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Springbok review from SA

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 10:35 am

I thought some of you guys would be interested in reading this article, it was on Sport 24 a SA website. The Journalist is Herman Mostert, I don't know the guy, but he has some valid points, this in the aftermath of the Wales loss. I pretty much agree with most of what he says here.

1. Bumbling Boks
The word bumbling is defined as acting in a confused or ineffectual way or simply being incompetent. It was a sound description for the way the Springboks performed. They simply made too many basic errors. Pat Lambie had an indifferent day at flyhalf, dropping balls and miss-directing his kicks, while his understudy Handre Pollard came on and also made errors out of hand. Not to mention several howlers from fullback Willie le Roux and replacement scrumhalf Francois Hougaard's inexplicable kick out on the full just after he had taken a quick tap following a penalty.
Former coach Nick Mallett afterwards said the Boks made schoolboy errors. He was right. It was a performance they would like to forget.

2. Penalty before half-time
Shortly before half-time, the Springboks won a penalty well within kicking range but skipper Jean de Villiers opted for a lineout instead of taking three points on offer. The Boks knocked on from the ensuing lineout and went into the break with the score level at 3-all. The South Africans were second best for much of the first period and taking a three point lead at half-time would have given them a significant psychological boost, especially against a team not in the best of states mentally, given their poor record against the three southern hemisphere giants. De Villiers's decision to turn down three points cost the Boks big time against Ireland in Dublin and almost proved critical in the game against England at Twickenham. Hopefully, at some stage someone will realise not taking points on offer in close games is vital...

3. Jean de Villiers injury
De Villiers's horrific knee injury was no doubt a key point in the match. The Bok captain could be heard screaming in agony when he dislocated his knee at a ruck in the 57th minute. At the time of writing, the extent of De Villiers's injury was still unsure but all indications are that he would be out for several months, and could even miss next year's Rugby World Cup in England and Wales. Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez would be the two most likely candidates to take over the captain's armband. At the time of De Villiers's in jury, the Boks trailed 12-6, but coach Meyer was right when he said it disrupted them in their charge to haul in the home side in the final quarter of the game.

4. Another dubious refereeing decision
Irish referee John Lacey's decision to sin-bin Bok wing Cornal Hendricks in the 62nd minute was nothing short of ridiculous. Hendricks contested a high ball with Welsh fullback Leigh Halfpenny. Both players had their eyes firmly on the ball, but Lacey somehow came to the conclusion that Hendricks deserved to see yellow. It was a very debatable call and the second time the Boks were on the receiving end of harsh yellow cards on this tour. It meant they had to largely defend at the tail-end of the game and were never really able to mount a sustained period of attack.

5. Bok scrum
The Springbok scrum remains a talking point after another seesawing display this past weekend. Some scrums were terrific, while on other occasions the Boks went backwards at an alarming rate. The jury is still out on whether Coenie Oosthuizen is a Test-standard tighthead. Tendai Mtawarira had one of his better games though, while Julian Redelinghuys did well when he came off the bench late in the game.

Here is what Nick Mallet had to say after the game.

"This was a very, very poor game of rugby. I don't think Wales were good, I don't think South Africa were good. There were so many mistakes by both teams. I have a list here... Pat Lambie's knock-on when he looked up and he had a perfect opportunity to catch the ball and kick it into the corner... Willie le Roux's two knock-ons at the end of the game were absolutely crucial... Handré Pollard has a chance to kick (a penalty) into the corner and not only does he miss the kick but the Welsh guy (Scott Williams) is so stupid that he tries to keep the ball in play (inside the deadball area) instead of allowing it to go dead... Francois Hougaard takes a quick penalty tap and bangs it straight out (on the full). I mean these are stupid schoolboy errors. There were no tries and it was a terribly depressing game. Give Wales credit - they beat a very poor, tired Springbok side - but I don't think they are going to be a threat at the World Cup either."

Mallett also questioned whether wing Cornal Hendricks should have received a yellow card after he contested for a high ball with Welsh fullback Leigh Halfpenny.

"I'm not absolutely certain that was a good decision (by Irish referee John Lacey). Both players were going up for the ball, but the attacking player going for the ball has to think about the receiving player, and apparently his safety is more important."
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Post by fa0019 Tue 02 Dec 2014, 1:36 pm

I think prop has been a weakness for the boks for a while, probably since 2010.

Take a look at England, spent the whole series with 2nd choice props yet were so dominant to all comers. They still have their primary props in Corbisiero and Cole to come back, both excellent scrummagers but also both far better in the loose too.

Where is the same for the boks?

Who is the backup to Mtawarira? Mtawarira has no genuine replacement. No one biting his ankles for the jersey, will that make him complacent... almost certainly. Can't continue to look at Gunthro.

Jannie has been a little fortunate that Frans Malherbe has been injured but what about Pat Cilliers? He has done rather well this year yet I fear that his mobility is something Meyer frowns upon... not 120kg... not a tighthead. Coenie is an awful tighthead.

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 1:43 pm

Well you not going to have back up if Meyer keeps selecting Gurthro at loosehead and Coenie at tighthead.

Looseheads at hoe Schalk v d Merwe, Marcel v d Merwe
Tight heads, Julian Redekinghuys, Frans Maherbe, Ruan Dreyer
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Post by Bullsbok Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:08 pm

The only positive i could take from the Welsh game was that although the Boks played poorly and lost ,the Welsh played a little less poorly. If they had destroyed us like England All blacks 2012 i'd be very very very worried . But it was a poor game from both sides decided by penalties so no harm done besides our egos. Will the Boks be afraid of bumping into Wales come World cup ? I doubt that very much .

As for the tour, played without some key players , blooded a few more . Better now than next year .
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:21 pm

We could have blooded more and given the more game time
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Post by tigertattie Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:24 pm

Nick Mallet hit the nail on the head!

Has there been any update on De Villiers? Looked like a career ender (given his age)!
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:26 pm

It sounds like 8 months, they are already speculating which of Meyer's best mates will take over the captaincy, Matfield or FOurie, I bet it is Matfield as he is a local player.

Whether he will still be able to play on his zimmer frame by October next year is another question altogether.
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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:32 pm

Those last minutes fumbles in the forwards when a try might have been so easily scored (the five metre scrum) was I feel the straw that would have broken my Head Coaching back.  I think an expensive dressing room door or wall might have taken a lot of damage had I been SA coach and witnessed that.

That was the same feeling I got when Ireland let in that late SA try.  I was furious.  Those are the tiny moments that seem unimportant when you look over a game in total, but they are the difference between winning and losing more important (6N or WC) games.  If you lose focus, even when winning - or even when losing! - that to me is the biggest fault any team can have.  I'd read the riot act.

So too, SA.  They are too good a side to have let that late chance for a one point victory go so easily.  Whatever about the game in total, and even if they were losing for most of the game in the nature of the battle they were makiing of it, SA should have had the professionalism to sniff so big a chance to steal the game in the last moments.  New Zealand would knuckle down and make that situation pay for them - despite a bad game, despite fatigue.  That was the moment that should never have been lost by a side of the calibre of SA.

I think if they even focused in on those few minutes, if they fully worked out their mentality then and the mistakes they made - that might serve a longer term goal than looking at the game in totality and trying to work out where things went wrong.

Things went wrong because Wales played hard and SA didn't play well and made mistakes. There is no secret as to why things went wrong.  But the crime was that despite that bad performance, the SAs were still presented with a clear chance to win the game - and blew it mentally.  That's the bit I'd work on.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:38 pm

Matfield would be an absolute disaster. Flip lost 1 lineout in 2013. He was immense and far better than Matfield who will be 38 come the next year.

Lets look at a probable side next year

Mtawarira, Bissie, Malherbe, Eben, Flip, Willem, Louw, Duane

Du Preez, Lambie, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen, Le Roux.

Out of those discount Eben, Malherbe, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen for the captaincy.

You are left with for the captaincy.

Mtawarira
Bissie
Flip
Willem
Louw
Duane
Lambie
Le Roux

I would say for me I would go old bok style and give it to Frans Louw.

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Post by Bullsbok Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:43 pm

Biltong wrote:It sounds like 8 months, they are already speculating which of Meyer's best mates will take over the captaincy, Matfield or FOurie, I bet it is Matfield as he is a local player.

Whether he will still be able to play on his zimmer frame by October next year is another question altogether.

don be so negative , you saw what happened without an experienced player in the backline when JDV left. It crumbled and it crumbled hard! I dont blame Meyer for wanting to stuff that team full of experience to guide the younger heads in times of crisis. Heck he's even talking about bring back Frans and Fourie who i dont doubt will answer the national call to arms especially Fourie . Not so worried about Frans if Serfontein can play a full SR alongside Polllard . The absence of FDP showed his importance to the Bok next year . Cobus and Hougaard cant control a game when it counts most and they have no plan B which has pressured the young flyhalves. You wont ever see Fourie kicking the ball straight out after taking a quick tap ala hougaard .

As for captainship , i'd go with Bissy personally but he never plays the entire game with Strauss on the bench and vice versa . FDP doesnt do captain very well , it will only end up with Matfield not my favourite choice but it is what it is.
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:Those last minutes fumbles in the forwards when a try might have been so easily scored (the five metre scrum) was I feel the straw that would have broken my Head Coaching back.  I think an expensive dressing room door or wall might have taken a lot of damage had I been SA coach and witnessed that.

That was the same feeling I got when Ireland let in that late SA try.  I was furious.  Those are the tiny moments that seem unimportant when you look over a game in total, but they are the difference between winning and losing more important (6N or WC) games.  If you lose focus, even when winning - or even when losing! - that to me is the biggest fault any team can have.  I'd read the riot act.

So too, SA.  They are too good a side to have let that late chance for a one point victory go so easily.  Whatever about the game in total, and even if they were losing for most of the game in the nature of the battle they were makiing of it, SA should have had the professionalism to sniff so big a chance to steal the game in the last moments.  New Zealand would knuckle down and make that situation pay for them - despite a bad game, despite fatigue.  That was the moment that should never have been lost by a side of the calibre of SA.

I think if they even focused in on those few minutes, if they fully worked out their mentality then and the mistakes they made - that might serve a longer term goal than looking at the game in totality and trying to work out where things went wrong.

Things went wrong because Wales played hard and SA didn't play well and made mistakes.  There is no secret as to why things went wrong.  But the crime was that despite that bad performance, the SAs were still presented with a clear chance to win the game - and blew it mentally.  That's the bit I'd work on.

Normally I would agree with you, they proved that how many ties this season. They did it against OZ was one point behind at Newlands and won by 18 in the last 13 minutes, was behind NZ in the last minutes and won, was behind Argentina in Salta and won, was behind Wales in Nelspruit and won.

SO the have done it plenty of times, the biggest challenge they had was the ten minutes they were under the cosh in their 22 without Hendricks, the fact that they conceded no points under that yellow card was immense.

I think the end of the tour, having been under pressure to defend and fatigue just took over.
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Post by Bullsbok Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:46 pm

fa0019 wrote:Matfield would be an absolute disaster. Flip lost 1 lineout in 2013. He was immense and far better than Matfield who will be 38 come the next year.

Lets look at a probable side next year

Mtawarira, Bissie, Malherbe, Eben, Flip, Willem, Louw, Duane

Du Preez, Lambie, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen, Le Roux.

Out of those discount Eben, Malherbe, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen for the captaincy.

You are left with for the captaincy.

Mtawarira
Bissie
Flip
Willem
Louw
Duane
Lambie
Le Roux

I would say for me I would go old bok style and give it to Frans Louw.

No ones giving the captaincy to an overseas Bok . I see Duane or Bissy in that shortlist
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:51 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Biltong wrote:It sounds like 8 months, they are already speculating which of Meyer's best mates will take over the captaincy, Matfield or FOurie, I bet it is Matfield as he is a local player.

Whether he will still be able to play on his zimmer frame by October next year is another question altogether.

don be so negative , you saw what happened without an experienced player in the backline when JDV left. It crumbled and it crumbled hard! I dont blame Meyer for wanting to stuff that team full of experience to guide the younger heads in times of crisis. Heck he's even talking about bring back Frans and Fourie who i dont doubt will answer the national call to arms especially Fourie  . Not so worried about Frans if Serfontein can play a full SR alongside Polllard . The absence of FDP showed his importance to the Bok next year . Cobus and Hougaard cant control a game when it counts most and they have no plan B which has pressured the young flyhalves. You wont ever see Fourie kicking the ball straight out after taking a quick tap ala hougaard .

As for captainship , i'd go with Bissy personally but he never plays the entire game with Strauss on the bench and vice versa . FDP doesnt do captain very well , it will only end up with Matfield not my favourite choice but it is what it is.

Bullsbok, I know you are a bulls supporter through and through, and if I had the opportunity to sit down and show you some replays of the season you would see that there is plenty of reason to be negative. It is easy (just like Meyer did after the match) to throw around excuses and blame to inexperienced players after Jean went off.

But that is nonsense. Victor makes poor decisions, he has been making poor decisions the whole tour.

His physicality has been poor in the contact areas, I was watching how he had ball in hand, got tackled, had two support players and didn't offload, and it happened more than once.

I will bet you now, we will not win the RWC with Meyers insistence of these older players, he can throw as much bale to these "inexperienced " players as he wants, which is partly his fault for not giving them opportunities when he could through the last 3 years.

I bet you a bottle of Glenfiddich or whatever you drink, that we won't win it.
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Post by disneychilly Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:52 pm

Skip's got to have his place in the team without question. Louw's solid as, but Coetzee has played pretty bloody well this year. You don't want another Smit/Bismarck situation.

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:54 pm

No you don't , you want a youngster who wants to play adventurous positive rugby and able to make the right decisions at the right time.
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Post by Bullsbok Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:59 pm

Biltong wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Biltong wrote:It sounds like 8 months, they are already speculating which of Meyer's best mates will take over the captaincy, Matfield or FOurie, I bet it is Matfield as he is a local player.

Whether he will still be able to play on his zimmer frame by October next year is another question altogether.

don be so negative , you saw what happened without an experienced player in the backline when JDV left. It crumbled and it crumbled hard! I dont blame Meyer for wanting to stuff that team full of experience to guide the younger heads in times of crisis. Heck he's even talking about bring back Frans and Fourie who i dont doubt will answer the national call to arms especially Fourie  . Not so worried about Frans if Serfontein can play a full SR alongside Polllard . The absence of FDP showed his importance to the Bok next year . Cobus and Hougaard cant control a game when it counts most and they have no plan B which has pressured the young flyhalves. You wont ever see Fourie kicking the ball straight out after taking a quick tap ala hougaard .

As for captainship , i'd go with Bissy personally but he never plays the entire game with Strauss on the bench and vice versa . FDP doesnt do captain very well , it will only end up with Matfield not my favourite choice but it is what it is.

Bullsbok, I know you are a bulls supporter through and through, and if I had the opportunity to sit down and show you some replays of the season you would see that there is plenty of reason to be negative. It is easy (just like Meyer did after the match) to throw around excuses and blame to inexperienced players after Jean went off.

But that is nonsense. Victor makes poor decisions, he has been making poor decisions the whole tour.

His physicality has been poor in the contact areas, I was watching how he had ball in hand, got tackled, had two support players and didn't offload, and it happened more than once.

I will bet you now, we will not win the RWC with Meyers insistence of these older players, he can throw as much bale to these "inexperienced " players as he wants, which is partly his fault for not giving them opportunities when he could through the last 3 years.

I bet you a bottle of Glenfiddich or whatever you drink, that we won't win it.

Easy to single out Matfield , how about last 20min without Jean . 2 Le Roux dropped balls , Hougaard dead kick , De Allende invisibility , Pollard mising touch and getting saved by the Welsh fullback,Hougaard and Duane between them losing the ball at a 5m scrum .
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Post by disneychilly Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:01 pm

BTW if noone's taking that Glenfiddich...

Scares me though. You lot may or may not win next year, but you're a hell of a chance to knock us out regardless of where you finish.

Strauss deservedly claimed top spot as the 2. So Bismarck's out for being skip. Who is a certainty in the top XV? Etzebeth and Vermeulen are probably the only two you reckon? Has Duane skipped at Super Rugby level?

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:03 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
Biltong wrote:It sounds like 8 months, they are already speculating which of Meyer's best mates will take over the captaincy, Matfield or FOurie, I bet it is Matfield as he is a local player.

Whether he will still be able to play on his zimmer frame by October next year is another question altogether.

don be so negative , you saw what happened without an experienced player in the backline when JDV left. It crumbled and it crumbled hard! I dont blame Meyer for wanting to stuff that team full of experience to guide the younger heads in times of crisis. Heck he's even talking about bring back Frans and Fourie who i dont doubt will answer the national call to arms especially Fourie  . Not so worried about Frans if Serfontein can play a full SR alongside Polllard . The absence of FDP showed his importance to the Bok next year . Cobus and Hougaard cant control a game when it counts most and they have no plan B which has pressured the young flyhalves. You wont ever see Fourie kicking the ball straight out after taking a quick tap ala hougaard .

As for captainship , i'd go with Bissy personally but he never plays the entire game with Strauss on the bench and vice versa . FDP doesnt do captain very well , it will only end up with Matfield not my favourite choice but it is what it is.

Bullsbok, I know you are a bulls supporter through and through, and if I had the opportunity to sit down and show you some replays of the season you would see that there is plenty of reason to be negative. It is easy (just like Meyer did after the match) to throw around excuses and blame to inexperienced players after Jean went off.

But that is nonsense. Victor makes poor decisions, he has been making poor decisions the whole tour.

His physicality has been poor in the contact areas, I was watching how he had ball in hand, got tackled, had two support players and didn't offload, and it happened more than once.

I will bet you now, we will not win the RWC with Meyers insistence of these older players, he can throw as much bale to these "inexperienced " players as he wants, which is partly his fault for not giving them opportunities when he could through the last 3 years.

I bet you a bottle of Glenfiddich or whatever you drink, that we won't win it.

Easy to single out Matfield , how about last 20min without Jean . 2 Le Roux dropped balls , Hougaard dead kick , De Allende invisibility , Pollard mising touch and getting saved by the Welsh fullback,Hougaard and Duane between them losing the ball at a 5m scrum .

Well there is your answer and Meyer's answer, Hougaard is an experienced player, Duane is an experienced player, Willie is an experienced player, you can blame one rookie, Pollard

De Allende had little to do because he never got the ball. We were defending for most of that period.

The whole tea under performed.

If you honestly believe Matfield apart from his line out nous can add value to the bok pack, then I a afraid you are as loyal to a fault as Meyer
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Post by Bullsbok Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:07 pm

disneychilly wrote:BTW if noone's taking that Glenfiddich...

Scares me though. You lot may or may not win next year, but you're a hell of a chance to knock us out regardless of where you finish.

Strauss deservedly claimed top spot as the 2. So Bismarck's out for being skip. Who is a certainty in the top XV? Etzebeth and Vermeulen are probably the only two you reckon? Has Duane skipped at Super Rugby level?

I think he has , definitely captained the Currie cup side at some point though and I think I speak for a lot of Bok fans when i say Ireland is the NH team we'd least like to face in the World Cup . Matter of fact anytime not just world cup . I'd much rather the Boks face England at Twickenham tbh or Wales for that matter
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:08 pm

disneychilly wrote:BTW if noone's taking that Glenfiddich...

Scares me though. You lot may or may not win next year, but you're a hell of a chance to knock us out regardless of where you finish.

Strauss deservedly claimed top spot as the 2. So Bismarck's out for being skip. Who is a certainty in the top XV? Etzebeth and Vermeulen are probably the only two you reckon? Has Duane skipped at Super Rugby level?

You have to ask who is Meyers certain starters

Beast
Bismarck/Strauss
Jannie
Eben
Victor (Although I would make a case for Flip v d Merwe and also think he could make a good captain)
Louw/Coetzee
Mohoje (F.. knows how he holds a spot)
Vermeulen (Not sure he is a good communicator though)
Fourie du Preez
Pollard/Lambie
Frans Steyn (I hope to hell he isn't in the squad)
Jan Serfontein
Bryan Habana
JP PIetersen
Willie

SO there aren't that many options.

I personally think it will be Victor which in my view is the John Smit scenario all over again, but then we don't like to learn from the past
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:20 pm

I wish SARU would say to Meyer and whoever takes over from him we should rebuild a team.

We have so many talented youngsters at the moment, let them build a team of young blokes interspersed with a few experienced players.

Something like this.

Marcel v d Merwe/ Schalk v d Merwe/ Trevor Nyakane
Bismarck/Strauss/Coetzee
Frans Malherbe/Ruan Dreyer/Julian Redelinghuys
Etzebeth/Lewies/Flip/du Toit
Coetzee/Carr
Arno Botha/Jaques du PLessis
Vermeulen/Mtembu
Reinach/Luiters/v Zyl
Pollard/Lambie/GOosen
Serfontein/De ALlende
JJ/Jordaan
Senatla/Van Wyk/Sithole/Kolbe
WIllie/Kriel
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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:44 pm

Would a rebuild be a pre-WC exercise or a post-WC one? Pre would be dangerous if the guys simply needed a break. Post will probably come anyway after the WC.

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:58 pm

Pre, we are not ready to win it.
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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Dec 2014, 4:04 pm

If you can't win it, what do you think Cheika might secretly think? They can flash the ball around but they know they need much more in their bag to win the WC.

And as for the rest of us? Tons to work on with only England in some kind of comfort zone of at least playing many of their games in their home ground.

It's there to be won Bilt. You know in your heart of hearts, with a title up for grabs as motive, your guys will be ready to put up a serious fight.

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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 4:10 pm

FLy, in 2011 we went into the RWC with any of the players Meyer wants to take with him.

They were not good enough then, nor able to adapt, they are now 4 years older and in poorer for than then.

There are not enough experienced youngsters as Meyer held on to the old guys for too long, so no, we are not realistically having a chance.
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Post by rodders Tue 02 Dec 2014, 4:56 pm

I think there is an over reaction here - there's no doubt in my mind that SA and Australia both underperformed and looked tired this Autumn, probably NZ too but the results masked it.

That's not to devalue any of the NH results, well not Ireland's anyways Smile ..... but for me both with be serious contenders next year - especially the boks.

4 weekends of AIs off the back of the RC isn't sustainable and I wouldn't be too critical.
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:06 pm

Rodders, it isn't because of the AI's that I am saying this, I have been saying this for 6 months now
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Post by rodders Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:10 pm

Oh...sorry bilts I was off line for 6 months....

Anyways I've been impressed with the boks - maybe things haven't kicked on from last year but there is some serious quality there.....
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Post by Biltong Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:12 pm

There is quality, but it hasn't been put together cohesively.
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Post by rodders Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:31 pm

Biltong wrote:There is quality, but it hasn't been put together cohesively.

Story of my life.
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Post by Taylorman Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:36 pm

Real shame about JDV, easily my favourite Bok player. Hope he recovers well and gets there. Big loss in World cup terms and his onfield leadership will be missed. But it opens doors for others as players and leadership. I wouldnt go to Matfield. Putting that and his lineout responsibilities on him at that age just sounds tiring. He won't have the required energy.

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Post by Taylorman Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:37 pm

rodders wrote:
Biltong wrote:There is quality, but it hasn't been put together cohesively.

Story of my life.
Laugh Ale...feel a song coming on...

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Post by George Carlin Wed 03 Dec 2014, 7:47 am

How bad has your season been really, though, Bilt and Bulls?

Rugby Championship was played 6, won 4 with basically the last kick of the game doing for you against the Wallabies in Perth and you beat the All Blacks at Ellis Park. Hendricks and Pollard posted very good stats for that tournament.

Losing your captain is obviously a massive blow but general malaise (as Rodders says) is easily explainable.
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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 03 Dec 2014, 9:16 am

Matfield was a passenger on Saturday. I've not seen enough of the Boks this year to know if this was a below par performance or standard from him these days, but other than running the lineout I did not see him make any positive contribution on Saturday.
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Post by Biltong Wed 03 Dec 2014, 10:45 am

George Carlin wrote:How bad has your season been really, though, Bilt and Bulls?

Rugby Championship was played 6, won 4 with basically the last kick of the game doing for you against the Wallabies in Perth and you beat the All Blacks at Ellis Park. Hendricks and Pollard posted very good stats for that tournament.

Losing your captain is obviously a massive blow but general malaise (as Rodders says) is easily explainable.

The results haven't been bad mate, but results often hide the truth.
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Post by Biltong Wed 03 Dec 2014, 10:47 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:Matfield was a passenger on Saturday.  I've not seen enough of the Boks this year to know if this was a below par performance or standard from him these days, but other than running the lineout I did not see him make any positive contribution on Saturday.

It was way below par, and we had a number of these types of performances this year
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Post by kingraf Wed 03 Dec 2014, 12:29 pm

Can't have Etzebeth as captain. Can't have your captain grabbing people by the collar every game. Or going into matches thinking a yellow is a very realistic eventuality for your captain.

I'd stick Serfontein as skipper. That way the logic behind making him undroppable becomes more palatable Very Happy
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Post by Biltong Wed 03 Dec 2014, 12:39 pm

Long time since Etzebeth has lost his cool, besides he doesn't need to grab anyone to intimidate them, he just has to run at them once.
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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 03 Dec 2014, 12:51 pm

Surely Vermeulen has to be the most viable option as skipper. Is an automatic pick, is in great form, and will lead by example on the field.
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Post by Biltong Wed 03 Dec 2014, 1:12 pm

Yes, considering all the factors he does stand out
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Post by FerN Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:47 am

Not this thread, but couldn't find the other one Bilts, but you called it:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Steyn-Kirchner-back-in-Bok-frame-20141208

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