Andre Ward vs.....

First topic message reminder :

Ricardo Mayorga.

Don't care how long he's been out of the ring this is a BS fight. Was only two fights ago that Cotto stopped him.

How about fighting a live opponent? If a prospect was fighting Mayorga he'd be crucified, Ward is no different.

hampo171 wrote:How about fighting a live opponent? If a prospect was fighting Mayorga he'd be crucified, Ward is no different.

Ward has already been crucified

ShahenshahG wrote:

hampo171 wrote:How about fighting a live opponent? If a prospect was fighting Mayorga he'd be crucified, Ward is no different.

Ward has already been crucified

Given the comments on the cotto thread, its quite ironic that you've nicked my awful joke from earlier in the thread.

milkyboy wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

hampo171 wrote:How about fighting a live opponent? If a prospect was fighting Mayorga he'd be crucified, Ward is no different.

Ward has already been crucified

Given the comments on the cotto thread, its quite ironic that you've nicked my awful joke from earlier in the thread.

Haha Some opportunities should never be missed

hampo171 wrote:Tunes it is an unknown whether Ward is still one of the best, he may well be but Mayorga isn't going to show us whether this lay off has done him any harm, there will still be questions should this fight happen.

So you think Ward VS Froch will be a close fight?

If Ward was fighting on Boxnation or SKY on a warren or Hearn card................Hampo would love this fight..

and his autograph book would be open...

Got nothing to do with the channel Truss, and by trying to make a clever statement you've made yourself look a complete five knuckle shuffle.

Tunes, I've never said that fight would be close, what you can not deny is that its a live opponent. Honestly if you think him fighting Mayorga is even close to a good fight, you have much lower standards than 99% the boxing fans out there. The discussion of this fight has been met with an extremely poor response, you're the only person I've seen or spoken to who thinks it's acceptable.

Why is Joshua fighting Thompson really bad and a waste of time, but Ward Vs Mayorga is fine?

Tunes, the only man that could in the same breath state that Ward is so good he'd still hand Froch, the division #2, his backside but equally apparently needs a warm-up/comeback fight so poor a 10 fight novice would be embarassed to take it

Have no problem with any fighter taking a tune up before a big fight ..............

Chavez did it all the time...

Who remembers Craig Houk 51-23............Before defending against Kamau.........(Toppy won't)

Some of you guys are saying that Ward might not have it anymore.........Maybe he'd like to see how sharp he is too.....

Again though Truss, why is Ward allowed a 'tune up' fight (lets be honest, it's not even a tune up fight) yet Joshua isn't allowed to test himself against better opposition before stepping up properly.

One is supposed to be one of the best boxers out there, the other is still a novice YET it's the novice getting slated

What does beating a 41 year old blown up light welterweight prove? This is little more than an exhibition fight, you moan all the time about one sided fights but you're defending this one.

True, but Chavez fought regularly Truss - incredibly regularly by modern standards. He was never out of the ring for long and basically always had a legitimate fight on the horizon.

On the other hand, Ward has boxed twice in over three years. What people are concerned about is that he takes a Mayorga tune up but then spends another six to eight months afterwards sitting around, being coy on who he does / doesn't want to fight, letting time pass and then saying that he needs another tune up because of ring rust - and round and round we go. Nobody minded Chavez keeping busy or padding his record with journeymen because there was always a guarantee that he had a title defence (a decent one) or a big fight coming very soon afterwards. No such guarantees with Ward.

For what it's worth, I agree that Ward is well entitled to a tune up. In fact, if I was in his position I'd want one just to be sure the cobwebs have been blown away, too (albeit I think he still beats Froch without too much hassle right now). But it's a balancing act - a tune up is fine, just not against Mayorga. There's safe bets, and then there's complete freak show fights. What's wrong with fighting someone who at least belongs in the Super-Middle division and isn't the wrong side of forty? Paul Smith, Rebrasse, Steiglitz, a Bika return, Sturm, Sanchez etc - that kind of opponent would be perfectly fine, for me. A tune up isn't going to be against a title holder or one of the very best 168 pounders, but surely we should expect better than Mayorga given how infrequently we're likely to see Ward in the ring over the coming years?

Mind you, as I said before I doubt there's much validity in the rumours. But if by some chance it did happen, I think Ward would be leaving himself open to legitimate criticism.

88Chris05 wrote:True, but Chavez fought regularly Truss - incredibly regularly by modern standards. He was never out of the ring for long and basically always had a legitimate fight on the horizon.

On the other hand, Ward has boxed twice in over three years. What people are concerned about is that he takes a Mayorga tune up but then spends another six to eight months afterwards sitting around, being coy on who he does / doesn't want to fight, letting time pass and then saying that he needs another tune up because of ring rust - and round and round we go. Nobody minded Chavez keeping busy or padding his record with journeymen because there was always a guarantee that he had a title defence (a decent one) or a big fight coming very soon afterwards. No such guarantees with Ward.

For what it's worth, I agree that Ward is well entitled to a tune up. In fact, if I was in his position I'd want one just to be sure the cobwebs have been blown away, too (albeit I think he still beats Froch without too much hassle right now). But it's a balancing act - a tune up is fine, just not against Mayorga. There's safe bets, and then there's complete freak show fights. What's wrong with fighting someone who at least belongs in the Super-Middle division and isn't the wrong side of forty? Paul Smith, Rebrasse, Steiglitz, a Bika return, Sturm, Sanchez etc - that kind of opponent would be perfectly fine, for me. A tune up isn't going to be against a title holder or one of the very best 168 pounders, but surely we should expect better than Mayorga given how infrequently we're likely to see Ward in the ring over the coming years?

Mind you, as I said before I doubt there's much validity in the rumours. But if by some chance it did happen, I think Ward would be leaving himself open to legitimate criticism.

Well If Chavez fought more regularly and needed them...............You've made my point.

It doesn't say he needed them Truss?

It says people could put up with it because you knew he'd fight a decent opponent afterwards, Ward will just fight another bum and claim it as a tune up cause he won't box again for 8 months.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:True, but Chavez fought regularly Truss - incredibly regularly by modern standards. He was never out of the ring for long and basically always had a legitimate fight on the horizon.

On the other hand, Ward has boxed twice in over three years. What people are concerned about is that he takes a Mayorga tune up but then spends another six to eight months afterwards sitting around, being coy on who he does / doesn't want to fight, letting time pass and then saying that he needs another tune up because of ring rust - and round and round we go. Nobody minded Chavez keeping busy or padding his record with journeymen because there was always a guarantee that he had a title defence (a decent one) or a big fight coming very soon afterwards. No such guarantees with Ward.

For what it's worth, I agree that Ward is well entitled to a tune up. In fact, if I was in his position I'd want one just to be sure the cobwebs have been blown away, too (albeit I think he still beats Froch without too much hassle right now). But it's a balancing act - a tune up is fine, just not against Mayorga. There's safe bets, and then there's complete freak show fights. What's wrong with fighting someone who at least belongs in the Super-Middle division and isn't the wrong side of forty? Paul Smith, Rebrasse, Steiglitz, a Bika return, Sturm, Sanchez etc - that kind of opponent would be perfectly fine, for me. A tune up isn't going to be against a title holder or one of the very best 168 pounders, but surely we should expect better than Mayorga given how infrequently we're likely to see Ward in the ring over the coming years?

Mind you, as I said before I doubt there's much validity in the rumours. But if by some chance it did happen, I think Ward would be leaving himself open to legitimate criticism.

Well If Chavez fought more regularly and needed them...............You've made my point.

Chavez had what 35 world title fights in his career, a record at the time and like the old timers fought regularly to stay in shape and to stay sharp, take out all the crap and he was still fighting four times a year compared to Ward's twice in three.

So what....

Chavez is Mexican and Ward is American, got it.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Chavez is Mexican and Ward is American, got it.

I'm not knocking Chavez you prat..

You are however using his entirely different circumstances to defend Andre Ward which equates to the same thing really, if Chavez can do it why can't Ward.

I'm saying Chavez liked tuneups..................Ward probably wants one too.......

Mayorga isn't worst than a 51-23 journeyman...

Now calm down dear !

It's no better for someone that's supposed to be one of the best on the planet.

Are you missing the point entirely, Chavez had tune ups in between his four world title fights a year, Ward wants a tune up for what exactly his one fight in the next two years?

All pretty moot as Ward isn't fighting Mayorga.

If Leonard can have a tuneup against Howard............Ward can have one...........

All this moaning about a guy who If he was British would probably be the greatest fighter ever to come from these parts.

Bet posters on here wouldn't be moaning then..............Then again maybe they would as Brits p**s on all their fighters...

You need to move forward from the 80's and drop the nationalistic crap, it's not adding anything to the argument, you over-rate him far too much. You seem to forget that most see beyond a boxers nationality, you however are fixated upon it and it becomes your whole pitiful argument.

Okay....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Leonard can have a tuneup against Howard............Ward can have one...........

All this moaning about a guy who If he was British would probably be the greatest fighter ever to come from these parts.

Bet posters on here wouldn't be moaning then..............Then again maybe they would as Brits p**s on all their fighters...

Wonderfully hypocritical post from someone who uses nationality as a basis for judgement, rating & defense more than any other poster on here.....

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Leonard can have a tuneup against Howard............Ward can have one...........

All this moaning about a guy who If he was British would probably be the greatest fighter ever to come from these parts.

Bet posters on here wouldn't be moaning then..............Then again maybe they would as Brits p**s on all their fighters...

Wonderfully hypocritical post from someone who uses nationality as a basis for judgement, rating & defense more than any other poster on here.....

Not interested in you......................In fairness Hammer knows his stuff.....

What did he say about you again ??

Fighting someone who is an actually career Supermiddle weight would consitute a tune up. This is what you call a circus act.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Fighting someone who is an actually career Supermiddle weight would consitute a tune up. This is what you call a circus act.

Duran beat Barkley

All this moaning about a guy who If he was British would probably be the greatest fighter ever to come from these parts.

Bet posters on here wouldn't be moaning then..............Then again maybe they would as Brits p**s on all their fighters...

Again Truss, why does one have to back a fighter from their own shores? I supported/followed Hatton, Eubank, Bruno and co but have cheered against Hamed, Calzaghe, Groves etc etc. The "American way" probably comes about from having American Football/Baseball/Basketball whereby you don't actually compete against teams from other countries, just leads to a very insular and somewhat fearful notion that you must support the American fighter no matter what and that they're greater beyond what a lot of other people perceive them to be. That being whether he was involved in dog fighting (GMan), beats girls up (Stevenson, FMJ) and so forth.

So rather than us "peeing" on our "own" fighters I would prefer it if you referred to us as intellectually more advanced and able to subjectively apportion reason to any fighter, irregardless of whether they come from these shores on not.

Scottrf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Fighting someone who is an actually career Supermiddle weight would consitute a tune up. This is what you call a circus act.

Duran beat Barkley

Did you have to bring Duran into a debate with Trussy

PS: Duran is an all time great. Mayorga on the otherhand........

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Fighting someone who is an actually career Supermiddle weight would consitute a tune up. This is what you call a circus act.

Duran beat Barkley

Did you have to bring Duran into a debate with Trussy

PS: Duran is an all time great. Mayorga on the otherhand........

Did you have to go and mention Truss?

You will inevitably get a Rocky Fielding based retort now!

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Fighting someone who is an actually career Supermiddle weight would consitute a tune up. This is what you call a circus act.

Duran beat Barkley

Did you have to bring Duran into a debate with Trussy

PS: Duran is an all time great. Mayorga on the otherhand........

Did you have to go and mention Truss?

You will inevitably get a Rocky Fielding based retort now!

Haha I know, he honestly thinks that bothers me. Its his only ammo I guess.

I'm fighting Ward next.