Does it Happen?

Pac v May, will it happen or not. Please give reasons below.

For me, no, it wont happen at all. Not with Arum involved.

Fight hype and boxrec are both reporting this is a done deal, boxrec have know added it to the fighters schedule as well.

Guess we'll find out soon.

Probably doesn't happen.

It's been shoved in our faces for so long now that I'm convinced there are some people who have lost perspective of it all and who can't take a step back to realise just how big an absolute joke the whole thing has been. Over five years now people have been clamouring for it (practically foaming at the mouth for two / three years of that period from 2009 to 2011) and the two camps haven't even got close to making a fight. Not even close.

Tweeting, dropping the other guy's name in to a press conference to try and get people interested in fights against guys like Ortiz or Rios in a bid to improve the PPV numbers, rolling out lines like, "If he want it, he can get it" or "I want to fight him, but it's up to my promoter" etc don't bloody count - does anyone actually believe there's ever been any proper negotiations between the camps?

And yet you still hear people claiming that Mayweather has never been wary of Pacquiao's threat, that the fight is sure to be announced to the world soon, that it's just been a clever long game played by both guys to keep us enticed, that Manny has agreed to all demands from Mayweather etc. I can't believe anyone could take a single word either fighter / camp says about the fight at face value anymore. I place more blame at Floyd's door than I do Manny's, but the fact is that neither of them have wanted the fight as much as they claim and both of them have preferred to hide behind excuses and flimsy smoke screens at various times.

From 2009 to 2012 there was every reason in the world to make it happen - and it didn't. Doesn't fill me with any confidence that it'll happen now when Floyd has $32 million guarantees per fight (even against the Maidanas and Guerreros of this world), can hide behind the Al Haymon / HBO divide and when Pacquiao has shown signs of deterioration which will likely make Arum more averse to giving Mayweather a chance to humiliate him by beating his current charge, given his well-publicised fall out with Floyd back in the day. He had a fighter capable of beating Mayweather four or five years back - it's highly debatable if that's the case now, even if Mayweather's lost a bit of his shine too.

Even if it does happen, regardless of who wins neither guy is going to get the same addulation and credit they'd have got for winning it a few years back, particularly Mayweather given that he'd line up as a big favourite, rather than a narrow one now. Still a momentous win for him, and an even bigger one for Pacquiao considering he's had some struggles and effectively been written off, but had he beaten Mayweather in 2010 his standing would have been off the charts, whereas now in light of Marquez III and IV, the Bradley saga and a gradual downturn in some of his performances, that bubble has burst somewhat.

Man, did I really just type out all that (again) over this phantom fight which is never going to happen and which I'm sick to death of even hearing about? Forgive me Lord, as I have well and truly sinned!

Doubt it and don't care anyway.

Floyd will win and will never shut up about it, despite it being meaningless compared to a Win in 08/09.

how can this fight be called meaningless? 3 million plus PPV, the spotlight on our sport, two ageing champions.

sigh.

Chris great points but I think they do get adulation, it's a fair fight as both men are passed their best. I've said this many times before, all the greats do it when we think they're done. That is what makes them great. If Pac won clearly it make him a great, a clean one too, for once.

Well it is a meaningless fight in the fans eyes. It's been dangled like a carrot for the best part of six years now and some fans are fed up, and understandably so. The simple answer is that it doesn't mean as much now as it would have four or five years ago.

meaningless in fans eyes? how much do you want to bet it does record PPV numbers?

Like Lewis-Tyson all over again.

Fighting each other years too late, both past their best, and will not live up to the stratospheric, nay mesospheric, hype.

Who says boxing is dead?

DDGO2 wrote:meaningless in fans eyes? how much do you want to bet it does record PPV numbers?

You're missing the point, this fight is happening far, far too late and as such it is not as meaningful as it once could have been. Bellew vs Cleverly sold PPV and that was still a meaningless fight. Before you jump down my throat I am not saying those fights are the same, just showing you that it even meaningless fights will be bought be some.

Duty281 wrote:Like Lewis-Tyson all over again.

Not quite that bad! Floyd and Manny are still two of the top fighters on the planet - some would even argue they're still numbers one and two (Mayweather's definitely still at the top, but Pacquiao has stern competition for that second spot). Problem is there used to be a fiery debate over which of them deserved to be number one - now it's Floyd, daylight, then the rest and we're not even sure if Pacquiao is at the front of that 'rest' group.

It has meaning, for sure, but it hasn't got that mega fight air to it anymore. Those kind of fights don't come along very often, and that we missed out on it for no good reason is a sickener.

Shouldn't be confused with something like Tyson-Lewis, though, which was a bit of a freakshow and by which point Tyson was as shot as they come and probably not even one of the top ten Heavyweights in the world anymore, nevermind one of the best fighters across all weights. In this case it's more like the Hearns-Leonard rematch or Mancini-Camacho; massive fights which happened late and still carried some weight when they did, but would have been so much more important and exciting had they come about a few years earlier.

Here's what manny had to say on the matter, when asked recently
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzVbTVncOw

It ranks alongside Lewis/Tyson and Calzaghe/Jones for meaningless-ness and all three are nothing but vanity projects (sorry Chris) It's an excuse for Mayweather to go overboard tweeting about how rich he is whilst Manny tweets that he doesn't care about money but will flatly refuse to take anything less than a 50/50 purse split.

If Arum fought Haymon to the death on the undercard I might show signs of less disinterest than I currently display.

Both parties can fall off the planet as far as I'm concerned.

Mayweather is undefeated! how is he past it. He has adapted into a fighter who can win without moving.

And Pac avenged a defeat against a world class fighter and has recovered well since JM knocked him out cold.

Stuff like this is WHY WE LOVE BOXING.

DDGO2 wrote:how can this fight be called meaningless? 3 million plus PPV, the spotlight on our sport, two ageing champions.

sigh.

Did you not read the words 'compared to', or just not understand?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/compare

don't compare the biggest fight of all time to Lewis Tyson, that was a blatant case of name dropping. This isn't

New Year, same tiresome emore...

new year same needy tophat. get lost you moron. people on here think you're a complete tool. talk boxing, and do me a favor yeah, think first.

Before it gets out of hand the insults stop there, I'm tired and cranky and don't mind using my ban hammer

DDGO2 wrote:new year same needy tophat. get lost you moron. people on here think you're a complete tool. talk boxing, and do me a favor yeah, think first.

Happy new year

My feeing on this is people are sick about hearing about the fight and it never happens. If the two fighters were in their dressing rooms getting their hands taped and warming up I'd wager practically everybody on this board would want to watch it and would be buzzing.

The fight can happen if the rewards are stratospheric. Floyd has run out of big fight opponents.

Not me Strongy,

I've got no interest in this fight now at all. If i'm at work and it's on then i'll watch it, if i'm at home then I won't (assuming it's PPV, if it's on SS1 then i'll record it and zoom through it the morning after.)

I'd love for it to completely bomb to show fighters that they need to make the bigger fights whilst they're in top form unfortunately there's enough fans (Casual and 'proper' ) that will still make this a big fight.

Strongback wrote:My feeing on this is people are sick about hearing about the fight and it never happens.  If the two fighters were in their dressing rooms getting their hands taped and warming up I'd wager practically everybody on this board would want to watch it and would be buzzing.

The fight can happen if the rewards are stratospheric.  Floyd has run out of big fight opponents.

Has never stopped him before. He's the master of talking up crap fights and getting the Flomos in a fizz.

Strongback wrote:My feeing on this is people are sick about hearing about the fight and it never happens.  If the two fighters were in their dressing rooms getting their hands taped and warming up I'd wager practically everybody on this board would want to watch it and would be buzzing.

The fight can happen if the rewards are stratospheric.  Floyd has run out of big fight opponents.

I don't know about that. Surely I'm not the only the one who wants to see pound for pound greats Guerrero and Ortiz have another go?

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:My feeing on this is people are sick about hearing about the fight and it never happens.  If the two fighters were in their dressing rooms getting their hands taped and warming up I'd wager practically everybody on this board would want to watch it and would be buzzing.

The fight can happen if the rewards are stratospheric.  Floyd has run out of big fight opponents.

Has never stopped him before.  He's the master of talking up crap fights and getting the Flomos in a fizz.

Look at the PPV numbers. Floyd has bled that well dry. Khan isn't going to generate the numbers either.

I don't see it happening. I think both fighters have seen their ppv numbers tank, their ppv numbers both peaked when the fight was anticipated, and that this is a cynical ploy to garner interest in their last couple of fights. I'll tune in if its signed, but the story bores me now. Should have happened 3 years ago when they were both on hbo.

I don't see it happening. But if it did I give Pac a better chance now than ever.

superflyweight wrote:

Strongback wrote:My feeing on this is people are sick about hearing about the fight and it never happens.  If the two fighters were in their dressing rooms getting their hands taped and warming up I'd wager practically everybody on this board would want to watch it and would be buzzing.

The fight can happen if the rewards are stratospheric.  Floyd has run out of big fight opponents.

I don't know about that.  Surely I'm not the only the one who wants to see pound for pound greats Guerrero and Ortiz have another go?  

Tell me another fighter apart from Manny around today who's either fought the p4p greats Mayweather has or is fighting them ???

As for this being a meaningless fight..

1. It's only meaningless because posters here think Floyd will win and the board is crying about it like usual.....(Alvarez was meaningless too because until Floyd is an underdog then a fight won't have meaning...Yep Hagler never had a meaningful fight and neither did Louis bless him until Charles!!! )

2. If fighting a guy regarded as the 3rd/4th best fighter in the World is meaningless...............Then there is no such thing as a meaningful fight these days......So why don't you all go and watch wrestling.... ..

Afternoon chaps !!

Well, that depends. If you mean 'p4p greats' as in whoever PBF pays the Ring to temporarily elevate them into a long-since credible p4p list, then nobody.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Well, that depends.  If you mean 'p4p greats' as in whoever PBF pays the Ring to temporarily elevate them into a long-since credible p4p list, then nobody.

It was aimed at posters above your paygrade..

welcome back fatlad.

When Toppy calls you fat lad...........You know the World has gone nuts.....

I agree with Strongy entirely ( Dear God!! 2015 is going to be an odd year! ). At the moment it's as much a fantasy as it ever has been, nothing substantial to support it and as far as us fans are concerned we've been there, bought the T-Shirt and burnt is several times over. If we were one month out, the 24/7's where being filmed and people had purchased tickets, then that would be enough to actually think it really was going to happen and to take the fight as a completely done deal barring injury.

As for the mega fight, I'm going to disagree with Chris entirely ( Dear God!! 2015 is going to be an odd year! ). It may not be as mega, but is would still be classed as a mega fight and it would still have a big relevance today and in the future when reflecting on this period of boxing. They have both shown enough recently to suggest that they are not finished or shot and the victor was will be without "much" doubt considered the best of this era. Say they don't fight, Floyd will be classed as number 1 by 99% of the boxing historians as it stands. Say they fight and he loses and does so convincingly, all of a sudden there will be debate about Pac being the best of the era and his losses, particularly to JMM, will be put down to simply having a bogey man/nemesis and taking tougher challenges or getting rough decisions.

My feeling is Floyd will price himself out,  in saying that maybe it's a done deal already.


Floyd will want a higher cut , Manny will accept on 65/35 but Bob won't budge on 60/40 and why should he, anything less is frankly insulting and underselling his client, that's $120m for Floyd he can't get anywhere near that anywhere else.

The fights happening too late of course , not as late as Tyson/Holy or Calzaghe /Jones but more on a Hagler/Leonard level. That was a damp squib of course largely due to Ray's unwillingness to engage  but the atmosphere was still at a pitch you don't often experience.

Floyd has spoiled this fight for five years , his whole team spoiled this fight from the word go , Arum f'd up the first negotiations , giving Floyd a good excuse ever since to weasel till he thinks Manny is past it, his whole team have always been jittery, they've run out of opposition but Manny not yet past it , it's a problem their icon sparked out not going to look good, but I'm a realist , Floyd is favourite can win but just one slip up and this could be the fight where we see it.

Herman Jaggery wrote:My feeling is Floyd will price himself out.  in saying that maybe it's a done deal already.


Floyd will want a higher cut , Manny will accept on 65/35 but Bob won't budge on 60/40 and why should he, anything less is frankly insulting and underselling his client, that's $120m for Floyd he can't get anywhere near that anywhere else.

The fights happening too late of course

Manny has nothing to lose....He wins and he was the best all a long...

Mayweather wins and he fought a past it Paccy.......

As for the percentages well................Arum is more interested in bragging about screwing opposite promoters over than the fight itself.....

Remember Nunn v Barkley and his gloating on getting Barkley dirt cheap...

Still be the biggest fight in history...............Which makes comments like "Meaningless" look rather silly..

I think in some ways it sets a precedent for boxing negotiations if this does not happen. So it means everything.

It's as big a fight as people want to make it. Regardless of the context of two deteriorating fighters, if enough people want to see it, it's a huge fight.

I'll watch it, obviously. Still bitter that it didn't happen between 09-11 when it would have been the no.1 & 2 in the world with styles tailored made for each other answering all our questions. What do we learn from the fight in 2014? But sure, from a purely entertainment point of view, I'd watch it.

Will it happen? No, I don't think either fancies it as much as they make out.

The reason the fight hasn't happened is because Manny is a champagne version of Castillo and Maidana.

Pacquiao has always given Uncle Rog the willies.

I think it'll happen.

Both of them have exhausted the PPV market with meaningless fights over the years, and now that their PPV numbers have fallen, now may be the time for them to cash in.

Strongback wrote:The reason the fight hasn't happened is because Manny is a champagne version of Castillo and Maidana.

Pacquiao has always given Uncle Rog the willies.

Floyd has never found an opponenent he hasn't been able to work-out/overcome. Thing is, if you look at the times/styles aginst which he maybe briefly has struggled (Pressure [Castillo & ODLH], angles [Maidana], speed [Judah], southpaw [Judah]) only one fighter in modern history has encapuslated all of those styles/attirbutes.

And that fighter is Manny.

That's what made it such an interesting fight back in 08-11. But it's gone from 55:45 in Floyd's favour to more like 75:25 now. Just hard to care as much.

Would hardly say Maidana is an angles fighter Toppie! Crude/bigger version slugger of Castillo maybe, but technical and angularly awkward astute he certainly ain't.

Agree it doesn't hold the same lure, but it'd be the biggest fight in boxing history and anything that creates a massive buzz for the sport/gets casual fans frothing at the mouth/gives us the biggest fight our of generation/bends UFC over and pisses up it's bumhole is still something I'd like to see get done.

Sadly I have more chance of nailing Gabriella Wilde than this fight ever happening. If it does I'll streak down Oxford St.

Crude yes, but he does throw some wild swinging punches from interesting angles!

GGG vs Murray/Geale/no mark/no mark/no mark and no mark is eagerly awaited and meaningful....

Yet Cotto beating Martinez and wanting a voluntary against p4p Alvarez or Top 5 fighters Mayweather v Manny engaging are meaningless fights.....

You have to laugh....

These people TRUSS< you cannot debate with them. They probably think the Bellew v Clev PPV was value for money...

Shut up emore.....

It's nowhere near as meaningful as it was a few years back and you've have to be a bit daft not to realise that.

It could be a lot more meaningful to the future as the next crop of superstars might see that they don't need to jeopordise their 0 until they get well past it and can make excuses as to why they lost.

All but Mayweather did lose their 0... oh, dear.

It isn't meaningless though is it when two top p4pers clash in the biggest fight of alltime ??????

If this fight has little meaning nothing has meaning........

Leonard-Hagler would have been better in 83 !!!

Not saying May v Man wouldn't have been better five years ago............

But we all know Manny has nothing to lose and everything to gain...........

Loses he's past it.............Wins he was better all a long....

I'll agree with Toppy for the first comment.

@Truss
For me personally it has little meaning, i've stated before I'm not interested in it any more. Too much time has gone past and regardless of outcome it isn't going to show anything as either set of fans is going to have their excuses lined up as to why the other lost. (Manny does have more to gain as well)

To me it sets a bad precedence (not the only thing though,) in that you can be top of the tree but wait until the very end of your career before fighting your rivals. I'd love for it to fail completely but we all know that's not gonna happen.

Derbymanc wrote:I'll agree with Toppy for the first comment.

@Truss
For me personally it has little meaning, i've stated before I'm not interested in it any more. Too much time has gone past and regardless of outcome it isn't going to show anything as either set of fans is going to have their excuses lined up as to why the other lost. (Manny does have more to gain as well)

To me it sets a bad precedence (not the only thing though,) in that you can be top of the tree but wait until the very end of your career before fighting your rivals. I'd love for it to fail completely but we all know that's not gonna happen.

Bollox you'll be watching it...........

Bet you watched Groves - Froch 2 .............The fight to establish who is second best in the 168 division !!