England - played 2 lost 2 - we're coming home.

First topic message reminder :

So what went wrong?

So close yet so far, again.

sportform wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:

Ent wrote:Some of the squads may have some lower division players but whorl with serious ambition of doing well do?

They are balanced out by genuine top class players and main men for their club sides if they do.

Most of the Dutch squad wouldn't get in the England squad, and Rooney and Sturridge outscored all their forwards last season. The idea that the England team is full of players that wouldn't get picked anywhere else is rubbish. They certainly have a problem with clubs bringing in foreign players to build their team around, and a lack of young English coaches getting a chance to make an impression (no way of working your way to the top if clubs ignore the lower leagues), but plenty of sides do more with a lot less.

I agree. Take Robben and Van Persie out of that Dutch team and they are pretty average.

Question is though, why do German challenge every year? That is more about confidence, picking the right players and tactics/ technique.

They have better players.

Ent wrote:I'm not English but I don't see the problem in wanting to do well.

If you have 60 million people in the country, are a rich country and have a hugely popular and successful national league you should expect to do better in your national sport.

The success of our national League is based on the influence of foreign imports. In a rich country with any number of alternative outlets and opportunities to make money, the youth of today are unlikely to make football a priority when they can disgrace themselves on National telly to become a "reality tv star" or try their hand at singing in the X-Factor instead. There was that fad for people demonstrating street skillz where they balance a football on their heads then whip off the beanie hat they're wearing. Never seen that done in an actual match so fail to see the point of it really.

Also consider the fact that our obsession with "ELF n SAFETY" means kids aren't allowed to be competitive for fear of upsetting the "loser" and we're terrified of being sued because someone hurts a toe, it's not difficult to see why so few of our nation's children flourish. Those that do are often pushed aside in favour of establish foreign stars as the national League is all about WINNING WINNNING WINNING and not about striving to improve the fortunes of the national team by bring the youth through.

However, when born in conditions like we see in certain South American countries, it's not hard to see how these kids will fight and strive to get to the top

GSC wrote:I tend to disagree with the media pressure part. Shaw, Sterling, Barkley, Sturridge etc all came to the fore this season, hence their arrivals on the international scene this season.

Shaw realistically wasn't going to play barring injuries so he should've gone and played though.

Agree. For me Cole was always the number one left back. I would have took Shaw as Cole's understudy and left Baines at home.

https://twitter.com/MatthewStanger/status/480024006805180417/photo/1

Inspirational captain....

https://twitter.com/barneyronay/status/479997082896306178

Another gem...

GSC wrote:Key for me is cultivating a positive environment where players can come in be confident.

Rather than current where players look afraid to try

This stems from grassroots where kids are still kick and chasing the ball. The trouble is pundits, the media and fans still glorify players who do this such as Gerrard or Sterling vs Italy.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:We all know how we could have got out of this group. Defensive football and playing for draws. And we'd have gone out at the quarters and everyone would have moaned.

Roy could have picked older players and he'd have got criticised. Sometimes some people have an idea and just bend different things to distort information and push their agenda.

Totally agree. Sven played to our strengths and we got to three quarter finals.

The fact is England is a very average side to say the least and rightly leaving home early, unlike Spain its not a shocking result a well expected result, I will be surprised if they don't lose 3/3.

sportform wrote:

GSC wrote:Key for me is cultivating a positive environment where players can come in be confident.

Rather than current where players look afraid to try

This stems from grassroots where kids are still kick and chasing the ball. The trouble is pundits, the media and fans still glorify players who do this such as Gerrard or Sterling vs Italy.

This, coaches at the very start in this country are appalling. If kids go into football being taught the basics wrong then they're against it from the off.

I didn't want to be part of this fifa corrupt party of football anyway!

DAVE667 wrote:

Ent wrote:I'm not English but I don't see the problem in wanting to do well.

If you have 60 million people in the country, are a rich country and have a hugely popular and successful national league you should expect to do better in your national sport.

The success of our national League is based on the influence of foreign imports. In a rich country with any number of alternative outlets and opportunities to make money, the youth of today are unlikely to make football a priority when they can disgrace themselves on National telly to become a "reality tv star" or try their hand at singing in the X-Factor instead. There was that fad for people demonstrating street skillz where they balance a football on their heads then whip off the beanie hat they're wearing. Never seen that done in an actual match so fail to see the point of it really.

Also consider the fact that our obsession with "ELF n SAFETY" means kids aren't allowed to be competitive for fear of upsetting the "loser" and we're terrified of being sued because someone hurts a toe, it's not difficult to see why so few of our nation's children flourish. Those that do are often pushed aside in favour of establish foreign stars as the national League is all about WINNING WINNNING WINNING and not about striving to improve the fortunes of the national team by bring the youth through.

However, when born in conditions like we see in certain South American countries, it's not hard to see how these kids will fight and strive to get to the top

Not disputing this.

It takes poverty and hardship to create greatness.

However the riches can produce technical excellence.

Germany, Italy, Spain similar populations, wealth, footballing institutions - hell of a lot more success.

Ent wrote:It takes poverty and hardship to create greatness.

Every study into the matter shows this is absolute nonsense.

Lowlandbrit wrote:

Ent wrote:It takes poverty and hardship to create greatness.

Every study into the matter shows this is absolute nonsense.

Good and specific that,

Studies show blah blah blah.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Welbeck was very good against Italy. Very good. He played with an intensity that his teammates will have loved and think his withdrawal was when we stopped looking so dangerous

Jesus, this is how you rate a player, on INTENSITY?

He needs skills and intelligence, as do many of the others who took the pitch in both games. We are the Easy to Beat team for the serious countries. Thanks to the FA always picking the same players who've failed constantly. Welbeck did absolutely nothing at Man U and is starting games. Would he ever play for France, Spain, Germany or Italy? Gerrard and Welbeck are unintelligent players with no charisma.

Terrible team, bad coaches, lack of intelligence.

Lowlandbrit wrote:

Ent wrote:It takes poverty and hardship to create greatness.

Every study into the matter shows this is absolute nonsense.

Why are the French and Germans doing so well then?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:

Ent wrote:It takes poverty and hardship to create greatness.

Every study into the matter shows this is absolute nonsense.

Why are the French and Germans doing so well then?

Last trophy win in 96 and 2000 respectively.

Incidentally that was a mixed race side for France on the background of social hardship for immigrants etc

I already stated rich countries can overcome it with teams full of technical excellence.

DAVE667 wrote:

Ent wrote:I'm not English but I don't see the problem in wanting to do well.

If you have 60 million people in the country, are a rich country and have a hugely popular and successful national league you should expect to do better in your national sport.

The success of our national League is based on the influence of foreign imports. In a rich country with any number of alternative outlets and opportunities to make money, the youth of today are unlikely to make football a priority when they can disgrace themselves on National telly to become a "reality tv star" or try their hand at singing in the X-Factor instead. There was that fad for people demonstrating street skillz where they balance a football on their heads then whip off the beanie hat they're wearing. Never seen that done in an actual match so fail to see the point of it really.

Also consider the fact that our obsession with "ELF n SAFETY" means kids aren't allowed to be competitive for fear of upsetting the "loser" and we're terrified of being sued because someone hurts a toe, it's not difficult to see why so few of our nation's children flourish. Those that do are often pushed aside in favour of establish foreign stars as the national League is all about WINNING WINNNING WINNING and not about striving to improve the fortunes of the national team by bring the youth through.

However, when born in conditions like we see in certain South American countries, it's not hard to see how these kids will fight and strive to get to the top

I would agree that football is not accessible enough. The Premier League is hidden away on pay tv and games are too expensive to go to. I read somewhere that people who attend sports events are 63% more likely to try the sport and those who watch sports on tv are 27% more likely to give that sport ago.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Welbeck was very good against Italy. Very good. He played with an intensity that his teammates will have loved and think his withdrawal was when we stopped looking so dangerous

Jesus, this is how you rate a player, on INTENSITY?

He needs skills and intelligence, as do many of the others who took the pitch in both games. We are the Easy to Beat team for the serious countries. Thanks to the FA always picking the same players who've failed constantly. Welbeck did absolutely nothing at Man U and is starting games. Would he ever play for France, Spain, Germany or Italy? Gerrard and Welbeck are unintelligent players with no charisma.

Terrible team, bad coaches, lack of intelligence.

Take that out of context my man, well done. Although intensity > charisma

sportform wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Ent wrote:I'm not English but I don't see the problem in wanting to do well.

If you have 60 million people in the country, are a rich country and have a hugely popular and successful national league you should expect to do better in your national sport.

The success of our national League is based on the influence of foreign imports. In a rich country with any number of alternative outlets and opportunities to make money, the youth of today are unlikely to make football a priority when they can disgrace themselves on National telly to become a "reality tv star" or try their hand at singing in the X-Factor instead. There was that fad for people demonstrating street skillz where they balance a football on their heads then whip off the beanie hat they're wearing. Never seen that done in an actual match so fail to see the point of it really.

Also consider the fact that our obsession with "ELF n SAFETY" means kids aren't allowed to be competitive for fear of upsetting the "loser" and we're terrified of being sued because someone hurts a toe, it's not difficult to see why so few of our nation's children flourish. Those that do are often pushed aside in favour of establish foreign stars as the national League is all about WINNING WINNNING WINNING and not about striving to improve the fortunes of the national team by bring the youth through.

However, when born in conditions like we see in certain South American countries, it's not hard to see how these kids will fight and strive to get to the top

I would agree that football is not accessible enough. The Premier League is hidden away on pay tv and games are too expensive to go to. I read somewhere that people who attend sports events are 63% more likely to try the sport and those who watch sports on tv are 27% more likely to give that sport ago.

There is hardly any mainstream sport that isn't mainly shown on satellite or cable TV nowadays - and perhaps if it wasn't felt necessary to pay these namby pamby kissballers £50 000 a week to dive all over the place, then gate prices might be lower?

40+ years and very little progress made, speaks volumes and the fa need to listen instead of the old guys trying to stay in control/power.

We do have some good youths coming through but as Uruguay have shown we don't need world class players heck they don't even need to be fully match fit just accurately strike when it matters.

I seriously doubt the system will change.................too many old farts wanting to remain in control for the love of money or whatever.

As a youngster, I was discouraged from playing football by my parents. They bought me Fifa each year instead. There is a problem with getting youngsters to play football, parents don't get the kids out enough and there isn't well organised leagues. The coaching generally isn't up to scratch from what I've seen. Having all of the football on pay TV doesn't help either as well as the expensive premier league games, do more to get schoolkids going to games with cheap tickets.

However, this argument comes up every time. The team doesn't gel well enough for me, and whilst the attacking system is honourable, Hodgson should have stuck with his 4-3-3 with two holding players (Gerrard and Carrick) with a box to box midfielder (Wilshere/Oxlade) sitting just in front, with two wingers. Walcott would have been good on the right but obviously wasn't available, Sterling the pick to replace him there. I did say it from the start that it was too aggressive. There needs to be more of a consistent starting line up, if the team he started in the two world cup games is what he wants to stick with, then play that team in all the games where possible.