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Mayweather & USADA

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Mayweather & USADA Empty Mayweather & USADA

Post by hazharrison Wed 09 Sep 2015, 6:54 pm

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

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Post by AdamT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 6:56 pm

He is a drugs cheat. Poor Pacquiao, beating by a druggie.


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Post by Valero's Conscience Wed 09 Sep 2015, 7:15 pm

Doesn't mean anything

IV's are standard practice for most at the lower weights.

It is getting phased out for as the reports suggest, it can help mask PED's but people take it to rehydrate and many have concerns this will increase risk if not allowed.

When Manny fought ODH, Roach was glad ODH used IV's as he thought it meant he was drained and better for Manny. I bet this time Roach will scream foul play.

It's typical dodgy boxing shenanigans is preferential treatment is given to those who pay more and not right but that fact Floyd used an IV's is not that suspicious.



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Post by hazharrison Wed 09 Sep 2015, 8:07 pm

I think the fact USADA allegedly allowed Mayweather to insert a retroactive TUE clause in his random testing contracts in the case of a positive test is more troubling - along with the fact any TUE did not need to be flagged to NSAC or his opponent. That along with the various red flags regarding T-to-E ratios etc.

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Post by ShahenshahG Wed 09 Sep 2015, 8:41 pm

T to E fluctuates wildly when training heavily/in a tough fight and its not uncommon for it to drop that low. There's nothing wrong with that - the issue as in the peterson case is whether they're filling it up with testosterone so he can train hard continuously instead of eating/resting/sleeping as you're supposed to do. It only becomes an issue when people are using external means to top it up, then it can be evidence of peds. Some fighters, weight lifters, and other athletes use a variant of a training overload method then pump their bodies full of things to heal (like a drip or protein shakes, or for Heavyweight's - big portions of healthy food as well). In that period the amount of T to E drops sharply for a day or three. With Mayweather I'd suspect it's one day otherwise he probably wouldn't do it. Hauser is hoping the ambiguity will condemn mayweather rather than providing any evidence of wrongdoing. I agree that USADA follow the money too easily but that is boxing malaise in every involved organisation.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 8:47 pm

Valero's Conscience wrote:Doesn't mean anything

IV's are standard practice for most at the lower weights.

It is getting phased out for as the reports suggest, it can help mask PED's but people take it to rehydrate and many have concerns this will increase risk if not allowed.

When Manny fought ODH, Roach was glad ODH used IV's as he thought it meant he was drained and better for Manny.  I bet this time Roach will scream foul play.

It's typical dodgy boxing shenanigans is preferential treatment is given to those who pay more and not right but that fact Floyd used an IV's is not that suspicious.



Bit different...oscar dogged himself to make weight and ballooned afterwards... Floyd never has trouble making weight and barely hydrates up afterwards. Why would he need a drip?

Of course you can also ask the question, that if usada are in mayweather/haymon's pocket, why would they schedule a random test at a time Floyd is at home with his iv... Clearly you only buy off the guy at the top generally, but it's still poor planning!

Lots of stuff we've heard before in the article, but it doesn't paint a pretty picture of mayweather or usada

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Post by AdamT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 8:53 pm

I don't think any top fighter is clean, or at least they are fe and far between.

Mayweather and pacquiao are as clean as Sugar Ray Leonard.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:09 pm

You mean manny who doesn't like needles unless they're for shoulder injuries? Have you got anything you want to share re srl? We know he liked a bit of the white stuff, but that's only 'performance' enhancing when going a few rounds in a different kind of activity.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:11 pm

Do need to tone down and be a bit less specific with such accusations Adam.

The article says a lot without saying anything which is standard practice when it comes to Hauser, he fools the reader into thinking he knows something they don't.

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Post by AdamT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:14 pm

Perhaps Floyd,Manny and Srl are clean, but I have suspicion with every top sports star.

I'm a skeptical c..t!

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Post by ShahenshahG Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:24 pm

You just don't have as much to lose as them so you think it's as rife in the professional arena as it is in your local gym.

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Post by AdamT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:28 pm

Yes I do. Also the op was digging at a certain fighter being dirty.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:29 pm

I think we're all sceptical Adam. Widespread, undoubtedly... All of them? Well, Let's hope not.

Imagine if bolt tested positive after all the good v evil stuff in the world athletics.

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Post by AdamT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:31 pm

I want to believe Bolts clean. Maybe he is.

Also I have no idea about SRL, but Manny Steward had his suspicions.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:38 pm

Hammy, I'm sure hauser is very wary of writing anything litigious. So he deals with the facts... Or the ones that suit his argument that he believes he can back up... and presents them in a join the dots fashion. 

Clearly he's heavily pointing the finger, and he could possibly do it for numerous other fighters, including the ones he name-checked, but he's singling out the world's highest paid sports star who happens to take the moral high ground on the subject. You could call it a witch hunt... Or a fair target, approached with some thought.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:45 pm

Judging by his previous writing I think he's doing everything he can to try and discredit Mayweather, I tend to find him and his over rated Ali book quite tiresome.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:51 pm

Well he does like to have a pop at mayweather, but that's feature writing, he needs an all star cast for his story to get the punters in. 

There's some fairly  damning stuff in there, if it all has an innocent explanation then I'm sure we'll get a reposte from someone.

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Post by ShahenshahG Wed 09 Sep 2015, 9:54 pm

http://deadspin.com/another-writer-says-promoters-revoked-his-may-pac-arena-1702138105?hipra_discussion_redesign=off&utm_expid=66866090-52.r5txldOmRkqnbJxnyozIeA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

Sportswriters are as bitchy as anyone else.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 10:22 pm

Hell hath no fury as a woman/fighter/journalist scorned

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Post by catchweight Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:00 pm

Its a very good read which sheds a lot of good background light and examples on what most boxing fans already know - nearly all of the top names are at it in some shape or form.

I guess the bigger message from it is not that all these guys are abusing, but that the testing is available to accomodate the highest bidder. Which is why you get fights stalling nowadays over which various body in which country carries out the testing (if any).

Hauser is generally excellent and has been trying to bring the drug problem in boxing to the fore.

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Post by Lance Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:29 pm

Careful Adam, you are giving the game away a bit in this thread

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:38 am

"It was announced publicly that the bout contract Mayweather and Pacquiao signed in February 2012 to fight each other provided that drug testing would be conducted by USADA. But the actual contract with USADA remained to be negotiated. In early March, USADA presented the Pacquiao camp with a contract that allowed the testing agency to grant a retroactive therapeutic use exemption (TUE) to either fighter in the event that the fighter tested positive for a prohibited drug. That retroactive exemption could have been granted without notifying the Nevada State Athletic Commission or the opposing fighter’s camp.

Team Pacquiao thought that was outrageous and an opportunity for Mayweather to game the system. Pacquiao refused to sign the contract.


As reported by this writer on MaxBoxing in Dec. 2012, information filtered through the drug-testing community on May 20, 2012 to the effect that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug. More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive three times and, after each positive test, USADA had given Floyd an inadvertent use waiver. These waivers, if they were in fact given, would have negated the need to test Floyd’s “B” samples. And because the “B” samples were never tested, a loophole in Mayweather’s USADA contract would have allowed testing to continue without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

Pacquiao’s attorneys became aware of the rumor in late-May. On June 4, 2012, they served document demands and subpoenas on Mayweather, Mayweather Promotions, Golden Boy (Mayweather’s co-promoter), and USADA demanding the production of all documents relating to PED testing of Mayweather in conjunction with his fights against Shane Mosley, Victor Ortiz, and Miguel Cotto. These were the three fights that Mayweather had been tested for by USADA up until that time.

The documents were not produced. After pleading guilty to charges of domestic violence and harassment, Mayweather spent nine weeks in the Clark County Detention Center. He was released from jail on Aug. 2. Then settlement talks heated up.

A stipulation of settlement ending the defamation case was filed with the court on Sept. 25, 2012. The parties agreed to a confidentiality clause that kept the terms of settlement secret. However, prior to the agreement being signed, two sources with detailed knowledge of the proceedings told this writer that Mayweather’s initial monetary settlement offer was “substantially more” than Pacquiao’s attorneys had expected it would be. An agreement in principle was reached soon afterward. The settlement meant that the demand for documents relating to USADA’s testing of Mayweather became moot.

If Mayweather’s “A” sample tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug on one or more occasions and he was given a waiver by USADA that concealed this fact from the Nevada State Athletic Commission, his opponent, and the public, it could contribute to a scandal that undermines the already-shaky public confidence in boxing. At present, the relevant information is not a matter of public record."

I wonder when this info. goes on public record?

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Post by Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:49 am

milkyboy wrote:You mean manny who doesn't like needles unless they're for shoulder injuries?

Or tattoos. Something that is never mentioned despite him having several!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:58 am

milkyboy wrote:You mean manny who doesn't like needles unless they're for shoulder injuries? Have you got anything you want to share re srl? We know he liked a bit of the white stuff, but that's only 'performance' enhancing when going a few rounds in a different kind of activity.

Adam is trying to be ironic/sarcastic.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:01 am

Meh.

Who cares any more, really, especially in relation to these two??

Floyd also paid to bury his test results when Manny sued him.

That's as much dirt as this new stuff.

Couldn't care less really.

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Post by Scottrf Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:18 am

When you're allowed 4 times normal testosterone ratios it seems likely a lot will be juicing up to the allowed ratios.

When you add that to knowing how few are caught under Olympic testing even in sports where it's taken more seriously, and the fact we know Mosley was never caught despite using EPO it gets worrying. You have to make big mistakes to get caught. And when they do in boxing, it's not dealt with seriously.

SARMS is supposed to be the 'new' craze, with similar effects as steroids while being virtually undetectable.

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Post by Scottrf Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:21 am

AdamT wrote:I want to believe Bolts clean. Maybe he is.
Maybe. But he's quarter of a second quicker than anyone else that hasn't been caught. Billing the Gatlin race as good vs evil was a bit much.

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 12:28 pm

Scottrf wrote:
AdamT wrote:I want to believe Bolts clean. Maybe he is.
Maybe. But he's quarter of a second quicker than anyone else that hasn't been caught. Billing the Gatlin race as good vs evil was a bit much.

Carl Lewis was the good guy once.

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Post by AdamT Thu 10 Sep 2015, 12:55 pm

Carl Lewis is a f.....g hypocrite.

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Post by DuransHorse Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:02 pm

This is about as interesting as his last 36 minutes in the ring.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:04 pm

Think Mayweather should take it as a compliment that Hauser spends so much time trashing him....

It's always good when either an ex girlfriend or colleague is slagging you off and yet you feel indifferent to them.........Always thought the opposite of love is indifference and not hate....At least If someone hates you...You are getting an emotion out of them...

Hauser like the OP is a desperate traditionalist who hates to see modern fighters upset the applecart....It's like a crusade to discredit them, not realising that people are smart enough to make up their own minds....and to see they have an agenda..

But as for this PED stuff well you all know my thoughts on how bent Boxing is......If the officials and referees are bent what chance the trainers and fighters are straight ??

I don't have Duran top 10 but fairplay to those that do..... It certainly doesn't keep me up at nights...

My old man's best advice to me was "There is no point worrying about something you can't do anything about !!"............

Think the OP and Hauser should heed that advice and let..what will be...be.


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Post by DuransHorse Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:24 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think Mayweather should take it as a compliment that Hauser spends so much time trashing him....

It's always good when either an ex girlfriend or colleague is slagging you off and yet you feel indifferent to them.........Always thought the opposite of love is indifference and not hate....At least If someone hates you...You are getting an emotion out of them...

Hauser like the OP is a desperate traditionalist who hates to see modern fighters upset the applecart....It's like a crusade to discredit them, not realising that people are smart enough to make up their own minds....and to see they have an agenda..

But as for this PED stuff well you all know my thoughts on how bent Boxing is......If the officials and referees are bent what chance the trainers and fighters are straight ??

I don't have Duran top 10 but fairplay to those that do..... It certainly doesn't keep me up at nights...

My old man's best advice to me was "There is no point worrying about something you can't do anything about !!"............

Think the OP and Hauser should heed that advice and let..what will be...be.


You mention Duran's ATG ranking a lot though... are you indifferent or merely trying to act indifferent? The lady doth act indifferent too much, methinks!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:31 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think Mayweather should take it as a compliment that Hauser spends so much time trashing him....

It's always good when either an ex girlfriend or colleague is slagging you off and yet you feel indifferent to them.........Always thought the opposite of love is indifference and not hate....At least If someone hates you...You are getting an emotion out of them...

Hauser like the OP is a desperate traditionalist who hates to see modern fighters upset the applecart....It's like a crusade to discredit them, not realising that people are smart enough to make up their own minds....and to see they have an agenda..

But as for this PED stuff well you all know my thoughts on how bent Boxing is......If the officials and referees are bent what chance the trainers and fighters are straight ??

I don't have Duran top 10 but fairplay to those that do..... It certainly doesn't keep me up at nights...

My old man's best advice to me was "There is no point worrying about something you can't do anything about !!"............

Think the OP and Hauser should heed that advice and let..what will be...be.


You mention Duran's ATG ranking a lot though... are you indifferent or merely trying to act indifferent?  The lady doth act indifferent too much, methinks!

I lied... I'm a chronic insomniac !! Cool

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:46 pm

Hey I'd have posted this up if it had been Pacquiao, Golovkin or anyone else. I'm a realist and don't for one minute I don't suspect fighters who hit unusually hard (there are three fighters in particular who fit that bill at heavy, light heavy and middle).

I posted this up as I believe it's the first piece of real boxing journalism I've seen for.....well.....it just doesn't happen anymore does it? Quoting Conte isn't great but there are undoubtedly some red flags here.

The key thing in this piece isn't "well, everyone must be bent" it's the fact Mayweather had USADA in his pocket. This allowed him preferential treatment over TUEs etc. There has never been a fighter who has more control over his career. He fights who he likes, when he likes, where he likes. He controls the ringside press. He even controls who gets to have an exemption for failed PED tests and who doesn't.

It's a far cry from SRL demanding a bigger ring!

How do people feel about the likes of Jones, Toney, Mosley and Holyfield? Should they be wiped from the history books, or the HOF at least?


Last edited by hazharrison on Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Scottrf Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:50 pm

"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power."

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:52 pm

Scottrf wrote:"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power."

It does kind of destroy the dream that boxing is an egalitarian sport.

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:54 pm

AdamT wrote:Carl Lewis is a f.....g hypocrite.

Indeed Truss. I used to idolise him as a kid (before that became obvious of course).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 2:59 pm

hazharrison wrote:Hey I'd have posted this up if it had been Pacquiao, Golovkin or anyone else. I'm a realist and don't for one minute I don't suspect fighters who hit unusually hard (there are three fighters in particular who fit that bill at heavy, light heavy and middle).

Hard not to be cynical with you and Mayweather............But hey I believe you......Because I'm one helluva guy !!Cool

My alias Adam T however.....He may take more convincing..Laugh

Shhhh though.... Aliases are a bannable offence.......So it's just between me and you.. thumbsup

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Post by Rowley Thu 10 Sep 2015, 3:00 pm

hazharrison wrote:
How do people feel about the likes of Jones, Toney, Mosley and Holyfield? Should they be wiped from the history books, or the HOF at least?

I personally would prefer to see those who are found guilty (not by inference, but by evidence) being excluded, but it is difficult because I guess you have to put them up for nomination. A better system is for the people charged with electing who goes in making a collective decision that those found guilty are not going in. That is what seems to have happened in baseball. Barry Bonds has been up for nomination for a couple of years, you need 75% of the votes to get in, last time round he got 37%. He can't complain he is being victimised by being excluded from the ballot (boo hoo for the cheat and all that) but he is simply not securing sufficient votes.

Different situation in boxing though, the Hall of Fame is already far too broken to start making moral stands now, the idea that Johannsen could be in but Morales would not be is just plain odd.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 3:07 pm

Rowley wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
How do people feel about the likes of Jones, Toney, Mosley and Holyfield? Should they be wiped from the history books, or the HOF at least?

I personally would prefer to see those who are found guilty (not by inference, but by evidence) being excluded, but it is difficult because I guess you have to put them up for nomination. A better system is for the people charged with electing who goes in making a collective decision that those found guilty are not going in. That is what seems to have happened in baseball. Barry Bonds has been up for nomination for a couple of years, you need 75% of the votes to get in, last time round he got 37%. He can't complain he is being victimised by being excluded from the ballot (boo hoo for the cheat and all that) but he is simply not securing sufficient votes.

Different situation in boxing though, the Hall of Fame is already far too broken to start making moral stands now, the idea that Johannsen could be in but Morales would not be is just plain odd.

Hall of fame is a pile of dog crap........and in fairness Boxing has the HOF it deserves.....

Barry Mcguigan and Daniel Zaragoza have seen to that........Chuck in Richard "Don King" Steele..

Forget most of the fighters from the 70s/80s being in there If you want to rule out PED abusers.......

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Post by milkyboy Thu 10 Sep 2015, 4:20 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hauser like the OP is a desperate traditionalist who hates to see modern fighters upset the applecart....It's like a crusade to discredit them, not realising that people are smart enough to make up their own minds....and to see they have an agenda..

But as for this PED stuff well you all know my thoughts on how bent Boxing is......If the officials and referees are bent what chance the trainers and fighters are straight ??

So in summary... It's a vindictive crusade... But he's probably right.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 4:22 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hauser like the OP is a desperate traditionalist who hates to see modern fighters upset the applecart....It's like a crusade to discredit them, not realising that people are smart enough to make up their own minds....and to see they have an agenda..

But as for this PED stuff well you all know my thoughts on how bent Boxing is......If the officials and referees are bent what chance the trainers and fighters are straight ??

So in summary... It's a vindictive crusade... But he's probably right.

Yep.........I'd buy it more If Mayweather wasn't his favorite subject..

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Post by milkyboy Thu 10 Sep 2015, 4:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
My old man's best advice to me was "There is no point worrying about something you can't do anything about !!"............



Better than 'marry the English chick... Her dad's loaded'?

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:05 pm

Mike Woods: "I reached out to Hauser, to fire a couple follow-up questions. Here they are:

Woods: Exhaustive reporting in latest piece. Long read. For those inclined for a Cliff Notes version, what are top three notable takeaways?

Hauser: For me, the three keys points are:

(1) EIGHTEEN DAYS after Pacquiao-Mayweather, USADA granted Mayweather a retroactive therapeutic use exemption for a procedure that’s on the WADA “Prohibited Substances and Methods List”.

(2) The two testosterone-to-epitestosterone-ratio test results that we have for Mayweather (both of which are posted with the article) raise a host of unanswered questions.

(3) USADA has yet to satisfactorily explain its behavior with regard to the Erik Morales clenbuterol fiasco.



Woods: Floyd fans tell me on Twitter they dismiss such allegations as hating and say Hauser has it out for Floyd. Your response?

Hauser: The issue isn’t Thomas Hauser. The issue is USADA’s handling of PED testing in relation to Floyd Mayweather and other fighters. People are entitled to defend USADA and Floyd if they want to. But the fact that they aren’t specifically and intelligently rebutting the points made in the article speaks to the accuracy of the article. I would urge everyone on both sides of the issue to read the entire article carefully. I know it’s long, but the issues raised are important. That reading would contribute to an intelligent constructive dialogue.



Woods: Will we ever get a smoking gun on those supposed positives that Floyd had?

Hauser: That’s up the regulatory and law enforcement authorities with jurisdiction over the matter. It’s also possible that some of the information could surface through discovery in civil litigation.

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Mayweather & USADA Empty Re: Mayweather & USADA

Post by AdamT Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:06 pm

If I'm Truss we have issues.

I have Duran top 5!

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Post by AdamT Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:21 pm

Usada have made a statement. It is false that Floyd broke rules.

Can't be bothered to add link. Just google Usada and it comes up in news.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:25 pm

It's all a load of nothing, Hauser has a real hard on for trying to discredit Mayweather and his opinions on the matter should be treated as such.

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Post by AdamT Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:27 pm

He's a grade A vvanker.


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Post by Derbymanc Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:14 pm

http://www.usada.org/usada-statement-inaccurate-news-reports-pro-boxing/

I'll post it as lazy pants can't Wink

I'm not a fan of Hauser or these reports that x,y or z MAy have done this etc. Boxing needs a smoking gun or at least some proper proof or it'll never get cleaned up (not I think it will anyway)

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Post by hazharrison Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:18 pm

Hauser response:

http://ucnlive.com/thomas-hausers-statement-regarding-sept-10-2015-comments-annie-skinnerusada/

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