Ricky Burns - SPOILER

Just read that he got upset in Glasgow getting dropped in the 1st 20 seconds and getting stunned a lot throughout the fight.

Is this the end of a lengthy spell in the sport having over achieved against the odds?

He lost by more then the scorecards suggested in my view
He looked gun shy and backed up everytime he got hit, also he seemed unable to avoid basic punches which he should have telegraphed easily

I don't think this was a shock at all. Burns has been done for a while now. No disrespect to him but even the likes of Crolla, Coyle etc beat him now.

Yeah he does look finished hes had a great run maxed his talent been a legit world champed and a massively tough guy nothing left to prove should walk away have a feeling he will fight again though possibly crolla

Crolla would handily beat him I feel.

I think he probably needs to go out now. Should really have had 3 losses back to back now.

Was gifted a decision,was involved in a controversial stoppage (IMO) and then loses twice.

Hang it up Ricky, you have earned your retirement fund.

I agree just think eddie will feed him to crolla before he is done after the fight hearn was already talking domestic fights as a possible option for burns

Up to and including the Mitchell fight Ricky looked to be improving fight by fight. A shame he seems to have deteriorated so alarmingly since, as he was a rare thing in that he was approaching world class while being utterly likeable.

Is rather he retired, not quite on top, but not too far removed from it. I guess tomorrow will show us whether or not Crawford's success was down to Ricky's shotness or Crawford's class. Dis Watt mention his jaw in the Crawford fight?

If memory serves, he didn't stop mentioning it to be honest.

Burns finally put out of his misery.

Burns was always a weak 'champion' at lightweight. Benefitting from first Guerrero vacating the interim WBO title. Then Marquez vacating the full title.

Burns wouldn't have stood a chance against either of those two. Guerrero would've boxed his ears off and Marquez would KO'd him.

After beating Katsidis, who was never world class, Burns was hyped up. Beat another stiff in Mitchell.

But once the level of opposition was stepped up, Burns was exposed. Gonzales had him on toast, but bizarrely quit. Beltran(a journeyman) beat up Burns. Crawford picked him apart. And tonight Burns was hurt by every power shot.

Never got the hype about him and thought he was overated but the drop off has been alarming

Puts the crawford win into perspective with him fighting gamboa tomorrow

He always been a tough fighter but he's had a long career an all that time he spent boiling down to SFW and that jaw break must have done something to him as the fall off has been that bad

It's ok to call him overrated now, but he was meant to lose to Martinez, Katsidis and Mitchell.

Martinez was a very good win but Katsidis was a shell and Mitchell is....well mitchell

The decision to leave Billy Nelson after his last fight and take up with Tony Sims made little difference then.

I get the feeling Burns needs the money. I have no idea why he didn't take a gimme fight or two after Beltran and Crawford didn't go well for him. After getting his jaw broke Burns goes straight in with Crawford and then 3 months after he loses his belt to Crawford he's in an eliminator fight with an aggressive fighter with a good KO ratio for a lightweight.  Why the rush to fight so often when performances have been mediocre to poor??

As a world level operator there was a contingent around Burns who said he was too good to drop down to domestic level and fight Crolla.   If I was Burns' manager I would be rebuilding towards a Crolla fight.

Burns seemed a lot more open defensively and was swinging far too wide and aggressively especially seeing as he is a light puncher.

Don't know if the bad defence is a sign that moving to Tony Sims was a poor decision or if he is just god awful at fighting southpaws, his positioning was wrong all night and he was constantly in line for the overhand left.

Seems to be in alarming decline, won a handful of rounds in his last four fights.

I feel like he's lost the winning habit, wouldn't fancy him against Crolla or any other top domestic lightweight at the moment.

Seems like a nice guy and he's brought world championship boxing to Glasgow, which in turn has made the fans adore him. You could say he's done a lot for boxing in the region but I think it's time for him to be selfish now and forget about what he can do for boxing and concentrate on what he can get out of the sport, which for me is very little at this point.

Take the money and run, Ricky.

I think he's well and truly done now, that's four fights he could and possibly should have lost in a row, his punch resistance is going and he's become gun shy because of it.

strange career really ricky, looked british title level for most of it, upped his game had some great wins and seemed to mature into a genuinely good fighter, then just when you thought he'd found a new level he seemed to find his old one again. I suspect that broken jaw hasn't helped his resistance (or willingness to take shots)... but he was really struggling with gonzalez in the previous fight so i dont see we can put it all down to that.

Makes you wonder whether he got a few guys at the right time that flattered him, or whether its just one of those things that when you lose your edge (particularly so maybe for a fighter like ricky, who had no one great attribute, more of a workmanlike package) the fall can seem pretty sudden.

I think hes just a decent enough fighter whos results indicate he wins some and loses some at that level. His matchmaking under Hearn suggest they thought he was better than he actually was.

catchweight wrote:I think hes just a decent enough fighter whos results indicate he wins some and loses some at that level. His matchmaking under Hearn suggest they thought he was better than he actually was.

The recent poor performances and somewhat kamikaze match making all came under Hearn.

Hearn is a member of the illuminati, a secret group of influential people including Barack Obama, Rihanna and Roy Chubby Brown who control the world.

They do this by employing the mole people to control our minds and....oh I've gone cross eyed.

I would much prefer Burns to have had 20 defences of his WBO title against opponents I have never heard of than attempt to fight decent fighters like Crawford.

 For Burns Career, he hit highs that nobody thought he would and has been a 2 weight champion. The decline has been a bit of a shock and hopefully now he can sit down and have a think on what he wants to do.

@Strongy - You can't blame Hearn for someone losing in the ring, I'd rather he booked more of his boxers in genuine 50/50 fights than watch them in 80/20 fights. Think it's more telling for other matchmakers than it is for Hearn.

I think its a definite decline rather than him being shown up due to Hearn's matchmaking.
Just an opinion but what I'd say is that I believe Mitchell beats him now, whereas he couldn't before the decline. Just need them to fight and Mitchell to win to be proved right. I'm prepared to wait.

Burns looked liked he'd been running on empty since Gonzales. If he wants one more domestic show down with crolla fine. It'll be a good earner and set him up for retirement. He's had a great career, 2 weight world champ that excelled. His high output light punching style is the sort of style that typically results in early burnout. I don't think he's taken excessive damage, he drew big crowds, he was semi pro for most of his career, I hope he's enough put away to enjoy retirement.

The discredit of his best wins now that he's on the slide, pretty much sums up the fickle nature of boxing fans.

jimdig wrote:

The discredit of his best wins now that he's on the slide, pretty much sums up the fickle nature of boxing fans.

His best win being against a guy(Katsidis) who was a come forward, limited slugger. Would rarely had the ability to defend.

And Katsidis was done by the time Burns got him.

I'd say his best win was Martinez, first fight at this level and be performed superbly, plus Martinez wasn't a shell.

Rowley wrote:I would much prefer Burns to have had 20 defences of his WBO title against opponents I have never heard of than attempt to fight decent fighters like Crawford.

Eddie will send you a Christmas Card for services to blind loyalty.


Not everybody is in love with Eddie as other boxing forums show. Still Hearn is a Brit and this is a British board, not much chance of balance around here then when it comes to Edward.

The same comment as usual about other boxing forums, who gives a toss apart from you Strongy?

You moan at Hearn for putting Burns in challenging fights then you moan at Mayweather for not taking on challenging fights, which is it?

The world according to strongy. Hearn sends too many of his fighters overseas to lose. Froch is ducking a Ward rematch. You're little better than Waingro nowadays.

I don't want to get personal but I sincerely hope you aren't like this in real life, Strongback.

The world isn't made up of goodies and baddies. I think it's important you know that. This whole Hearn is the root of all evil thing is bizarre and perverse. He's just a promoter.

I have no opinion on Eddie Hearn to be honest, he doesn't really interest me as much as the fighters he works for do. I'd imagine many people on this board are the same.

Gerry, katsidis was a good win for Ricky burns, Martinez was a good win for Ricky burns, steam rolling Kevin Mitchell was a good win for Ricky burns. The point being we are talking about Ricky burns, he was a domestic level fighter, he maximised his talent during these fights, Ricky looked like a domestic/euro level fighter, but through shear hard work and incredible conditioning he pushed past this level, becoming a two weight world champion, with broner chasing him for 12 months. Yes the other Marquez would have been too much for him, broner too probably. But no need to rubbish his achievements.

Jmdig, everybody's a bum or elite. There is no inbetween. There is no "good".

Don't think anybody is rubbishing his achievements. I think they are merely pointing out sligjt flaws.

Katsidis for example. Is that a big win against a true great or a good name who has mixed with the best and lost.

The boxing hardcore know him from his fights with JMM, Mitchell, Graham etc.

He is an exciting fighter but nothing great.

He then beats Mitchell....but was Mitchell ever that good? Got wiped out by Katsidis in 3 and knocked out by a powder punching burns around the same time (or in 4 I think).

Has since beaten up tomatoe cans, battles with demonds outside the ring and don't look serious.


Martinez on the other hand is a very good win. A legitimate world champ who recently floored p4p Garcia and nearly went the distance. Top top win


The point is that you can pick apart his record in both ways.

Hell, some people on here to it to the very best of the crop (Floyd, Manny, Andre)....and even of the greats (Foreman, Leonard, Haglar, Duran etc).

Rowley wrote:The world according to strongy. Hearn sends too many of his fighters overseas to lose. Froch is ducking a Ward rematch. You're little better than Waingro nowadays.

Hearn sends too many fighters overseas to take a beating for mediocre money is what I have said.

I have never mentioned Froch ducking Ward.  

You're little better than an old crony thinking he is defending the site by sticking up for Hearn.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The same comment as usual about other boxing forums, who gives a toss apart from you Strongy?

You moan at Hearn for putting Burns in challenging fights then you moan at Mayweather for not taking on challenging fights, which is it?

Burns was matched too hard after Beltran broke his jaw. He didn't have to take the fight against a proper world class fighter in Crawford.

It's one think taking on tough opponents it's another thing taking fights were the odds are severely stacked against your fighter.

Mayweather is all about the '0' and there's nobody going to take that away one way or another.

Dipper Brown wrote:I don't want to get personal but I sincerely hope you aren't like this in real life, Strongback.

The world isn't made up of goodies and baddies. I think it's important you know that. This whole Hearn is the root of all evil thing is bizarre and perverse. He's just a promoter.

I have no opinion on Eddie Hearn to be honest, he doesn't really interest me as much as the fighters he works for do. I'd imagine many people on this board are the same.

The world is made up of a lot of idiots though.

Nobody's debating that mate ! Right, I'll leave you lads to it. Small matter of the World Cup to be getting on with.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/boxing/28070072


Eddie Hearn says Ricky Burns' career at the top is over

Boxing promoter Eddie Hearn says Ricky Burns will not fight at world title level again after the Scot suffered defeat against Dejan Zlaticanin.

Burns lost a split decision in the WBC lightweight eliminator in Glasgow on Friday night, but Hearn does not believe his career is over.
"I might be watching a fighter that hasn't got it at world level any more," said Hearn.

"But I'm not watching a fighter who can't compete in big fights."

Burns was knocked down in the first 30 seconds of the contest and looked susceptible to the left hook throughout the 12 rounds.
Despite offering more in the second half of the bout, Burns rarely troubled the Montenegrin and Zlaticanin took the fight 115-113, 115-113 and 113-115.

“He's in tears back stage, absolutely devastated, and more devastated than when Crawford beat him”


Burns lost his WBO title to Terrence Crawford in March, after retaining it following a controversial draw with Raymundo Beltran last year.
Hearn hopes the 31-year-old Scot will continue boxing, but concedes that his days at elite level are numbered.

"He's shown he's not ready to fight for another world title and that's the heartbreaking thing," added Hearn.

"If he says to me 'I don't want to be involved in domestic fights', then he's done.

"Boxing and competing is not all about world level, there are big domestic fights out there. It's all about desire.

"I want Ricky to fight again because I know how much it means to him and the desire he's got. I think there would be a huge void in his life without the sport of boxing.

"He's in tears back stage, absolutely devastated, and more devastated than when Crawford beat him, because he knows deep down he's too good to be losing at that level.

"Not taking anything away from Zlaticanin, he was game and he was fresh, but he's not a Crawford or a Beltran, he's a fighter with the pedigree that Ricky should be beating. And I feel he would have beaten him without that start."

Scotland's former WBO super featherweight champion Alex Arthur also believes Burns' career at the top of the sport is now over.
And he says the broken jaw Burns suffered in the draw with Beltran, which led to him having a titanium plate fitted, has been key to his last two defeats.

Ricky Burns was on the end of a number of punishing left-hand shots from Zlaticanin on Friday night

"Ricky was below par, he never turned up tonight," said Arthur. "I think the fact he's had a really bad injury has played a part in it, it's affecting his style, the way he performs.

"It's definitely affected him psychologically, there's no doubt about that, you can clearly see it.

"I don't think we'll see Ricky back at this level again but there are still some good domestic fights out there for him. Ricky loves boxing and I don't think it matters to him what level he's competing at, he's happy just to fight. I wouldn't want to go out on a defeat like that."

jimdig wrote:Gerry, katsidis was a good win for Ricky burns, Martinez was a good win for Ricky burns, steam rolling Kevin Mitchell was a good win for Ricky burns. The point being we are talking about Ricky burns, he was a domestic level fighter, he maximised his talent during these fights, Ricky looked like a domestic/euro level fighter, but through shear hard work and incredible conditioning he pushed past this level, becoming a two weight world champion, with broner chasing him for 12 months. Yes the other Marquez would have been too much for him, broner too probably. But no need to rubbish his achievements.

Katsidis might've been a good win for Burns, but did that fight really merit being a title fight?

Katsidis fought Guerrero for the same interim WBO lightweight title and was schooled.

But as both champion(Marquez) and interim & manadory(Guerrero) moved up in weight, two second tier fighters ended up in a title fight.

I wouldn't have called Hearns matchmaking kamikaze but theres no doubt Burns career was a bit of a car crash under him. I think his wins over a washed up Katsidas and Mitchell flattered him a bit. Gonzales and Beltran weren't supposed to be hard work. I think Hearn thought he had something better than he did. But when Burns had to consistently fight top contenders his form was patchy.

I think Hearn gambled a bit with him in the sense that Burns reputation took a big a hit when he got a bit of a schooling off Gonzales and I got the feeling it was a bit like a gambler trying to chase his losses. There kept being excuse after excuse for a series of poor performances and every time the next fight was supposed to be the REAL Burns showing up. He was pretty closely matched with boxers like Martinez and Beltran but a level below the likes of Crawford or Marquez or even Guerrero. Crawford was a mandatory for him so I don't think there was much he could do to avoid that and at the end of the day if you are going to beat Martinez and hold a world title then you should be facing the likes of Beltran or Gonzales in any case.

And financially he can still be involved in some lucrative fights with Hearn against domestic opponents. I wouldn't bet against him getting another title shot, especially if someone like Crolla or Mitchell can win the WBA joe ordinary title or IBF interim title or something like that.

catchweight wrote:I wouldn't have called Hearns matchmaking kamikaze but theres no doubt Burns career was a bit of a car crash under him. I think his wins over a washed up Katsidas and Mitchell flattered him a bit. Gonzales and Beltran weren't supposed to be hard work. I think Hearn thought he had something better than he did. But when Burns had to consistently fight top contenders his form was patchy.

I think Hearn gambled a bit with him in the sense that Burns reputation took a big a hit when he got a bit of a schooling off Gonzales and I got the feeling it was a bit like a gambler trying to chase his losses. There kept being excuse after excuse for a series of poor performances and every time the next fight was supposed to be the REAL Burns showing up. He was pretty closely matched with boxers like Martinez and Beltran but a level below the likes of Crawford or Marquez or even Guerrero. Crawford was a mandatory for him so I don't think there was much he could do to avoid that and at the end of the day if you are going to beat Martinez and hold a world title then you should be facing the likes of Beltran or Gonzales in any case.

And financially he can still be involved in some lucrative fights with Hearn against domestic opponents. I wouldn't bet against him getting another title shot, especially if someone like Crolla or Mitchell can win the WBA joe ordinary title or IBF interim title or something like that.

What do you mean 'even Guerrero'? Guerrero is many leagues above the European stiff Burns.

All Mexicans are the greatest. Any other suggestions are insolent.

Are part Mexicans, whatever

Burns looks done, was a slightly sad/depressing fight to watch really.

Feels like maybe he raised his game temporarily for a couple if fringe world level fights (Martinez still a v good win, can't take that away) but was never really world level himself and when really in that mixer simply got exposed.

See Strongy has managed to shoe-horn his bitter&twisted Hearn hatred into another thread...

Did you not realise Toppy, that these fighters are all absoposilootely World Class when they're with Warren, when they move to Hearn he sucks that out of them as it's that which keeps his suits so shiny.

There is no real need for over analysis or conspiracy theories when it comes to Burns. He is just not top tier. He is a very admirable fighter who has done well to get the absolute maximum out of his skill set, and in Martinez and Mitchell he has some decent wins. However he has not been exploited, mismanaged or ruined by anyone, he was never good enough to have a long title reign. He is a Clinton Woods type, probably over achieving winning a world title in the first place.

Given this the best these guys can hope for is a few decent defences, if they can build up a level of support in their hometown to make these lucrative they have done alright. Doesn’t matter if you have Tex Rickard and Don King jointly promoting these guys, they are not going to have ten year reigns or unify divisions as all the promotional skill in the world cannot fill the void in talent. Should add none of this is a criticism of Burns. I have nothing but admiration for him as both a fighter and a person.

I like Burns, always seems like a decent guy and while his performances of late haven't been great he's always had the heart (We all love a trier,)

A perfect example I think of grasping an opportunity with both hands.

I applaud Burns for taking a decent fight and no shame in coming up short...

Burns for me is an overachiever and a credit to himself, family and the sport..

Have a lot of time for over achievers..

Seems like a gentleman too....

Much to be proud of but me thinks it's time to hang them up and pursue other avenues in life..

Good luck whatever..

Much to like about Ricky.

Burns is still young enough. I think he should take some of the domestic opportunities that become available. They will pay well and offer the fans some good fights. I doubt hes earned enough to retire comfortably yet. No point retiring now and coming back for the money in two or three years times when you need the money and have lost your edge which is what happens with a lot of fighters. Hearn wants him to keep going but down a level or two and has indicated he has some good fights for him there. Some will say its trying to flog a dead horse but I think they would be good fights.

Willie Limond has shown that there's still money to be made if you're willing to accept your limitations. Got himself a Lonsdale belt long after he had the fight of a lifetime against Morales in Mexico. No reason Burns can't do the same if he's honest and realistic about his career.