Should Ireland Pull out of Celtic Rugby

First topic message reminder :

Looking at everything that is happening European Rugby at the moment and the attempts of the IRFU to make a success of the Celtic league despite the Welsh teams attempts to join the Aviva is it now time for the Irish Proviences to take a selfish approach and look at their own options for the good of Irish rugby. at the month it is clear that the Irish teams are the teams that are bringing the crowds and interest to matches in the Celtic league.

with this in mind should the IRFU look to contact the PRL or French leagues to include the Irish teams?

Is horse racing a sport?

Scrumpy wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Just google"what is a national sport",it's very basic.You do have google right?

You do have a return andspacekey don't you?'as typing' everything on the samelineandwithout spaceslooks a bit silly after a while,

Criticising someone's typing on the internet is the last refuge of someone who doesn't have an argument.

Is it?

I neverknewthat!  

Scrumpy wrote:Is it?

I neverknewthat!  

In fairness what you don't know could fill a large warehouse.   

Well done you managed a post that was readable.

  

Back on topic!

I believe there is an opportunity in Ireland to make Rugby Union the No1 National sport, so IMO setting up your own league and breaking away from the hangers on would be a great thing to do, who knows in a few years time Ireland could host a RWC.

There is no chance of rugby being the national sport. The GAA is way too dominant as it should be.

Scrumpy wrote:Back on topic!

I believe there is an opportunity in Ireland to make Rugby Union the No1 National sport, so IMO setting up your own league and breaking away from the hangers on would be a great thing to do, who knows in a few years time Ireland could host a RWC.

It would be a very, very stupid thing to do. There are too many clubs in Ireland with small fan bases and small catchment areas. Even the big clubs are quite small. What we would need to do is combine some of these clubs or expect fans of bitter rival clubs to start attending their new team; which is their old rivals who have become a professional super-club. Sound familiar? We'd run in to all the problems the Welsh regions have, but even more extreme.

I'd rather have four sustainable businesses than ten or twelve unsustainable ones, even granted the drawbacks of negotiating with other unions.

As for a RWC we're bidding for one and if we get it we're well poised to make it a memorable tournament.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There is no chance of rugby being the national sport. The GAA is way too dominant as it should be.

There's no point trying to educate a guy who can't work out how to use a Google search.

Notch wrote:if we get it we're well poised to make it a memorable tournament.

For once I'm in agreement with you Notch.

Really hope you guys get it.   

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

profitius wrote:What they should be looking to do is expanding the pro 12. The southern hemisphere unions are actively looking to expand super rugby with a view of growing it and bringing in a new fan base. The Pro 12 should be looking to do the same.

As for Ireland, I've always been in favour of sticking with the pro 12. Theres more money in other leagues etc but there are plenty of downsides to those leagues also.

The pro 12 is about to enter a new phase in its existance and the new sponsors and sky coming on board are a step forward. Personally I thought it was better when it was 10 teams but welcoming the Italian teams is good for the league in the long term.

do you think the goal should be to create a two tiered league in the future? would be great to see and extra scottish team enter or welsh if there was some way to to finance the whole the lot.

Something like that. Keep creating tiers and invite in any regions that want to come in. Eventually as those emerging regions improve and get competitive, conferences can be created. That would give the league more potential that the English or French leagues.

I'd also like to change the 'pro 12' name. Celtic league was good but I can see why it was changed. If the yanks come on board it would be called the Atlantic league or something like that.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There is no chance of rugby being the national sport. The GAA is way too dominant as it should be.

There's no point trying to educate a guy who can't work out how to use a Google search.

I avoid companies that don't pay their way!

Scrumpy wrote:Is horse racing a sport?

The sport of kings, scrumps!  

Nah, it's just a nice day out imo.

Scrumpy wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There is no chance of rugby being the national sport. The GAA is way too dominant as it should be.

There's no point trying to educate a guy who can't work out how to use a Google search.

I avoid companies that don't pay their way!

Must be difficult to post a witty response like that without using one of those companies' web explorer / laptop / tablet / mobile device / desktop / internet connection.

Scrumpy wrote:Nah, it's just a nice day out imo.

Is rugby, football, etc. not a nice day out?

Are you trying to tell me that Tony McCoy, Ruby Walsh etc. etc. are not sportsmen?

Scrumpy wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There is no chance of rugby being the national sport. The GAA is way too dominant as it should be.

There's no point trying to educate a guy who can't work out how to use a Google search.

I avoid companies that don't pay their way!

No need to keep yourself ignorant over principles. Try yahoo!

I'm not really sure what Ireland could gain form going it alone, I guess the only real thing they could do is split each Province in two and have 8 super clubs, but in truth the Provincial game has always been number one in Ireland so it might not go down well.

Wales joining the Aviva has always made a lot of sense to me, our football and other sports clubs are merged into England while Anglo Welsh games go right back into the black and white tv days.
Even before professionalism there was talk of our leagues merging, while the anglo welsh cup actually started in the 1996/1997 season, which predates the original Welsh / Scottish league.

But no for me the Irish should stay where they are for now.

Shifty wrote:I'm not really sure what Ireland could gain form going it alone, I guess the only real thing they could do is split each Province in two and have 8 super clubs, but in truth the Provincial game has always been number one in Ireland so it might not go down well.

Wales joining the Aviva has always made a lot of sense to me, our football and other sports clubs are merged into England while Anglo Welsh games go right back into the black and white tv days.
Even before professionalism there was talk of our leagues merging, while the anglo welsh cup actually started in the 1996/1997 season, which predates the original Welsh / Scottish league.

But no for me the Irish should stay where they are for now.

i think that is the big issue for irish supporters. the way i would look at it is the Welsh teams seem more than willing to jump ship but the irish teams should stay where they are and develop the league.

I do however understand that there is a president for the Welsh to join the Aviva, as you have said most sports in Wales already take part in English leagues.

Feck reading the rest of this thread, 1st time I've signed in here in months and its the same old crap about how the Welsh let everything down and the Irish are the only ones competing and bringing an audience. Simple point to the original poster, the real reason the Irish provinces can afford the big strong squads and keep hold of the players is the tax breaks afforded to your sports industries which incidentally you clearly can't afford as a nation or the UK would not have had to throw so much wasted money your way to stop your fecking government going bust, so before you get on your high horse about revenue try looking at the bigger picture.

Shifty wrote:I'm not really sure what Ireland could gain form going it alone, I guess the only real thing they could do is split each Province in two and have 8 super clubs, but in truth the Provincial game has always been number one in Ireland so it might not go down well.

Well the future is coming regardless of how many of us might want to 'sustain' the present.  So I see further organisational divisions and battles down the road, and whilst I've often joked about the idea of each Province dividing in two and becoming let's say Leinster North/Leinster South or Leinster Tanned/Leinster 'Pale'... I've joked about that as a solution to our reliance on our non-enthusiastic partners (Welsh, Scots, Italians) but yes, Shifty, like you, I do see it as a genuine potential solution to any further organisational fist-fights down the line.  
Ireland can't have its own League based on four Provinces...but it could form something viable with eight sub-Provincial teams.  I'd certainly prefer that as a solution to any future battles than to envisage an enlarged B&I league.

2ndtimeround wrote:Feck reading the rest of this thread, 1st time I've signed in here in months and its the same old crap about how the Welsh let everything down and the Irish are the only ones competing and bringing an audience. Simple point to the original poster, the real reason the Irish provinces can afford the big strong squads and keep hold of the players is the tax breaks afforded to your sports industries which incidentally you clearly can't afford as a nation or the UK would not have had to throw so much wasted money your way to stop your fecking government going bust, so before you get on your high horse about revenue try looking at the bigger picture.

Nice.  Now you look at the bigger picture.  
Ireland were shafted into paying out gamblers (non secured bondholders - of which I'm sure many had UK citizenship..certainly many of them had German passports) who had betted on a losing horse.  Pay the Loser was the order from on high to keep the very idea of the EU afloat.  That's what Irish tax payers have been doing... keeping the very idea of Europe afloat.  
In other words, by the time Irish tax payers pay back the 'friendly loans' plus Interest they've been given by both the IMF and the British Government, they'll have refinanced the remergence of Europe from the self serving schithole it landed itself in in the early Noughties - with its 150% percent loans, it's flush loadsa money propaganda and its secure 'unsecured' Casino gamblers who put money on losers and yet always came out winners.
Meanwhile too, UK gave money to Ireland to save its own bacon as the UK know only too well how much they rely on Ireland as a trading partner.  So you do your homework.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Yes. Please give it a try Ireland.

Let me know what Nigel Wray's answer was after all the compliments he's received from the Irish in the last 6 months.

 
If the IRFU/Provinces were able to put together a proposal that made Nigel Wray (and Saracens) richer he'd be the first one to get out the green carpet - whatever else he is he's a businessman and money talks.
In a few years time if Wray decides that Saracens would be making more money competing in a league involving the top six from England and six sides from the Pro12 rather than an all England league, he'll make it happen and drop the likes of LI, LW and Newcastle like a shot - same would apply if the Saffers decide to go it alone and leave the Super 15.

Erm...no. Wray wouldn't "make it happen". Just like he hasn't made the salary cap go away. He's one voice among many and not many follow him.

HammerofThunor wrote:Erm...no. Wray wouldn't "make it happen". Just like he hasn't made the salary cap go away. He's one voice among many and not many follow him.

To paraphrase an old football chant, Hammer... "It'll go, it'll go, it'll go." It - will - go.

The league needs a period of stability now to help it grow. I hope the unions involved will not let things go so late the next time they are signing up to the league.

I agree with Irish Londoner, I think that there is a chance that the PRL would want to make space for the top 3 Irish sides at least to join either the prem or some vision of a super-league. The provinces would probably make more money but I for one would hate to see it happen. I don't mean this to sound patronizing but I do think that it would be terrible for our three partners in the pro 12 and I would hate for rugby to be weakened in three countries in Europe for the sake of our teams making more money.

Intotouch wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner, I think that there is a chance that the PRL would want to make space for the top 3 Irish sides at least to join either the prem or some vision of a super-league. The provinces would probably make more money but I for one would hate to see it happen. I don't mean this to sound patronizing but I do think that it would be terrible for our three partners in the pro 12 and I would hate for rugby to be weakened in three countries in Europe for the sake of our teams making more money.

It's not up to the PRL though. It's up to the RFU. All the reasons pulled out to say why the Regions joining the premiership wouldn't happen, all apply to the Provinces joining it.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Intotouch wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner, I think that there is a chance that the PRL would want to make space for the top 3 Irish sides at least to join either the prem or some vision of a super-league. The provinces would probably make more money but I for one would hate to see it happen. I don't mean this to sound patronizing but I do think that it would be terrible for our three partners in the pro 12 and I would hate for rugby to be weakened in three countries in Europe for the sake of our teams making more money.

It's not up to the PRL though. It's up to the RFU. All the reasons pulled out to say why the Regions joining the premiership wouldn't happen, all apply to the Provinces joining it.

And just like what happened when the regions talked up moving to the PRL, it would only mean the speculation destabilised the Pro12, alienated the other Unions and eventually leave us in the embarrassing position of continuing in a league we talked down in public. Thats gotta hurt the league.

IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Only way it would happen would be the creation of a B & I League of some sort but that would involve the Jeff ringfencing which the RFU would probably not agree to.
Notch - early booking request - if we get it in 2023 can I have your spare room for the  Ravenhill games please ?     

Only way it would happen (from an Enlgish point of view) is if Pro rugby is ringfenced in the UK and Ireland (including the Championship sides that are fully pro).

Does anyone else think that a ringfenced (possibly franchised) two division GB & I league is the way to go long term? Good product for TV worldwide, the top PRL clubs would still probably dominate but there would be financial space to support rugby across the whole country as a two division pro league could accomodate northern clubs and possibly a fifth Welsh and Scottish Borders side?

My spare room! I have no such airs and graces

Notch wrote:My spare room! I have no such airs and graces

Particularly not since you already promised it to me.

George Carlin wrote:

Notch wrote:My spare room! I have no such airs and graces

Particularly not since you already promised it to me.

 
I feel a V2 meet coming on - 11.00 a.m. at the Crown Bar morning of the first game ?

Irish Londoner wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Notch wrote:My spare room! I have no such airs and graces

Particularly not since you already promised it to me.

 
I feel a V2 meet coming on - 11.00 a.m. at the Crown Bar morning of the first game ?

I LOVE the Crown. Just need to clear the £600 air fare with Mrs GC and I am there.
What could possibly go wrong?

George Carlin wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Notch wrote:My spare room! I have no such airs and graces

Particularly not since you already promised it to me.

 
I feel a V2 meet coming on - 11.00 a.m. at the Crown Bar morning of the first game ?

I LOVE the Crown. Just need to clear the £600 air fare with Mrs GC and I am there.
What could possibly go wrong?

Well you've got nine years to save it -so put aside £3 a week to allow for inflation and she'll never know   

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

Irish Londoner wrote:Does anyone else think that a ringfenced (possibly franchised) two division GB & I league is the way to go long term? Good product for TV worldwide, the top PRL clubs would still probably dominate but there would be financial space to support rugby across the whole country as a two division pro league could accomodate northern clubs and possibly a fifth Welsh and Scottish Borders side?

So another More Money idea? - More money for smaller clubs who keep their heads down in ambition terms and obey orders from the top - but "top PRL clubs would still probably dominate".  

Well, up to now, the top PRL clubs haven't dominated.  They might now go on and dominate in the immediate future in the new European competition - but up to this point, no - they haven't dominated.

But yes - the introduction of a GB & I League would give the PRL even more influence, even more power - and yes, they'd use both the increased influence and power to effect a pretty leak proof and bomb proof plan of domination.

So the answer from me to your question would be 'No'.  

A GB & I league is just another concoction to add more organsiational power to an English based organisation (PRL) that would see it dictate the future (or otherwise!!) of both rival Professional rugby organisations and indeed rival rugby Nations themselves.  
GB&NI is one Political Nation - it's for Welsh, and Scottish (if the Scottish continue on as part of GB) to decide for themselves would they just prefer to end the Pro12 and get into bed with their British countrymen.  It's not exactly a revolutionary idea - they all do it for the Olympics.  
Ireland is obviously the odd one out in that relationship and complicated in that the IRFU straddles two political entities.  Even Ulster itself takes in three Rep of Ireland counties.  Or in other words - a GB & I League would not fit into the comment you made above when you stated:
"there would be financial space to support rugby across the whole country as a two division pro league could accomodate northern clubs and possibly a fifth Welsh and Scottish Borders side."

A GB & I League would be a very complicated product.  Even the newly organised Pro12 is a very complicated product that bluntly contrasts League preferences for the teams involved with that of often quite different and opposite National preferences of the four contributing Nations.  It's not an easy boat-ride, as the continuing Welsh turmoil attests to.   

But a GB & I League would over time undoubtedly dissolve the notion of Welsh, Scottish and even Irish rugby as distinct entities.  We all know what it would be promoted as on the biggest media platforms - an "English" or "British" League to rival the Top14 French League.  
If an Irish Province lost out in a League final to an English one - the Irish would properly get called 'Irish'. "The plucky Irish lost out eventually to the much superior English team"  But if they won, they'd be publically re-cast as 'British'.  "The British League Champions are much more dynamic and creative than the French Top14 Champions and it proves how superior the English League is."  

We all know what the traditional score is on that one.

So let's just leave it as it is.  AP English League; big enough to be happy with itself -  and the DrinksAreOnUs Pro12 League.  There's room for both.

PS- If Scotland became independent, that might even allow them the enthusiasm to create two more teams, which might in turn allow the unhappy Welsh to finally 'go home' to an English/Welsh league. That would then give some opportunity for the Irish, the Scottish and Italians to relieve some of the complexity of the Pro12 by reducing the number of paricipating Nations.  Maybe the Welsh Regions should pray for Scottish independence

Jimpy wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

As many as New Zealand had before their WC I'd have thought. Revamps required certainly for some - but that's the idea, isn't it

SecretFly wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

As many as New Zealand had before their WC I'd have thought.  Revamps required certainly for some - but that's the idea, isn't it

Problem being you end up with a bunch of white elephants. I wouldn't have thought the Irish economy is strong enough for this burden.

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

As many as New Zealand had before their WC I'd have thought.  Revamps required certainly for some - but that's the idea, isn't it

Problem being you end up with a bunch of white elephants. I wouldn't have thought the Irish economy is strong enough for this burden.

Nope we've already sorted co-operation from the G.A.A. they have multiple stadiums in the country already with over 25,000 capacity so a few upgrades and we're golden.

Here's a good overview of what's available,that's outside Lansdowne Road,Ravenhill,Thomond Park and a possibly redeveloped R.D.S.


http://gaabanter.ie/gaa-stadiums-host-rugby-world-cup/

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

As many as New Zealand had before their WC I'd have thought.  Revamps required certainly for some - but that's the idea, isn't it

Problem being you end up with a bunch of white elephants. I wouldn't have thought the Irish economy is strong enough for this burden.

Haven't you heard the news, Cyril?  Ireland is rising from the Ashes again.  House prices rising rapidly again.  Irish people beginning to think of World Domination once more.  A new Celtic Tiger Cub yawning in the zoo.  We're an insufferably enthusiastic bunch when even a little chink of light at the end of a very long tunnel shows.

So in brief - yes, you're right - the economy probably would groan under the pressure but we don't care no more...again    

Yeah, I don't think people outside Ireland realise how many large stadiums there are in Ireland as only a bare fraction are used for sports anyone in the UK might be interested in.

The problem is many of these stadiums are old and some need renovation, but we'd be in a position where we have a few world class stadiums, a few smaller dedicated rugby stadiums and then several large stadiums that need renovated.

This isn't a case of building white elephant stadiums that will never be used again. Pretty much all of the stadiums that could be renovated are in use. It would be a shot in the arm for the construction industry, god knows it needs it.

I mean, before we start talking new stadiums or redevelopments here's what we'll have in terms of top class stadiums even before that begins. This is where we'll be even without the World Cup by 2023. Four top class venues capable of hosting major games and three smaller dedicated rugby stadiums for hosting pool games

Croke Park, Dublin. 80k and can host the Final, Ireland games etc.

Aviva Stadium, Dublin. 50k+ All Seater

Casement Park, Belfast- currently being redeveloped to 40k world class all seater

Parc Uí Chaoimh, Cork- currently being redeveloped to renovate to capacity 45000 stadium (24000 terraced). Will be finished in 2015.

Ravenhill, Belfast- recently re-developed to 18500 state of the art stadium w/ terraced areas and stand

Thomond Park, Limerick- 26500 state of the art stadium w/ terraced areas and stand

RDS, Dublin- Plans announced to redevelop to 25k all seater stadium recently

So there's seven excellent venues that could accommodate a range of games without an extra penny being spent that isn't already.... Its just a question of renovating the various other stadiums, which you can see on this list;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_Ireland_by_capacity

I definitely think it's very achievable. Reckon we would need five more stadiums between 30k and 50k. Very possible.

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:IRFU are bidding for a World Cup in 2023. Not a chance that the IRFU will do anything to annoy the WRU, SRU and FIR- or the RFU for that matter. If we're gonna achieve that we have to be making friends.

Who else are bidding? I heard something about France and SA being interested. Those would both be good. I'd much prefer a more 'exotic' location like Italy. With the World Cup being in England in 2015, one in Ireland only 8 years later would be a bit samey. I also imagine there would be games all over the UK anyway.

How many stadiums are there in Ireland up to standard for international matches though?

As many as New Zealand had before their WC I'd have thought.  Revamps required certainly for some - but that's the idea, isn't it

Problem being you end up with a bunch of white elephants. I wouldn't have thought the Irish economy is strong enough for this burden.

Haven't you heard the news, Cyril?  Ireland is rising from the Ashes again.  House prices rising rapidly again.  Irish people beginning to think of World Domination once more.  A new Celtic Tiger Cub yawning in the zoo.  We're an insufferably enthusiastic bunch when even a little chink of light at the end of a very long tunnel shows.

So in brief - yes, you're right - the economy probably would groan under the pressure but we don't care no more...again    

  Reminds me of the Tommy Tiernan bit:

Sounds like the stadium issue isn't much of a problem then    

I still would much prefer France or SA (Italy would be even better). Ireland 2023 would be just like England 2015, but on a smaller scale and with more rain.

Cyril wrote:Sounds like the stadium issue isn't much of a problem then    

I still would much prefer France or SA (Italy would be even better). Ireland 2023 would be just like England 2015, but on a smaller scale and with more rain.

This is rugby we're on about... if you want a holiday on a tanning cream tarred deckchair and fighting off German towel stealers then off you go to France, SA or Italy in 2023.  You have plenty of time to book now and get very cheap seats.

France? No, they had 2007. Prefer Ireland over France. Italy would be good if they're interested. South Africa is a possibility if they want it outide of Europe. Personally thinking, Italy, Ireland, South Africa.

HammerofThunor wrote:France? No, they had 2007. Prefer Ireland over France. Italy would be good if they're interested.  South Africa is a possibility if they want it outide of Europe.  Personally thinking, Italy, Ireland, South Africa.

That was probably the best World Cup ever though. The atmosphere was brilliant. The French may be in a mess in terms of their national side but they know how to stage a tournament.