England v Wales, 26 September

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ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

[tbc]

WALES

[tbc]

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wales606 wrote:Apparently Lydiate is okay, but Aaron Jarvis is injured.

Would never wish injury on anyone but he will be no loss at all, what Gatland was thinking by using him as L/Head cover today god only knows as he struggles at tighthead.

Cory Allen has been ruled out torn hamstring.

He will be a loss if it means we have to jettison James or Lee from the squad.

Also, next in line is Scott Andrews

Rob Evans in for James then yeah Andrews next in line

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Sidestep wrote:If both teams play to they're best ability then Wales should win.  More star quality.   But Twickenham definitely will be a fierce place to play against England.  Even more so in a world cup.  

Looking through the likely Welsh team, I am looking for any Welshman that would make the starting 15 for England, at 8 possibly although we are strong there, North possibly but Watson is class. Roberts is too one dimensional for this England team.

I am not trying to cause a row, but England have a style that scores tries, Wales have a style that looks to cause mistakes and then us the boot. I would struggle to call many of the likely starting XV "Star Quality" Faletau, North and Roberts (in a limited way) are the only stand outs. Others are names from the past that may once have been good, but are struggling these days.

England have a back three that scares the pants off most opposition, OC that can make a lot out of a little, three different combos at half back that all work well together to suit whatever game plan Stewie comes up with and two packs which although they haven't  fired yet can take just about anyone else apart.

Plus we have Gods gift to RU, or will be by next year, the mighty Sam Burgess who if picked might just show Roberts that running straight at people is not such a good idea.

Save it till next Sunday, then you can dissect what when wrong while crying in your beer.

To be honest if we lose it'll more be down to England's performance at scrum and ruck then anything Wales manage.

Injuries are making the calling up of Moriarty a very bad call now.

So worse case scenario and James, Jarvis, Lee, Allen (most definitely), Lydiate and Williams are all out what sort of side are we looking at:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Francis
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

Davies
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Amos

Evans, Owens, ???, Ball, Moriarty, Phillips, Priestland, ???

In all honesty that's still a pretty much 1st choice pack, its the backs were we are looking weak now.

Lydiate apparently passed a concussion test so will be fit to train/play.

wales606 wrote:Lydiate apparently passed a concussion test so will be fit to train/play.

In that case then I would happily start him or put him on bench instead of Moriarty

bedfordwelsh wrote:So worse case scenario and James, Jarvis, Lee, Allen (most definitely), Lydiate and Williams are all out what sort of side are we looking at:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Francis
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

Davies
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Amos

Evans, Owens, ???, Ball, Moriarty, Phillips, Priestland, ???

In all honesty that's still a pretty much 1st choice pack, its the backs were we are looking weak now.

Last spot on bench is Matt Morgan, right? And if Allen is long term, you can call up someone

Liam Williams aside I'm not too worried about the injuries, none of the other injured players would of started against England or Australia.
I'd never wish injuries on anyone, but I do hope Jarvis is out of contention. Thankfully Priestland was poor today as well though it won't stop Gatland wánking in his pants over picking him.
Ken Owens was awful when he came on, and terrible against Italy, so Baldwin is nailed on to start against England.
Gethin was always going to start though potentially losing Paul James takes away our first choice back up.
I was very disappointed with Gareth Davies today, I expected more. I'd bring back Mike Phillips we'll need his aggression.

Dan Biggar will control the England game fine and Jamie Roberts is our defensive general.

15 Liam Williams - if not fit, James Hook
14 George North
13 Scott Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Alex Cuthbert
10 Dan Biggar
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies - Charteris & Ball played themselves out today, both were poor.
3 Sampson Lee - if not Tom Francis. Francis will do fine vs England
2 Scott Baldwin - Ken Owens was awful against Italy, poor today as well.
1 Gethin Jenkins

ChequeredJersey wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So worse case scenario and James, Jarvis, Lee, Allen (most definitely), Lydiate and Williams are all out what sort of side are we looking at:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Francis
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

Davies
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Amos

Evans, Owens, ???, Ball, Moriarty, Phillips, Priestland, ???

In all honesty that's still a pretty much 1st choice pack, its the backs were we are looking weak now.

Last spot on bench is Matt Morgan, right? And if Allen is long term, you can call up someone

CJ,

Not sure, guess it depends on who he calls up to replace Allen. It could be Hook, Tyler Morgan (who Allen got nod over in first pace), Anscombe if fit, or Walker maybe. The front row cover on bench is major concern as likely replacement is Scott Andrews

Shifty wrote:Liam Williams aside I'm not too worried about the injuries, none of the other injured players would of started against England or Australia.
I'd never wish injuries on anyone, but I do hope Jarvis is out of contention.  Thankfully Priestland was poor today as well though it won't stop Gatland wánking in his pants over picking him.  
Ken Owens was awful when he came on, and terrible against Italy, so Baldwin is nailed on to start against England.    
Gethin was always going to start though potentially losing Paul James takes away our first choice back up.
I was very disappointed with Gareth Davies today, I expected more.  I'd bring back Mike Phillips we'll need his aggression.

Dan Biggar will control the England game fine and Jamie Roberts is our defensive general.  

15 Liam Williams - if not fit, James Hook
14 George North
13 Scott Williams
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Alex Cuthbert
10 Dan Biggar
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies - Charteris & Ball played themselves out today, both were poor.
3 Sampson Lee - if not Tom Francis.  Francis will do fine vs England
2 Scott Baldwin - Ken Owens was awful against Italy, poor today as well.
1 Gethin Jenkins

Shifty,

The bold bit I have highlighted:

If Jarvis is out the option to call up is Andrews - God help us.
Priestland wasn't worst player out there todat there were far worse
Why Hook at XV, I would call up Tyler Morgan and be happy with Amos at XV if Williams out or certainly on wing over Cuthbert who was shocking today
Thought Ball played will today in a patchy poor game
If Francis plays and Jarvis is ruled out then again see point one as to who would be back up on the bench

Cuthbert has been poor for a while but today he was awful

ChequeredJersey wrote:Cuthbert has been poor for a while but today he was awful

Agreed. Williams' injury means he may start next but Watson will skin him alive.

Even if his handling were on form and he were scoring tries like we all have seen him do, against Watson/Brown, Nadolo and Folau/Tomane/Speight, surely his defence would still be a concern? Especially Nadolo...

If Liam Williams isnt fit I reckon he will play Hallam Amos 15

Jesus poor Wales. No other nation having to deal with this level of injuries, what the hell is going on?

Likely now going into the england game without 5/6 first XV players..

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So worse case scenario and James, Jarvis, Lee, Allen (most definitely), Lydiate and Williams are all out what sort of side are we looking at:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Francis
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

Davies
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Amos

Evans, Owens, ???, Ball, Moriarty, Phillips, Priestland, ???

In all honesty that's still a pretty much 1st choice pack, its the backs were we are looking weak now.

Last spot on bench is Matt Morgan, right? And if Allen is long term, you can call up someone

CJ,

Not sure, guess it depends on who he calls up to replace Allen. It could be Hook, Tyler Morgan (who Allen got nod over in first pace), Anscombe if fit, or Walker maybe.  The front row cover on bench is major concern as likely replacement is Scott Andrews

Eli Walker was called up, but was injured so was removed and replaced with Morgan.

Marshes wrote:Jesus poor Wales. No other nation having to deal with this level of injuries, what the hell is going on?

Likely now going into the england game without 5/6 first XV players..

I make it 5, but...

Training pre World Cup too intense? Too much muscle put on? Something seems up...

Lydiate is okay. Allen is out for the rest of the tournament like we suspected. We might be down another 15 unless Williams is okay, Amos or Morgan might be required to cover there. Tyler Morgan is likely to be the centre called up.

If Jarvis is ruled out Wales should call up Craig Mitchell, done ok with the Blues so far this season. Andrews is a garbage scrummager.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Marshes wrote:Jesus poor Wales. No other nation having to deal with this level of injuries, what the hell is going on?

Likely now going into the england game without 5/6 first XV players..

I make it 5, but...

Training pre World Cup too intense? Too much muscle put on? Something seems up...

Yep Halfpenny, Webb, Lee, Davies and Liam Williams. Aside from halfpenny's I think most of them have been in contact (?), can't really train for that!

ChequeredJersey wrote:Even if his handling were on form and he were scoring tries like we all have seen him do, against Watson/Brown, Nadolo and Folau/Tomane/Speight, surely his defence would still be a concern? Especially Nadolo...

That can also be hung around Norths neck as well but people don't seem to label him in the same way.

Marshes wrote:Jesus poor Wales. No other nation having to deal with this level of injuries, what the hell is going on?

Likely now going into the england game without 5/6 first XV players..

No still only 3 def poss 4

Stephen Jones, despite giving Brown a rating of 9/10 against Fiji, says we need to drop him for Goode against Wales. Discuss

VinceWLB wrote:If Jarvis is ruled out Wales should call up Craig Mitchell, done ok with the Blues so far this season. Andrews is a garbage scrummager.

I doubt he will call up anyone who wasn't in the original/extended squad.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Stephen Jones, despite giving Brown a rating of 9/10 against Fiji, says we need to drop him for Goode against Wales. Discuss

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee do Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee lol

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Marshes wrote:Jesus poor Wales. No other nation having to deal with this level of injuries, what the hell is going on?

Likely now going into the england game without 5/6 first XV players..

No still only 3 def poss 4

Webb. JD2, Halfpenny and possibly Lee and L.Williams

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So worse case scenario and James, Jarvis, Lee, Allen (most definitely), Lydiate and Williams are all out what sort of side are we looking at:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Francis
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

Davies
Biggar

North
Roberts
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Amos

Evans, Owens, ???, Ball, Moriarty, Phillips, Priestland, ???

In all honesty that's still a pretty much 1st choice pack, its the backs were we are looking weak now.

Last spot on bench is Matt Morgan, right? And if Allen is long term, you can call up someone

CJ,

Not sure, guess it depends on who he calls up to replace Allen. It could be Hook, Tyler Morgan (who Allen got nod over in first pace), Anscombe if fit, or Walker maybe.  The front row cover on bench is major concern as likely replacement is Scott Andrews

Eli Walker was called up, but was injured so was removed and replaced with Morgan.

Gatland said that he could also be called back up later if required as was released before the tournament actually started.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Even if his handling were on form and he were scoring tries like we all have seen him do, against Watson/Brown, Nadolo and Folau/Tomane/Speight, surely his defence would still be a concern? Especially Nadolo...

That can also be hung around Norths neck as well but people don't seem to label him in the same way.

Going by recent form it's quite clear that it can only be hung around the neck of Cuthbert.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:If Jarvis is ruled out Wales should call up Craig Mitchell, done ok with the Blues so far this season. Andrews is a garbage scrummager.

I doubt he will call up anyone who wasn't in the original/extended squad.

Mitchell is a better shout, but he's another injury prone player!

He is I never said he wasn't but I doubt Gatland will call up anyone who wasn't in his original squads and I haven't seen anything to say Norths defence has improved.

I know, but I was getting at that Mitchell is a better shout because I actually forgot that he might be available! It is likely Andrews will get the nod though . Well I haven't seen him miss any tackles yet Cuthbert still is whilst not scoring tries.

I agree Cuthbert is in terrible form and I wouldn't pick him either but his defence is no worse or better than Norths, for guys their size its very poor but North does have that something extra.

If Williams is unfit then I would put Amos at XV and the Cuthbert I guess would start, if Williams is fit then Amos takes his spot on the wing.

If you do go with Francis then how long will you expect him to last?

lostinwales wrote:If you do go with Francis then how long will you expect him to last?

60 minutes will be fine, we will have it in the bag by then anyway

wales606 wrote:Jarvis, James and Lee all injured.

If two of them aren't going to be fit for next week then Gatland has to call people up and remove them from the squad

Where did you hear that?

Anscombe might be another option, he was ruled out for the first game and possibly the second but anything has to be better than Matthew Morgan at full back.

It's always a shame to see rugby players injured. But I saw nothing today that would worry England overly. England just need to keep the penalty count low like they did against Ireland and it will be a comfortable win. Barring injuries.

englandglory4ever wrote:It's always a shame to see rugby players injured. But I saw nothing today that would worry England overly.  England just need to keep the penalty count low like they did against Ireland and it will be a comfortable win. Barring injuries.

This one could come back to bite you

englandglory4ever wrote:It's always a shame to see rugby players injured. But I saw nothing today that would worry England overly.  England just need to keep the penalty count low like they did against Ireland and it will be a comfortable win. Barring injuries.

Neither Wales nor England set world alight over the weekend so still all to play for in my mind at moment. Aussies won't be quaking in their boots either.

I haven't been keeping up.
Does England have much by way of injuries?

Anyone know which day the team is announced? I guess what with scans and Medical advice it will likely be Thursday.

George Carlin wrote:I haven't been keeping up.
Does England have much by way of injuries?

All good GC.

The only non tactical sub against Fiji was Parling & he has recovered from the slight knock.

L.Williams thigh injury is thought "not to be serious" apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34309231

wales606 wrote:L.Williams thigh injury is thought "not to be serious" apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34309231

Great news... They did say they thought they t was just a dead leg not muscle or ligament damage...

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:L.Williams thigh injury is thought "not to be serious" apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34309231

Great news... They did say they thought they t was just a dead leg not muscle or ligament damage...

Although it is not clear where the bbc got that information as Gatland said it would take 24hrs to assess....so...

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:L.Williams thigh injury is thought "not to be serious" apparently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34309231

Great news... They did say they thought they t was just a dead leg not muscle or ligament damage...

Although it is not clear where the bbc got that information as Gatland said it would take 24hrs to assess....so...

Nice to see the BBC actually being optimistic with regards to Welsh rugby for a change

bedfordwelsh wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:It's always a shame to see rugby players injured. But I saw nothing today that would worry England overly.  England just need to keep the penalty count low like they did against Ireland and it will be a comfortable win. Barring injuries.

Neither Wales nor England set world alight over the weekend so still all to play for in my mind at moment.  Aussies won't be quaking in their boots either.

Really?

I suspect that after watching Japan take SA down, Australia wont be taking anything for granted. England have a passable record against them at Twickenham.

Am I being a bit dense or do the last 2 sentences contradict each other?

Gatland added tight-head Lee and loose-head James are both struggling with "tight calves", while Jarvis damaged a rib cartilage.
"We may have to make a tough decision in terms of the props, because we have to have five props," said Gatland.
"At the moment we've only got three that could take the field and we have to have four."