RC Toulon v Leinster Rugby, 19 April

       
RC Toulon v Leinster Rugby
Sunday 19 April 2015
KO 16:15
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille

Referee: Wayne Barnes

Live on France 2 / beIN / Sky Sports

Form:

RC Toulon
5/4/15 - Toulon 32 - 18 Wasps
24/1/15 - Scarlets 3 - 26 Toulon
17/1/15 - Toulon 60 - 22 Ulster

Leinster Rugby
4/4/15 - Leinster 18 - 15 Bath
24/1/15 - Wasps 20 - 20 Leinster
17/1/15 - Leinster 50 - 8 Castres

Teams:

RC Toulon
Halfpenny; D Armitage, M Bastareaud, Gitea, Habana; Michalak, Tillous-Borde; Chiocci, Guirado, Hayman (capt); Botha, Williams; Smith, Fernandez Lobbe, Masoe.

Replacements: Orioli, Menini, Chilachava, S Armitage, Mitchell, Wulf, Claassens, Suta

Leinster Rugby
R Kearney; McFadden, Te'o, Madigan, Fitzgerald; Gopperth, Boss; Healy, Cronin, Ross, Toner, M McCarthy, J Murphy, O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: Strauss, J McGrath, Moore, Marshall, D Ryan, Reddan, G D'Arcy, Kirchner.

Massive game for Leinster's season - I'll be amazed if they can pull this off or even make a close game of it based on this seasons form - but would love to see them roll back the years here....

Halfpenny might miss that one after getting injured on his shoulder

Leinster have pretty much blown it in terms of the league, so I imagine that they'll throw absolutely everything they have into this game. SOB coming back strong at the moment will help them. Big question is whom should they get to start at 10?

George Carlin wrote:Leinster have pretty much blown it in terms of the league, so I imagine that they'll throw absolutely everything they have into this game. SOB coming back strong at the moment will help them. Big question is whom should they get to start at 10?

That might be the big question, but it’s academic, MOC will start Gopperth, no two ways about it.

If we pull this one off they can make a movie about it, it’ll be the Miracle of Marseille ™

some good analysis and reasons to be hopeful from Mike pendergast :

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/toulon-have-chinks-in-their-armour-says-mike-prendergast-1.2174518

How many games this season has Madigan played at 10? And when was the last game?

It would be unfair on the fella to make that kind of a switch at this late late stage and expect him to control a HC quarter final...... in france ....... against Toulon.......... the crowd..........and Wayne Barnes.

I'm thinking Toulon by 15-18 points

Leinster look sheepish and even when playing 'hard' in the forwards seldom look menacing enough for European standards. Like I've said in another post, MOC has taken them back to being the Genuine Ladyboys of old - can look pretty sometimes but nothing hard about them to scare any opposition.

That said, some of these players have memories of how tough this level is and how to play it. They have no conductor of worth (MOC or his coaches) but still might have one last directionless battle in them to pull something off. They'll have to rage for 80 and not let their heads sink once - just keep motoring against any odds and see what happens.

I don't have a lot of hope but also I wouldn't be all that surprised by a win for them either. They showed against Glasgow that if they get a purple patch they might get enough of a score to cling on with. Four stars on that shirt would look nice

thebandwagonsociety wrote:How many games this season has Madigan played at 10? And when was the last game?

Zebre away October.
Munster Away Stephen's Day
Ulster at home January.

3 starts at 10. (He moved to 10 in the Castres game in January in the RDS)

Jimmy Gopperth will hit 2000 minutes for Leinster this weekend. (Inc pre season friendlies) He has played in every game and played 80 in all bar these 4.

I bet Madser starts at 10 this week. They won't be expecting it anyway.

Madser starts at 10 and his first act is 10 in the bin because Barnes doesn't like where his eyes go on kickoff - he's distracted the opposition.

Fly - could easily happen. Barnes would probably tell him to go cut those sideburns as he flashes the yellow card as well.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Fly - could easily happen.  Barnes would probably tell him to go cut those sideburns as he flashes the yellow card as well.

Mister Barnes, I don't think you know what sideburns are...?

Mickado wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Fly - could easily happen.  Barnes would probably tell him to go cut those sideburns as he flashes the yellow card as well.

Mister Barnes, I don't think you know what sideburns are...?

"I still like him better than Clancy..."

Gopperth is a bit erratic, he looked that way against the Dragons. If he was behind that Toulon pack he'd probably have a stormer most weeks. Madigan starting is probably the best option. Ya'll are a bit harsh on MOC, he's still bringing home the goods to an extent...and has had to deal with a lot of injuries and call-ups to his team. Leinster will get better under him next season. This season 5th in the league and a euro-cup quarter final isn't bad.

What's the Leinster time likely to be?

The Saint wrote:Gopperth is a bit erratic, he looked that way against the Dragons. If he was behind that Toulon pack he'd probably have a stormer most weeks. Madigan starting is probably the best option. Ya'll are a bit harsh on MOC, he's still bringing home the goods to an extent...and has had to deal with a lot of injuries and call-ups to his team. Leinster will get better under him next season. This season 5th in the league and a euro-cup quarter final isn't bad.

What's the Leinster time likely to be?

Can't agree,unless we win the European Cup I will consider this season a failure.5th in the league is unacceptable we have more than enough depth and quality to make the top 3 but MoC has overseen a dramatic regression in the skill levels of our players.I'm looking forward to seeing Schmidt get these guys for a few months before the WC,I can guarantee we will see a dramatic increase in the skill levels of every player he has in the international squad.

I think all sides in Pro12 (after they get past this WC and get past the initial year of this New European Way) will probably improve in terms of attention to detail and minds fully focused back on League and Europe.

It's been a topsy turvy year for all Pro12 sides considering those two issues have loomed large.  But MOC doesn't have the temperament to put up with and work through the pressures of being with a side and players expected to fight at Pro12 level, at European top level and at International.  Big chunks of Leinster are used for all three IRFU campaigns and any ambitious coach would find the going, and the rules and regulations about player availability, tough.  
But some coaches seem to thrive when those chips are down, yet MOC doesn't seem to enjoy it at all.  He might actually find a new home himself rather than anyone else forcing his hand. He hasn't seemed to enjoy the tenure much.

I understand that the fans have very high expectations after the last 5 seasons, but from an external perspective it isn't all doom and gloom for Leinster.

The Saint wrote:I understand that the fans have very high expectations after the last 5 seasons, but from an external perspective it isn't all doom and gloom for Leinster.

It's the weariness of having a lot on our plate and no real Captain at the tiller

I think 5th (so far!!! - it might go lower still) is not acceptable. Comfortable 4th would have been reasonable but losing so many games without even fighting for most of them - not acceptable from a coach and pretty shoddy of some players who might be looking to put a hand up for bigger things to come.
Semi-finalists in the new European Contest - yeah, that's a good achievement considering the more general form of the side.

I don't think we needed to be so bad in League though to keep the flames of Europe burning. But again, you really don't know how much you can put down to a coach or to the year that's in it and the many directions certain players keep getting pulled in.

SecretFly wrote:

The Saint wrote:I understand that the fans have very high expectations after the last 5 seasons, but from an external perspective it isn't all doom and gloom for Leinster.

I think 5th (so far!!! - it might go lower still) is not acceptable.

When you have not been below 3rd in 11 years or below 2nd in 5 years (Now that's taking the league seriously) 5th is the pits.

We have played in every league final and only one not at the RDS.

A win at home to Treviso and an odd bonus point will keep us in 5th. I would hope that's not beyond us at this point.

The Saint wrote:I understand that the fans have very high expectations after the last 5 seasons, but from an external perspective it isn't all doom and gloom for Leinster.

It isn't complete doom and gloom Saint. And MOC is a very nice fella. He just isn't a top end head coach. It would be naive to think Leinster could luck out on 3 class coaches in a row (Cheika, Schmidt, O'Connor). It's a couple of items. He gets conservative in his plans when pressure comes on. He hasn't put a team out on the field in over a year that has managed to perform for a full 80 minutes (if we're lucky they are focused for 20 minutes, at best we get a half). He is very quick to lock a team down once they have a lead and look to defend it out (how many times have we had 10-14-16 point leads only to come up short). He looks to over-rely on the most senior (ie old) players. He hasn't improved or brought on the likes of Luke McGrath, Leavy, any of our centres. The academy is still producing quality (the A side does alright and the underage groups have stepped up and represented Ireland under-age quite well), just nothing has come through under MOCs watch. He has a core group of senior players that will perform on a day (no matter how little guidance or coaching they're given) so for knock out competitions he essentially has a Test side to put out on the field. That side can peak in spite of the coaching they receive. And the skill levels have regressed, especially passing. It's moved Leinster from 'top table' to more of an 'on their day' team. Set piece has improved, but breakdown is hit and miss.

He has another season to go with Leinster (contract wise), and Sexton is coming back but he will spend most the year using the extended the squad (which he hasn't developed) but will be in a far stronger position to run in the end of the season (a hc quarter and back in the pro12 playoffs is achievable with the senior squad plus a Sexton).

The real question will be who replaces him? That next coach will have a Sexton trying to put a legacy in place, a front row of Healy/Cronin/Moore/McGrath all in their prime front row years, a Toner in his prime years, Ruddock/Jordi/Conan/Leavy in their prime and an elder statesman in Heaslip who could mature into a Hill / Dayglo role. Centres could have Ringrose/Madigan/Teo. Fullback could have the end of Kearney's prime (or a Kelleher). Luke McGrath providing quick ball to Sexton while hitting the fringes and marshalling the pack. There is a lot of promise with Leinster to come yet. They just need a strong head coach that keeps them focused for 80 minutes and improves the skill/accuracy/execution.

on any given sunday (or saturday) anything can happen

ask pacino

but it would be a mighty upset for a toulon with giteau returning from injury to lose at home against leinster, with a ref who is strict at the breakdown.

plus, given i have tickets to the final, i dont honestly think leinster are or have been good enough this season to deserve a spot in the final.

i like saracens, but i would really like to see a toulon - clermont final. toulon looking for a third consecutive one, clermont looking to put demons to rest, and a possible preview of the top14 final a few weeks later.

For me I don't think any Irish side truly fears travelling away from home. Leinster have a ton of quality with a substantial amount of Irelands team coming from their squad.

Sure Toulon at home have to be favourites given the history in the tournament and playing at home. That said I don't see the pressure being on Leinster. Anything can happen here especially if Halfpenny isn't playing with that dependable boot and if Giteau turns out to be a bit rusty after a spell on the side lines. All depends if Leinster can get in front or stay in touching distance for long enough in the game to really put the pressure on them.

Personally if Leinster did happen to win this I wouldn't be overly surprised. They too have pedigree.

quinsforever wrote:plus, given i have tickets to the final, i dont honestly think leinster are or have been good enough this season to deserve a spot in the final.

i like saracens, but i would really like to see a toulon - clermont final. toulon looking for a third consecutive one, clermont looking to put demons to rest, and a possible preview of the top14 final a few weeks later.

This is the New Dawn quins. ALL teams now deserve to be where they are........

Some observers certainly weren't expecting fecking Leinster to be there again though, I'll admit that one. They certainly hadn't planned that. Let's look for an Underdog side to win to keep Neutral Interest going - isn't that the way the lingo used to go in the olden days?

i would just like to see some actual attacking rugby rather than listen to players appealing via the ref-mike for offside, not rolling away, holding on, side-entry, high tackle, obstruction, etc, etc.

thats why i would rather see two points scoring sides in the final.

quinsforever wrote:i would just like to see some actual attacking rugby rather than listen to players appealing via the ref-mike for offside, not rolling away, holding on, side-entry, high tackle, obstruction, etc, etc.

thats why i would rather see two points scoring sides in the final.

Thankfully the chances of that are slim. Apart from Saracens, the English sides are all out. Should be an entertaining spectacle.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i would just like to see some actual attacking rugby rather than listen to players appealing via the ref-mike for offside, not rolling away, holding on, side-entry, high tackle, obstruction, etc, etc.

thats why i would rather see two points scoring sides in the final.

Thankfully the chances of that are slim. Apart from Saracens, the English sides are all out. Should be an entertaining spectacle.

you are quite clearly as dumb as your posts led me to believe. I stated not two posts above that despite liking Sarries, i wanted to see toulon - clermont in the final...

I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

Cyril wrote:I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

So now the deservers don't even deserve to be in this Competition - My my, High standards indeed in this new meritocratic contest.  Now sides that play prettiest rugby but lose should go through.  

Leinster did it pretty a few times already - then the mimics tried to beat them at their own game.  So this time Leinster will try and do it boringly  It's a tall ask but sure if you get this far you might as well give it a go and no harm done when you fail.

quinsforever wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i would just like to see some actual attacking rugby rather than listen to players appealing via the ref-mike for offside, not rolling away, holding on, side-entry, high tackle, obstruction, etc, etc.

thats why i would rather see two points scoring sides in the final.

Thankfully the chances of that are slim. Apart from Saracens, the English sides are all out. Should be an entertaining spectacle.

you are quite clearly as dumb as your posts led me to believe. I stated not two posts above that despite liking Sarries, i wanted to see toulon - clermont in the final...

Hey, I agreed with you.

Cyril wrote:I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

Yeah they have looked rubbish.

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

So now the deservers don't even deserve to be in this Competition - My my, High standards indeed in this new meritocratic contest.  Now sides that play prettiest rugby but lose should go through.  

Leinster did it pretty a few times already - then the mimics tried to beat them at their own game.  So this time Leinster will try and do it boringly  It's a tall ask but sure if you get this far you might as well give it a go and no harm done when you fail.

Hey!  They deserve to be where they are (same as the rest).

We know you just want to out-Munster Munster in the grind-it-out stakes. Just to annoy 'em and all!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Cyril wrote:I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

Yeah they have looked rubbish.

I wouldn't say rubbish exactly. They've not been recognisable Leinster for a while but it's worked so far.

Good sides (with players that have been there and done it before) can sometimes get away with being below par. Who knows, they might click vs Toulon and put in a great display when they really need to.

Cyril wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Cyril wrote:I think even Leinster fans would agree that of the four sides in the semi-finals, the Irish province are currently playing the least attractive rugby. That's not to say it can't be successful rugby.

Yeah they have looked rubbish.

I wouldn't say rubbish exactly. They've not been recognisable Leinster for a while but it's worked so far.

Good sides (with players that have been there and done it before) can sometimes get away with being below par. Who knows, they might click vs Toulon and put in a great display when they really need to.

They remind me of France in the 2011 World Cup. Nobody really has any idea how they got that far and they almost won the whole thing. Many people would have said they didn't deserve it, but hey, they did something right.

I still think Leinster have looked rubbish though. In all seriousness it would be mad to disagree with people who say they have looked clueless with ball in hand.

I'd love pretty Cyril... but for now, I'd just take a bit of noble survival.  

We're playing crap stuff this season...I mean Crap with a capital C but have shown in snippets that if Toulon get complacent against us they might pay the price.  Sometimes Leinster can click for 20 minutes or so and if they do and cling to any gains made..... well, I'd be delighted they get to another final using Munster, Leicester or some vintage Leinster - or all three!

I'd even allow Barnes to help us by giving a Toulon player a yellow card for ten when everyone was expecting he'd point it at a Leinster player

But a hard fought for close loss would be noble in a sense after this season.

Yawn....its like we are playing crap, we havent a hope, we are going to get hammered....please stop copying us...

...are we going to win?...........

Great!

I believe you have a very good chance and I think Toulon will need to be at their best.

Oh I don't know ME.  I think Toulon will prepare for Leinster at their best.  They won't be expecting an easy game, they'll look at Leinster players playing at their best and try to plan to defeat that game.  That means that if Leinster show up off the pace again (like against Bath) then they'll be destroyed because Toulon won't be in a mood to take the foot off the peddle to let Leinster back in.

The ball is in Leinster's court.  They have to make Toulon play their best.

Three tries and a few penalties to Toulon in the first half with a solitary penalty from Madigan.

Then, in the second half, Leinster surge towards the Toulon line....and





Drop the ball and Ali Williams makes a 110 metre dash and scores down the other end. Followed by Giteau, et al. for another few tries.

Leinster get another kick at goal. Gopperth misses.

Full time.

Pot got his hands on MOC battle-plans. That's another fault of his. Never locks the bloody battle-plans away safely.

Pot Hale wrote:Three tries and a few penalties to Toulon in the first half with a solitary penalty from Madigan.

Then, in the second half, Leinster surge towards the Toulon line....and





Drop the ball and Ali Williams makes a 110 metre dash and scores down the other end.  Followed by Giteau, et al. for another few tries.

Leinster get another kick at goal.  Gopperth misses.

Full time.

Ali Williams can't run 110 metres.  He is 110 years old.  

Seriously, I think this will be close.  There are great names in the Toulon pack, but most are a tick past their prime.  I think their forwards can be had. Ali Williams and Bakkies are tough, street-smart players.  But they were at Queen Elizabeth's coronation.  That is Queen Elizabeth I.  
Giteau, on the other hand is playing grea - but Australia can't afford him.

Seems the whole world and their mother are writing off Leinsters chances...Leinster by 7

Leigh Halfpenny 15 Rob Kearney
Delon Armitage 14 Fergus McFadden
Mathieu Bastareaud 13 Ben Te'o
Matt Giteau 12 Ian Madigan
Bryan Habana 11 Luke Fitzgerald
Frederic Michalak 10 Jimmy Gopperth
Sebastien Tillous-Borde 9 Isaac Boss

Xavier Chiocci 1 Cian Healy
Guilhem Guirado 2 Sean Cronin
Carl Hayman (capt) 3 Mike Ross
Bakkies Botha 4 Devin Toner
Ali Williams 5 Mike McCarthy
Juan Smith 6 Jordi Murphy
Juan Fernandez Lobbe 7 Sean O'Brien
Chris Masoe 8 Jamie Heaslip (capt)

Replacements
Jean-Charles Orioli 16 Richardt Strauss
Alexandre Menini 17 Jack McGrath
Levan Chilachava 18 Martin Moore
Steffon Armitage 19 Ben Marshall
Drew Mitchell 20 Dominic Ryan
Rudi Wulf 21 Eoin Reddan
Michael Claassens 22 Gordon D'Arcy
Jocelino Suta 23 Zane Kirchner

The only one I'd let in my team would be Steffon Armitage over Dominic Ryan.

Wonder why Armitage isnt playing? I mean putting a nobody like Lobbe instead

That backrow battle will be tasty.

How flaky is Michalak these days? He certainly went through a period when he was very jumpy. Is he 'get-at'able??

And I think Mick McCarthy is a weak point in Leinster these days.


.... now he'll score three! Good man, Mick. Never let anybody talk you down.

SecretFly wrote:How flaky is Michalak these days?  He certainly went through a period when he was very jumpy.  Is he 'get-at'able??  

Possibly....but the last couple of games I saw him play he looked assured.

SecretFly wrote:How flaky is Michalak these days?  He certainly went through a period when he was very jumpy.  Is he 'get-at'able??  

not so flaky : he scored most of Toulon points in the last 2 games and had a 100% success rate on his kicking. that said, he might end up doing a hospital pass within his own 22 at some point so worth targeting.