England vs India - Fifth Test, The Oval

First topic message reminder :

Well this morning England have named an unchanged squad for the fifth and final test of the season

Means Plunkett hasn't recovered from his injury, Broad will be assessed with Stokes/Finn waiting in the wings and Sam Robson gets one more test

Olly wrote:

freemo wrote:they all have..

Vijay, Dhoni have done pretty decent in the madness. Rahane showed at Lords he can

Dhoni has batted well enough, but his keeping has been average (at best) and his captaincy has been not been good either.

Run out - thats two out of the nine ! Shambolic. Moeen won't even get a chance to add to his wicket tally   

I did think they basically gave up on Friday.

Can only beat what's there , so England will take it with a smile.

Delicious from England. Embarrassing by India.

Of the last thirteen tests between the two, England have won nine, a grand effort against a cowardly cricket team.

Should be able to pick up my £400 winnings tomorrow. Jolly good.

India's next series, they defo need a new opening partner for Vijay.....Gambhir has long been past it, Dhawan;s a slogger..Rahane maybe up to open, and get someone else into the middle order?

And its all over...

England win by an innings and 244 runs...

I can't even really enjoy this as its just been so humiliating for India...think I'm just glad they've finally been put out of their misery.

Well done though England...as they say, you can only play whats in front of you and they showed a ruthless streak for once.

Jordan's bowling figures are ridiculous: 4.2 overs, 0 maidens, 4 wickets for 18 runs...

Jordan 7 for 50..

But root MOTM for me.

518 runs for the series, ballance also got 500.. They also didnt bat a few innings.

You do have to admire India.

When they're bad, they really go all out and put in all time urine poor performances

mystiroakey wrote:Jordan 7 for 50..

But root MOTM for me.

518 runs for the series, ballance also got 500.. They also didnt bat a few innings.

Won't argue with that.

I just hope we can maintain this kind of performance when we are up against some decent teams. India have made us look like world-beaters. Lets see how we fare against stiffer competition.

From BBC live text:

Sunil Gavaskar, Ex-India captain on Test Match Special

"If you do not want to be playing Test cricket for India, quit. Just play limited-overs cricket. You should not be embarrassing your country like that."

Harsh, but fair you have to say.

dyrewolfe wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Jordan 7 for 50..

But root MOTM for me.

518 runs for the series, ballance also got 500.. They also didnt bat a few innings.

Won't argue with that.

I just hope we can maintain this kind of performance when we are up against some decent teams. India have made us look like world-beaters. Lets see how we fare against stiffer competition.

Yes it'll be good to see how we go against NZ and Aus next summer, tougher tests. 

First the ODI marathon in the lead up to the world cup

If we have any problems against NZ I will eat my hat.

mystiroakey wrote:If we have any problems against NZ I will eat my hat.

Well make sure its not a nice one Mysti, cos Boult/Southee will cause our batsmen serious issues

Jimmy man of the series - rightly so. 

Kumar for India, good start but tailed off.

mystiroakey wrote:If we have any problems against NZ I will eat my hat.

I quite agree.

Olly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:If we have any problems against NZ I will eat my hat.

Well make sure its not a nice one Mysti, cos Boult/Southee will cause our batsmen serious issues

They really won't

My England ratings


Jimmy 9
Root 9
Ballance 9
Broad 8
Ali 7
Cook 7
Butler 7
Bell 6
Jordan 6
Plunket 6
Woakes 5
Stokes 5
Robbo 4
Prior 3

Sadly I missed all the fun but that sounds like a dominant performance from England.

Hoping the corner is being turned.

Harsh on butler, a tiny bit kind on the bowlers remembering certain bits of the series

Pretty harsh on Plunkett too I'd say. Was arguably England's best bowler when he got injured

well I told ya.....Eng just have to turn over and India will roll over.

with a good bowling coach and positive leadership  atleast one of captain / coach must have positive test match temperament.....India could be much better..not a world beater...but not the listless pathetic show that would put even a FC side to shame.


To Eng--> I would say well done , congratulations...don't let these wins get to the head......that they lost a test to a side like this and a series to SL....is what they must use as benchmark from this summer to improve upon.

I think Eng's weakness is in their batting.........Robson, Ali are not test class.....Ballance would be found out sooner he is an averaging 35-40 type batsmen over a period of time IMO.......that leaves Root, Cook and Bell a 3 good test match batsmen.
Butler's batting yet to be tested......he will average 35ish which is OK for WK....but then his WKeeping must hold up.

Eng's bowling riches are good.....Stokes, Plunket, Jordan, Woakes, Finn as backup to Braod and Anderson.
and that they all can bat with the exception of Finn...kinda allows them to carry Ali and another new opener should Ali continue to pick some wickets ( like 2 per test is also OK)

Feel sorry for Dhoni.... ok he didn't bat keep brilliantly, but he stood up with the bat...fought hard to negate his usual attacking self, has the worst technique for english conditions, but batted beautifully, and couldn't find anyone else to stay with him, he can keep his head high, but the others were pretty pathetic.

Probably fair, KP fan, though if Robson gets his head right and works on a couple of flaws he could do it. Ali looks like a likely all-round spinner which is handy, but not a batsmen. Ballance is better than you think but let's see him and Buttler vs a scarier attack

ChequeredJersey wrote:Probably fair, KP fan, though if Robson gets his head right and works on a couple of flaws he could do it. Ali looks like a likely all-round spinner which is handy, but not a batsmen. Ballance is better than you think but let's see him and Buttler vs a scarier attack

Look I believe in making early calls and so I put my neck out on  Ballance...when after 10 more tests you look at ballance's average....it would have dropped to 45ish and on it's way down.

He just drags everything to legside with a very strong bottom left hand.... which other wise he should be playing straight or on the off
He does not have a straight bat even in defense.
A good bowling side or even this Indian bowling attack under a good coach could make him sweat.

And mark my words...any one does not have a strong straight defense....does not average more than 40 in tests ( generally speaking)

and those 3...Root, Cook, and Bell....look at their defense when the defend...that is what makes them test class sustainable over a period of time.

Robson.....he doesn't know his off stump...elementary but make or break for any opener.
and the best English opener with a solid defense, patience and reasonably good feel for his of stump in recent times has been Compton...
But Eng can afford trial and error with opener as they have remaining positions settled for now

I agree that we have been harsh on Compton. And Carberry too

Probably harsh on Compton, not really Carberry. Anyways those guys like KP are the past now, we've got to be looking to the future

I think Carberry was treated harshly when you consider Australia were running riot when he played. Compton played against weaker attacks then Carberry.

Who's in the frame for the opener's position. I suspect Robson will be given the winter to work on his game and will be taken to the West Indies. It'd be wise to pick another opener as well for the tour, possibly Alex Hales?

Carberry averaged below 30, fielded horribly and then threw his toys out the pram when he was dropped. Being the one of the best of an awful bunch doesn't make you good enough (as his average this season in division two reflects)

Hales, Lyth, Robson are the names in the frame I'd suggest. Shame Varun Chopra picked this season to have his worst in half a decade as he could've been in contention

Lees as well at Yorkshire, could have sworn I saw a Yorkshire fan say on here that Lyth was their 3rd best opener(behind Root and Lees).

If you dont pick Hales on current form you won't ever

Think one of the pleasing things from this series has been the seam bowling (behind Broad/Anderson)

With 17 tests in 10 months post world cup, we're going to need to rotate so we don't kill our seamers, so its good that Plunkett, Jordan, Woakes and Stokes have all bowled well and picked up wickets at varying points. And with a resurgent Finn waiting in the wings, we've got options behind the big two.

India were so pathetic in the last part of the series that it's very difficult to know what to make of England. Main pluses for England - and there are a few - are:
1. The return of something like form by Cook in both batting and captaincy;
2. Ballance - good pick and has nailed down number 3
3. Root - deserves praise for his adaptability almost as much as his runs;
4. Anderson and Broad - fast becoming England's most lethal-ever opening pair;
5. Buttler - A fast-scoring big-hitter who was good enough to play at a more-measured Test match pace.

Minuses:
1. Robson - probably not going to be the answer .Ditto Compton and Carberry, alas
2. Woakes and Jordan - not really Test class. Expect Plunkett and Finn to be selected ahead of them from now on
3. Moeen Ali - Battling 100 but then not such good batting. Still not that convinced about his bowling. Is he going to run through decent Test teams ?

Stick some series ratings

Cook: 6 Tale of 2 halves this series. Took flak the first 2 tests for bat and captaincy, led from the front after.
Robson: 3 His judgement outside off stump was ruthlessly exposed multiple times. Faces a nervous wait to see if hes picked again.
Ballance: 9 Dug in at 3, after typically short opening partnerships. Looks like a potential star.
Bell: 5 Scored over half his runs in 1 innings. Might be the next veteran to go if his form doesn't pick up.
Root: 10 Made a mockery of the decision to put him up top as he piled up the runs at 5
Ali: 7 Turned into a prolific wicket taking spinner, but developed a weakness to the short ball.
Buttler: 7 Few iffy moments with the gloves, but was as advertised with the bat
Woakes: 6 Bowled decently, but you get the impression he'd struggle to get good players out consistently.
Jordan: 5 Looked as though the test arena was a bit too big for him at present, radar lacking. Has the knack of taking wickets like Finn did though.
Broad: 8 Backed up Jimmy with the ball well. England will need to wrap him in cotton wool between games next year. Retiring from ODIs might be an option.
Anderson: 9 In English conditions, only Steyn's a better bowler. Hard to see England having any chance in the Ashes without him.
Prior: 2 Never looked fit or in form with gloves or ball. May well be the last we see of him for England.
Stokes: 4 Decent with the ball, no batting form to speak of.
Plunkett: 4 Overdid the short stuff a little bit.