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Is Gennady Golovkin overrated ???

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mobilemaster8
bellchees
Hammersmith harrier
milkyboy
John Bloody Wayne
Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake
Dipper Brown
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kingraf
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Mr Bounce
TopHat24/7
88Chris05
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 11:25 am

This guy seems to have the ability to dominate the sport................However he is in some lists as high as 3..........Apparently he's already cleaned out the 168 division as well 160..............The guy has beaten Stevens, Geale and Macklin who are all about as dangerous as a wet towel.......and he's 32/33 years old....

The guy has never fought anyone ducked or not.............

He looks impressive but are people getting ahead of themselves...Who should know better...

He's being lauded for beating stiffs....When other fighters are beating better opponents and getting trashed.....Due to being humble no doubt !!

Overrated.........You betcha he is for now !!....But who knows ??


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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Sep 2014, 11:37 am

Best win was Rosado

was lucky against Stevens. Stevens gave him kittens that night

Claims to be ducked but he himself has ducked fighters.

undecided TRUSS.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 11:45 am

Not diminishing him as a fighter......He's looked good.......

Just hasn't beaten anyone yet apart from sloppy seconds/thirds....

Fight it amusing this guy is being lauded for beating stiffs...Whilst other fighters get hammered for it...

Cotto got no credit for Martinez who is still a better victory than anything this guy has beat..

It's not a GGG bashing thread.............Just a reality check.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Sep 2014, 11:56 am

Apparently James Kirkland side stepped GGG for Rosado which makes no sense.

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 11:59 am

Rated as high as three, Truss? Pound for pound, you mean? Can't say I've even seen him crack anyone's top ten yet, never mind top three!

I think people are raving more about his potential and all-round talent if he gets a chance to show them against the best of the best, rather than getting carried away by what he's done so far. Guys like Macklin, Rosado, Geale and Ishida aren't from the highest plate but it's the way he's been beating them which marks him out as being a bit special. Macklin beat Sturm in Germany in a lot of people's eyes (mine included) and gave Martinez a tough examination before being taken out late, but got absolutely trounced by Golovkin inside three. Geale got a well-deserved decision over Sturm in an excellent fight and only lost by a slither against Barker, who himself gave Martinez a decent argument, but again Golovkin just hammered him with contempt. Rosado had no chance against GGG but then was able to compete more or less on equal terms with Quillin. And so it goes on and on like that.

The fact that he's been dominating these guys in such a way naturally makes people think that, if he gets the opportunity, he'll be able to do the business at a higher level as well. Tends to work like that.

There are guys out there who have been getting a harder time than Golovkin when it comes to fighting second-raters, I agree there, but I think that's becasue people can see that in their cases it's usually by their own choice, whereas Golovkin is seemingly only continuing to fight that type of opponent because the big boys at 160 haven't wanted to know, which has left his hands tied a little with regards to who he fights. Appreciate that some, for whatever reason, like to say that there's been no avoidance on the part of guys such as Martinez, Cotto, Sturm, Quillin etc when it comes to Golovkin, but there's a hell of a lot more evidence to suggest that they've been very happy to swerve him, which I think they have been doing and will probably continue to do.

I think you need to draw a line between Golovkin's record as a professional so far and his all-round style and potential. I think most people are getting giddy about the latter rather than the former.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 12:01 pm

I saw him in a top 3..............On some Boxing website...........Then again I think they had that flyweight at 2.......So enough said really...

He's in more Top 5/10 lists than not.............

I think he has great potential but he's almost being hyped to 86-Tyson levels..

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Sep 2014, 12:49 pm

Well young Mike fought all manner of dross on his way up and he was hyped to the gills for the manner in which he went about his job....no different to Golovkin.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Sep 2014, 12:57 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Well young Mike fought all manner of dross on his way up and he was hyped to the gills for the manner in which he went about his job....no different to Golovkin.

Mike Tyson became undisputed heavyweight champion so not the same.

GGG still has to face the big names at the top like Tyson did.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:00 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Rated as high as three, Truss? Pound for pound, you mean? Can't say I've even seen him crack anyone's top ten yet, never mind top three!


Classic Truss, then.

Wouldn't have him in my Top 10 but he has the potential to make Top 5 if he gets the fights as he's looked superb beating half decent opposition, with only one really troubling him at all - and everyone's allowed 1 bogey fighter.

Looking forward to seeing how his career pans out, but am yet to see a sane reason to have him Top 10 p4p.

[also, beating a crippled Martinez is not better than anything GGG has done]

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:03 pm

Also, this is the website that had the Fly at #2:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=pound

GGG not only doesn't make Top 3, he's not in their Top 10 or even their "Five More Who Could Easily Be Here". He's the next category down from that - "Five for the Future", which pretty much accords with most people's opinions of him.

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:06 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Well young Mike fought all manner of dross on his way up and he was hyped to the gills for the manner in which he went about his job....no different to Golovkin.

Mike Tyson became undisputed heavyweight champion so not the same.

GGG still has to face the big names at the top like Tyson did.
The problem being that no-one seems prepared to fight him so he has to fight less than stellar opposition to keep himself ticking over. If they did we'd see how he'd fare against them and thus end the is he over-hyped argument until someone else decides that all his opponents are rubbish and wouldn't have lasted four rounds with the fighters from way back when

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:12 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Well young Mike fought all manner of dross on his way up and he was hyped to the gills for the manner in which he went about his job....no different to Golovkin.

Mike Tyson became undisputed heavyweight champion so not the same.

GGG still has to face the big names at the top like Tyson did.
The problem being that no-one seems prepared to fight him so he has to fight less than stellar opposition to keep himself ticking over. If they did we'd see how he'd fare against them and thus end the is he over-hyped argument until someone else decides that all his opponents are rubbish and wouldn't have lasted four rounds with the fighters from way back when

Whether they are ducking him or not...........He has to prove himself.....You can't rank him as a top p4per on potential....


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Post by Mr Bounce Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:16 pm

Where is this "Stellar Opposition" then? Not his fault if nobody from the MW division will fight him. Quillin ran away, Martinez was taken to town by Cotto, who is waiting on a big payday, Geale's been destroyed already, Sturm has no title and it's unlikely that he would want the fight. Murray's not top-drawer and Soliman is a poor sell. Anyone else? And why should he move up?

PS I agree he mneeds to fight a name, but they all don't want to know. Potentially great; just good right now.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:19 pm

I'm saying you can't rank a guy that high on potential with no meat to back it up....

I've seen plenty of future greats getting slapped..............I thought Breland would rule for years..

I think he's got it...........But he has to prove it...............and If he's ducked...Tough s**t..

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Well young Mike fought all manner of dross on his way up and he was hyped to the gills for the manner in which he went about his job....no different to Golovkin.

Mike Tyson became undisputed heavyweight champion so not the same.

GGG still has to face the big names at the top like Tyson did.
The problem being that no-one seems prepared to fight him so he has to fight less than stellar opposition to keep himself ticking over. If they did we'd see how he'd fare against them and thus end the is he over-hyped argument until someone else decides that all his opponents are rubbish and wouldn't have lasted four rounds with the fighters from way back when

Whether they are ducking him or not...........He has to prove himself.....You can't rank him as a top p4per on potential....

Nor can you dismiss him out of hand given the manner he's dealt with his opposition thus far. Anyway you're saying he has to prove himself and I'm saying he can't as the best guys seemingly don't want to fight him. Bit of a Catch-22 for the lad.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:21 pm

Who is dismissing him ??


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Post by Guest Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:24 pm

You've already dismissed his wins over Macklin, Geale etc but said he looks impressive. Make you're mind up...

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm saying you can't rank a guy that high on potential with no meat to back it up....


Who? WHO is ranking him 'that high'??

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:38 pm

His power is immense.

and will trouble anyone. For me he is a new Jeff Lacy. Hyped but doing the biz in the ring until he met Joe of course.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:50 pm

No.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 22 Sep 2014, 1:58 pm

I haven't seen anyone rate Golovkin as highly (not that those lists mean anything).

His potential looks limitless, though. I think that's the reason people are so excited about him (plus he's damn exciting).


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 2:22 pm

DAVE667 wrote:You've already dismissed his wins over Macklin, Geale etc but said he looks impressive. Make you're mind up...

I said he has huge potential...................Or are you stupid.

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Post by kingraf Mon 22 Sep 2014, 2:57 pm

If GGG fights at 154, will the WBC allow him to fight Floyd for the 147 title as well?

Anyway, he's exciting, knocks people out cold, and can't speak a lick of English. Of course people are gonna love him. Will some crown him already? Of course, but thats how sports work. An athlete comes along and makes people who should know better get all giddy inside. That's not a bad thing.
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Post by Diamond in the rough Mon 22 Sep 2014, 4:30 pm

He's ranked 7 on espn 1 ahead of klitchko amazingly

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 22 Sep 2014, 4:44 pm

I won't knock anyone for enthusiasm. He's riding on the crest of a wave of hyperbole at the moment but he's bowling over every challenge that comes his way. People said Geale would be his toughest test and he wiped him out in 3.

He'll be left out in the cold for a while with Cotto eyeing a super fight, Chavez Jr, Canelo otherwise occupied and Ward (well, who knows what Ward is up to?). In the meantime he'll keep bashing up the level of opposition below and adding to his KO artist opposition.

Also, I love his limited English! He's like a murderous Borat.

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 22 Sep 2014, 4:45 pm

'adding to his KO artist reputation'*

I guess my English isn't so stellar either.

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Post by Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake Mon 22 Sep 2014, 5:01 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

was lucky against Stevens. Stevens gave him kittens that night


I'll have an ounce of whatever you're smoking. Stevens was down in the 2nd and was a miracle he got up then TKO'd in the 8th when his corner waved it off. Punch stats were

Golovkin

Thrown = 794

Landed = 293

Stevens

Thrown = 303

Landed = 97


I'm assuming Gatti gave Mayweather kittens too? Shocked

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Post by kingraf Mon 22 Sep 2014, 5:06 pm

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

was lucky against Stevens. Stevens gave him kittens that night


I'll have an ounce of whatever you're smoking. Stevens was down in the 2nd and was a miracle he got up then TKO'd in the 8th when his corner waved it off. Punch stats were

Golovkin

Thrown = 794

Landed = 293

Stevens

Thrown = 303

Landed = 97


I'm assuming Gatti gave Mayweather kittens too? Shocked

Im still trying to figure out what kittens means. I think it's like saying he gave him some trouble, but not much. Maybe GGG gave Stevens Lions? Or Bengalí tigers?
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Post by John Bloody Wayne Mon 22 Sep 2014, 8:25 pm

I'm trying to find a home for a kitten as it happens.

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Post by milkyboy Mon 22 Sep 2014, 8:40 pm

Dipper Brown wrote: He's like a murderous Borat.

He should fight in a mankini, he needs a sales gimmick. Clearly starching all your opponents is no longer enough to make a name in boxing.... Starching them while wearing a mankini might do the trick

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Post by hazharrison Mon 22 Sep 2014, 8:41 pm

One day he might be as tough as this guy:

https://vine.co/v/O7nOzYZWU2Z

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 22 Sep 2014, 9:39 pm

One things for sure he'll never be spoken of in the same breath as that man as far as talent, record and legacy goes.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 22 Sep 2014, 9:41 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:One things for sure he'll never be spoken of in the same breath as that man as far as talent, record and legacy goes.

LOL

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Post by bellchees Mon 22 Sep 2014, 10:14 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Best win was Rosado

was lucky against Stevens. Stevens gave him kittens that night

Claims to be ducked but he himself has ducked fighters.

undecided TRUSS.

Stevens was schooling him right up until he lost 7 of the 8 rounds and got stopped.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 22 Sep 2014, 10:19 pm

bellchees wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Best win was Rosado

was lucky against Stevens. Stevens gave him kittens that night

Claims to be ducked but he himself has ducked fighters.

undecided TRUSS.

Stevens was schooling him right up until he lost 7 of the 8 rounds and got stopped.

Ha! You've got to laugh!

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Post by mobilemaster8 Tue 23 Sep 2014, 10:24 am

GGG is, IMO, doing things the right way. Fighting different styles and named fighters. Maklin took an in form Martinez 11 rounds, Geale had beaten Sturm and was in a good tear up with Barker...who in turn to Martinez 11 rounds. Rosado is a tough cookie....think he fights on some circle ring thing now not sure. Knocked out Ishida which I don't think anyone has (correct me if I'm wrong) and then Stevens was supposed to be a big test because he has a big punch....GGG dropped him in the second and then hammered him all night into submission.

I'd say he is the best at middle....he takes out Cotton and Quillin for sure IMO.

Not sure how he does at super depending on his power.

I'd say he is top 15 in my p4p at the moment but again his next oppo is a step in the right direction. Hopefully see him unify next year, which I think will be his breakthrough year.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Sep 2014, 10:39 am

Mayweather is fighting different styles too...and getting less credit for better opponents

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Sep 2014, 11:46 am

How are Maidana (twice), Guerrero, Ortiz etc any better than what GGG has been facing?!

Has GGG forced any catchweights yet...?

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Post by .aveyard2.0 Tue 23 Sep 2014, 4:09 pm

i wouldnt say over-rated, you can only beat what is in front of you and he has handled all handily.

I was in vegas for the mayhem card last week and was speaking to a bloke by the pool who happened to be one of artin murrays former handlers. We got to yapping about murray and how i thought he beat sergio and couldve been a interesting opposition for ggg, apparently there was a 3 fight build up deal culminating in the two put forward by HBO, big bucks too, but it got turned down as murrays camp thought he would get "seriously hurt"

The only validation I have for this is the guy was sat next to liam smith poolside, other than that it could obviously be man sausage and bull but interesting none the less.

also when you look at some of the elite, 30-33 isnt that old. Floyd and manny are older, stevenson, hopkins, wlad, rigo...the big fights are just around the corner for gggm then i think we will find out where he sits.

For now im a huge fan for one!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 23 Sep 2014, 6:40 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:How are Maidana (twice), Guerrero, Ortiz etc any better than what GGG has been facing?!

Has GGG forced any catchweights yet...?

Maidana and Guerrero are a good level above the likes of Macklin and Geale but that's more down to the lack of talent in the middleweight division where both were major players. Both of them are however around the level of Ortiz, capable fighters but prone to lose as soon as they step up.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 8:44 am

Maidana already comfortably dealt with by Khan (as well as Kotelnik), just because he went clean through a hype-job and PBF struggled with his style doesn't make him any good.

And RG's record was all at weight divisions two below where he fought Floyd, he was nothing at LWW/WW, as the fight demonstrated. Glorified sparring.

Ortiz all style no substance, certainly no better than the middles GGG has been boxing the ears off - and not needing an unguarded sucker punch to finish.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:08 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:How are Maidana (twice), Guerrero, Ortiz etc any better than what GGG has been facing?!

Has GGG forced any catchweights yet...?

Dear oh dear.......He wonders why I don't take him seriously....Guerrero was Top 10 like it or not...Macklin wouldn't be in a Top 50.. .

Just stop being silly..

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:40 am

No, this has been done to death alreay, RG was nowhere near Top 10 and only magically appeared there (there being the list of 10 fights produced, not by consensus, but by 1 guy under the employ of Goldenboy, essentially, the mag's owners) once the PBF fight had signed.

Fact is he had next to no record at LWW/WW. Mikey Garcia has a cracking record at lower weights, if he suddenly signed to fight Floyd at 147 tomorrow would he suddenly be Top 10 and a great match-up? No.

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Post by Derbymanc Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:47 am

Of course he would Toppy, Mayweathers taking on those with winning records and that's all that counts right!!!!!!!


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:49 am

Pointless arguing with a guy who thinks a Broner slapping Maidana and Guerrero are on the same level as Jamie-Moore squashed perennial loser Macklin....

Now is it ??

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:57 am

Who has Maidana beaten? Biggest names are all in his 'L' column.

C'mon Trussy, what's so great about him?

His greatest career achievement is not getting hopelessly outclassed by Floyd Mayweather.

And RG, how's his LWW/WW cv looking? Littered with great names and lots of successes??

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Post by hazharrison Wed 24 Sep 2014, 10:57 am

You'll never convince them TopHat. Mayweather fans want to believe in him (and his proclamations). There's no convincing them.

Maidana was thoroughly outclassed by Devon Alexander prior to beating Floyd.

Guerrero has no record to speak of at 147 (other than a nip and tuck win over Haymon creation Andre Berto).

Maidana was at least ranked at 147 (as Macklin was at 160).

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 24 Sep 2014, 11:00 am

The same is also true of Macklin but he doesn't have a good win like Broner, that is why you have no consistency, looking at things from one direction.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 11:03 am

Absolutely Hammer..

Haz shouldn't comment on Floyd... Sour grapes...

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Post by hazharrison Wed 24 Sep 2014, 11:14 am

Was Broner a great win (I mean, it was obviously BRILLIANT to see him take a whupping, but who was Broner at welterweight)?

Broner had a poor record at 147 (hence the fact he's sloped off to 140). Many felt Malignaggi outscored him.

Many felt Macklin was unlucky against Sturm (and he gave a decent account of himself against Martinez).

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