RWC Bronze Final: South Africa v Argentina, 30 October

                     
SOUTH AFRICA v ARGENTINA

30 October 2015
20:00 BST (UTC+01)
Olympic Stadium, London

Live on [TBC]

Ref: John Lacey (Ireland)
ARs: Glen Jackson (New Zealand), Chris Pollock (New Zealand)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

21 Played 21
19 Won 1
1 Drawn 1
1 Lost 19
779 Points 410

B. Recent Form

15 August 2015
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
12 – 26 to South Africa

8 August 2015
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban
25 – 37 to Argentina

23 August 2014
Estadio Padre Ernesto Martearena, Salta
31 – 33 to South Africa

16 August 2014
Loftus Versfeld Stadium, Pretoria
13 – 6 to South Africa

24 August 2013
Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza
17 – 22 to South Africa

17 August 2013
FNB Stadium, Johannesburg
73 – 13 to South Africa

25 August 2012
Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza
16 – 16 Draw

18 August 2012
DHL Newlands, Cape Town
27 – 6 to South Africa

C. TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA

Willie le Roux; JP Pietersen, Jesse Kriel, Damian de Allende, Bryan Habana; Handre Pollard, Ruan Pienaar; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield (capt), Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Trevor Nyakane, Jannie du Plessis, Lood de Jager, Willem Alberts, Rudy Paige, Pat Lambie, Jan Serfontein.

ARGENTINA

Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, Santiago Cordero, Matias Moroni, Jeronimo De La Fuente, Horacio Agulla, Nicolas Sanchez (capt), Tomas Cubelli; Marcos Ayerza, Julian Montoya, Ramiro Herrera, Matias Alemanno, Tomas Lavanini, Javier Ortega Desio, Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, Juan Manuel Leguizamon.

Replacements: Lucas Noguera, Juan Pablo Orlandi, Juan Figallo, Guido Petti, Facundo Isa, Martin Landajo, Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, Juan Pablo Socino.

As much as I would love to see Argentina finish 3rd in the RWC for their excellent performances, I really cannot see past a rather large SA victory.

Leaving aside the issue of 'because it makes the TV channels and sponsors money', I really don't know why they bother playing this game.

I can only imagine how difficult it would be to get myself properly fired up for it as a player.

I would easily be able to get fired up for a match like this. The chance to finish 3rd in the world at a world cup? Hell yeah.

Yeah I see no issue with a thrid place play off.

With NZ and Aus clearly being the best two sides in the world, it's a genuine 'who is third?' play-off and a chance for SA to get revenge after the RC defeat.

There's plenty at stake here.

With a certain amount of pressure off, I hope we see SA play some attacking rugby with ball in hand and hopefully Argentina can get up for one more game.

Yeah cyril me too. Want to see one good game from the Boks

I'm hoping for a good game on Friday, but I can't believe John Lacey has been given the whistle for this one. I can only assume none of the panel saw his handling of New Zealand v Tonga.

Leave it to the Welsh man to bring up the ref. Quelle Surprise?

Other than perhaps the first of these games back in 87, I think they have all been dreadful matches with uninterested looking performances.

Yea, with several of the Boks squad off to earn a crust in France next week, I suspect many of those players will ask to be excused from starting, in case they cheese off their new employers by picking up a bad injury!
Albertz to Stade
Vemeulen (and Etzebeth?) to Toulon, (to join Habana)
the Du Plessis brothers to Montpellier.
I don't think their new employers would take kindly to losing the services of some of their expensive assets at this early stage of the season for a fairly meaningless match.

After the Japan defeat I can't see SA taking this easy, it's not in their dna to do that irrespective of how meaningless this game might appear.

Except for that Japan game, when the Boks did take it easy and couldn't recover their usual intensity to grind out a win!

Very hard to call game.  Those Argentines don't know when to say enough is enough!!!!  Very impressed mostly with their temperament.  They just seem to continuous re-set the clock without emotion.   If they endure a rough patch, they simply re-set their minds and off they go again.

SA have the history but ........................ well, the observation I'd make about them in this WC is that they fought their way back from the initial shock loss, but every game of meaning has looked a really hard fight for them.  You might say that about the two finalists as well but nope, I do think SA still lack something in confidence that if Argentina bite into it early they could snatch the lions share of the game and win.

Two wonderfully passionate coaches that wear their hearts (and tears) on their sleeves though so I doubt any SA player will be allowed cry-off and risk another loss for the sake of some European team waiting on the sidelines.  Meyer won't be having any of that schit, I'd reckon, and he'd be right.

SecretFly wrote:Very hard to call game.  Those Argentines don't know when to say enough is enough!!!!  Very impressed mostly with their temperament.  They just seem to continuous re-set the clock without emotion.   If they endure a rough patch, they simply re-set their minds and off they go again.

SA have the history but ........................ well, the observation I'd make about them in this WC is that they fought their way back from the initial shock loss, but every game of meaning has looked a really hard fight for them.  You might say that about the two finalists as well but nope, I do think SA still lack something in confidence that if Argentina bite into it early they could snatch the lions share of the game and win.

Two wonderfully passionate coaches that wear their hearts (and tears) on their sleeves though so I doubt any SA player will be allowed cry-off and risk another loss for the sake of some European team waiting on the sidelines.  Meyer won't be having any of that schit, I'd reckon, and he'd be right.

I'd say both Samoa and Scotland games had meaning (they had to win them both to qualify). SA destroyed them without too much trouble.

Yeah..I meant to say Samoa was an exception.... if you look on the best games thread, that game was high on my list because of the way SA came roaring back into the competition.
But SA are third or fourth best because they're third or fourth best. The game will tell but Argentina's where they are on confidence and ability, SA are where they are because they've been off the boil.

So if this weeks games go to plan, the result should be New Zealand 1-Australia 2 South Africa 3 Argentina 4.

But i hope this week does not go to plan, i hope/think that Australia will beat New Zealand and win the Rugby World Cup.

I have no issues with a 3rd place playoff - especially in this instance where SA still have a point to prove (even though I think they have already done that in getting to this stage) and Argentina will be delighted to be there - but from a rugby perspective I think the scheduling is ridiculous.

It is bad enough for one team in the final to have a day's less preparation than the other team, but to ask one team to play on the Sunday then again on the following Friday really is unfair.

There are many reasons to have that schedule - means you only need one stadium for the finals, all the fans are in the same location and it creates a good sense of atmosphere around the finals (as opposed to being dispersed around the country).

Perhaps they could have one semi-final on the Friday and the other on the Saturday instead? The groups that played their QF on a Sunday then play a Saturday SF, and those that played their QF on a Saturday get the Friday QF....if you know what I mean!

One team will still get 1 day less preparation than the other, but they would still get a full week which would be fair.

George Carlin wrote:Leaving aside the issue of 'because it makes the TV channels and sponsors money', I really don't know why they bother playing this game.

I can only imagine how difficult it would be to get myself properly fired up for it as a player.

Agreed. It'll be difficult for them to match the intensity of last weekend.

SecretFly wrote:Leave it to the Welsh man to bring up the ref.  Quelle Surprise?

Don't get precious just because Lacey's Irish (seeing as you brought nationality into it).

I think he's a poor referee, and his handling of the New Zealand v Tonga match did nothing to change my mind. I'm pretty sure he refereed Wales v Fiji too, which I missed most of because I was at work, but he didn't get rave reviews after that game either.

I hope it'll be a great game and that we won't be talking about the referee at the end of it. I fear both those things are less likely with Lacey's appointment. That's all.

Argentina would, I think, take pride in coming third. They are an aspirational rugby nation and for any of us third is good.

SA probs would not be aspirational about third, but they are the team for mine that could most benefit from having their undoubted talent let off the leash.

Could be a great game.

Go the Wallabies.

Presumably teams announced tomorrow lunchtime?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Leave it to the Welsh man to bring up the ref.  Quelle Surprise?

Don't get precious just because Lacey's Irish (seeing as you brought nationality into it).

He's Irish????

I wasn't aware of that, Luckless. I usually have to wait for your countrymen to remind me when our boys are officiating

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/matfield-to-skipper-springboks/

As a rugby fan, I've really enjoyed these games in the past as the handbrake comes off and there's nothing to lose by attacking- but Argentina haven't had any kind of handbrake on their game plan and I'm not sure a Meyer-coached Springbok side will play any differently. Still should be a good game.

As a selfish Ulster fan, every time Ruan Pienaar goes into a tackle I'll be holding my breath! Payne, Henderson and Bowe already coming home injured from this RWC.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/sanchez-captains-depleted-pumas/

Argentina: 15 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 14 Santiago Cordero, 13 Matias Moroni, 12 Jeronimo De La Fuente, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Nicolás Sánchez (c), 9 Tomas Cubelli, 8 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 7 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, 6 Javier Ortega Desio, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Matias Alemanno, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Julian Montoya, 1 Marcos Ayerza.

Replacements: 16 Lucas Noguera, 17 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 18 Juan Figallo, 19 Guido Petti, 20 Facundo Isa, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, 23 Juan Pablo Socino.

Injuries have really hit the Pumas behind the scrum: Hernandez, Imhoff and Tuculet all out. I'm especially gutted because the first two are in my fantasy team and I've only got a couple of transfers left!

I'd love to see them win though, because they've added so much to the tournament and I love the style of rugby they play. I wish Wales had the same ambition in attack.

The thing I've always noticed about Argentina is that while they're renowned for strong forward play, their back 3 always have excellent footwork - and can pretty much run in tries from anywhere.

Victor Matfield playing his last match. Legend is oft over used but Matfield is a legend. Some great memories from him, hope he see's SA home tonight.

Schalk Burger is the legend for me.

Going to the yellow card in the first instance has taken the contest out of far to many games in this World Cup.

What was it for? It didn't seem very clear.

Consistency though - take a player out within 10m from a quick tap and you'll get a yellow

Not retiring ten metres, but to have one team one man down after three minutes, is just an exercise in Rugby trying to shoot ityself in the foot.

Where's this SA team been? Quick ball, pace, chip n chases?

I thought it was, but it didn't really affect play.

Lacey is ruining this with unnecessary calls. That penalty was completely pointless. How has a referee this poor been given such a high profile game? He can't be considered a top five referee surely?

Agree, he didn't bring him down so a warning would've done tbf. Given the context of the match. Lacey however...

Breadvan wrote:Where's this SA team been? Quick ball, pace, chip n chases?

Get the feeling its what happens when the elements of survival and desperation is taken out of the game.

Can't give SA a penalty for that surely. Come on Lacey, keep off the whistle.

Habana is eager for that try.

If someone can sub the ref at half time this might break out into a really nice game in the second half.

Argentina look a bit flat up front. Sugar and caffeine to be passed round at half time.

4 tries butchered by SA now.

formerly known as Sam wrote:If someone can sub the ref at half time this might break out into a really nice game in the second half.

Argentina look a bit flat up front. Sugar and caffeine to be passed round at half time.

Why not an all in one pre-workout supplement...

Yeah give the whistle to Jacko. and lets see 40 minutes of rugby.

What idiots decided to give Lacey this game?

Argentina have been poor - peaked too early this tournament maybe? Fantastic in the group stages, blew Ireland away in the QF then struggled after that

Lackey is a very strange referee sees things Id don't and misses loads of stuff. Barely Pro12 level.

Why take habana off??

Greatest ad for binning these bronze playoffs, and god as an Irishman it pains me but Lacey is a fickung sh1te ref, and then we gave Clancy.....

Pollard has imploded