PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:A good solution would be for the Pro 12 and Aviva to get together and arrange from some swaps between the leagues as well. Would help the refs and players across the board. Obviously will never happen.

Didn't they do this a few seasons back?

missed it if they did. when was this. Only had the ability (sky et al) for a couple of years or so. Was it a success or more of the same moaning.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:That's the problem, some people will perceive bias where there is none it can never be totally removed as it is up to individuals and collectives how they perceive a situation

The only people who do not "perceive" this are the Irish, because the "situation", as it stands, suits them.

Why would it suit the Irish?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:That's the problem, some people will perceive bias where there is none it can never be totally removed as it is up to individuals and collectives how they perceive a situation

The only people who do not "perceive" this are the Irish, because the "situation", as it stands, suits them.

Given a choice between the Changeling Bros & Wayne Barnes, I'd probably go for Barnes.

How do you propose that the Pro12 rectify the situation that only supposedly 'neutral' refs officiate?

JP Doyle has reffed in the PrO'12 / Celtic League. As has Dave Pearson, Roman Poite, Andrew Small, Tony Spreadbury, Chris White.

Which matches? How did it go?

Chunky Norwich wrote:JP Doyle has reffed in the PrO'12 / Celtic League. As has Dave Pearson, Roman Poite, Andrew Small, Tony Spreadbury, Chris White.

And Pascal Gaüzère was the original ref for the Leinster Munster game last year

http://www.the42.ie/alain-rolland-munster-leinster-pro12-1382753-Mar2014/

LordDowlais wrote:Well done Munchkin, start throwing out insults like calling me thick, then you now you've lost the debate. I will not rise to your insults.

OK, lets get things straight, can you quote me on here when I have said anything about having neutral refs ? If you can I will concede. But you will not.

I have mentioned crap refs in our league, nothing about where they are from, or what nationality they are. I have also said that the cause for bias accusation or potential bias makes a mockery of our league.

Some of the Irish members on here are telling me that there is no such thing as potential bias, or cause for bias accusation, yet that is the one reason why there is an agreement in Ireland why refs from the same branches as their provinces cannot ref games.

The thing is, when we have crap refs, from whatever country, and then we have crap refs who are under the same umbrella as the players, teams, coaches then our league becomes a laughing stock, yet you and your ilk flat refuse to accept this.

I didn't call you thick. Comprehension levels...

You're such a spoofer, LD. You make that claim that Pro12 is set up to favour the Irish. Are you really trying to tell me that in your accusation you don't include Irish refs? Sure....

There is no such thing as potential bias. We are all biased, one way or another. We all have preferences. what you refer to as potential bias is really the potential for cheating. By the way, your moaning about 'potential bias', is because there are not always neutral refs....

What we don't accept is your tin hatted nonsense, and you baseless claims. We don't accept fiction as fact.

How do you propose that the Pro12 rectify the situation that only supposedly 'neutral' refs officiate?

By having officials that come under a sepperate entity to players, coaches, chairmen, ect.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which matches? How did it go?

Roman Poite refereed when the Ospreys won the Celtic League final win in Dublin in 2012. Against Leinster.

I don't think the Irish like him much. Strange that.

Munchkin wrote:What we don't accept is your tin hatted nonsense, and you baseless claims. We don't accept fiction as fact.

well I would not be warring a tin hat if there was nothing to be paranoid about. You keep living in your shangri-la of rugby union, it will end up finishing our league, because the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

LordDowlais wrote: You keep living in your shangri-la of rugby union, it will end up finishing our league, because the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

Amen. Rugby needs to move out of Dublin.

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:What we don't accept is your tin hatted nonsense, and you baseless claims. We don't accept fiction as fact.

well I would not be warring a tin hat if there was nothing to be paranoid about. You keep living in your shangri-la of rugby union, it will end up finishing our league, because the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

So you admit that you're paranoid. That's the first step, LD, on your CBT

Odd what you say about the IRFU influence on the Pro12. I put the fact that you said the same before, about the Pro12 being set up for the Irish, and you denied you meant it. You claimed you didn't mean it. That you said it out of frustration. Make your mind up, LD....

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which matches? How did it go?

Roman Poite refereed when the Ospreys won the Celtic League final win in Dublin in 2012. Against Leinster.

I don't think the Irish like him much. Strange that.

So the 'Irish' run league appointed a ref that wasn't on their books and the Irish team didn't win. This evil plan of ours really wasn't well thought out was it?

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

The money isn't there to increase the English clubs share which is why it'll never get off the ground. We've been through this before.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

........................................................ Wray ain't sayin'.....

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which matches? How did it go?

Roman Poite refereed when the Ospreys won the Celtic League final win in Dublin in 2012. Against Leinster.

I don't think the Irish like him much. Strange that.

So the 'Irish' run league appointed a ref that wasn't on their books and the Irish team didn't win. This evil plan of ours really wasn't well thought out was it?

The PrO'12 appoints a neutral referee for the final if the 2 teams are from different countries.

I thought you would have known this.

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

BT Sport

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:JP Doyle has reffed in the PrO'12 / Celtic League. As has Dave Pearson, Roman Poite, Andrew Small, Tony Spreadbury, Chris White.

And Pascal Gaüzère was the original ref for the Leinster Munster game last year

http://www.the42.ie/alain-rolland-munster-leinster-pro12-1382753-Mar2014/

Apologies Marty, I got that one wrong. I must have heard something about Rolland saying that it was the first time he had reffed a Munster v Leinster game.

Interesting bit here:

Rolland is an ex-Leinster player and a Leinster Branch referee, but his suitability for this fixture is in little doubt. Pro12 organisers have confirmed that the IRFU and both Rob Penney and Matt O’Connor are in total agreement that Rolland is the best available referee for this fixture.

It looks like its the PRO12 that does the hiring and firing of the Officials, not the Province owners, the IRFU. I think the bloke is Welsh actually who is in charge of the officials - also is in charge of the officials for 6Ns.

The Irish lost though, so it's obvious he wasn't Neutral.

Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

BT Sport

For goodness sake, Chunky. Some of the AP clubs are still in debt. Some carrying very heavy debt. None of the clubs really want you in the AP. Why would they?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which matches? How did it go?

Roman Poite refereed when the Ospreys won the Celtic League final win in Dublin in 2012. Against Leinster.

I don't think the Irish like him much. Strange that.

So the 'Irish' run league appointed a ref that wasn't on their books and the Irish team didn't win. This evil plan of ours really wasn't well thought out was it?

The PrO'12 appoints a neutral referee for the final if the 2 teams are from different countries.

I thought you would have known this.

I'll try this again, if the league is run for the Irish then why bother with that?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

BT Sport

And how much are BT willing to pay?

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Which matches? How did it go?

Roman Poite refereed when the Ospreys won the Celtic League final win in Dublin in 2012. Against Leinster.

I don't think the Irish like him much. Strange that.

So the 'Irish' run league appointed a ref that wasn't on their books and the Irish team didn't win. This evil plan of ours really wasn't well thought out was it?

The PrO'12 appoints a neutral referee for the final if the 2 teams are from different countries.

I thought you would have known this.

I'll try this again, if the league is run for the Irish then why bother with that?

Because they're clever. And they know that getting a mate to referee a Championship final is a step too far.

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

BT Sport

And how much are BT willing to pay?

Lots and lots and lots. They just gave Scottish rugby £20m because they felt like it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

I'll try this again, if the league is run for the Irish then why bother with that?

Because they're clever. And they know that getting a mate to referee a Championship final is a step too far.

Yeah  - their evil plot might have been uncovered if they chanced their luck too much.  Better to keep it all under wraps and nobody knows....  the secret is safe for now. Good decision.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

Nope. Meritocratically. Thus: The English. The Dragons. The rest of the English. The rest of the Welsh, The Scots and then maybe the Irish - if there is any money left over from the chips and burgers party to celebrate the beginning of the New Dawn.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

If we've already done this, why are you asking me again? The answers are all the same as they were last time. And the time before that.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:
It goes way beyond that. 10 more Scottish referees of any quality would not address the issues in the PrO'12. The Irish blazers should be campaigning for a British and Irish league, but their too busy gorging on the prizes infront of them to think about what lies ahead in a few years time.

Why would they campaign for it?

The RFU basically shot down the idea of the Regions joining the AP and the clubs had the brains trust at RRW thinking it was a possibility during the lead up to the ERCC. The AP has nothing to gain from the idea, they have their rivalries, tv deal and an established product why change or dilute it? The French would also have a problem with as it has ramifications for the ERCC which would be less marketable

You talk about what lies ahead in a few years time yet continue to dismiss the same for the Pro12 yet have no idea about the real world of business and just have a fantasy of the English being a better partner for the Welsh even though they shafted you over the ERCC

We've done this before. The money is there for expansion, and as always, if the money is right, then it will talk. As for the ERCC, getting to a semi final will be a distant fantasy to the celtic nations in a few years if we keep going on this path.

But the Irish want to continue in their development league that commands a pathetic income.

And wheres this money?

BT Sport

And how much are BT willing to pay?

Lots and lots and lots. They just gave Scottish rugby £20m because they felt like it.

And this just confirms your grasp of how things works

BT paid over the odds for the ERCC and AP to undermine Sky, BT Sport is a loss making operation designed to drive people to their internet packages which is a big money spinner for them and their main source of income

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dacb4232-245d-11e4-ae78-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3loMAp079

BT paid that to rebrand Murrayfield, its called marketing. Its a thing businesses do to draw attention to themselves and their products. Its why they sponsor a number of Pro12 teams, nothing like your rivals having to show your logo on their air time

marty2086 wrote:

And this just confirms your grasp of how things works

BT paid over the odds for the ERCC and AP to undermine Sky, BT Sport is a loss making operation designed to drive people to their internet packages which is a big money spinner for them and their main source of income

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dacb4232-245d-11e4-ae78-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3loMAp079

BT paid that to rebrand Murrayfield, its called marketing. Its a thing businesses do to draw attention to themselves and their products. Its why they sponsor a number of Pro12 teams, nothing like your rivals having to show your logo on their air time

Doesn't all that just reinforce my point?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

If we've already done this, why are you asking me again? The answers are all the same as they were last time. And the time before that.

Yes, which is why I'm pointing out you're living in fantasy land. Last times answer was that they'll just give them money to make it work, forgetting that BT are a business not a charity. We then saw how they bid for the 6Ns...

A merger is a'coming, I'm tellin' yis. They have everyone thinking they're enemies but they sleep together at night planning something called something very original like BTSKY.

Watch this space.

I despair with this I really do.

OK 7&1/2, as an outsider to our league, do you think that us Welsh have a point about the IRFU paying both the players and Irish officials and all the CEO's of the provinces ect, then having the same officials that come under the same umbrella as the players et all, officiating those same players ?

P.S, I do not want a British and Irish league, I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

If we've already done this, why are you asking me again? The answers are all the same as they were last time. And the time before that.

Yes, which is why I'm pointing out you're living in fantasy land. Last times answer was that they'll just give them money to make it work, forgetting that BT are a business not a charity. We then saw how they bid for the 6Ns...

It's the only way to limit the damage of the French and to a lesser extent the English running away with the sport.

LordDowlais wrote:I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

The only way that is going to happen is if there is a total restructure. I.e. - doing what RCC did and take the Irish run element out.

The Irish would never allow that to happen as they haveit too good as it stands.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

And this just confirms your grasp of how things works

BT paid over the odds for the ERCC and AP to undermine Sky, BT Sport is a loss making operation designed to drive people to their internet packages which is a big money spinner for them and their main source of income

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dacb4232-245d-11e4-ae78-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3loMAp079

BT paid that to rebrand Murrayfield, its called marketing. Its a thing businesses do to draw attention to themselves and their products. Its why they sponsor a number of Pro12 teams, nothing like your rivals having to show your logo on their air time

Doesn't all that just reinforce my point?

No, because the only reason BT wanted the AP was because Sky had it and had a history with it. It was and is an established brand with a market value. The Pro12 does not have the same value as the AP. Why pay over the odds for something that you don't need?

I have no doubt that the Pro12 could have got more money for their tv rights if they signed an exclusive deal with Sky and maybe BT were in there too. Right now the Pro12 are working on growing the league and brand, this means less tv revenue now but a better more established brand with a bigger audience equals a more valuable product down the line.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

The only way that is going to happen is if there is a total restructure. I.e. - doing what RCC did and take the Irish run element out.

The Irish would never allow that to happen as they haveit too good as it stands.

How do we have it too good?

LordDowlais wrote:I despair with this I really do.

OK 7&1/2, as an outsider to our league, do you think that us Welsh have a point about the IRFU paying both the players and Irish officials and all the CEO's of the provinces ect, then having the same officials that come under the same umbrella as the players et all, officiating those same players ?

No. I think it's a bit far fetched to be honest. If a ref supports Scarlets and Wales don't let them ref them as would be the same in any sport. Payment from the central body wouldn't overly bother me, it's just paper work. If you think Lacey is biased against such and such now it's unlikely a different name at the top of his wage slip will change that.

LordDowlais wrote:P.S, I do not want a British and Irish league, I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

Then stop making them.

So is it accusations of 'potential bias' (potential to cheat), or accusations of bias (cheating)?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why, Chunky, would BT Sport offer a massive amount of money over what they currently pay, which is over the top of what they needed to pay to secure the Aviva rights, when they want to get more football and didn't bid for the crown in the jewel 6Ns. It's a fantasy.

Because they want Sky Sports to have as little elite sport as possible.

But they won't have to pay anywhere near the amount required to give English clubs more money than they currently get to actually secure the rights. I'm assuming that the money will be equally spread in your fantasy proposal.

If we've already done this, why are you asking me again? The answers are all the same as they were last time. And the time before that.

Yes, which is why I'm pointing out you're living in fantasy land. Last times answer was that they'll just give them money to make it work, forgetting that BT are a business not a charity. We then saw how they bid for the 6Ns...

It's the only way to limit the damage of the French and to a lesser extent the English running away with the sport.

OK. Fair enough point there that the Enlgish and French are strong, will good money and likely to try and increase this. Why on earth would a business want to become a charity to the Pro 12 to stop this? If they did surely BT would just come in with a massive money offer for the Pr 12 rights alone?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I despair with this I really do.

OK 7&1/2, as an outsider to our league, do you think that us Welsh have a point about the IRFU paying both the players and Irish officials and all the CEO's of the provinces ect, then having the same officials that come under the same umbrella as the players et all, officiating those same players ?

No. I think it's a bit far fetched to be honest. If a ref supports Scarlets and Wales don't let them ref them as would be the same in any sport. Payment from the central body wouldn't overly bother me, it's just paper work. If you think Lacey is biased against such and such now it's unlikely a different name at the top of his wage slip will change that.

LordDowlais wrote:P.S, I do not want a British and Irish league, I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

How can there be 'parity' - that's us back again to the European debate - "we must all be Private clubs and not Union owned. Ireland change your very National structures to qualify! We'll keep ours just as they are coz they suit us".

Our Union owns our four Provinces. No Private club will be able to buy a Province for it's own private shareholding Interest. It just won't happen. Irish fans like the Irish way - still have Strong Allegiances to their individual Provinces but like the idea that Province leads to International and back again.

Nope... we won't change. Blunt.

So Parity?

Will Wales change and allow WRU to suck up Regions and control them from an OverLord Ownership centre? I strongly doubt it - we all know the big war these last few years in Wales.

So it's a Nope from Wales too. We won't change. Blunt.

So where's the Parity? We're all Individual Nations with our own distinct National blueprints for Rugby.... trying to play together as best we can. But nobody outside any given Nation has the right to demand fundamental changes to a competing Nation.

I'd simply say let Pro12 go to hell if other Nations want to change the structure of Irish rugby from without. Pro12 isn't that important. Irish rugby is.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I despair with this I really do.

OK 7&1/2, as an outsider to our league, do you think that us Welsh have a point about the IRFU paying both the players and Irish officials and all the CEO's of the provinces ect, then having the same officials that come under the same umbrella as the players et all, officiating those same players ?

No. I think it's a bit far fetched to be honest. If a ref supports Scarlets and Wales don't let them ref them as would be the same in any sport. Payment from the central body wouldn't overly bother me, it's just paper work. If you think Lacey is biased against such and such now it's unlikely a different name at the top of his wage slip will change that.

So it would not bother you if Wayne Barnes trained with Leicester, and all the Leicester players and Wayne Barnes got paid by the RFU, and then Wayne Barnes was put in charge of Saracens and Northampton which could decide who finishes in the playoffs as Leicester only need a point or two to catch Saracens would you be happy with that ? Because this is what we have to put up with. An official who is too close to the people he is supposed to be officiating and getting paid by the same people.

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:P.S, I do not want a British and Irish league, I want a Celtic league where ALL teams have parity with each other, and the argument for bias accusation is taken out of it.

Then stop making them.

So is it accusations of 'potential bias' (potential to cheat), or accusations of bias (cheating)?

It has always been potential bias from me as I suspect you already know. I was using accusations of bias because you were telling me there is no such thing as potential bias.