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Warne latest article - oof

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 26 Jun 2014, 11:47 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/10928664/Alastair-Cooks-captaincy-was-the-worst-I-have-ever-seen-says-Shane-Warne.html#disqus_thread

Well when Mr Cook stupidly gave that interview pre headingley mentioning Warne I feared he poured petrol over the fire, and well he has.

To say Mr Warne has sunk his teeth in would be, well an understatement. Although I think he exaggerates (for the purpose of causing unrest in the England camp, remember he is a member of the Aussie cricket team so its in his interests), I do think he raises good points
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Post by KP_fan Fri 27 Jun 2014, 8:10 am

Also, if I was an Aussie cheerleader, as the ECB thinks I am, I would not be criticising Cook. I would be saying keep him in the job because that would be the best thing for Australia during the Ashes next year.

when I saw Fletcher and Dhoni in the press conference after arriving to England..... go over board in their praise of Cook, he is strong and disciplined and a great leader of men...etc etc etc

these words from warne echoed.......I thought why are they talking like this ?.....and the it dawned....."Fletcher and Dhoni want to milk Cook before he is inevitably released"  Smile 

within ECB community "Cook is like the weak child in family syndrome"

every one knows he is weak and limited....but and hence  the father, mother , uncle / aunt / neighbors will all say good things...go overboard in praise and encouragement of his trivial achievements........
like he is made of Steel laughing
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Post by Nachos Jones Fri 27 Jun 2014, 10:18 am

Cook is having serious problems with his form and yes, it is affecting his captaincy. This has to be addressed soon but who would be the next captain should Cook step down? Broad is the standout choice as he is far more radical in his decision making than Cook.

Cook is being unfairly attacked though because of his form. He is England's best batsmen and I understand why KP_fan wants him gone as he is edging closer to overtaking his Idol's records.

Simple thing is, Cook may not be the best captain but he should not be discarded either, he has gone through poor patches before and come out on top. He will do this again and at only 29, will go on to break many more records and lead this England attack.


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Post by Duty281 Fri 27 Jun 2014, 11:16 am

Cook will come through, he always does.

It wasn't so long ago that he was dominating India with the bat, and leading England to a famous victory as captain.

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Post by jimbohammers Fri 27 Jun 2014, 11:20 am

Totally agree with Warne

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 27 Jun 2014, 11:42 am

I don't think anybody is suggesting Cook should be dropped, cos he's still our best batsman

But I do think the captaincy is seriously affecting his batting, and he's not really a natural captain, he's one who leads through his bat and making runs.
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Post by Stella Fri 27 Jun 2014, 12:39 pm

The worst he's ever seen?

Some of Ponting's captaincy in 2005 was mind boggling.

Warne obviously has personal issues with Cook, who wanted his old mate Pietersen out of the side.
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Post by wheelchair1991 Fri 27 Jun 2014, 1:40 pm

Stella wrote:The worst he's ever seen?

Some of Ponting's captaincy in 2005 was mind boggling.

Warne obviously has personal issues with Cook, who wanted his old mate Pietersen out of the side.

I somewhat agree with this and I think its a point which a lot of people are missing when it comes to Warne attacking Cook

Cook should stay as captain in my view

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Post by msp83 Fri 27 Jun 2014, 6:57 pm

Warne was critical of Cook's captaincy much before Pietersen's sacking. Surprised that people haven't had enough of attributing everything to KP even after Cook and ECB finished him off in international cricket for a collective failure of Cook's team.
The monsoon has been relatively poor in India this year. Has to be Pietersen's doing, has to be!!.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:23 am

Yeah im not denying some of what you say but since that incident warne has really gone after cook more then before may also be because hes in the aussie camp

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Post by KP_fan Sat 28 Jun 2014, 7:50 am

warne can have one of 3 reasons why he is ripping Cook publicly:

1) He thinks Cook is a great batsman and leader of men and a big threat to Aus in Ashes...so it's better to attack and break him now.
Really is this even a possibility that is crossing Warne's mind...or even Alastair Cook's mothers mind Smile

2) That Cook's ineptness as a batsman and leader is a gift to his opponents.
In this case Warne should keep his mouth shut and talk sweet and nice...and hope Cook comes to lead the next ashes also.

3) OR Warne says things as he genuinely sees them and makes suggestions that are  bitter but in the interest of Cook and Eng.
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Post by KP_fan Sat 28 Jun 2014, 11:04 am

Martin Crowe on Cook.....words different from Warne..but same message:

there is a BIG global conspiracy ...is what ECB and it's loyal supporters must conclude now Smile

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/755887.html

England and the age of denial
When a player like Alastair Cook fronts the press so often, spinning a contrived message is the only option, especially when vulnerable

Late on day four in Leeds, Mahela Jayawardene walked in to play the fourth session of the day. Of course, I am referring to the now-mandatory press conference, officiated by the fourth estate.

The Sri Lankan great was buoyant, defiant, softly spoken as always, and yet aggressive in his intent. He attacked Alastair Cook and England, virtually declaring the game over. He represented a smarting underdog about to create history. Sri Lanka had faced a bit of adversity and stick from England, and in emphatic style Mahela decided, while faced with thirsty journos, to deliver one more rousing knock.

The press conference has now become a part of every Test match day. It's a real treat if you are a journo to hear a player go off and attack someone. Remember the ugly tones from David Warner last November? One assumes it makes for a change from the normal spin that is pre-prepared and boringly delivered.

Mainly the fourth session is a time for the controlled, much-consulted-on public-relations spin, or the typical standard answers that are delivered day after day, match after match, by officials, captains, coaches and designated players.

These days the press conference is as common as lunch and tea during a Test match day. It's a silly game beyond the boundary. Yet unlike the play in the middle, which is adding to the history of the sport, the press conference, much like lunch, can be absolute contrived fodder. Or as Mahela cooked up, it can be just what the fourth estate is praying for. Apart from before and after the Test, why on earth, may I ask, would you need a press conference at all?

This over-indulgence is putting the players too often in a state where spinning a contrived message is the only option, especially when they are vulnerable. Take Cook, following the most extraordinary loss off the penultimate ball, who instead of offering deep insights about the state he was in after another stressful emotional week, slipped into filtered mode and provided the following almost predictable spiel:

"I have never quit on anything, always given my all, in every one of my 104 Tests. Sometimes I have done well, sometimes I haven't. It's the same situation here, and until someone tells me I am no longer captain, I am still here. I have got to work incredibly hard over the next ten days."

Whereas, if he didn't have to front the press so often and so fruitlessly, he might have been encouraged to say, "We have failed to produce the right result, end of story, and I, as the captain, am responsible for that. I need to get home and think what it is I am truly creating as captain, as it's slowly getting worse in achieving results, which are all that matter. Right now, at game's end, is not the right time to resign. But rest assured, I will return home and consider everything."

If Alastair gives himself up as cooked after a time for reflection, then give Joe Root the captaincy. Following his double-century and his continued improvement, Root is the very man to sow the seed for the long-term future

He might have gone on and said, "As I honestly displayed before this Test, I have things on my mind, and those distractions are influencing the way I am batting and leading. I have underestimated the last nine months and the effect they have had on my need to clear my mind, in order to play to my ability, and to lead this team in its hour of need. The next few days are vitally important for me to work out what is best for me and for the team. Good night, and no further questions please."

Instead, as he feels it is now part of the daily ritual and duty, he pored over the positives as they all do, and said he felt England had won eight days out of ten. All the while, the scribes in that room were probably thinking, "Alastair, you lost. Sri Lanka, led by a more inspiring leader, won the pressure moments, the important sessions, and with it the series. Oh, and your tactics on day four were up there with some of the worst ever. But we do appreciate all the extra copy you have provided."

On to the issue of the day. Quitting, resigning, stepping down, handing over are all the same thing no matter how you spin it. The only consideration is whether it's time to move aside for someone who has a clearer, more decisive vision, and if it is, then that clearly is the right thing to do. Why wait for it to get worse? Why wait to be sacked? There is absolutely no shame in standing down at all. There are dozens of examples throughout history when it is needed and has been done with honour.

It doesn't need to descend into the sort of tear-fest that closed Kim Hughes' rein. No, it can easily be done just the way Beefy did it on the balcony at Lord's, swiftly and with his head up, handing it over to the next one deemed to have a better feel for the moment, so he could get back to being the match-winner he was. Or recently, the way Andrew Strauss did it, knowing when his time was finally up. I'm not preaching without personal experience; I handed it over after only 16 Tests in charge, as the writing was on the wall. Stubbornness is not a worthy attribute.

With so much fronting up to the fourth estate, the overspin is getting in the way of identifying the real problem and finding the right answer. Trying to get through all these extra media sessions without giving too much away only creates the impression that too many players are in denial about the reality of the situation.

These are extraordinary times and therefore there are calls for drastic action. By next week, Cook should know what he must do. In that moment, he may well be happy to carry on. If so, hats off. But serious changes need to be made, otherwise a different opposition is not going to make one jot of difference.

Quite possibly, India might not be the best team for England to play against right now, for with a talented, spirited bunch, led by an inspired MS Dhoni, they are out to prove their own worth following a significant period of admiring a few true greats carrying the torch. India look ripe to unleash hell if England don't buck up quick.

If Alastair gives himself up as cooked after a time for reflection, then give Joe Root the captaincy. Following his double-century and his continued improvement, Root is the very man to sow the seed for the long-term future. It's bold and it's also a no-brainer. It worked for Graeme Smith and Stephen Fleming at a similar age and there is no reason why it won't work for Joe Root as well. It could be a welcome epiphany.

England, you are in a hole you aren't quite admitting to. Yet it's not due to the fine young, brave soldiers firing strongly in their early exchanges in the heat of the battle. Root, Robson, Ballance and Ali are showing resilience to the task. Continue that theme and promote Jos Buttler and Ben Stokes right now, replacing Prior and Jordan. In the meantime, Peter Moores must urge Cook to get forward and Bell to bat long, and Broad, Plunkett and Anderson to bowl five-over spells.

And let Moeen Ali provide much more of the real spin we prefer to enjoy.

Martin Crowe, one of the leading batsmen of the late '80s and early '90s, played 77 Tests for New Zealand
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Post by alfie Sat 28 Jun 2014, 2:21 pm

Actually a very different message from the compulsively headline seeking Warne.
Much more thoughtful view of Cook's situation and the choices he faces. And some practical suggestions for the future if he wants to continue in the job .
Not sure I agree with his suggestion of Joe Root as the prospective next leader ; but that isn't the issue for Cook , who will continue in charge for now , as long as he is willing to do - which , rightly or wrongly , he says he is.  I agree Cook does need to consider what is best for him as well as his team , but I have no problem with him carrying on if he is open to earning from his mistakes.
By the way , even though he had a shocker on day four at Headingley , if Warne reckons that's the worst captaincy he's ever seen he must not have watched a few Pakistan Tests I could mention...


Last edited by alfie on Sat 28 Jun 2014, 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : .)

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Post by KP_fan Sun 29 Jun 2014, 11:54 am

and now Ian Chappell joins the network of International conspiracy Smile

Indian captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni should send his Sri Lankan counterpart Angelo Mathews a crate of his favourite tipple immediately. And as a further gesture of gratitude, the BCCI, with the newfound wealth they'll inherit following the recent ICC "big three" deal, should offer to pay off all the Sri Lankan board's debt. That's how big a favour the Sri Lankans have done India on the eve of their Test series in England.

Not only did Sri Lanka beat England in their recently completed series, they prised open serious cracks in the host's "brave new world". The biggest of those fissures is right at the top: Alastair Cook's captaincy has gone from bad in Australia to worse in England.

Part of a selector's job is to recognise players who might be buoyed by the extra responsibility of leadership and those who are likely to be burdened by it. I'd put Cook in the second category - and his lean recent batting returns seem to confirm this theory. As such, he should never have been awarded the captaincy.

However, there weren't many other candidates at the time of Andrew Strauss' retirement (unless you count Kevin Pietersen and the England hierarchy obviously didn't), so Cook was anointed by default.

As a captain you have to admit to mistakes in judgement and quickly set about correcting them. By not admitting to flaws and addressing them quickly so he's not constantly being dismissed in the same manner, a player isn't going far. It's the same for selectors. If you make a mistake, own up to it and then correct it quickly so it doesn't become like a rolling stone gathering more and more moss.

I first harboured doubts about Cook's captaincy when the look of fear appeared in his eyes as Australia closed in on an unlikely victory at Trent Bridge in 2013. He got lucky on that occasion as Jimmy Anderson rose to the challenge and extracted him from the mire. However, his luck ran out in Australia, and the loss at Headingley this week displayed all the hallmarks of England's problems during the Ashes series Down Under.



A captain can learn a lot from his mistakes but other aspects of the job are inherent

Cook is not an instinctive captain and he's also ultra-conservative. I'd say the same about Strauss, except he had some qualities Cook doesn't possess. He had "presence" and he was decisive in his moves. He also led a side that was playing confidently and had all its stars at the height of their powers rather than on the wane. Nevertheless, Cook's indecisiveness - which leads to interminable between-overs conferences with experienced players - has a deflating effect on the team.

In nearly every Test in Australia, England forged a winning position with the ball but couldn't finish the job by clinching victory. The same thing happened at Headingley. The constant failure to convert a good position leads to players losing confidence in a captain. It also prompts rudderless performances like England produced during the match-turning partnership between Mathews and Rangana Herath.

A captain can learn a lot from his mistakes but other aspects of the job are inherent; unfortunately for Cook and England, how to correct his main deficiencies isn't teachable.

The India coach Duncan Fletcher supported Cook's retention and in doing so invoked the woes of Australian captain Mark Taylor in 1997. That's a poor comparison.

Taylor was a fine, attacking and instinctive captain before he hit his bad patch with the bat. Importantly, Taylor's captaincy remained highly efficient even when his bat failed him. Anyway, Taylor wasn't out of form in 1997, according to former Australia batsman Doug Walters; he was "batting too long".

This was Walters' summation of the problem when asked: "Think back to Greg Chappell when he was out of form," said Doug with a straight face, "he made ducks. Taylor keeps scoring 11, 13, 17. He's batting too long and everyone can see he's struggling."

Walters' twisted logic probably applies to Cook's current batting slump. And it's no surprise Fletcher pushed for Cook's retention. It's a smart ploy - any opponent would prefer to face a rudderless England piloted by a lifeless leader.

Former Australia captain Ian Chappell is now a cricket commentator for Channel 9, and a columnist

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 29 Jun 2014, 11:24 pm

Actually think that was a very good article by Chappel, some fine points raised especially about the aspects of being a captain and leader can't be learnt and are inherent 

Certainly something I've studied in my pe at a level was leadership, and some traits are just inherent, and cook doesn't have such traits seemingly
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Post by KP_fan Mon 30 Jun 2014, 8:09 am

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/756273.html

and the humor version......but not untrue
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