Pre World Cup Warm Up games.

First topic message reminder :

Each nation is taking a different route in preparation for the RWC. The intensity of the games, the types of teams selected.

This weekend saw Wales and Ireland try a good number of players on the select oral fringes. Next week Lancaster aims to pick a strong team vs France, though there will inevitably be a relaxation on selecting some fringe players.

It is most interesting to see how the different nations vying for what could be one of the most closely contested RWCs yet. Altitude training, hot weather training, playing games, not playing games. Do you pick a 1st choice XV or do you hide your best for the big games...?

Much interesting deliberation on the strategies. Very few of the headcoaches in charge of nations incontention have experienced this tournament with their current teams. Will their calls be right or wrong....?

How confident are you I the method or madness of your teams pre RWC strategy...?


Still to play before the RWC..


SAT - 15TH AUG 15
07:35 International New Zealand - Australia
16:00 International Ireland - Scotland
19:00 International England - France
19:40 International Argentina - South Africa

SAT - 22ND AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
18:00 International Italy - Scotland
18:00 International France - England
20:00 International Canada - USA

SAT - 29TH AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
13:30 International Ireland - Wales
14:15 International Scotland - Italy

WED - 02ND SEP 15
18:30 International Canada - Georgia

SAT - 05TH SEP 15
23:00 International Romania - Tonga
13:30 International England - Ireland
15:30 International Japan - Georgia
16:00 International Wales - Italy
19:00 International USA - Australia
19:00 International France - Scotland

SUN - 06TH SEP 15
13:30 International Fiji - Canada


Ireland and Scotland will play one more game than England France Italy and Wales in the warm up matches.

The RC teams have played three games in four weeks and now have just one game left. Both ABs and the Boks will be looking for revenge for last weekends losses.

England have selected only 2 players in their 23 against France that you would say would be in the first 15 Wood & Watson and start with 3 debutants.
So very similar to Wales 23 in the game against Ireland.

Wales are in a spot.

Last weekend revealed just how shallow our strength in depth is. And what we cannot afford is to crock any of our players pre RWC.

Aside from the obvious Williams and Tipuric, of last weekend's team few should remain in the mix….Moriarty just, Ball, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos and Walker. Likely Morgan will remain but he won't make the cut in my view and we are seriously in trouble at centre.

And its time to put down the weights and pick up the ball.

Gwlad wrote:Wales are in a spot.

Last weekend revealed just how shallow our strength in depth is. And what we cannot afford is to crock any of our players pre RWC.

Aside from the obvious Williams and Tipuric, of last weekend's team few should remain in the mix….Moriarty just, Ball, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos and Walker. Likely Morgan will remain but he won't make the cut in my view and we are seriously in trouble at centre.

And its time to put down the weights and pick up the ball.

According to the Shaun Edwards interview, Wales Squad only started practicing rugby seven days before Saturday's game.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Wales are in a spot.

Last weekend revealed just how shallow our strength in depth is. And what we cannot afford is to crock any of our players pre RWC.

Aside from the obvious Williams and Tipuric, of last weekend's team few should remain in the mix….Moriarty just, Ball, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos and Walker. Likely Morgan will remain but he won't make the cut in my view and we are seriously in trouble at centre.

And its time to put down the weights and pick up the ball.

According to the Shaun Edwards interview, Wales Squad only started practicing rugby seven days before Saturday's game.

Most of them looked like they'd only started playing rugby 7 days before the game.

I'm not sure Edwards helps trying to mitigate our cause by announcing that. If we were competing in the gym bunny RWC then maybe we should be showing our cohones, right now i think we should be checking if we have any (bit like the Boks)

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Wales are in a spot.

Last weekend revealed just how shallow our strength in depth is. And what we cannot afford is to crock any of our players pre RWC.

Aside from the obvious Williams and Tipuric, of last weekend's team few should remain in the mix….Moriarty just, Ball, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos and Walker. Likely Morgan will remain but he won't make the cut in my view and we are seriously in trouble at centre.

And its time to put down the weights and pick up the ball.

According to the Shaun Edwards interview, Wales Squad only started practicing rugby seven days before Saturday's game.

Most of them looked like they'd only started playing rugby 7 days before the game.

I'm not sure Edwards helps trying to mitigate our cause by announcing that. If we were competing in the gym bunny RWC then maybe we should be showing our cohones, right now i think we should be checking if we have any (bit like the Boks)

I don't think any of it really matters as long as the end result is there. A fifteen that wins the group.


One of the reasons I stater red this thread was to huge the subjectivity on the variety of methods that the different nations coaching teams are applying to getting a squad ready to compete this autumn.

I'm not sure how split opinion is on the sufferers get methods...?

Despite a disappointing loss, I feel most Welsh fans consider that the coaches can take a great deal from what they saw, in respect of what they have worked on so far.

It was obvious that Ireland had focused far more on their game, their tactics and how to impose their game.

All teams still have plenty of time to make the tweaks they need.

Wales got their preparation right last time. I'd have a bit of faith in Gatland. A problem they have, that Ireland don't have, is that they have to hit the ground running immediately in the WC with Australia first up. I'm guessing Gatland has prioritised their physical conditioning for this reason. The Welsh are naturally skillful players so won't need a huge amount of games to get their skill levels back up.

I think Ireland's match against France is their fourth. They have more time get to peak fitness. And the lesson we took from 2007 is that we need to play matches, not spend our time in the gym.

Good point Feckless.

Wales, England and Australia have two crunch games at the pool stages.

Therefor the pre-RWC phase has to be different. This could strengthen or weaken the teams throughout the tournament.

To put Wales in good stead, similarly with Australia, the players in those teams that played in 2011, know what it is like to qualify from a tough group.

FecklessRogue wrote:Wales got their preparation right last time. I'd have a bit of faith in Gatland. A problem they have, that Ireland don't have, is that they have to hit the ground running immediately in the WC with Australia first up. I'm guessing Gatland has prioritised their physical conditioning for this reason. The Welsh are naturally skillful players so won't need a huge amount of games to get their skill levels back up.

I think Ireland's match against France is their fourth. They have more time get to peak fitness. And the lesson we took from 2007 is that we need to play matches, not spend our time in the gym.

Also, I think Gatland is going to just try and have his players play and excel in the Gatland way as much as possible. I think Schmidt is trying to change us to having a Leinster style game plan, and so will need every minute possible to focus on skills. I think we have started to see that in the Wales game, with many long passes sticking properly.

wolfball wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:Wales got their preparation right last time. I'd have a bit of faith in Gatland. A problem they have, that Ireland don't have, is that they have to hit the ground running immediately in the WC with Australia first up. I'm guessing Gatland has prioritised their physical conditioning for this reason. The Welsh are naturally skillful players so won't need a huge amount of games to get their skill levels back up.

I think Ireland's match against France is their fourth. They have more time get to peak fitness. And the lesson we took from 2007 is that we need to play matches, not spend our time in the gym.

Also, I think Gatland is going to just try and have his players play and excel in the Gatland way as much as possible. I think Schmidt is trying to change us to having a Leinster style game plan, and so will need every minute possible to focus on skills. I think we have started to see that in the Wales game, with many long passes sticking properly.

That does seem apparent. Looked like that he was implementing a complex game plan and style back in the autumn. Then more so in the six nations.

maestegmafia wrote:I feel most Welsh fans consider that the coaches can take a great deal from what they saw

What makes you think that?

They didn't 'implement a complex game plan and style' against us in the 6 nations.

When we nullified their 'kick n chase' plan they just tried to constantly bosh it up the middle.

Ireland's game plan was largely effective, but it was hardly complex.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Ireland's game plan was largely effective, but it was hardly complex.

Agree. Ireland play a very basic game, but it's been effective so far. It's not easy on the eye, but Schmidt won't care if they keep getting results. If Ireland can bore their way past France (that's effectively a knock-out game) he'll be happy enough.

But its bad if Gatland does it ? Got you.

JS has kept his cards very close to his chest this season, both in Nov and the 6N.

I think he will develop the game plan into more of a Leinster style plan for the WC, and use the more "effective" tactics as a fallback.

munkian wrote:But its bad if Gatland does it ? Got you.

No, not at all. There's no 'right' or 'wrong' way. Gatland and Schmidt have more in common than either of them would probably care to admit!

He gets mocked for 'Warrenball' yet Shmidt is the 2nd coming.

munkian wrote:He gets mocked for 'Warrenball'  yet Shmidt is the 2nd coming.

Well, that's the Irish for you. They're not exactly the most impartial posters Having said that, there are plenty of Irish that aren't particularly happy with watching the 'entertainment' that Schmidt is doling out. It's a good time to be a fan if you like kick-chase and mauls though

Wasn't just the Irish I was referring to but yes

munkian wrote:He gets mocked for 'Warrenball'  yet Shmidt is the 2nd coming.

The big difference is that Gatland has done essentially the same thing for the last 5 years, and while it was initially successful against the NH teams it's not provided a breakthrough against the SH.

Schmidt's tactics are newer, a bit less dependent on crash ball and have worked against NH and SH opposition. If they keep working he'll be praised, if they don't and he sticks with them he'll get the same treatment as Gatland.

After watching Saturdays game, if Hook is anywhere near the the Welsh squad by the end of the week I will be fuming. Richard Hibbard was poor at best as well, he cannot throw into a line out. It is ok watching him smash people in defence, but his job is to scrummage and throw into the lineout, two jobs he failed miserably at on Saturday. Dominic Day did not take his chance either,and I thought Hallam Amos was caught up in the atmosphere a bit, and do not get me started on Mike Phillips. For me the only players to come out of that game on Saturday with a fighting chance were Eli Walker, Gareth Anscome, Scott Williams and Jake Ball. All the others must be seriously worried about their world cup chances. I will leave Faletau and Baker off the hook as they were always on the back foot due to our incompetent front row.

In Ireland there have been grumblings about the style, almost apologetic grumblings given we've won two 6 Nations, but grumblings nonetheless. A lot of us are hoping that the really excellent territorial control is just phase one of Schmidt's master plan.

Personally I don't think we'll transform into offloading masters at the WC. But I do think we'll have an array of rehearsed moves off set plays to unleash against the French and whoever we meet after that. That's something all teams have been keeping under wraps really for the last season. It's something that Schmidt proved to be particularly good at with Leinster though.

Feckless, on Saturday you just bullied us all around the park, causing us to feck up, and you capitalised on our feck ups. If you ask me, there is not much difference between the Irish 1st 15 to the second 15. I hope Gatland knows what he is doing, if that performance was anything to go by, never mid England or Australia, we will struggle against the other sides in our group.

LordDowlais wrote:Feckless, on Saturday you just bullied us all around the park, causing us to feck up, and you capitalised on our feck ups. If you ask me, there is not much difference between the Irish 1st 15 to the second 15. I hope Gatland knows what he is doing, if that performance was anything to go by, never mid England or Australia, we will struggle against the other sides in our group.

Lord IMO, I think you are being a little bit pessimistic, let me start by saying I haven't watched ANY of that game, I have it taped but doubt i'll watch any of it, when the teams were selected and let me say, this is the way I would have selected it, Gatland has to trim the 47 down to first 36 -38 and thereafter to 31, so in the positions he had 4 or 5 players in the squad he put the 2 worst against each other, eg Hibbard and Dacey, Jarvis and Andrews, Smith or Evans, he couldn't put the 2 worst 2nd rows Thornton and Day in, he had to use one of the more experienced players in with one of those, it had to be Ball or Davies and Jake pulled the short straw, Hook and Anscombe had to have their shootout and the same applied to Phillips and Williams, the only problem I seem to get from the experiment reading what people have said, on here and in many other reports is the shootouts didn't have definite winners and losers, probably the only winner being Anscombe.
Secondly, I want to say about one of my teams players Jarvis is NOT a top class scrummaging prop at Regional level never mind International, there is a marked difference in Nicky Smith's performance when he has Dmitri Arhip on the other side of the scrum for us (Os). IF Samson either cannot make the main games or breaks down in them we could be in real trouble if the likes of Jarvis or Andrews have to be included.
Finally I would say there are a few players that could be easily dropped out, and IMO that was the objective for this game.

I suppose you are right when you put it that way wayne. I never looked at it from that angle. I just saw players who I hoped would take their chance by the scruff of the neck and put a marker down and make Gatlands mind up for him. Unfortunately, Moriarty needs a lot to learn, Hallam Amos for me got caught up in the atmosphere, Richard Hibbard is only good for smashing people in open play, he cannot scrummage or throw into a line out, his two main jobs, Hook, well the less said the better, Alex Cuthbert has gone backwards at a rate of knots, Dominic Day was anonymous, Tyler Morgan was out of his depth, an all round bad day at the office for most of them.

But I will take your view on it, and hope that it has answered a few questions for the coaches.

LordDowlais wrote:I suppose you are right when you put it that way wayne. I never looked at it from that angle. I just saw players who I hoped would take their chance by the scruff of the neck and put a marker down and make Gatlands mind up for him. Unfortunately, Moriarty needs a lot to learn, Hallam Amos for me got caught up in the atmosphere, Richard Hibbard is only good for smashing people in open play, he cannot scrummage or throw into a line out, his two main jobs, Hook, well the less said the better, Alex Cuthbert has gone backwards at a rate of knots, Dominic Day was anonymous, Tyler Morgan was out of his depth, an all round bad day at the office for most of them.

But I will take your view on it, and hope that it has answered a few questions for the coaches.

Lord, I think it was about a fortnight before this game and one of the coaches said that they knew 25 and only needed another 6 or so, Gatland repeated that this week, you might have missed it through your health problems, I really don't know how the game went, I'm just taking what's been said on here. I think Gatland is between a rock and a hard place over his prop dilemma, does he take 2 or 3 L/H with James covering T/H or 3 on each side, it is already well reported he's not sure if it will be a 17-14 or a 18-13 split, I think I would have 3 either side and possibly only 3 Second Rows with James King covering there and the back row and, if as has been reported Baker was ineffective he could lose out. This Samson Lee issue is really clouding what options Gatland has.

wayne wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I suppose you are right when you put it that way wayne. I never looked at it from that angle. I just saw players who I hoped would take their chance by the scruff of the neck and put a marker down and make Gatlands mind up for him. Unfortunately, Moriarty needs a lot to learn, Hallam Amos for me got caught up in the atmosphere, Richard Hibbard is only good for smashing people in open play, he cannot scrummage or throw into a line out, his two main jobs, Hook, well the less said the better, Alex Cuthbert has gone backwards at a rate of knots, Dominic Day was anonymous, Tyler Morgan was out of his depth, an all round bad day at the office for most of them.

But I will take your view on it, and hope that it has answered a few questions for the coaches.

Lord, I think it was about a fortnight before this game and one of the coaches said that they knew 25 and only needed another 6 or so, Gatland repeated that this week, you might have missed it through your health problems, I really don't know how the game went, I'm just taking what's been said on here. I think Gatland is between a rock and a hard place over his prop dilemma, does he take 2 or 3 L/H with James covering T/H or 3 on each side, it is already well reported he's not sure if it will be a 17-14 or a 18-13 split, I think I would have 3 either side and possibly only 3 Second Rows with James King covering there and the back row and, if as has been reported Baker was ineffective he could lose out. This Samson Lee issue is really clouding what options Gatland has.  

Squad make up is an interesting conundrum. We need to keep eggs in the basket. I would be tempted to reduce the number of backs to make sure we have cover.

Jarvis was pretty much anonymous on the weekend until the scrum, then he stood out as the culprit.

That said though he did well when asked to in the six nations after Samson went off vs ireland

wayne wrote:Lord, I think it was about a fortnight before this game and one of the coaches said that they knew 25 and only needed another 6 or so, Gatland repeated that this week, you might have missed it through your health problems, I really don't know how the game went, I'm just taking what's been said on here. I think Gatland is between a rock and a hard place over his prop dilemma, does he take 2 or 3 L/H with James covering T/H or 3 on each side, it is already well reported he's not sure if it will be a 17-14 or a 18-13 split, I think I would have 3 either side and possibly only 3 Second Rows with James King covering there and the back row and, if as has been reported Baker was ineffective he could lose out. This Samson Lee issue is really clouding what options Gatland has.  

Not trying to WUM, but given how inexperienced and vulnerable the Welsh props are below the first string, I'm not sure how much it would help to have an extra one. It's a serious problem for Wales, and probably the biggest risk to their RWC, especially now that Australia have found a working first-string pack.

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I suppose you are right when you put it that way wayne. I never looked at it from that angle. I just saw players who I hoped would take their chance by the scruff of the neck and put a marker down and make Gatlands mind up for him. Unfortunately, Moriarty needs a lot to learn, Hallam Amos for me got caught up in the atmosphere, Richard Hibbard is only good for smashing people in open play, he cannot scrummage or throw into a line out, his two main jobs, Hook, well the less said the better, Alex Cuthbert has gone backwards at a rate of knots, Dominic Day was anonymous, Tyler Morgan was out of his depth, an all round bad day at the office for most of them.

But I will take your view on it, and hope that it has answered a few questions for the coaches.

Lord, I think it was about a fortnight before this game and one of the coaches said that they knew 25 and only needed another 6 or so, Gatland repeated that this week, you might have missed it through your health problems, I really don't know how the game went, I'm just taking what's been said on here. I think Gatland is between a rock and a hard place over his prop dilemma, does he take 2 or 3 L/H with James covering T/H or 3 on each side, it is already well reported he's not sure if it will be a 17-14 or a 18-13 split, I think I would have 3 either side and possibly only 3 Second Rows with James King covering there and the back row and, if as has been reported Baker was ineffective he could lose out. This Samson Lee issue is really clouding what options Gatland has.  

Squad make up is an interesting conundrum. We need to keep eggs in the basket. I would be tempted to reduce the number of backs to make sure we have cover.

Jarvis was pretty much anonymous on the weekend until the scrum, then he stood out as the culprit.

That said though he did well when asked to in the six nations after Samson went off vs ireland

Yes Maes going by reports he wasn't conspicuous in the loose which you can normally rely on, he has NEVER been a destructive scrummager in his Ospreys career.

LH is a bit of fickle one for me. I thought we were covered well there, but seeing Smith on the weekend made me reconsider. I'm not really a fan of Paul James and think some fans seriously overrated him. Jenkins is class but at his age a bit injury prone. I rate Rob Evans highly though and think he should be next in line. It's also likely that Jenkins and James won't be playing for Wales again after the RWC. Bringing through Rob Evans IMO is a no-brainer.

The above also makes me wonder, why isn't Rhys Gill involved? A Welsh region seriously needs to swoop in and get him on their books.

Poorfour wrote:

wayne wrote:Lord, I think it was about a fortnight before this game and one of the coaches said that they knew 25 and only needed another 6 or so, Gatland repeated that this week, you might have missed it through your health problems, I really don't know how the game went, I'm just taking what's been said on here. I think Gatland is between a rock and a hard place over his prop dilemma, does he take 2 or 3 L/H with James covering T/H or 3 on each side, it is already well reported he's not sure if it will be a 17-14 or a 18-13 split, I think I would have 3 either side and possibly only 3 Second Rows with James King covering there and the back row and, if as has been reported Baker was ineffective he could lose out. This Samson Lee issue is really clouding what options Gatland has.  

Not trying to WUM, but given how inexperienced and vulnerable the Welsh props are below the first string, I'm not sure how much it would help to have an extra one. It's a serious problem for Wales, and probably the biggest risk to their RWC, especially now that Australia have found a working first-string pack.

It doesn't sound like a WUM Pourfoor, there has been plenty of dialogue about the numbers of forwards compared to backs in the press for a few months it is 18-13 or 17-14 but with the Samson Lee and Liam Williams injuries clouding the issues, will they be fit, do we need extra cover in certain positions, personally as an ex hooker, I want the extra in the front row. As Maes said Jarvis has done a job there in the past even Andrews has for a few minutes, do we go with 3 2nd rows and have extra props, can we expect Paul James to cover across as he has in the past, but by all accounts very little if at all in his Bath days.
Lets look at the make up of the rest of the pack there will be 3 hookers, Warburton, Faletau, Lydiate, Tuperic, AWJ, Charteris, Ball, (Davies/King/Moriarty/Baker), if it is 18 will it be 2 of those with 6 props, or if it is 17, 1 of those with 6 props or 2 with 5 props, I'm glad it isn't me having that conundrum.

Similar to Wales and England the scots have selected a few new faces and a new captain for their first warm up game.

So we have now seen England France Ireland Scotland and Wales play the periphery of their larger squads. Some coaches have ommited a few players others will do so this week. And there is more to come.

I think we are all hoping that the coaches start to select a few more first choice players over the next few weekends.

What type of team do you expect to see next? A full bloodied test xv? Or a bit more of a mix and match xv

Some reports that Schmidt will name his 31-man squad before the next game. He doesn't actually have to name it until after the next match but whether he does or not expect a lot of the peripheral figures to be cut.

The next XV should feature more first choice players. Still will probably be a mix.

He has a very impressive squad to select from. Can't be an easy decision for him but he has always seemed a coach who knows his on mind well.

maestegmafia wrote:Good point Feckless.

Wales, England and Australia have two crunch games at the pool stages.

Therefor the pre-RWC phase has to be different. This could strengthen or weaken the teams throughout the tournament.

To put Wales in good stead, similarly with Australia, the players in those teams that played in 2011, know what it is like to qualify from a tough group.

maes.

How many of the players from 2011 will be playing in 2015 RWC?

Maj,

If you look at the semi-final game then I reckon 9 of the starters that day will be considered 1st choice still along with one of the bench that day. There will be another on the bench so in total 11.

befordwelsh.

It will be interesting too see how many players from other countries that played in 2011, will play in 2015 RWC. It will also be interesting  to see what style of play as changed.

I still think this RWC will be harder to call than any other.

At the moment NZ are number 1 Ireland are number 2 in the world rankins. Will they be the ones in the final fighting it out for the title?

Maj,  that's certainly the way the draw would as out if everything goes according to the rankings.

France are probably the biggest threat to the All Blacks,  based purely on RWC history - but also they are looking more together than usual at this stage.

The biggest problem for Ireland is if England qualify top of their group (not a given,  but if the scrum improves next week I will feel more confident) and they meet in the semi finals. They are probably close enough that with English home advantage it will come down to whose squad has the fewest injuries and, sadly,  who referees it. A French ref would suit England better,  a South African one would probably suit Ireland, so I hope if it comes down to it that Nige gets the job.

It would be great for Ireland to meet England in the semi's. Ireland have never been that far in the competition and to face the hosts would be perfect. If they won it would be even better to face the All Blacks whom they have never beaten in the final...

Bit of rest and re-cooperation for a fortnight for Ireland now.

Might be a few things to look at after the Scotland match.

Interesting format of two games, two week break then two more...!

[quote="majesticimperialman"]befordwelsh.

It will be interesting too see how many players from other countries that played in 2011, will play in 2015 RWC. It will also be interesting  to see what style of play as changed.

Maj,

I would imagine that in the terms of the number of caps that Wales would be near the top and classed as one of the the most 'experienced' sides.

Given the fact that a lot of players such as Jenkins, AWJ, Lydiate, Faletau, Warburton, Roberts, North, Halfpenny, James and Charteris have been permanent fixtures of the set up for a considerable time now.

Poorfour wrote:A French ref would suit England better,  a South African one would probably suit Ireland, so I hope if it comes down to it that Nige gets the job.

Ireland have already got their best mate to referee them to a win over France, which is incredible if you look at his record in that fixture. They may as well just get him to referee them all the way to the final.

maestegmafia wrote:Good point Feckless.

Wales, England and Australia have two crunch games at the pool stages.

Therefor the pre-RWC phase has to be different. This could strengthen or weaken the teams throughout the tournament.

To put Wales in good stead, similarly with Australia, the players in those teams that played in 2011, know what it is like to qualify from a tough group.

In 2011 the Aussies had Ireland, Italy, USA and Russia in their group. While Ireland was obviously a tough game (which they lost) they smashed the other sides in the pool. I'm not sure you could count it as a tough group (in terms of qualification from it).

mikey_dragon wrote:LH is a bit of fickle one for me. I thought we were covered well there, but seeing Smith on the weekend made me reconsider. I'm not really a fan of Paul James and think some fans seriously overrated him. Jenkins is class but at his age a bit injury prone. I rate Rob Evans highly though and think he should be next in line. It's also likely that Jenkins and James won't be playing for Wales again after the RWC. Bringing through Rob Evans IMO is a no-brainer.

The above also makes me wonder, why isn't Rhys Gill involved? A Welsh region seriously needs to swoop in and get him on their books.

Mikey Dragon you're welcome to Rhys Gill.

beshocked wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:LH is a bit of fickle one for me. I thought we were covered well there, but seeing Smith on the weekend made me reconsider. I'm not really a fan of Paul James and think some fans seriously overrated him. Jenkins is class but at his age a bit injury prone. I rate Rob Evans highly though and think he should be next in line. It's also likely that Jenkins and James won't be playing for Wales again after the RWC. Bringing through Rob Evans IMO is a no-brainer.

The above also makes me wonder, why isn't Rhys Gill involved? A Welsh region seriously needs to swoop in and get him on their books.

Mikey Dragon you're welcome to Rhys Gill.

Given strength in depth isn't really an issue for England and Saracens I understand that you wouldn't really appreciate having a NEQ prop on your books. I just don't rate Paul James; the only time I've seen him do well for Wales is the 2011 world cup warm-ups. I hope he proves me wrong. Anyway, he's likely to retire after this world cup and we will need more LH and TH props available to us (even after we stole Francis from you). Gill has only had two or three caps but on each occasion he has done exceptionally well. Two of those were against Ireland and Italy. If he plays in Wales he should have a better shot at making the first team there and be in a better position to progress. If that happens I'm confident that he can make his way back into the Wales squad.

Now that you mention it, when does his current Sarries contract end? I would love for Dragons to sign him.

I am in the the 'I do rate James' lot but have always rated Gill as well and would love a Region to snap him up.

I was surprised not to see him in the squad especially after he was used in the 6 Nations and made a big difference when he came on for Evans against Italy.

No one seriously rates James, he has always been the stand in. That said he is solid and experienced and we need that right now. Logically we have to take more props due to Lee injury and he can cover both spots which is critical.

I do Gwlad, he is technically a better scrummager than Jenkins but can be lazy in the loose etc and hasn't the skill set that Jenkins has (very few props do).

mikey dragon NEQ doesn't matter if players are good.

I just thought Gill was very poor this season. Couldn't understand why they picked him ahead of Barrington on a few occasions plus they let Auterac go. That's a decision that is already looking like it was a mistake.

Case in point - Gill vs Munster in Munster -was one big reason Sarries lost, Barrington was doing a good job in the scrum, stupidly take off at half time, Gill comes on, the scrum starts to struggle and he gets YCed - Munster score the only try during that period and win the game.

Also Gill vs Racing Metro in the quarter finals of ERCC - gets pinged as soon as he comes on and Saracens almost lose till saved by Bosch.

Didn't get picked even on the bench in the AP final - says it all really.

As I said though if you want him then you're welcome.