hearn gets 25% is rather silly - Hearn is more likely to have negotiated gate/TV revenue for more than $25,000.

He's also done his boy a huge favour, securing him a shot at the world title. Rose may not have been good enough, but who's to say he couldn't "do a Barker" and upset Andrade? It was entirely within the realms of possibility. Yes, boxing is dangerous (thanks for reminding us Strongback) but you have to consider that regardless of who you face, if you're a professional boxer every single time you step between the ropes, you're putting your life at risk, the same as every time you board an airplane, the same as every time you stand at a crossing to walk across the road.

I believe that not only has Hearn done everything he should have done to negotiate a mandatory (Andrade had other options) but he'll not take a large slice of one of his lesser fighters. Its unlikely to be any more than 5% in reality.

Joe Louis on a thread about Brian Rose (or Provodnikov actually). I
guess there is never a bad time to bring him up.

“Did you see Rooneys miss last night. Shocking!”

TRUSSMAN: “Yeah but imagine Joe Louis was playing instead.”

The fight was what it was. A mismatched fight taken for a payday. I don’t see why Hearn deserves any special praise or criticism. He did what you expect a promoter to do and cash in on the money because he knew that’s as good as it gets for Rose. Rose gets a beating but makes several times his normal rate.

To be honest Mate............I think in fairness we all thought Andrade was a step up above Geale talent wise and that Barker was a step above Rose...

But in the days we are in............There is no reason why Rose is/was less deserving than a host of others..... and in past days with seen the likes of Jimmy Navarro and Jack Callaghan fight Orlando Canizales and Hilton respectively for "real" World belts...

A fact lost on many on here........Who revere the past and forget it's idiosynchrasies (That's the word of the day by the way!!  )

catchweight wrote:Joe Louis on a thread about Brian Rose (or Provodnikov actually). I
guess there is never a bad time to bring him up.

“Did you see Rooneys miss last night. Shocking!”

TRUSSMAN: “Yeah but imagine Joe Louis was playing instead.”

The fight was what it was. A mismatched fight taken for a payday.  I don’t see why Hearn deserves any special praise or criticism. He did what you expect a promoter to do and cash in on the money because he knew that’s as good as it gets for Rose. Rose gets a beating but makes several times his normal rate.

I bring him up when he's relevant.........  

I'd have Louis holding in midfield.....Rooney is okay where he is..

Strongy, there probably is merit in looking at the way hearn will promote, Luke Campbell, Anthony Joshua, even kell brook as opposed to the likes of rose, whom I'm pretty sure he said he'd build into a northern attraction. Andrade required someone to beat down stop and look good against, the thread below "am I living under a rock" , shows how little promotional time Hearn put into the rose fight. Rose couldn't possibly refuse the opportunity of career high payday, and a chance at the weakest titleholder in his division. Does Eddie have the best interests of each in his stable? Certainly questionable, his stable is nearly too big not to have a few "cash in" fights.

Your problem is that you will now never be seen as objective on the topic.

Don't encourage him to go on about Hearn.......

It's about as interesting as reading.....Katie Price's autobiography......

Maybe we can now stop banging on about what a great 'win' it was for Tim Bradley when he scraped past Prov.......

I think it was more about Timothy winning a great fight, than beating a great fighter.

Nope, it was definitely chucked out there as a great win against the division 'danger man', mainly by those trying to justify ridiculously lofty p4p rankings.

Provodnikov being a great win for a Badley is news to me. My interpretation of the concensus was that he boxed a poor fight and made heavy work of it.

I think provodnikov will continue to be a danger man for fighters with little movement but he never reach the top end of the division. Bradley made it a hard fight if he had used the same tactics as against jmm he would have won easily

catchweight wrote:Provodnikov being a great win for a Badley is news to me. My interpretation of the concensus was that he boxed a poor fight and made heavy work of it.

I'd suggest you look at Truss' posting history for starters, in particular his thread about the US having the top3 p4p stars (the Ring's promotion of Tim to #3 being the catalyst).

Whilst I agree with Toppy that people on here did rate Provo...........Have to say when I called him a poor Man's chuvalo it wasn't meant as a compliment..

However I did say the fact he went on to win a title is a plus for Bradley just as Berbick winning one was for Holmes.

I still rate Provo, he only dropped a SD FFS which could have went either way. He was fighting a rangy fighter he had 5 inches height diff on him. As long as Chris had a good set of whiskers (which he has) it was always going to be a tough fight sytlistically for him (how many rangy boxers a Floyd fought Truss).

Provo will become an avioded man again, his last three opponants have ended up in A&E, Bradley was punch drunk for a few months after aswell.