How to solve a problem like Suarez?

First topic message reminder :

Suarez for the third time in his career bit another footballer during a match.
The first for Ajax in 2010 when he bit a PSV player (Bakkal) on the shoulder and received a 7 game ban.
The second for Liverpool v Chelsea in 2013 on Ivanovic for which he received a 10 game ban.
And now on the grandest stage of all he's sunk his fangs into Chiellini.

What though should his punishment be?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Ayrshirebhoy wrote:d to see Uruguay stick up for him leaves me with a poor opinion of that country.

What about the England who stuck up for Rooney in 2012 when he was banned for 3 games at the Euros for a deliberate and intentional kick at a player? Did that give you a poor opinion of England?

My opinion of footballers in general is very low these days. The complete lack of humility from player, team and country in this instance is annoying me more for some reason. That guy tabarez resigning from his job because Suarez can't stop biting folks.......

CS just can't grasp the idea that biting someone is a completely deplorable act, be it on a football field, a street or a classroom.

The guys a a clown end of (Suarez) he has shown a complete inability to control himself and regardless of what ANY OTHER PLAYER does, it does not take away from the fact that he deserves everything he gets and more.

Anyone that actually loves the beautiful game knows what a deplorable act it is and instead of trying to justify it will be clapping at the punishment and stating it shouldn't happen again.

After that you can then start telling me about other players offences.

As for the team aspect, I've said it before but I would have personally been happy with Uruguay being thrown out of the World Cup for bringing the game into disrepute with there acceptance and excuses.

I talked last week about how if FIFA are intent on cleaning up the sport then it needs to be for all offences. "Serial biter" Luis Suarez commits a heinous offence, is rightly punished for it but then we see serial diver and cheat Arjen Robben commit TWO blatant dives in a single match..one of which enables his team to progress through the tournament.

Is anything to be done about players like him. My shock at Suraez's actions is outweighed by my disgust at Robben. Like Suarez, on his day, a brilliant player, but when he's not on his game, he's an embarrassment to the sport. On the same team you have a player in Dirk Kuyt who is infinitely less talented and yet displays all the attributes that FIFA could wish to find in a professional. Honest, hard working, dedicated footballer doing what is asked by his coach for the benefit of his team. Sadly Kuyt is never going to grace the cover of FIFA 15 game for PlayStation or Xbox but players like Robben will. If someone could explain the the moral ambiguity, I'd be grateful

Depends if you get massively angry about diving or not. I don't really. Especially when its a difference between exaggeration and a pure dive.

I especially wouldnt find myself more disgusted by a dive. Honesty and savage actions are different kettles of fish. And then to lie about savage actions...

The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Depends if you get massively angry about diving or not. I don't really. Especially when its a difference between exaggeration and a pure dive.

I especially wouldnt find myself more disgusted by a dive. Honesty and savage actions are different kettles of fish. And then to lie about savage actions...

But diving in itself is a lie, you're saying you've been fouled when you haven't. Anyway, you're right, I despise diving/divers but even more than that, I despise the fact that people are told to call it "simulation". B*ll*cks...it's f*cking cheating and lets call it like we see it.

Derbymanc wrote:The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

IMMEDIATELY before Robben dived!!!!!!!!!!!! He rode a couple of challenges and then thought "F*ck it, I'm going down here instead!" W*NKER!!!!

DAVE667 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

IMMEDIATELY before Robben dived!!!!!!!!!!!! He rode a couple of challenges and then thought "F*ck it, I'm going down here instead!" W*NKER!!!!

Why not? The mexican lad mis-timed the tackle, caught Robben, who admittedly dived. If he hadn't, the ref wouldn't have given it.

What I'm saying Dave is that if he'd have stayed on his feet he wouldn't have won a penalty even if it was deserved.

Like the myth that if you win the ball it's not a foul if you don't go down it doesn't automatically mean it's not a penalty

Too many grey areas that allow referees to make judgements rather than demanding that if technology exists (and it does) then the referee should be forced to refer to it in the event of contentious decisions....  

Referees should go to video replays to decide on contentious incidents that they couldn't clearly see during live play.  If a referee is faced with replays and knows the whole world is watching the same replays and seeing things just as he does, then he's pressured into seeing what is there to be seen, rather than having the option of interpreting something that is happing live and at speed.

Much too much grey space in refereeing that could be easily obliterated by more attention-to-detail footage replays

You can't stay up though cos sadly they don't get decisions. Matt Jarvis against Arsenal this year a prime example.

I have no problem with exaggerated falls. Defenders get away with a lot of nonsense still, and also they make a lot of little fouls on players that go undetected but can hamper a fast small player at full speed quite badly.

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

IMMEDIATELY before Robben dived!!!!!!!!!!!! He rode a couple of challenges and then thought "F*ck it, I'm going down here instead!" W*NKER!!!!

Why not? The mexican lad mis-timed the tackle, caught Robben, who admittedly dived. If he hadn't, the ref wouldn't have given it.

...and, no disrespect STELLA (you diving/cheating approving piece of sh*t) THAT's the problem right there!!!

By the way, he didn't mis-time the tackle, he planted his foot and Robben decided to let his own feet catch the Mexican's leg and then threw himself on the deck. Whilst watching in super slo-mo as Robben's legs splayed out behind him and he screamed in agony as he tumbled to the ground, I set an unofficial world record for the number of times I could say "You cheating C*NT!"

Yes, defenders get away with all sorts. If one is stupid enough to leave his leg out, then tough!

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

IMMEDIATELY before Robben dived!!!!!!!!!!!! He rode a couple of challenges and then thought "F*ck it, I'm going down here instead!" W*NKER!!!!

Why not? The mexican lad mis-timed the tackle, caught Robben, who admittedly dived. If he hadn't, the ref wouldn't have given it.

...and, no disrespect STELLA (you diving/cheating approving piece of sh*t) THAT's the problem right there!!!

By the way, he didn't mis-time the tackle, he planted his foot and Robben decided to let his own feet catch the Mexican's leg and then threw himself on the deck. Whilst watching in super slo-mo as Robben's legs splayed out behind him and he screamed in agony as he tumbled to the ground, I set an unofficial world record for the number of times I could say "You cheating C*NT!"

And why did he plant his foot? To tackle, I presume?

I don't approve of divers who don't get touched, just ones that make the most of a given opportunity.

I still have to laugh when you watch a game with a big screen and somethings repeated on it but the ref refuses to look at it.

In this day and age it's bonkers that we don't use a 4th Ref to watch things like that, the amount of time that's spent arguing over a penalty would be cut in half with the use of technology.

Diving I still say punish the cheating tw!ts after the game, would soon stamp it out.

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:The biggest problem with diving Dave is that a lot of the other federations now see it as part of the game. To me it's a massive problem but unfortunately it's only going to get worse as parents and clubs teach it to their kids until it's so ingrained it is part of the game.

You can tell nobody really cares as it's an easy problem to fix.

Also when's the last time you seen somebody try to stay on their feet in the box and win a penalty?

IMMEDIATELY before Robben dived!!!!!!!!!!!! He rode a couple of challenges and then thought "F*ck it, I'm going down here instead!" W*NKER!!!!

Why not? The mexican lad mis-timed the tackle, caught Robben, who admittedly dived. If he hadn't, the ref wouldn't have given it.

...and, no disrespect STELLA (you diving/cheating approving piece of sh*t) THAT's the problem right there!!!

By the way, he didn't mis-time the tackle, he planted his foot and Robben decided to let his own feet catch the Mexican's leg and then threw himself on the deck. Whilst watching in super slo-mo as Robben's legs splayed out behind him and he screamed in agony as he tumbled to the ground, I set an unofficial world record for the number of times I could say "You cheating C*NT!"

And why did he plant his foot? To tackle, I presume?

I don't approve of divers who don't get touched, just ones that make the most of a given opportunity.

Sadly, I'm sure you're convinced this is acceptable.... probably along with "I don't agree with breaking into people's houses to nick stuff but if they leave valuables in plain view with the window open then hey, why not?"

I don't agree with that. To use another analogy. If a woman wears a low cuy top showing her 38dd's, then I'll be looking, and will not expect her to complain.

Stella wrote:I don't agree with that. To use another analogy. If a woman wears a low cuy top showing her 38dd's, then I'll be looking, and will not expect her to complain.

If you're looking from across a room or across the street.... yeah, possibly you'd get away with looking.  If you have your face buried in her cleavage....nope, I still think you'd get arrested, regardless of how low slung she is in the costume department

SecretFly wrote:

Stella wrote:I don't agree with that. To use another analogy. If a woman wears a low cuy top showing her 38dd's, then I'll be looking, and will not expect her to complain.

If you're looking from across a room or across the street.... yeah, possibly you'd get away with looking.  If you have your face buried in her cleavage....nope, I still think you'd get arrested, regardless of how low slung she is in the costume department

As I've said with the mexican. You cannot touch and get away with it   

Stella wrote:I don't agree with that. To use another analogy. If a woman wears a low cuy top showing her 38dd's, then I'll be looking, and will not expect her to complain.

Looking at a woman's décolletage and deliberately cheating at a football match are not the same thing

DAVE667 wrote:
Looking at a woman's décolletage and deliberately cheating at a football match are not the same thing

Oh that's where I've been going wrong in Leering Class!!! Now I get it.

Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

Stella wrote:Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

No, nor did I miss his other dive or Vlaar taking a guy's head off but does that justify Robben's actions at the end.

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

No, nor did I miss his other dive or Vlaar taking a guy's head off but does that justify Robben's actions at the end.

Maybe? That's why you'll see a lot of players go over if they get touched.

Aaaaaargh, just because X happened, does not make Y acceptable.

Diving happens because it has slowly but surely become a part of the game, its reprehensible and is cheating (gamesmanship my arris,) We're going to have to get used to it though as the days of Refs awarding players for trying to stay on their feet are long gone

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

No, nor did I miss his other dive or Vlaar taking a guy's head off but does that justify Robben's actions at the end.

Maybe? That's why you'll see a lot of players go over if they get touched.

Like I said earlier Stella, that attitude is what's wrong with football. FIFA can't be arsed stamping out diving so people see it as acceptable but it's cheating plain and simple. You're clearly a diving "apologist" but I can't condone it and even if it's committed by a player from a team I follow I cringe when I see it.

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

No, nor did I miss his other dive or Vlaar taking a guy's head off but does that justify Robben's actions at the end.

Maybe? That's why you'll see a lot of players go over if they get touched.

Like I said earlier Stella, that attitude is what's wrong with football. FIFA can't be arsed stamping out diving so people see it as acceptable but it's cheating plain and simple. You're clearly a diving "apologist" but I can't condone it and even if it's committed by a player from a team I follow I cringe when I see it.

I don't like diving if the player hasn't been touched. If he has, as in Robben's penalty then I'm ok with it. I'd rather the game be played in a gentleman's fashion, but it's a little 'dog eat dog' isn't it. Owen, Gerrard, Sturridge and many more would have all gone down in that situation, and to be honest, I don't blame them.

That is exactly the problem though Stella, and the next time your raging at the geezer that does it against your team, remember that your happy with it.

Diving shouldn't be accepted but it is because fans as a whole put up with it and clubs don't tend to actively discourage it. Bad situation

Derbymanc wrote:That is exactly the problem though Stella, and the next time your raging at the geezer that does it against your team, remember that your happy with it.

Diving shouldn't be accepted but it is because fans as a whole put up with it and clubs don't tend to actively discourage it. Bad situation

If Baines had stuck his leg out, touched him, and Robben had gone over, I'd be blaming Baines. Not that Baines is good enough to get close to Robben.

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:Dave

I take it you missed the clear penalty Robben should have got in the first half?

No, nor did I miss his other dive or Vlaar taking a guy's head off but does that justify Robben's actions at the end.

Maybe? That's why you'll see a lot of players go over if they get touched.

Like I said earlier Stella, that attitude is what's wrong with football. FIFA can't be arsed stamping out diving so people see it as acceptable but it's cheating plain and simple. You're clearly a diving "apologist" but I can't condone it and even if it's committed by a player from a team I follow I cringe when I see it.

I don't like diving if the player hasn't been touched. If he has, as in Robben's penalty then I'm ok with it. I'd rather the game be played in a gentleman's fashion,  but it's a little 'dog eat dog' isn't it. Owen, Gerrard, Sturridge and many more would have all gone down in that situation, and to be honest, I don't blame them.

Therein lies the problem, to me Robben wasn't touched, he's left his trailing leg, deliberately allowed it to catch the defender's leg and thrown himself to the ground, it's not as if the player's gone in for the tackle and got the slightest of touches on Robben and he's THEN Ashley Young'd himself to the deck.

Stella wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:That is exactly the problem though Stella, and the next time your raging at the geezer that does it against your team, remember that your happy with it.

Diving shouldn't be accepted but it is because fans as a whole put up with it and clubs don't tend to actively discourage it. Bad situation

If Baines had stuck his leg out, touched him, and Robben had gone over, I'd be blaming Baines. Not that Baines is good enough to get close to Robben.

Robben's that bad he'd claim Baines had fouled him from the sub's bench

Players dive because the referees are to incompentent to actually see the foul, they know if they stay up they won't get anything. Take the Jarvis incident as Chris mentioned earlier, that was obvious and the referee looked straight at it and did sod all.

That's the main problem now Hampo, without actually using technology it'll never change. Players like Robben ruin games but what else are they supposed to do? If he doesn't do it, he'll get jumped on by his own media/teammates/manager and misguided fans who think diving should be a part of the sport and is fine as long as it's you doing the diving.

Never gonna change as it tends to work more in the big boys favour than anything else, and whilst I wouldn't go so far as to say it's completely corrupt it gives refs an excuse to give an extra foul etc to the 'bigger' team.

I don't have that much of a problem with diving and I think it gets picked up on way more than lots of other cheating in the game.
For instance I've heard Lee Dixon talk about good fouls, blatant take outs of a player. I don't see the difference between this and a dive, its premeditated and the intention is to gain an advantage for your team. A lot of times its just results in a free kick to the opposition giving your own team time to get organised.
Another example, all the cheating in the penalty areas. Defenders these days get away with murder, pretty much any set piece you will see grabbing and shirt holding, refs do diddly squat to stop it. In fact I'm not surprised forwards dive as much as they do to balance out the constant stream of fouls they are on the end of.
Cheating is cheating, why vilify one method over another?

hampo171 wrote:Players dive because the referees are to incompentent to actually see the foul, they know if they stay up they won't get anything. Take the Jarvis incident as Chris mentioned earlier, that was obvious and the referee looked straight at it and did sod all.

Bingo!

Stella wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Players dive because the referees are to incompentent to actually see the foul, they know if they stay up they won't get anything. Take the Jarvis incident as Chris mentioned earlier, that was obvious and the referee looked straight at it and did sod all.

Bingo!

So you think the solution is to do frig all about it and simply increase the other methods of cheating to even the score?

Brilliant!!!!!!!

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Players dive because the referees are to incompentent to actually see the foul, they know if they stay up they won't get anything. Take the Jarvis incident as Chris mentioned earlier, that was obvious and the referee looked straight at it and did sod all.

Bingo!

So you think the solution is to do frig all about it and simply increase the other methods of cheating to even the score?

Brilliant!!!!!!!

Hey? Just agreeing as to why players go over easy. A solution would be video replays, but where do you stop? As mentioned, defenders get away with shirt pulling, standing on toes etc, when a corner is being taken. Should we have replays for those incidents? I'm not a big fan of goal line technology in truth, cos it won't be ending there.

Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Stella wrote:

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Kicking another player's leg and falling over isn't a foul

Making contact to the attacker who's left his leg trailing intentionally to draw the foul is.

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Kicking another player's leg and falling over isn't a foul

It was a definite foul, inside the area which means penalty.

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Making contact to the attacker who's left his leg trailing intentionally to draw the foul is.

So are you saying all contact is now a foul?

No, do I state that at any point?

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:No, do I state that at any point?

It seems you are inferring it though.

No it was in regards to the Robben penalty as a single incident not in regards to all contact within the game.

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Kicking another player's leg and falling over isn't a foul

It was a definite foul, inside the area which means penalty.

No it wasn't, otherwise there wouldn't be the argument about it in the media.

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Kicking another player's leg and falling over isn't a foul

It was a definite foul, inside the area which means penalty.

No it wasn't, otherwise there wouldn't be the argument about it in the media.

Ok, I thought it was a foul, hence penalty.

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Stella wrote:

Kurt N. Jurqa wrote:Did Robben go over easy? Yes.
Was he though fouled? Yes.

Just because he dived doesn't take away the fact that it was a penalty.

Bingo!

Kicking another player's leg and falling over isn't a foul

It was a definite foul, inside the area which means penalty.

No it wasn't, otherwise there wouldn't be the argument about it in the media.

Ok, I thought it was a foul, hence penalty.

Hang on, if you think it's a foul, do you have a way of contacting the referees to tell then to point to the spot? How did you get that job and why didn't you call that foul of Sturridge and the one on Gerrard and why didn't you instruct the ref to send of Godin?

Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!

I'm trying to stay away from the discussion. I got a three day ban on another forum because of Robben.

It's a dive. Nowhere close to being a foul. The contact is so so so minimal that if it's enough to trip him I suggest he learns how to walk/run properly.