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Lions team if picked today

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Post by R!skysports Tue 20 Oct 2015, 3:45 pm

Updated this to include my team

This should be selected on World Cup form alone. So no injured people who did not play no 6 nations form - there will be a chance to choose then too


1. Dickinson (S)
2. Ford (S)
3. Nel (S)
4. Charteris (W)
5. J. Gray (S)
6. Warburton [c] (W)
7. Hardie (S)
8. Denton (S)

9. Laidlaw (S)
10. Biggar (W)
11. Watson (E)
12. Henshaw (I)
13. Bennett (S)
14. Bowe (I)
15. Brown (E)

16. Best (I)
17. Healy (I)
18. Ross (I)
19. Henderson (I)
20. Lydiate (W)
21. Murray (I)
22. Ford (E)
23. Hogg (S)





Last edited by Riskysports on Wed 21 Oct 2015, 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by nathan Tue 20 Oct 2015, 3:56 pm

pretty much all would be English.... Wink

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 20 Oct 2015, 3:57 pm

I am sure the likes of Mako Vunipola, Billy Vunipola, Brad Barritt, Alex Corbisiero, WP Nell, Josh Strauss, John Hardie, Blair Cowan, Dave Denton, Tommy Seymour, Tim Visser, Sean Maitland, Richardt Strauss, Nathan White, Jamie Heaslip, Isaac Boss, Taulupe Faletau and Gareth Anscombe would all be in with a shout.


Run

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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:00 pm

nathan wrote:pretty much all would be English.... Wink


Pretty much depends on who the coach is.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:20 pm

I'm feeling brave match day 23 as per right now (fit and form) :

1. Dickinson (S)
2. Ford (S)
3. Nel (S)
4. Charteris (W)
5. J. Gray (S)
6. Warburton [c] (W)
7. Hardie (S)
8. Denton (S)

9. Davies (W)
10. Biggar (W)
11. Watson (E)
12. Henshaw (I)
13. Bennett (S)
14. North (W)
15. Brown (E)

16. Best (I)
17. Healy (I)
18. Ross (I)
19. Henderson (I)
20. Lydiate (W)
21. Murray (I)
22. Ford (E)
23. Hogg (S)

All just my opinion mind....
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:24 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm feeling brave match day 23 as per right now (fit and form) :

1. Dickinson (S)
2. Ford (S)
3. Nel (S)
4. Charteris (W)
5. J. Gray (S)
6. Warburton [c] (W)
7. Hardie (S)
8. Denton (S)

9. Davies (W)
10. Biggar (W)
11. Watson (E)
12. Henshaw (I)
13. Bennett (S)
14. North (W)
15. Brown (E)

16. Best (I)
17. Healy (I)
18. Ross (I)
19. Henderson (I)
20. Lydiate (W)
21. Murray (I)
22. Ford (E)
23. Hogg (S)

All just my opinion mind....

and would that team beat the all blacks?

No.
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Post by Geordie Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:30 pm

Lancaster would be the coach.... Very Happy

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:36 pm

Why do people insist on moving one of the best 7s in the game to 6 to accommodate others? Lydiate himself is a world class 6 and is better in that position than Warburton and I would still have AWJ in the 2nd row.

North for me has been poor so I wouldn't have him down as an automatic choice, he's just not the player he was 18 months ago and for me Joseph would have to be in the centre.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:43 pm

I can't actually believe I'm doing this, but here goes:

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Nel 4.AWJ 5.Charteris 6.Lydiate 7.Hardie 8.Denton 9.Davies 10.Biggar 11.Seymour 12.Henshaw 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.Dickinson 17.Baldwin 18.Ross 19.J Gray 20.SOB 21.Webb 22.Ford 23.R Kearney

All Blacks to win by 30 points!

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:43 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Why do people insist on moving one of the best 7s in the game to 6 to accommodate others?  Lydiate himself is a world class 6 and is better in that position than Warburton and I would still have AWJ in the 2nd row.

North for me has been poor so I wouldn't have him down as an automatic choice, he's just not the player he was 18 months ago and for me Joseph would have to be in the centre.

I think Hardie had a better World Cup than Warburton, but I still would take him as a leader and a captain. Lydiate is probably technically a better 6 than Warbs but he doesn't offer as much in terms of leadership.

AWJ - see my comments in the overrated thread. Joseph did not shine in the RWC and I based my team on current form. Henshaw has played well for Ireland and Bennett has played well for Scotland.

Like I said fit and form IMO.
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Post by nathan Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:44 pm

It's a bit strange that England have mainly backs included and hardly any forwards - when has it ever been like that!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:46 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why do people insist on moving one of the best 7s in the game to 6 to accommodate others?  Lydiate himself is a world class 6 and is better in that position than Warburton and I would still have AWJ in the 2nd row.

North for me has been poor so I wouldn't have him down as an automatic choice, he's just not the player he was 18 months ago and for me Joseph would have to be in the centre.

I think Hardie had a better World Cup than Warburton, but I still would take him as a leader and a captain. Lydiate is probably technically a better 6 than Warbs but he doesn't offer as much in terms of leadership.

AWJ - see my comments in the overrated thread. Joseph did not shine in the RWC and I based my team on current form. Henshaw has played well for Ireland and Bennett has played well for Scotland.

Like I said fit and form IMO.

Yet you picked North? I gues it's all about personal choices but I thought Warburton had a great WC and finally put the debate (not that there was one for me) of him or Tipuric to bed.
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:48 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why do people insist on moving one of the best 7s in the game to 6 to accommodate others?  Lydiate himself is a world class 6 and is better in that position than Warburton and I would still have AWJ in the 2nd row.

North for me has been poor so I wouldn't have him down as an automatic choice, he's just not the player he was 18 months ago and for me Joseph would have to be in the centre.

I think Hardie had a better World Cup than Warburton, but I still would take him as a leader and a captain. Lydiate is probably technically a better 6 than Warbs but he doesn't offer as much in terms of leadership.

AWJ - see my comments in the overrated thread. Joseph did not shine in the RWC and I based my team on current form. Henshaw has played well for Ireland and Bennett has played well for Scotland.

Like I said fit and form IMO.

Yet you picked North?  I gues it's all about personal choices but I thought Warburton had a great WC and finally put the debate (not that there was one for me) of him or Tipuric to bed.

North made some good yards against SA, he didn't get enough ball throughout the tournament though. A bye product of Roberts at 12.

North in space with his hands on the ball is lethal. That's something I reckon my backline could provide. With Brown and Bennett running good support lines, feck it the Lions by 3!
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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 20 Oct 2015, 4:56 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why do people insist on moving one of the best 7s in the game to 6 to accommodate others?  Lydiate himself is a world class 6 and is better in that position than Warburton and I would still have AWJ in the 2nd row.

North for me has been poor so I wouldn't have him down as an automatic choice, he's just not the player he was 18 months ago and for me Joseph would have to be in the centre.

I think Hardie had a better World Cup than Warburton, but I still would take him as a leader and a captain. Lydiate is probably technically a better 6 than Warbs but he doesn't offer as much in terms of leadership.

AWJ - see my comments in the overrated thread. Joseph did not shine in the RWC and I based my team on current form. Henshaw has played well for Ireland and Bennett has played well for Scotland.

Like I said fit and form IMO.

Yet you picked North?  I gues it's all about personal choices but I thought Warburton had a great WC and finally put the debate (not that there was one for me) of him or Tipuric to bed.

North made some good yards against SA, he didn't get enough ball throughout the tournament though. A bye product of Roberts at 12.

North in space with his hands on the ball is lethal. That's something I reckon my backline could provide. With Brown and Bennett running good support lines, feck it the Lions by 3!

lol 2-1 series win I reckon. On the North issue I really don't think he is the player he was 18 months ago and I wonder (understandable if so) if after his run of head knocks if he is a little bit more cautious/nervous than he was.
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Post by Shifty Tue 20 Oct 2015, 7:19 pm

15 Brown (England)
14 Bowe (Ireland)
13 Joseph (England)
12 Roberts (Wales)
11 North (Wales)
10 Biggar (Wales)
9 Webb (Wales)
8 Denton (Scotland)
7 Warburton (Wales)
6 Sean O'Brien (Ireland)
5 Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
4 Richie Gray (Scotland)
3 Willem Petrus Nel (Scotland)
2 Ross Ford (Scotland)
1 Alasdair Dickinson (Scotland)

Jesus, looking at my own team, I can't believe I've gone for so many Scottish and so few Irish, though England and Wales scrums have been smashed in this world cup. Scotland are the only ones who did well in that department, I guess Gray is next inline now POC has retired. Denton was the best ball carrying No8 (when he concentrates)!

I still say Webb is number one, though Gareth Davies did brilliantly. Full back is a bit of a toss up, I don't think Hogg handles pressure very well, and I think Brown is a complete tósser, but he did pretty well in the world cup over all. Roberts has to go in an inside center because he is the one who organises the Welsh defense.
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Post by TJ Tue 20 Oct 2015, 7:28 pm

Indeed shifty - a year ago only the most deluded of scots would have had more than maybe Jonny Gray in there and even he was no cert. I'd find a place for Bennett as well if I could.

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Post by SimonofSurrey Wed 21 Oct 2015, 8:49 am

nathan wrote:It's a bit strange that England have mainly backs included and hardly any forwards - when has it ever been like that!

But that, bizarrely, is where we appear to be. Brown/Watson/JJ/Burrell-Slade/May-Nowell/Ford/Care-Youngs has a nice look to it. Add Cips and - once fit - maybe Manu and definitely Foden into the mix and that's a decent set of players to choose from. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can find at the moment eight large Englishmen capable of giving them much ball to play with.

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Post by nathan Wed 21 Oct 2015, 8:53 am

SimonofSurrey wrote:
nathan wrote:It's a bit strange that England have mainly backs included and hardly any forwards - when has it ever been like that!

But that, bizarrely, is where we appear to be. Brown/Watson/JJ/Burrell-Slade/May-Nowell/Ford/Care-Youngs has a nice look to it. Add Cips and - once fit - maybe Manu and definitely Foden into the mix and that's a decent set of players to choose from. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can find at the moment eight large Englishmen capable of giving them much ball to play with.  

The have been good in the past, we just need to return to whatever we were doing then

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Oct 2015, 9:24 am

All depends on the coach. If Gats is in charge.... Run

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Post by TJ Wed 21 Oct 2015, 9:29 am

Interesting that folk have gone for Biggar over Sexton. Again pre WC it would have been the other way round

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 21 Oct 2015, 9:34 am

I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 9:54 am

RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

I agree to be fair. Its harsh but as much as I rate Nel, perhaps the no.2 tighthead in the world and far better than JDP & Malherbe right now but he's a mercernary only. The minute his contract with edinburgh finishes he'll up sticks and leave back to SA. Playing for your national side should mean more than simply playing for self glory and money, the lions too.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:01 am

fa0019 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

I agree to be fair. Its harsh but as much as I rate Nel, perhaps the no.2 tighthead in the world and far better than JDP & Malherbe right now but he's a mercernary only. The minute his contract with edinburgh finishes he'll up sticks and leave back to SA. Playing for your national side should mean more than simply playing for self glory and money, the lions too.

Can't really disagree with that.

However if you have got a player who moved here from a young age (primary school for example), with 2 Samoan or South African parents and no blood ties to the country, can you really deny him a place in the team?

He would have grown up in England or Wales, gone through the rugby development systems for that country and essentially feels Welsh or English can you deny him the ultimate honour of representing the Lions?

Tough call.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:03 am

RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

so you are also ruling out parentage?


I have enjoyed travelling and following Lions tours - but have joined the growing mob who feel they should be disbanded.

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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:05 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

I agree to be fair. Its harsh but as much as I rate Nel, perhaps the no.2 tighthead in the world and far better than JDP & Malherbe right now but he's a mercernary only. The minute his contract with edinburgh finishes he'll up sticks and leave back to SA. Playing for your national side should mean more than simply playing for self glory and money, the lions too.

Can't really disagree with that.

However if you have got a player who moved here from a young age (primary school for example), with 2 Samoan or South African parents and no blood ties to the country, can you really deny him a place in the team?

He would have grown up in England or Wales, gone through the rugby development systems for that country and essentially feels Welsh or English can you deny him the ultimate honour of representing the Lions?

Tough call.


Yeah obviously thats diff Rug. Those guys have every right.... its the mercs that come as adults. Some come young, marry local girls, form roots. Some are in the UK for the stay only. Big distinction.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:07 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

so you are also ruling out parentage?


I have enjoyed travelling and following Lions tours - but have joined the growing mob who feel they should be disbanded.

I disagree Tiger, and this is coming from the nation who normally only gets token representation (aside from medical care, we have a monopoly on that).

It's an important rugby tradition and for many players still represents the "Everest" they strive towards.
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Post by RubyGuby Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:09 am

I'm ruling out short term residency's or mercenary's etc and all foreign coaches. I agree LT that people like Faletau who's been here since the age of 3 etc. need to be considered differently as they have grown up in that culture and in many ways it defines them as much as their birthplace. I've said it before, if you don't know what Nationality you are by the time your 12 years of age then you have 1 serious identity crisis.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:11 am

The Lions should be selected from players who are eligible under the IRB rules to play for Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. End of.

Given the vast popularity and commercial success, the notion of disbanding the Lions is frankly ridiculous. It's not like they aren't competitive either. The last two tours have been very close, and thanks to Warren Gatland and his troops last time around, the Lions won a series. Given the preparation times and challenges of forming a cohesive team whilst fulfilling touring committments, I think that's an awesome achievement.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:43 am

RubyGuby wrote:I'm ruling out short term residency's or mercenary's etc and all foreign coaches. I agree LT that people like Faletau who's been here since the age of 3 etc. need to be considered differently as they have grown up in that culture and in many ways it defines them as much as their birthplace. I've said it before, if you don't know what Nationality you are by the time your 12 years of age then you have 1 serious identity crisis.

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Just you seemed to rule out Brad Barrit (fair aenough on ability grounds) but he qualified via an English mother.

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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 10:44 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I'm ruling out short term residency's or mercenary's etc and all foreign coaches. I agree LT that people like Faletau who's been here since the age of 3 etc. need to be considered differently as they have grown up in that culture and in many ways it defines them as much as their birthplace. I've said it before, if you don't know what Nationality you are by the time your 12 years of age then you have 1 serious identity crisis.

thumbsup

Just you seemed to rule out Brad Barrit (fair aenough on ability grounds) but he qualified via an English mother.

WP Nel... would be ironclad for the 3 jersey at the moment. Hell he'd be ironclad for the springbok 3 jersey at the moment.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:19 am

Too many Scottish players in all these teams picked for my liking. What has made these players all of a sudden be better than the players who constantly beat them in the 6N every year ?

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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:Too many Scottish players in all these teams picked for my liking. What has made these players all of a sudden be better than the players who constantly beat them in the 6N every year ?

That would mean it would be full of Englishman. It was a question on who would be in it today LD to be fair.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:23 am

fa0019 wrote:That would mean it would be full of Englishman. It was a question on who would be in it today LD to be fair.

Well ok, what have they done better than Wales or Ireland at this WC ?

Also, why would what I said make it full of Englishmen ?

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:32 am

LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:That would mean it would be full of Englishman. It was a question on who would be in it today LD to be fair.

Well ok, what have they done better than Wales or Ireland at this WC ?

Also, why would what I said make it full of Englishmen ?

Erm, we didn't get manshamed by Argentina for a start. The Irish players who were fit's stock has dropped quite a bit after that result.

Our scrum dented the Australia scrum better than Wales or England's so naturally our tight five should be in contention, and we scored more points against Australia than Wales and England combined, and we didn't have 13 men to play against. The welsh attack was quite blunt against Australia.

Scotland also comfortably saw off Japan a test that some expected us to fail after their performance against South Africa. We also Scored 17 tries in the tournament without a bunch of Uruguayan part time whipping boys to bloat our try scoring figures.

On form at the moment, Scotland & Wales have played the best out of the Lions nations in the RWC hence take the bulk of the slots in my team.

As I said my team is an opinion. I'm curious to see what your team would look like Lordy. thumbsup
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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:That would mean it would be full of Englishman. It was a question on who would be in it today LD to be fair.

Well ok, what have they done better than Wales or Ireland at this WC ?

Also, why would what I said make it full of Englishmen ?

Did quite well in the 6N no... in fact in terms of total points in the last RWC cycle they've have equal top with Wales (32 over last 4 years) and have also had joint first number of wins (16) with Wales too.

This isn't about teams anyhow.... its about players.

In 93 Ieuen Evans played in quite possibly the worst era for Welsh rugby in history... still was in the Lions first team from 89-93-97... because he was the best right wing in the UK & Ireland.

Myself I'd only say Nel, maybe dickinson and maybe Gray but that's it myself although IC is up in the air to be fair... one of 3 could easily have strong claims. Who cares anyhow.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:37 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:That would mean it would be full of Englishman. It was a question on who would be in it today LD to be fair.

Well ok, what have they done better than Wales or Ireland at this WC ?

Also, why would what I said make it full of Englishmen ?

Erm, we didn't get manshamed by Argentina for a start.

Our scrum dented the Australia scrum better than Wales or England's so naturally our tight five should be selected, and we scored more points against Australia than Wales and England combined, and we didn't have 13 men to play against.

Scotland also comfortably saw off Japan a test that some expected us to fail after their performance against South Africa. We also Scored 17 tries in the tournament without a bunch of Uruguayan part time whipping boys to bloat our try scoring figures.

On form at the moment, Scotland & Wales have played the best out of the Lions nations in the RWC hence take the bulk of the slots in my team.

As I said my team is an opinion. I'm curious to see what your team would look like Lordy. thumbsup

Scotland did not beat a side ranked in the top ten in this tournament. In-fact when was the last time they did ? Italy or Argentina probably a year or two ago.

Yes you beat Japan after they beat South Africa, but Japan were fecked. They were knackered. Also you do realise that Australia put 5 tries past you don't you ?

Look, I do not want to pour water on your fire, it's nice to see some enthusiasm from our Cetlic brethren for a change, but come on, lets have some realism here. thumbsup

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Post by beshocked Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:40 am

ruggerradge2611 you took on Japan after they only had 4 days rest. Not sure you can be too pleased about that. Japan were quite clearly tired.

Scotland will need to maintain their performances to have representation in the Lions.

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Post by fa0019 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 11:45 am

beshocked wrote:ruggerradge2611 you took on Japan after they only had 4 days rest. Not sure you can be too pleased about that. Japan were quite clearly tired.

Scotland will need to maintain their performances to have representation in the Lions.

Yes but they scored 3 tries against AUS and lost to them cruelly... perhaps will be the closest anyone in this RWC gets to beating them. I don'tt think anyone else can say they actually pushed AUS like Scotland pushed AUS.

Yes Pocock and Folau were out... but that makes a hill of beans difference when Scotland were getting the nudge on AUS in the scrum and denying them front foot ball... something England and Wales were blown away by.

Why do people think the Lions are something that is represented by past form... its not. Its the best players at that given time of the tour.

Shane Williams was world player of the year in 2008, in 2009 he was lucky to make the squad and featured only in the dead rubber.. behind Monye & Fitzgerald.

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Post by beshocked Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:00 pm

fa0019 wrote:
beshocked wrote:ruggerradge2611 you took on Japan after they only had 4 days rest. Not sure you can be too pleased about that. Japan were quite clearly tired.

Scotland will need to maintain their performances to have representation in the Lions.

Yes but they scored 3 tries against AUS and lost to them cruelly... perhaps will be the closest anyone in this RWC gets to beating them. I don'tt think anyone else can say they actually pushed AUS like Scotland pushed AUS.

Yes Pocock and Folau were out... but that makes a hill of beans difference when Scotland were getting the nudge on AUS in the scrum and denying them front foot ball... something England and Wales were blown away by.

Why do people think the Lions are something that is represented by past form... its not. Its the best players at that given time of the tour.

Shane Williams was world player of the year in 2008, in 2009 he was lucky to make the squad and featured only in the dead rubber.. behind Monye & Fitzgerald.

Two tries were a chargedown and an interception. I guess you could say it's opportunistic but we can hardly say the tries were great. Good pressure yes but silly from Australia.

Yes you are right - no side has pushed Australia like you did and Scotland were unlucky but the opportunity for a famous win was there.

Australia were under a lot of pressure, missed far too many kicks at goal, gave away a chargedown and interception - they made to look beatable and should have been.

I wanted Scotland to win but sadly it's a near miss.

I agree it's the best players at the given time. The tour is not happening now.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

Scotland did not beat a side ranked in the top ten in this tournament. In-fact when was the last time they did ? Italy or Argentina probably a year or two ago.

Yes you beat Japan after they beat South Africa, but Japan were fecked. They were knackered. Also you do realise that Australia put 5 tries past you don't you ?

Look, I do not want to pour water on your fire, it's nice to see some enthusiasm from our Cetlic brethren for a change, but come on, lets have some realism here. thumbsup

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29921000

15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore


15 Joaquin Tuculet
14 Juan Imhoff
13 Marcelo Bosch
12 Juan Martín Hernandez
11 Manuel Montero
10 Nicolas Sanchez
9 Martin Landajo
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Agustin Creevy (capt)
3 Ramiro Herrera
4 Tomas Lavanini
5 Juan Cruz Guillemai
6 Rodrigo Baez
7 Javier Ortega Desio
8 Leonardo Senatore


The green team just humped Ireland, Scotland humped the blue team in our last encounter scoring 5 tries.

Is consistently beating NH opposition the prerequisite for Lions inclusion? If so then why have so many threads sprung up bemoaning the gulf in class between opposition?

The thread is if the Lions were NOW, not during the last 6N, not during last years Autumn tests. NOW NOW NOW NOW  

If there is a compelling case for less Scots, make one please. I think currently, fit and on form. The bulk of the team will be Scottish and Welsh.


beshocked wrote:ruggerradge2611 you took on Japan after they only had 4 days rest. Not sure you can be too pleased about that. Japan were quite clearly tired.

Scotland will need to maintain their performances to have representation in the Lions.

Tired of this now.

So by that logic we should have been too tired to play the USA?!

This is absolute nonsense. Scotland had 3 games in 10 days. The worst turnaround of any of the nations in this RWC.

Japan 4 days later the USA 6 days later SOUTH AFRICA!
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Post by alive555 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:00 pm

[quote="fa0019"]
RubyGuby wrote:I have said this before and so I'll say it again - I do not think the B&I Lions should include any foreign players who have qualified via residency. If this continues the Lions will eventually be full of Samoans, Fijians, NZ, Aus and Saffas and that just doesn't do it for me as it waters everything down. I would also make it mandatory that we had a B&I coaching team. Where is the pride here!!! Having Barritt or Nel or Vunipolo score for us against SH teams is just embarrassing for me. Just my opinion

thumbsup

I agree to be fair. Its harsh but as much as I rate Nel, perhaps the no.2 tighthead in the world and far better than JDP & Malherbe right now but he's a mercernary only. The minute his contract with edinburgh finishes he'll up sticks and leave back to SA.

u mean in the same way all the other players whose CURRENT contracts have led them to up sticks and leave for more money elsewhere laughing

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:03 pm

beshocked wrote:

Two tries were a chargedown and an interception. I guess you could say it's opportunistic but we can hardly say the tries were great. Good pressure yes but silly from Australia.

Thanks for that comment Beshocked.

Tom English wrote:It's too easy to say that Scotland got lucky with a succession of intercept tries. When it keeps happening you know that something else is at play. It's like that old, tongue-in-cheek line from Gary Player when asked about his good fortune in golf: "The more I practise the luckier I get."
Tommy Seymour scored intercept tries against Japan and Samoa. Duncan Weir intercepted against South Africa and Seymour got on the end of the breakaway and scored again. Mark Bennett got an intercept try against Australia on Sunday. Seymour got another 'lucky' try when Finn Russell charged down Bernard Foley.
Is it a series of flukes or is it more about a set of sharp-thinking backs with terrific game-awareness and an eye for a chance? The latter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34574651
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:11 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
beshocked wrote:

Two tries were a chargedown and an interception. I guess you could say it's opportunistic but we can hardly say the tries were great. Good pressure yes but silly from Australia.

Thanks for that comment Beshocked.

Tom English wrote:It's too easy to say that Scotland got lucky with a succession of intercept tries. When it keeps happening you know that something else is at play. It's like that old, tongue-in-cheek line from Gary Player when asked about his good fortune in golf: "The more I practise the luckier I get."
Tommy Seymour scored intercept tries against Japan and Samoa. Duncan Weir intercepted against South Africa and Seymour got on the end of the breakaway and scored again. Mark Bennett got an intercept try against Australia on Sunday. Seymour got another 'lucky' try when Finn Russell charged down Bernard Foley.
Is it a series of flukes or is it more about a set of sharp-thinking backs with terrific game-awareness and an eye for a chance? The latter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34574651

I agree with Tom English.

Beshocked, you know as a Sarries fan the importance of applying pressure and being ready to pounce on opposition mistakes. Sarries are probably the sharpest team in the NH at doing this.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:12 pm

Until Scotland beat teams ranked in the top ten consistently and not the odd one off every year or so, then I am sorry, they will not have more than the token player in a Lions squad.

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Post by beshocked Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:20 pm

ruggerradge2611

Of course USA were one of the strongest sides in the competition.....

Scotland were fresh going into the Japan game as it was your first match, Japan had just come off the back of a draining encounter with SA with only a 4 day turnaround.

Do you think SA are as tough as USA?

Playing a stronger side is naturally going to take more out of you.

What do you want me to say about the chargedown and intercept? Do you want me to say they were brilliant pieces of Scottish skill?

I acknowledged it was good pressure by Scotland and quite clearly you had Australia rattled but these mistakes were silly.

FES as a Sarries fan yes I have seen many of a chargedown and intercept and most of the ones have been stupid by the opposition. Of course pressure is good but every team needs to have more to their game.

Quins are probably the team most guilty of giving away stupid intercepts to Saracens.

It's a mix of good pressure and stupidity by the opposition.


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Post by RubyGuby Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I'm ruling out short term residency's or mercenary's etc and all foreign coaches. I agree LT that people like Faletau who's been here since the age of 3 etc. need to be considered differently as they have grown up in that culture and in many ways it defines them as much as their birthplace. I've said it before, if you don't know what Nationality you are by the time your 12 years of age then you have 1 serious identity crisis.

thumbsup

Just you seemed to rule out Brad Barrit (fair aenough on ability grounds) but he qualified via an English mother.

Barrit's parents were born in what was Rhodesia and hence a UK Passport - His Grandparents were born in England. He's South African

thumbsup

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Post by Cyril Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:25 pm

Seems odd that people are fine with 'residency', 'project' or whatever players representing their country, yet not the Lions. Especially when some of these internationals have been rushed in with undue haste recently.

Is the Lions somehow more 'sacred' than your own country?

Interested to know.


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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:26 pm

On form, no England player makes the starting team.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Until Scotland beat teams ranked in the top ten consistently and not the odd one off every year or so, then I am sorry, they will not have more than the token player in a Lions squad.

Then it will be the Lions' loss. By the same token the Lions wouldn't be interested in Gorgodze, Goromaru, Parisse, DTH and Nakawara.

You need to look at the players, the individual skills they bring to the game and could bring to the Lions environment.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 21 Oct 2015, 12:29 pm

Cyril wrote:Seems odd that people are fine with 'residency', 'project' or whatever players representing their country, yet not the Lions. Especially when some of these internationals have been rushed in with undue haste recently.

Is the Lions somehow more 'sacred' than your own country?

Interested to know.

Agree. It's complete nonsense.

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