Has George Groves lost his grip on reality?

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:44 am

Firstly, he is desperately pursuing a mandatory with the WBC, which is not only a fight he doesn't deserve, but a fight I think he loses to Dirrell. Now, I don't expect GG to feel he will lose this fight, and it isn't a forgone conclusion that he would, but this fight would likely be abroad and for not much $$$.

Seemingly, Groves is allowing his disdain for Eddie Hearn as a stalling point for a DeGale rematch. It seems Groves was offered 2.5 million for that fight, and that it would be for the IBF belt. Why wouldn't Groves want that fight? Biggest pay day of his career, a winnable fight, and unless he gets pancaked, an easy rubber to make later on.

Groves seems to have changed since the Froch fights. I don't just mean he has looked bad in the ring, that could be down to fighting too much last year, tbh. What I mean is in attitude. It's Groves against the world. He won't do things anybody's way except his own. He signs with a German promotional outfit that offer little in Britain other than their relationship with Hearn. He won't rematch DeGale for more money than he has ever made. Instead, he's over at the WBC convention chasing another mandatory.

I have time for Groves, and I am all for a boxer grabbing hold of their career. I also don't mind that he is pretty public with his disdain for Hearn. Hearn is a promoter after all, so why not poke him a little. But is he making smart business decisions? I think not.

by Herman Jaeger Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:51 am

I didn't know he turned down 2.5m for DeGale rematch, but like you that strikes me as strange. Lot of money. Time will tell.

by **88Chris05** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:56 am

I think Groves has enjoyed taking up the roll of panto villain, really. He's done a good job of it but is probably in danger of going over the top on that front now. He's badly overstating his standing and overall importance to boxing if he really believes all this 'me against the world, I can't trust anyone, they're all out to get me and I'm my own man who doesn't need anyone else' stuff that he's been talking recently.

I think he's smart enough to know that he's talking a load of cobblers, but too proud to accept that, as the loser of the fight, he can't expect to have that same profile and attention that he had in the build up to last May's Wembley fight. He clearly loved being in the limelight and doesn't seem to be able to let that go.

I don't really get too sensitive about fighters bad-mouthing promoters or goading other fighters, as long as it's within reason; let's be honest, it's hard to totally burn bridges in boxing because, no matter what's gone before, if you can bring in a bit of money for them then other fighters and promoters will accommodate you. But Groves talked big in the build up to Wembley and didn't deliver - and rather than teach him a bit of humility, it seems to have gone completely the other way.

I think he's better than just becoming a fighter that everyone loves to hate, but if he carries on the way he's going now he might just cross that line and he'll end up regretting it.

by Guest Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:57 am

Do you not think a unification match earns him more money that if there's just ONE belt on the line.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 10:59 am

DAVE667 wrote:Do you not think a unification match earns him more money that if there's just ONE belt on the line.

A world title fight is all that's needed. It will make zero difference to the amount of people who go or watch if there is two.

by Coxy001 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:02 am

For some reason he thinks he's really smart. Yet when he gets spanked next to have "3" in the loss column he won't be doing much than acting as padding on undercards for the next couple of years.

£2.5m for Degale, where did that come from? If that's right then I'd love to know who he's going to fight next that earns him even 20% of that.

by Guest Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:02 am

Seanusarrilius wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Do you not think a unification match earns him more money that if there's just ONE belt on the line.

A world title fight is all that's needed. It will make zero difference to the amount of people who go or watch if there is two.

Dunno mate, some people are dumb enough to shell out for anything....look at all those who went to Groves/Froch II to "be a part of history" then spent most of their time in the bar or asking why Froch wasn't fighting Ricky Hatton

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:05 am

88Chris05 wrote:I think Groves has enjoyed taking up the roll of panto villain, really. He's done a good job of it but is probably in danger of going over the top on that front now. He's badly overstating his standing and overall importance to boxing if he really believes all this 'me against the world, I can't trust anyone, they're all out to get me and I'm my own man who doesn't need anyone else' stuff that he's been talking recently.

I think he's smart enough to know that he's talking a load of cobblers, but too proud to accept that, as the loser of the fight, he can't expect to have that same profile and attention that he had in the build up to last May's Wembley fight. He clearly loved being in the limelight and doesn't seem to be able to let that go.

I don't really get too sensitive about fighters bad-mouthing promoters or goading other fighters, as long as it's within reason; let's be honest, it's hard to totally burn bridges in boxing because, no matter what's gone before, if you can bring in a bit of money for them then other fighters and promoters will accommodate you. But Groves talked big in the build up to Wembley and didn't deliver - and rather than teach him a bit of humility, it seems to have gone completely the other way.

I think he's better than just becoming a fighter that everyone loves to hate, but if he carries on the way he's going now he might just cross that line and he'll end up regretting it.

Groves is also a manager now. That's great, especially as it means he keeps more of the money he generates. But turning down 2.5 million doesn't seem too clever to me. I think Groves is annoyed with the cut he got for Froch II. He forced a mandatory, but in doing so took only a 25% cut of the pie, or so I believe. Now he is telling Hearn on twitter to make a sensible offer, and that he isn't his wh*re. Saying 2.5 is not a sensible offer is in itself not sensible. Groves could demand 60/40 for a DeGale fight and that would definitely be fair, IMO. He did fight in front of 80,000. He has beaten Degale. But any more of the cake than that, nah.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:06 am

Seanusarrilius wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:I think Groves has enjoyed taking up the roll of panto villain, really. He's done a good job of it but is probably in danger of going over the top on that front now. He's badly overstating his standing and overall importance to boxing if he really believes all this 'me against the world, I can't trust anyone, they're all out to get me and I'm my own man who doesn't need anyone else' stuff that he's been talking recently.

I think he's smart enough to know that he's talking a load of cobblers, but too proud to accept that, as the loser of the fight, he can't expect to have that same profile and attention that he had in the build up to last May's Wembley fight. He clearly loved being in the limelight and doesn't seem to be able to let that go.

I don't really get too sensitive about fighters bad-mouthing promoters or goading other fighters, as long as it's within reason; let's be honest, it's hard to totally burn bridges in boxing because, no matter what's gone before, if you can bring in a bit of money for them then other fighters and promoters will accommodate you. But Groves talked big in the build up to Wembley and didn't deliver - and rather than teach him a bit of humility, it seems to have gone completely the other way.

I think he's better than just becoming a fighter that everyone loves to hate, but if he carries on the way he's going now he might just cross that line and he'll end up regretting it.

Groves is also a manager now. That's great, especially as it means he keeps more of the money he generates. But turning down 2.5 million doesn't seem too clever to me. I think Groves is annoyed with the cut he got for Froch II. He forced a mandatory, but in doing so took only a 25% cut of the pie, or so I believe. Now he is telling Hearn on twitter to make a sensible offer, and that he isn't his wh*re. Saying 2.5 is not a sensible offer is in itself not sensible. Groves could demand 60/40 for a DeGale fight and that would definitely be fair, IMO. He did fight in front of 80,000. He has beaten Degale. But any more of the cake than that, nah.

Hahaha

Why hasn't he fought Ricky Hatton? Whistle

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:08 am

Coxy001 wrote:For some reason he thinks he's really smart. Yet when he gets spanked next to have "3" in the loss column he won't be doing much than acting as padding on undercards for the next couple of years.

£2.5m for Degale, where did that come from? If that's right then I'd love to know who he's going to fight next that earns him even 20% of that.

The 2.5 million thing was mentioned in one of the IFLTV interviews in the last week or two.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:22 am

Or maybe he is confident of beating Dirrell, feels like he's earnt his mandatory shot, and knows that WITH a strap the DeGale fight will be even bigger and worth even more money.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:26 am

Earned his mandatory by doing what?

by Coxy001 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:26 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Or maybe he is confident of beating Dirrell, feels like he's earnt his mandatory shot, and knows that WITH a strap the DeGale fight will be even bigger and worth even more money.

Nah, he just knows that if he were to get spanked by Degale he'd have no career left as he has 0 fanbase outside of the UK.

by Coxy001 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:29 am

Seanusarrilius wrote:Earned his mandatory by doing what?

Taking it up the chuffer from that toothwhitened pillock Sutherland?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:30 am

Seanusarrilius wrote:Firstly, he is desperately pursuing a mandatory with the WBC, which is not only a fight he doesn't deserve, but a fight I think he loses to Dirrell. Now, I don't expect GG to feel he will lose this fight, and it isn't a forgone conclusion that he would, but this fight would likely be abroad and for not much $$$.

Seemingly, Groves is allowing his disdain for Eddie 'Strongback's estranged father' Hearn as a stalling point for a DeGale rematch. It seems Groves was offered 2.5 million for that fights, and that it would be for the IBF belt. Why wouldn't Groves want that? Biggest pay day of his career, a winnable fight, and unless he gets pancaked, an easy rubber to make later on.

Groves seems to have changed since the Froch fights. I don't just mean he has looked bad in the ring, that could be down to fighting too much last year, tbh. What I mean is in attitude. It's Groves against the world. He won't do things anybody's way except his. He signs with a German promotional outfit that offer little in Britain other than their relationship with Hearn. He won't rematch DeGale for more money than he ever made. He's over at the WBC convention chasing another mandatory.

I have time for Groves, and I am all for boxers grabbing hold of their career. I also don't mind that he is pretty public with his disdain for Hearn. Hearn is a promoter after all, so why not poke him a little. But is he making smart business decisions? I think not.

I think Groves deserves it..............Two close fights with Froch and has beaten the European champion since........

More than enough for another shot at the title............With the present criteria..

What did Bellew do to get a shot.............

what did Cleverley do to get a shot.........

What did Hamed do to get a shot...........

What did Bruno do...............................

What did Haye do to get a shot at Valuev...

Don't remember people moaning about those guys........

by Guest Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:35 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Seanusarrilius wrote:Firstly, he is desperately pursuing a mandatory with the WBC, which is not only a fight he doesn't deserve, but a fight I think he loses to Dirrell. Now, I don't expect GG to feel he will lose this fight, and it isn't a forgone conclusion that he would, but this fight would likely be abroad and for not much $$$.

Seemingly, Groves is allowing his disdain for Eddie 'Strongback's estranged father' Hearn as a stalling point for a DeGale rematch. It seems Groves was offered 2.5 million for that fights, and that it would be for the IBF belt. Why wouldn't Groves want that? Biggest pay day of his career, a winnable fight, and unless he gets pancaked, an easy rubber to make later on.

Groves seems to have changed since the Froch fights. I don't just mean he has looked bad in the ring, that could be down to fighting too much last year, tbh. What I mean is in attitude. It's Groves against the world. He won't do things anybody's way except his. He signs with a German promotional outfit that offer little in Britain other than their relationship with Hearn. He won't rematch DeGale for more money than he ever made. He's over at the WBC convention chasing another mandatory.

I have time for Groves, and I am all for boxers grabbing hold of their career. I also don't mind that he is pretty public with his disdain for Hearn. Hearn is a promoter after all, so why not poke him a little. But is he making smart business decisions? I think not.

I think Groves deserves it..............Two close fights with Froch and has beaten the European champion since........

More than enough for another shot at the title............With the present criteria..

What did Bellew do to get a shot.............

what did Cleverley do to get a shot.........

What did Hamed do to get a shot...........

What did Bruno do...............................

What did Haye do to get a shot at Valuev...

Don't remember people moaning about those guys........

You must have been on one of your retirements from the board.

Even Steffan was grumbling about nepotism when Clev's title shot was announced

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:38 am

European champions have always got title shots...........

It's the next step on the ladder.............

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:19 pm

What did Groves do to deserve the Euro shot?

Regardless, do you think Groves should take the DeGale fight? I do, especially considering he has to wait for his WBC shot. Groves seems hell bent on getting a title fight ASAP. This is one he might be able to win (although DeGale has looked far better than Groves in last two bouts)

by Gerry SA Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:21 pm

And does anyone really think the IBF would've shoehorned George Groves up their rankings to get the fight DeGale? IIRC DeGale #1, Dirrell #2, Ramirez?? then Groves? So that would mean two guys stepping aside. And considering when Groves last fought for the IBF title he was pancaked.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:37 pm

Seanusarrilius wrote:Earned his mandatory by doing what?

No idea, but that's for the WBC to decide, is it not?

You either jump through the commisions' hoops for mandatory status, however they decide it, or you try force your shot somehow (money, popularity etc). Mandatory is mandatory.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 12:53 pm

True, Toppy.

But moving away from whether he deserves the WBC shot or not, is he foolish in turning down the DeGale fight?

by TopHat24/7 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 1:19 pm

Depends.

If he's confident of winning his mandatory then no, not foolish at all as he'll make a ton more money.

Plus, a year or so ago I would have had a fight between them 60:40 in this favour, now I'm 45:55 against. And he'll be worse off fighting and losing to JdG.

Also depnds on this 4 month business. Could Dirrell max that out, and then have another 4 months off before defending against GG? If so then that feels too long for GG not to have a good testing fight.

by catchweight Mon 09 Feb 2015, 2:41 pm

Groves has already been shafted in the courtroom by Booth who used to manage him. He also then worked with Hearn and in the biggest fight of his career found himself the wrong side of a stoppage so bad and scorecards so dodgy that you could be mistaken for thinking it was a set up. If that doesnt make you paranoid (or open your eyes) not much else will. Also he clearly doesnt like/trust Hearn and I think the reason being that Hearn tried to leverage giving him a rematch against Froch with a whole load of other obligations by making Groves try and sign future deals with Matchroom. This is what Groves alluded in the build up to the rematch by mentioning the various clauses Hearn was trying to squeeze in. It could well have been the same with Hearns offer to face Degale.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 3:07 pm

You make some good points, catchweight. Have to see it from his perspective.

by bellchees Mon 09 Feb 2015, 3:51 pm

The only way I can see that Groves got his mandatory status with the WBC is they mistook him for Alvarez.

I'm not sure that a fight with Dirrell before Degale is a going to be the best idea. Firstly it's a tricky fight and certainly not a sure fire win and secondly it'll most likely be a bit of stinker and not do him any favours in the US. The fight with Degale sells on the basis of it being an all British clash, not what titles are on the line. They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions. I'm not sure it's worth the hassle going through Dirrell all things considered especially when the WBC take their sanctioning fees as well.

As others have alluded to although it looks like he's turned down a big offer to fight Degale I seriously doubt that was a 1 fight only, no strings attached offer from Matchroom, hopefully they'll work something out as it's a decent fight between 2 probably top 5 guys in the division.

by **Seanusarrilius** Mon 09 Feb 2015, 5:14 pm

Good points, Bellchees.

Dirrell fight is one he would have to take in the States (Haymon isn't going to let Dirrell come here) and one he would probably lose. It would also pay far less than a DeGale fight. The thing that worries me is not that he turned DeGale down. That could be a negotiating ploy and fair enough. But all the hostility on twitter and general Grovesness we are seeing now. Paddy even chimed in during that back and forth. A bit amateurish by all parties, tbh, including Hearn.

by tunes666 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 5:32 pm

First of all Groves is not mandatory for the IBF so for that fight he has no right to get more than the 50/50 demanded by the board (not by Hearn), he would be getting a crack at the world title with two other fighters ahead of him in the queue, which is of value in its self.

It seems rather than except this offer he is willing to wait and try and beat Anthony Dirrell who has opted for a voluntary defence.. But even if he wins that fight, if Degale wins his fight then they will both be champ and he still would not have any right to take more than 50/50 ... Especially after the press Degale would get for braking the record, winning gold and world title.

Also this would not be the first time he made bad business.. in the Froch 2 fight he turned down Hearns first offer for the rematch, and then forced a mandatory position which then lead to him getting the minimum mandatory fee which was less than Hearns original offer..

But I just think its a case of Groves fancying his chances with Dirrell more so than Groves, and knowing the fight will only get bigger the more they keep winning..
I think Groves would be more winnable for Degale than Dirrell, I am a bit worried if the Andrea Dirrell fight goes ahead.. He has the style to counter Degale and has more experience.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 09 Feb 2015, 5:35 pm

Were we talking about Andre then it might have some risk attached to it but we're not so think Groves rightfully is very confident of winning, think he wins convincingly myself.

by milkyboy Mon 09 Feb 2015, 5:42 pm

I don't know that an anthony dirrell fight would be a stinker, an andre dirrell fight might be. Groves has had quite a bit of sparring with both dirrells, so he knows what he's letting himself in for and so do they. If i recall, they were complimentary about him but said he needed to work on his defence, so i guess they both hit him a bit!

I don't particularly rate anthony, he lacks his brothers speed and skills but the bika fights showed he's not a quitter. I think groves at his best can out box him, but its not a gimme, particularly away from home.

Should he take degale now? My guess is his thinking is similar to khan chasing anyone except brook.... if he loses, he'll still get the brook fight because of his name over here and an all british clash... same for groves with degale if he loses to dirrell. But if groves fights degale and loses where does he go... arthur abraham maybe as he's with sauerland? If he fights dirrell and wins, then groves and degale have an even bigger 'unification' fight... assuming degale wins the ibf.

Personally, as you never know what's around the corner in life, i'd take the degale fight if the money is life altering. Too many variables otherwise, but i see the logic in groves chasing dirrell first.

by tunes666 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 5:43 pm

bellchees wrote: They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions.

Hu???, if you win a belt then you own than belt and the title it gives you. Degale has been calling Froch out for months and months and Froch has dropped the title in order to avoid the fight, what's Degale meant to do? kidnap his wife and ask for a ransom?

If Degale and Groves both beat the Dirrell brothers they are as worthy as any other champ. I would say particularly in Degales case as Andrea Dirrell is a very good fighter who actually Gave Froch a closer fight than Groves did in Froches own back yard.. Will they go on to be GREAT champs like Ward and Froch?, that would be left for them to prove...

by bellchees Mon 09 Feb 2015, 7:24 pm

tunes666 wrote:
bellchees wrote: They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions.

Hu???, if you win a belt then you own than belt and the title it gives you. Degale has been calling Froch out for months and months and Froch has dropped the title in order to avoid the fight, what's Degale meant to do? kidnap his wife and ask for a ransom?

If Degale and Groves both beat the Dirrell brothers they are as worthy as any other champ. I would say particularly in Degales case as Andrea Dirrell is a very good fighter who actually Gave Froch a closer fight than Groves did in Froches own back yard.. Will they go on to be GREAT champs like Ward and Froch?, that would be left for them to prove...

It's not Degales fault that he couldn't get Froch in the ring but I find it hard to accept him as champion of anything when he's not fought anyone who's even a genuine top 10 guy in the division. The Groves fight was before either were in or around world level and after that he's been in with Euro level guys. Either of them beat Andre Dirrell then fair enough that is an excellent win as he is as talented as anyone in the division and if he gets his head screwed on could be one to challenge Ward. Anthony Dirrell with the WBC title is much more beatable but would be the best guy on Degales record by some way and Groves best win if he could pull it off. I'd still find it hard to call either of them a proper champion if the were unifying the WBC and IBF belts as I'd pick Ward to beat them both on the same night.

by milkyboy Mon 09 Feb 2015, 7:40 pm

tunes666 wrote:
bellchees wrote: They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions.

Hu???, if you win a belt then you own than belt and the title it gives you. Degale has been calling Froch out for months and months and Froch has dropped the title in order to avoid the fight, what's Degale meant to do? kidnap his wife and ask for a ransom?

If Degale and Groves both beat the Dirrell brothers they are as worthy as any other champ. I would say particularly in Degales case as Andrea Dirrell is a very good fighter who actually Gave Froch a closer fight than Groves did in Froches own back yard.. Will they go on to be GREAT champs like Ward and Froch?, that would be left for them to prove...

think you'll find dave has already done that, but he's not asking for a ransom

by tunes666 Mon 09 Feb 2015, 9:25 pm

bellchees wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
bellchees wrote: They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions.

Hu???, if you win a belt then you own than belt and the title it gives you. Degale has been calling Froch out for months and months and Froch has dropped the title in order to avoid the fight, what's Degale meant to do? kidnap his wife and ask for a ransom?

If Degale and Groves both beat the Dirrell brothers they are as worthy as any other champ. I would say particularly in Degales case as Andrea Dirrell is a very good fighter who actually Gave Froch a closer fight than Groves did in Froches own back yard.. Will they go on to be GREAT champs like Ward and Froch?, that would be left for them to prove...

It's not Degales fault that he couldn't get Froch in the ring but I find it hard to accept him as champion of anything when he's not fought anyone who's even a genuine top 10 guy in the division. The Groves fight was before either were in or around world level and after that he's been in with Euro level guys. Either of them beat Andre Dirrell then fair enough that is an excellent win as he is as talented as anyone in the division and if he gets his head screwed on could be one to challenge Ward. Anthony Dirrell with the WBC title is much more beatable but would be the best guy on Degales record by some way and Groves best win if he could pull it off. I'd still find it hard to call either of them a proper champion if the were unifying the WBC and IBF belts as I'd pick Ward to beat them both on the same night.

Im not sure what you talking about, Froch dropped the belt and Degale will either fight the 3rd 4th or 5th ranked opponent for the belt... all of which are very hard fights. If he beats any of them then he is a worthy champ. And Anthony Dirrell is not a push over either so if Groves beats him then he to would have earned the belt..

Degale is not going to turn into Froch 2 over night but it only takes one fight to become a champ...

by TopHat24/7 Tue 10 Feb 2015, 6:02 am

tunes666 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
bellchees wrote: They can bring all the belts they like to the ring but but even most casual fans will know unless either of them won them from Froch or Ward there are at least 2 better fighters in the division and they're not real champions.

Hu???, if you win a belt then you own than belt and the title it gives you. Degale has been calling Froch out for months and months and Froch has dropped the title in order to avoid the fight, what's Degale meant to do? kidnap his wife and ask for a ransom?

If Degale and Groves both beat the Dirrell brothers they are as worthy as any other champ. I would say particularly in Degales case as Andrea Dirrell is a very good fighter who actually Gave Froch a closer fight than Groves did in Froches own back yard.. Will they go on to be GREAT champs like Ward and Froch?, that would be left for them to prove...

It's not Degales fault that he couldn't get Froch in the ring but I find it hard to accept him as champion of anything when he's not fought anyone who's even a genuine top 10 guy in the division. The Groves fight was before either were in or around world level and after that he's been in with Euro level guys. Either of them beat Andre Dirrell then fair enough that is an excellent win as he is as talented as anyone in the division and if he gets his head screwed on could be one to challenge Ward. Anthony Dirrell with the WBC title is much more beatable but would be the best guy on Degales record by some way and Groves best win if he could pull it off. I'd still find it hard to call either of them a proper champion if the were unifying the WBC and IBF belts as I'd pick Ward to beat them both on the same night.

Im not sure what you talking about, Froch dropped the belt and Degale will either fight the 3rd 4th or 5th ranked opponent for the belt... all of which are very hard fights. If he beats any of them then he is a worthy champ. And Anthony Dirrell is not a push over either so if Groves beats him then he to would have earned the belt..

Degale is not going to turn into Froch 2 over night but it only takes one fight to become a champ...

1) He 'WILL' fight, thus acknowledging Bellchees's point that DeGale hasn't fought anyone near world level yet (unless you count his [LOSS] to GG, but again neither we world level then either); and

2) He STILL would be a champ in name only, like Andy Lee or Darren Barker or Cotto @ 160, as not only has he not beaten the divisional #1, he hasn't beaten the divsional #2 either!

by tunes666 Tue 10 Feb 2015, 2:33 pm

All irelivant though, who did Groves fight pre Froch that merited a shot? much less than Degales opponents now, yet he forced a rematch with Froch.

Who Degale fought? His last two fights have been against top 10 rankings, he was mandatory before has last fight against Periban...

It seems you just wanted him to fight a world class fighter before he got his shot.
not very good management.

It seems you are confident he will win the strap so are planning excuses. Don't you worry, the three fighters he could face are all hard fights and no stroll in the park...

Degale has been fighter good Euro level fighters now for a while now.. to make out he should not be fighting for a belt he is mandatory for just because the champ ducked him is just hater talk.

As for Groves he had two title shots and lost, Degales turn.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 10 Feb 2015, 2:36 pm

I really hate the term ducked, Froch DID NOT duck Degale.

by bellchees Tue 10 Feb 2015, 3:32 pm

tunes666 wrote:All irelivant though, who did Groves fight pre Froch that merited a shot? much less than Degales opponents now, yet he forced a rematch with Froch.

Who Degale fought? His last two fights have been against top 10 rankings, he was mandatory before has last fight against Periban...

It seems you just wanted him to fight a world class fighter before he got his shot.
not very good management.

It seems you are confident he will win the strap so are planning excuses. Don't you worry, the three fighters he could face are all hard fights and no stroll in the park...

Degale has been fighter good Euro level fighters now for a while now.. to make out he should not be fighting for a belt he is mandatory for just because the champ ducked him is just hater talk.

As for Groves he had two title shots and lost, Degales turn.

Are you his manager or a fan? I don't care if it's good management or not but I just think a fighter should have to fight someone at world level before being considered a world champion as it's the bloody point of sport!

His last two fights have been against guys in the top 10 of the IBF rankings not genuine top 10 rated Super Middleweights, there's a huge difference. Salita was ranked #1 with the WBA when he fought Khan but if you can find anyone who actually believes he was ever a top ten fighter I'll eat my hat.

Degale has worked his way to mandatory status and fair play to him for doing so, but he won't be a proper world champion until he either beats Ward, who is clearly the best at the weight by some distance and the only guy with a genuine claim to be THE champion at the weight or if Degale beats some other well rated guys, like himself, while Ward remains inactive or fights bums.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 10 Feb 2015, 6:16 pm

Groves is getting it....Degale is getting it....Froch and Khan are getting slaughtered on other threads...

Brits love to stick the boot in to their own don't they..

by TopHat24/7 Wed 11 Feb 2015, 5:19 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Groves is getting it....Degale is getting it....Froch and Khan are getting slaughtered on other threads...

Brits love to stick the boot in to their own don't they..

Meanwhile the Yanks love & support convicted murderer Amanda Knox just because she's American.

I know which side of the moral spectrum I'd rather be on.

by TopHat24/7 Wed 11 Feb 2015, 5:24 am

tunes666 wrote:All irelivant though, who did Groves fight pre Froch that merited a shot? much less than Degales opponents now, yet he forced a rematch with Froch.

Who Degale fought? His last two fights have been against top 10 rankings, he was mandatory before has last fight against Periban...

Who has DeGale fought that's any better than the few GG did in the lead up to Froch??

Periban is the only half decent guy he's fought since LOSING to Groves and even Periban is only Top10 'ranked' in silly commision rankings, not any actual independent list.

GG 'forced a remtach with Froch' on the basis that he handed the undisputed world #2 his arse for the majority of rounds before an inexcusable disgraceful stoppage. Prior opponenents had nothing to do with, so stop talking out your arris, again.

by tunes666 Wed 11 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
tunes666 wrote:All irelivant though, who did Groves fight pre Froch that merited a shot? much less than Degales opponents now, yet he forced a rematch with Froch.

Who Degale fought? His last two fights have been against top 10 rankings, he was mandatory before has last fight against Periban...

Who has DeGale fought that's any better than the few GG did in the lead up to Froch??

Periban is the only half decent guy he's fought since LOSING to Groves and even Periban is only Top10 'ranked' in silly commision rankings, not any actual independent list.

GG 'forced a remtach with Froch' on the basis that he handed the undisputed world #2 his arse for the majority of rounds before an inexcusable disgraceful stoppage. Prior opponenents had nothing to do with, so stop talking out your arris, again.

both fights Degale has just had were more high risk than anything Groves has had bar Froch. And it was you you claimed Degale has not fought anyone which is the I lay reason I mentioned Groves.

Gonzales was also a top five challenger and one of the USAs prospects, if you knew anything about boxing you admit it was a decent win.

Groves was stopped 2 times in both fights against Froch, faltering at the same point in the fight, are you still crying about when the reff did not let Froch hit him two more times?, yes it was an early stoppage but not half as outrageous as Groves and all his fans went on about just to get the rematch . Froch was poor in the first fight and still managed the win, in the second Fight he knocked him unconscious, are you saying Groves merits a third go? while coming out with utter bullocks that Degale does not
even Merit one?

pull your tongue out of Mr Groves's ring.

by **hampo17** Wed 11 Feb 2015, 2:41 pm

Thing with the Gonzales win is this Tunes, Gonzales was hyped up massively and when push came to shove that hype bubble popped pretty quickly. If he goes on to do absolutely nothing with his career, that win certainly doesn't become a good win, it just becomes a win over an over-hyped American fighter, of whom there are plenty. As for the Periban fight, the guy had lost two of his previous three fights before Degale, so I'm sure most will agree that win doesn't mean a whole lot.

by tunes666 Wed 11 Feb 2015, 9:13 pm

hampo171 wrote:Thing with the Gonzales win is this Tunes, Gonzales was hyped up massively and when push came to shove that hype bubble popped pretty quickly. If he goes on to do absolutely nothing with his career, that win certainly doesn't become a good win, it just becomes a win over an over-hyped American fighter, of whom there are plenty. As for the Periban fight, the guy had lost two of his previous three fights before Degale, so I'm sure most will agree that win doesn't mean a whole lot.

Yeah right.., So he was hyped, then Degale beats him and he is nothing?, it was a risky fight to take. Also Periban may well have lost some fights but one was a very close fight against a world champ...

The wins are not really the main thing anyway, as he was the favourite, but it was the manner in how he won. He took them apart and stopped them when they have never been stopped before... When that happens you deserve a shot at the top fighters and if you can get a world title shot in the process...

Anyone who does not think over Degales career that he has not earned a world title shot, simply does not know what their talking about...

by **hampo17** Wed 11 Feb 2015, 11:35 pm

It's not that Degale beat him that dropped his stock so badly mate, it was that he looked like a rank amateur in the ring and got rocked by the first punch of the fight against a guy not known for one punch power.

Something tells me if roles were reversed and it was Groves who had done what Degale has, you'd be saying exactly what I'm saying. You're not the most objective person on the subject.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 12 Feb 2015, 6:15 am

tunes666 wrote:
hampo171 wrote:Thing with the Gonzales win is this Tunes, Gonzales was hyped up massively and when push came to shove that hype bubble popped pretty quickly. If he goes on to do absolutely nothing with his career, that win certainly doesn't become a good win, it just becomes a win over an over-hyped American fighter, of whom there are plenty. As for the Periban fight, the guy had lost two of his previous three fights before Degale, so I'm sure most will agree that win doesn't mean a whole lot.

Yeah right.., So he was hyped, then Degale beats him and he is nothing?, it was a risky fight to take. Also Periban may well have lost some fights but one was a very close fight against a world champ...

The wins are not really the main thing anyway, as he was the favourite, but it was the manner in how he won. He took them apart and stopped them when they have never been stopped before... When that happens you deserve a shot at the top fighters and if you can get a world title shot in the process...

Anyone who does not think over Degales career that he has not earned a world title shot, simply does not know what their talking about...

To adopt your own vernacular, pull your toungue out of JdG's ringhole, you've been embarassed enough already.

by milkyboy Thu 12 Feb 2015, 8:15 am

It's not possible to really rate the Gonzales performance until we see whether Gonzales fades into obscurity or has a decent career though we can hazard a guess as to which looks more likely. On paper, periban was a guy who degale should have beaten but you would expect it to be hard work. The guy who turned up looked flabby and uninterested.

On paper, they were tougher opposition and riskier fights than groves had... And he dealt with what was put in front of him better than groves did. Which is pretty much why most people are leaning towards degale being favourite if they meet now... A year ago people thought groves had moved on and degale stagnated. That's boxing.

Has degale earned a title shot? Well there's a proliferation of belts, so as much as anyone needs to these days I'd have thought... And more than Paul smith.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 12 Feb 2015, 9:09 am

Don't see as Periban is any better/more impressive than Johnson, main difference being the Road Warrior is a ton more durable so of cours Periban would be easier to stop.

And unless Gonzales goes on to do something spectacular, I don't see that as any more an impressive win than Alcoba - a guy who'd only lost to Sturm and Stevenson previously.

by milkyboy Thu 12 Feb 2015, 9:36 am

... i was referring to their last two opponents toppy.

Johnson was well past his sell by, but clearly a cut above periban as a fighter. Periban had never been stopped so i'm not sure how you can make an assessment on how easy he would be to stop. He fought jack and bika in very close fights, bika still appears to be a handful, jack is considered a contender, he was beaten by love who was another american next big thing (until he got sparked!). Periban was a good test on paper for degale. Even if he wasn't in practice.

But if periban got a title shot, guys he's been in close fights with are getting shots, why shouldn't degale... in the modern climate. Who did kel brook beat, paul smith beat infact any of macklin, murray, lee or barker before their first, and in some cases second shots?

by TopHat24/7 Thu 12 Feb 2015, 10:15 am

Not saying Periban wasn't a good/respectable fight and expected to be a test. Pinnacle of JdG's career to date, IMO. But as shopworn as he was I don't think it's any better than GG's versus Johnson, especially as he looked better than Froch had only 1 or 2 fights earlier.

by tunes666 Fri 13 Feb 2015, 5:08 pm

hampo171 wrote:It's not that Degale beat him that dropped his stock so badly mate, it was that he looked like a rank amateur in the ring and got rocked by the first punch of the fight against a guy not known for one punch power.

Something tells me if roles were reversed and it was Groves who had done what Degale has, you'd be saying exactly what I'm saying. You're not the most objective person on the subject.

He was not rocked by the first punch of the fight, he thought he could walk degale down and eventually got stung.. simple as that. It was maybe a slightly early stoppage but it was clear he was not going to be able to do it.

And I think you will find I have been very fair to Groves, I dont really like him and do not think he is as good as Groves fans make out But he is a good fighter. Take away Froch and Degale has had the more risky fights... But he got his mandatory shot and had another go due to how the fight turned out. Groves fans do not think Degale has earned a shot? Not sure where they are coming from, Degale was Euro champ the next fight after Groves... a fight its self that could have merited a rematch... down to how close it was.

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