A disgrace to football

http://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2015/feb/17/chelsea-fans-prevent-black-man-boarding-paris-metro-video

Identify them and ban them for life

They're not a disgrace to football because they aren't football fans. They're idiots going abroad for a day out.

Marky wrote:They're not a disgrace to football because they aren't football fans. They're idiots going abroad for a day out.

How do you know they weren't football fans? That's like someone saying an Islamic terrorist isn't a Muslim. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

You might want to disown them, but it doesn't mean they aren't football fans. You can still be racist and be a football fan, just as you can be not racist and a football fan. Being a football fan, in no way prevents you being racist. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Why would they need to go abroad to express their racism?

I'd wager they went to game, and are football fans. They will have been around in the old days when this thing was acceptable and happened at every game. They make the English look pathetic and it is no wonder the English are hated when you have clowns like this.

Their faces, or at least some, where captured on camera so it shouldn't be too hard to identify them if action really is to be taken.

The bigger question is;

Why was John Terry even travelling on the Paris Metro?

super_realist wrote:

Marky wrote:They're not a disgrace to football because they aren't football fans. They're idiots going abroad for a day out.

How do you know they weren't football fans? That's like someone saying an Islamic terrorist isn't a Muslim.

That would also be my opinion by the way. Not a real one at least. Not real football fans being racist thugs and not real Muslims blowing up shìt.

Marky wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Marky wrote:They're not a disgrace to football because they aren't football fans. They're idiots going abroad for a day out.

How do you know they weren't football fans? That's like someone saying an Islamic terrorist isn't a Muslim.

That would also be my opinion by the way. Not a real one at least. Not real football fans being racist thugs and not real Muslims blowing up shìt.

Just because they don't fit your ideal of a football fan (or any other no true Scotsman fallacy) doesn't mean they aren't one. It doesn't mean Football can use that as an excuse to absolve themselves and wipe their hands. Football has to take collective responsibility for it, whether they like it or not.

They're a minority tarnishing the reputation of the vast majority, of course we can wash our hands of them, its called a banning order.

Marky wrote:They're a minority tarnishing the reputation of the vast majority, of course we can wash our hands of them, its called a banning order.

Obviously, what I mean is you can't just say "they're not real football fans, so it's nothing to do with us"

I don't see the need to include football in this. They're scum.

Unfortunately, some people are just bellends, regardless of religion, sport etc.

Just saw this on SSN

They are a disgrace. Just fkng pathetic.

How sad in this day and age that this goes on.

GSC wrote:I don't see the need to include football in this. They're scum.

Unfortunately, some people are just bellends, regardless of religion, sport etc.

Exactly.

super_realist wrote:

Marky wrote:They're a minority tarnishing the reputation of the vast majority, of course we can wash our hands of them, its called a banning order.

Obviously, what I mean is you can't just say "they're not real football fans, so it's nothing to do with us"

Great. I never said that by the way.

If I'd been shown that video knowing none of the details, and told to guess which of the top 6teams fans that was, I would have guessed Chelsea without a doubt

Horrible club, horrible fans

And i'm not even particularly a fan of any of the big teams so this isn't based on club rivalry

Wonder if Chelsea will get some black fans to back them up, or tell everyone that these "fans" were just repeating sarcastically what the man they pushed off the train had said to them.

Utter c u next tuesdays

Marky wrote:

GSC wrote:I don't see the need to include football in this. They're scum.

Unfortunately, some people are just bellends, regardless of religion, sport etc.

Exactly.

You could say that if it happened on a normal night, but it happened on a night when a British team were playing in the city and there were thousands of fans there. Now, they might be undesirable, they might be unwanted and while it would be nice to brush it under the carpet, you can't, like it or not, it's a football problem directly, or indirectly, they are still associated with Chelsea even if you would like to disown them and it has to be addressed.

Difficult I know, and there are idiotic elements in every aspect of society, but if football doesn't take action as a collective body, then who will?

Not entirely sure you can leave football out of it when they're chanting about being Chelsea fans, it is historically the type of character football has attracted. Thankfully Chelsea have said that if they are identified action will be taken.

Maybe these guys all used the same dentist?

Colin Murray just worded it how I should have.

These people just attach themselves to whatever they can as an excuse to spout their hatred, be it sports or religion.

Also, just have to say, while its awful and atrocious that this chanting happened, the national reaction has been WAY over the top, its awful but its not as bad as racially motivated murders or physical assaults. The reaction is as if they cut the guy's head off.

I also agree with that last point. Its deplorable, but there are worse things in life than missing a train

Not just missing a train is it, and wording it as such downplays just how bad this is. Plus of course the media are going to go over the top, I can only imagine how this story will be reported around Europe with media outlets calling the English racists.

hampo171 wrote:Not just missing a train is it, and wording it as such downplays just how bad this is. Plus of course the media are going to go over the top, I can only imagine how this story will be reported around Europe with media outlets calling the English racists.

And indeed they should, because that ARE racists....

It is exactly because of the racism that pervades the English football fan community why I've stopped going to football matches in this country.

I feel much safer at cricket matches and athletics meets in England than I do at football grounds. Until the English football community starts taking issues like this seriously, and issues like the lack of black managers seriously, then racism will always be a part of English football.

Are you saying that all English people are racists or all football fans? I'm English and a huge football fan, been going to games since I was 6 years old, and am in no way racist, I'd also bet 99% of the English football fans on the forum are the same as me.

You feel safer at cricket grounds, ive been to games involving India at Old Trafford and I can tell you, I felt safer at football games against Milwall than I did at the cricket.

Is racism still really that bad at football these days???

I've taken my kids to a couple of games over the last year (one was Derby/Forest this season) and haven't heard much at all.

There's always going to be pockets of idiots but to say it pervades the football community is wrong and directs the problem away from why idiots like this think it's okay to talk like that in a public setting no less.

Ban them from football for life so football sets a lesson and then bring the force of public laws on their heads too.

English football fans being racist abroad...what's new?

Steffan having an agenda against the english

.........whats new

Derbymanc wrote:Steffan having an agenda against the english

.........whats new

Well maybe if English football fans didn't act like this then people wouldn't have an "agenda" with them

Just a thought...

It not a disgrace to football. I could go to Australia & do it wearing an English cricket top, does that mean it's a disgrace to Cricket? No. This is an isolated incident, relatively rare, these people have no association with English football, they are just run of the mill scum/thugs. We don't have a serious racial issue in this country, unlike Italy etc, when I've gone to games, it's been fine.

LiamB wrote:they are just run of the mill scum

I thought it was Chelsea fans not Millscum (who are even more racist)

It's not that isolated, if you go to Russia, Italy, Croatia, Czech Republic, Poland or Turkey then racism is pretty common to football.

Those guilty last night have EXACTLY the same association with football as any other fan, they are just racist in addition. They are football fans, just not very nice ones.

Steffan wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Steffan having an agenda against the english

.........whats new

Well maybe if English football fans didn't act like this then people wouldn't have an "agenda" with them

Just a thought...

Yet I haven't seen you pull up Cardiff/Swansea fans for it, nor have I seen you pull up Italian/Spanish/Eastern European footlball

You can't pull the racist card whilst being racist at the same time

SR you summed it up pretty good there but we need to get away from trying to pin it on the football side of ti as that takes away the issue of it being a horrible racist incident regardless of who (football, rugby, cricket, boxing, crocheting, sewing, businessman, benefits claimant etc) perpetrated it.
Lambast the people, not the sport (Unless of course the sport then does nothing about it, then it becomes a big issue.)

I'm not pinning it on football, I'm sure they'd be racist anyway, but they are representing football fans whether we like it or not.

Sport, and football in particular is utterly appalling at dealing with racist issues. The fines and bans are derisory, and it is clear it does almost nothing to counteract it.

These guys, because of the situation are seen as football fans who are racist, I'm not sure how you can attempt to take football out of it. They are representing football, and football needs to deal with people like that far more strongly than they do.
It's no use saying "no real football fans would do that", because it's clear they do.

The bottom line is they are English football fans. How anyone can deny this is baffling

Here is some close up footage of the racist English fans:

Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

Yes, a disgrace. I know these are Chelsea fans, but I hope the club doesn't get fined for this.

super_realist wrote:Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

I agree with you. While places like England and the Ukraine are major problems with racist football fans it happens in other countries as well and in other sports

Stella wrote:Yes, a disgrace. I know these are Chelsea fans, but I hope the club doesn't get fined for this.

The club has an endless pot of money so a fine is nothing. Ban Chelsea from Europe for a couple of seasons maybe? That will get the message across

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

I agree with you. While places like England and the Ukraine are major problems with racist football fans it happens in other countries as well and in other sports

Do we (England) have a major problem with it?

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:Yes, a disgrace. I know these are Chelsea fans, but I hope the club doesn't get fined for this.

The club has an endless pot of money so a fine is nothing. Ban Chelsea from Europe for a couple of seasons maybe? That will get the message across

Is it the club's fault. It happened on a train, outside of any Football stadium.

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:Yes, a disgrace. I know these are Chelsea fans, but I hope the club doesn't get fined for this.

The club has an endless pot of money so a fine is nothing. Ban Chelsea from Europe for a couple of seasons maybe? That will get the message across

Is it the club's fault. It happened on a train, outside of any Football stadium.

Well you're the one who suggested that the club gets fined...

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

I agree with you. While places like England and the Ukraine are major problems with racist football fans it happens in other countries as well and in other sports

Do we (England) have a major problem with it?

Well that's what the footage suggests anyway. Along with other documentaries about English fans abroad

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:Yes, a disgrace. I know these are Chelsea fans, but I hope the club doesn't get fined for this.

The club has an endless pot of money so a fine is nothing. Ban Chelsea from Europe for a couple of seasons maybe? That will get the message across

Is it the club's fault. It happened on a train, outside of any Football stadium.

Well you're the one who suggested that the club gets fined...

I'm just assuming they will. I don't think they should.

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

I agree with you. While places like England and the Ukraine are major problems with racist football fans it happens in other countries as well and in other sports

Do we (England) have a major problem with it?

Well that's what the footage suggests anyway. Along with other documentaries about English fans abroad  

Which docs are they? Ones with Danny Dyer?

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:Steffan, There's no point in trying to make it appear that it is an English problem. There are racist football (or any other pursuit) fans in every country.

I agree with you. While places like England and the Ukraine are major problems with racist football fans it happens in other countries as well and in other sports

Do we (England) have a major problem with it?

Well that's what the footage suggests anyway. Along with other documentaries about English fans abroad  

Which docs are they? Ones with Danny Dyer?

Ones that have been on in the past. Although to be fair they do say that English football fans abroad have starting getting better so maybe they are seeing the error of their ways

The last time English fans came to Cardiff they refrained from throwing plastic sheep around and singing anti-Welsh songs as well unlike the time before that

super_realist wrote:I'm not pinning it on football, I'm sure they'd be racist anyway, but they are representing football fans whether we like it or not.

Sport, and football in particular is utterly appalling at dealing with racist issues. The fines and bans are derisory, and it is clear it does almost nothing to counteract it.

These guys, because of the situation are seen as football fans who are racist, I'm not sure how you can attempt to take football out of it. They are representing football, and football needs to deal with people like that far more strongly than they do.
It's no use saying "no real football fans would do that", because it's clear they do.

A real football fan to me is someone that goes to watch their team play, with friends/family.

Have a good time, enjoy it. then go and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Not to go for trouble and be racist.

westisbest wrote:

super_realist wrote:I'm not pinning it on football, I'm sure they'd be racist anyway, but they are representing football fans whether we like it or not.

Sport, and football in particular is utterly appalling at dealing with racist issues. The fines and bans are derisory, and it is clear it does almost nothing to counteract it.

These guys, because of the situation are seen as football fans who are racist, I'm not sure how you can attempt to take football out of it. They are representing football, and football needs to deal with people like that far more strongly than they do.
It's no use saying "no real football fans would do that", because it's clear they do.

A real football fan to me is someone that goes to watch their team play, with friends/family.

Have a good time, enjoy it. then go and enjoy the rest of the weekend.



Not to go for trouble and be racist.

As I've already said, that's the no true Scotsman fallacy. Is a kiddie fiddling priest not a Catholic?

We may not like what they do, but it doesn't mean they're not football fans. Football needs to stop trying to distance themselves from it, and do something about it. I've no idea how they would, but for a start, punishments from UEFA/FIFA need to amount to a lot more than a niggardly 30k fine.

I once went to Chelsea vs West Brom and got the tube afterwards wearing my Albion shirt under my jacket. Despite it not being visible, the abuse I was subjected to by a large number of Chelsea-supporting thugs was unbelievable. Apparently if you don't wear a Chelsea shirt you're a Baggie ****, a ******* ******, you mother is a ******* ****, and you should kill yourself because you're such a ****.

That was all in the first 10 seconds of being on that coach. Not to mention the remaining 8 or so minutes until I got off the tube (at an earlier stop than planned) and the physical pushing, throwing of stuff at me.

I have little time for any club bar my own. I have little time for most fans, even of my own club. But Chelsea FC and its fans, combined, are the biggest evil in British football, based on my own experiences.

It happened. Poor guy. Fifa can yell Fair Play till they blue in the face... Its a noble idea, and one that shouldnt be stopped, but racism starts at home. Little Pedro/Petr/Peter hearing what nasty so and sos black people are is always going to have a larger impact than a brief speech by the national captain which gets drowned out. Still, this shouldnt, as it sometimes does, cross out all the progress. A handful of idiots in a travelling party of a couple thousand is not bad going

Perhaps there ought to be fines for adults wearing football shirts. It is the least flattering and least tasteful garment I could possibly think of wearing.