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Modern Era?

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Atila
hazharrison
ONETWOFOREVER
Hammersmith harrier
Herman Jaeger
catchweight
Hands Of Stone
Nico the gman
AdamT
3fingers
TRUSSMAN66
Qoxiivi
DuransHorse
Rowley
mobilemaster8
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Post by mobilemaster8 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:03 am

Great fight between Cotto and Canelo with Canelo (in my eye eyes) winning handily by a few rounds...

What has grabbed my attention is his post fight interview. When questioned on a GGG fight, he responds with:

"Gennady is my friend but if he wants to fight, it will be a weight of my choosing. I'm the champion in this division and I won't bow to his demands"

Errrrrr that's correct Canelo. Your the champion in the 160 lbs division which is where fighters can weight up too and including 160 lbs.

Is this the modern Era now? Are catchweights now the only way of obtaining superfights?

Pacman vs Cotto
Mayweather vs Alvarez
Cotto vs Canelo


Just to name a couple but we all know there have been many many many more.

Belts should be disregarded now as should weight divisions. If you want to fight, come in at a specific weight and I'll meet you there.

For me it takes boxing away. I don't want to see someone class get weight drained and have to sacrifice to fight for a title. It's beyond me.

The best should fight the best, at the most comfort weight.

If you won't let people fight for the title and the weight limit, then what's the point?

Are people scared?

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Post by Rowley Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:14 am

Is beyond ridiculous, Canelo is the world middleweight champion. Golovkin is far and away both his most qualified challenger and the fight the public want to see. As such the fight should be made, at middleweight. The silly thing is catchweights seem to become more prevalent the less we should need them. You could understand it in the era of 8 divisions where the gap between two divisions could be a stone or so, but when the gap between the average division is no more than half a stone the idea you need to split the difference is ridiculous, you could always rely on tactics and ability to negate any gap in weight.

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Post by DuransHorse Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:29 am

Yeah, that statement is b0ll0x. Very annoying. If there was no belt or title and GGG just wanted to fight him it would be passable to say 'on my terms'... but he states he's the champion at middleweight. That's THE 160 champion. Obviously he doesn't have faith he can fight and defend it at 160 if he makes that kind of statement. Very dissapointing. Thank god heavies don't do this.

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Post by Qoxiivi Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:49 am

Utterly pathetic. In regulatory terms, boxing is a ****ing farce.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:53 am

Alvarez is WBC and Mexican.

He can do what he wants.

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Post by 3fingers Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:09 am

If canelo is GGG's mandatory but won't fight him at middleweight then he should be stripped of the title. There is no other way at looking at this.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:21 am

He's Mexican...

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Post by AdamT Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:32 am

I hate catch weight. If you can't fight at one of the thousand divisions, f..k off!

Ok in a serious note this fight needs to happen sometime next year. I have yet to see last nights fight, but heard that Canelo fought well.

I picked Cotto and was wrong. Good job Alveraz

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:48 am

I like catchweight if it means we can get good fights..

I found the Terry Norris v Meldrick taylor matchup intriguing...........Taylor refused to fight If Norris came in over 150.....Four pounds off jr middle...

No one moaned back then.....

People only moan If they don't like the fighter that's gaining an advantage...

In this case it won't be a "big talking" Rusky that's a "real fighter"... who hasn't fought diddly squat in five and a half years..

Bring him in at 155...insist on drug testing him every day (we've just seen the athletics scandal).... make sure he's completely dehydrated and put him in hospital.......


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Post by Rowley Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:make sure he's completely dehydrated and put him in hospital.......

Classy Truss, even by the standards on here, really classy.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:12 pm

Rowley wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:make sure he's completely dehydrated and put him in hospital.......

Classy Truss, even by the standards on here, really classy.

Thanks... Cool

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Post by Nico the gman Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:19 pm

Blame the boxing organisations, they should grow a pair and stipulate the Middleweight title is for 160lbs,not a title holders preference to gain an advantage.

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Post by Hands Of Stone Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:23 pm

Well the belts are worth absolutely nil so I guess the weight divisions don't really, for the sake of getting the fights we want i'm for it but only when there is real demand for it

Either way Canelo is a tough test for GGG but he can't win that fight and Canelo probably knows that. He beat cotto last night because he was landing the heavier blows, and against GGG he wont be the puncher and doesn't have the workrate to beat GGG on points which is what he'll need to do as Lemieux didn't even make GGG blink and Stevens barely made a dent, 2 big true middleweight punchers, so Canelo won't be dropping him.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:24 pm

Sorry Nico... blame the principle-less mugs that moan about these fights and then buy them....

You know like the wallies that moan about Hearn PPV-ing crap cards and then buy Bellew v Cleverly...

Alpphabet boys priority is to look after their bank accounts and "their" fighters".........No problem all this for them !!!


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Post by catchweight Sun 22 Nov 2015, 1:14 pm

Need to get rid of the day before weigh ins. The emphasis should be on the divisional limits and what fighters actually weigh in the ring. The whole weight class system is muddied beyond comprehension. Alvarez essentially wont fight top opponents his own size which is a real shame.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 1:19 pm

I like it the way it is.........Dehydration affects the levels of liquid around the brain. Which affects a boxers ability to both take a punch and recover from it..

Boxers ned adequate rehydration time..

Although I would agree to a one off change......GGG-Canelo can weigh in at 155 on the day of the fight !! Cool

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Post by Herman Jaeger Sun 22 Nov 2015, 2:14 pm

I agree boxers need adequate rehydration-time which is why I much prefer the idea of rehydration limits(say 10lbs) rather than same-day weigh-ins which is dangerous for the brain as Truss says.

Then the strategy used by some fighters such as Canelo and Chavez Jr. who rely on a weight advantage to bully their opponent will hopefully become a thing of the past. 

Hopefully Golovkin won't flinch and Canelo will be stripped. He must allow his mandated opponent to fight at 160lbs or he gets stripped right?

You can only make catchweight demands to someone in a weight above not the same division or below anyway surely.

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Post by catchweight Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:26 pm

Boxers need to just need fight in a suitable weight class. There are plenty to choose from. No need to dehydrate. Same day weigh ins encourage less dehydrating and boxers fighting in more suitable weight classes. Even 10lbs is a ridiculous amount to be rehydrating. It means you arent in the right weight class.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:34 pm

catchweight wrote:Boxers need to just need fight in a suitable weight class. There are plenty to choose from. No need to dehydrate.

Surprised no boxer ever thought of that !!.... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Boxers want an edge.....If they can squeeze down a weight they will.....Because If they stay at a suitable weight then chances are they are fighting someone bigger that has squeezed down....who may not suffer from the effects of dehydration..

Sport in most cases is about small margins.......All bodies are different..... some people rehydrate quicker than others..

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Post by catchweight Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:39 pm

They had same day weigh ins before in boxing. It was fine. The change had a sound theoretical logic to it but now clearly doesnt work in practice. Go back to same day weigh ins please and lets have some proper weight classes.

If some boxers want to continuing dehydrating themselves down then thats their problem. You dont increase the speed limit to stop people speeding.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:47 pm

Yeah 10lbs is too much for me too. Second wegh in one hour before fight and should have to weigh less than the division above by a pound.

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Post by catchweight Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:52 pm

An interesting observation would made recently in relation to possible fights for Rigondeaux. A fight between him and Roman Gonzales would suggested hypothetically. They are seperated by 4 weight classes but actually weigh the same amount when they fight in the ring going off their most recent fights. Ridiculous.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Sun 22 Nov 2015, 4:58 pm

Obviously though, fans wouldn't be very happy if a fight was cancelled an hour before start time so that idea wouldn't work!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:21 pm

The irony is that the same people now complaining about Canelo's size are the same who wax lyrical about Cotto the 140lber when he relied heavily on his size back then.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:24 pm

Great fight???

Canelo looked like the bigger bully to me Cotto had absolutely nothing behind his pitta patta shots.

As for Canelo's remarks well he is the cash baby and the won't be risked right away. Fans can always put an end to this by not turning up or paying for these joke catch weight fights.

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Post by hazharrison Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:29 pm

Wasn't a great fight - pretty good watch this morning. Cotto was the better boxer, Canelo was just too big and strong (size difference was surprising).

Fighters should weigh in on the day of the fight (no evidence to suggest day before weigh ins have improved safety). Fights between evenly matched fighters (physically) are preferable to this type of thing.

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Post by Atila Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:49 pm

catchweight wrote:They had same day weigh ins before in boxing. It was fine. The change had a sound theoretical logic to it but now clearly doesnt work in practice. Go back to same day weigh ins please and lets have some proper weight classes.

If some boxers want to continuing dehydrating themselves down then thats their problem. You dont increase the speed limit to stop people speeding.
Agree with this post. OK

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 6:57 pm

Duk koo kim isn't around to agree with it..

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Post by Atila Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:13 pm

The weigh in rules weren't changed due to the Duk Koo Kim tragedy, the length of title fights were changed instead from 15 to 12.

The weigh in rule changes came in years after the Kim tragedy. So far later that so far you're the only one that I've ever heard of linking the two.

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Post by Lance Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:29 pm

Lara will fight GGG at MW limit but GGG won't fight him until he has several victories at MW. Canelo has never fought at the MW limit so seems GGGhas double standards same as everyone else

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Post by Herman Jaeger Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:10 pm

I'm Lance wrote:Lara will fight GGG at MW limit but GGG won't fight him until he has several victories at MW. Canelo has never fought at the MW limit so seems GGGhas double standards same as everyone else

Double standards?

Why?

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:51 pm

Lance wrote:Lara will fight GGG at MW limit but GGG won't fight him until he has several victories at MW. Canelo has never fought at the MW limit so seems GGGhas double standards same as everyone else

Are you suggesting that Golovkin wouldn't wipe the floor with Lara?

Man GGG is seriously under rated on these forums.....

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Post by jimdig Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:05 am

I generally have a problem with catchweights, but seeing as canelo is willing to fight GGG, and GGG has been saying he can fight 154 to 167, then I really don't have a problem with this. Cotto dumped the belt, canelo should dump it too. ideally the fight happens at 160, but as long as we are getting the fight, who cares?

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:32 am

Surely GGG said he'd only fight at 54 for Mayweather and no one but Mayweather?

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Post by Atila Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:37 am

I'm sure that if the pay day was big enough he would fight at 154lb, doesn't mean he wouldn't be weakened though. I don't know about others, but I like to see fights were both fighters are at 100% of their powers so no excuses can be made by the losers afterwards.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:55 am

Atila wrote:I'm sure that if the pay day was big enough he would fight at 154lb, doesn't mean he wouldn't be weakened though. I don't know about others, but I like to see fights were both fighters are at 100% of their powers so no excuses can be made by the losers afterwards.

Exactly. All these matches wind up with a caveat against the result. Sucks.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:36 am

Lance wrote:Lara will fight GGG at MW limit but GGG won't fight him until he has several victories at MW. Canelo has never fought at the MW limit so seems GGGhas double standards same as everyone else

This old rubbish again.... Rolling Eyes

It's actually impressive how much you can troll out the same BS time and time again after other posters show up you BS for what it is......

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:41 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Surely GGG said he'd only fight at 54 for Mayweather and no one but Mayweather?

Reckon now PBF has gone Canelo is probably the best payday out there in world boxing?? Maybe Manny but can't think of anyone else. None of the other 'major' champs are big enough draws.

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:43 am

Lance you claim I know f all (you are most likely right) but why keep up with this bull crap of Lara?

Lara couldn't draw flies and if GGG were to fight him, it will end only one way. Heavy Knock out!!

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:19 am

AdamT wrote:Lance you claim I know f all (you are most likely right) but why keep up with this bull crap of Lara?

Lara couldn't draw flies and if GGG were to fight him, it will end only one way. Heavy Knock out!!

Probably with both earning career lows and no live tv coverage! Wink

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:22 am

De la Hoya talks a good game and says he is all for the fans. Well judging by the size of Canelo the other night, he should bloody well fight at 160.

I would like to see Oscar put his money were his mouth is and make Canelo v GGG. It would be a good fight and I think Canelo would do ok in it.

Wouldn't pick him to win, but you never know for sure. GGG is not the youngest and he is a come forward fighter. Might play into Canelo's hands.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:35 am

Canelo doesn't like having to go look for a fighter, so GGG potentially helps him out there, but GGG stalks his opposition and has excellent ring generalship which may negate this Canelo 'advantage'.

Canelo is big though, easily GGG's ring size, and has that Mexican chin so I don't see an early finish - could be quite a tear-up.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:36 am

Canelo is WBC champion he can do what he wants...........

He's the favorite son now....

Boxing is full of ways of stuffing opposition..........

Turning the heating up in the building when you're in with a runner.......

Installing a bigger ring If your man is the matador and vice versa.....

Giving difficult opposition late notice.......

Insisting on non punchers gloves If your opponent is a banger......(Used to be Cleto reyes for punchers fighting at home...Everlast for punchers fighting away)...

Fixing the scales in some cases when you're in against a guy who is struggling to make weight......

Making high strung fighters re-wrap their hands before the fight (Spinks v Tyson)..

If you can come in bigger then do it.....Being bigger didn't help Canelo against Mayweather...Or Barkley against Duran....

Cotto lost because he wasn't good enough on the night..

Boxing has never been and never will be a level playing field...


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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:38 am

It is a fight that needs to happen. I would have no problem paying for it, especially if there was a decent undercard.

I know we most likely wouldn't have it on ppv, but I would pay it a lot quicker than some of the shows we are fed over here.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:46 am

I'll say one thing: if you don't knock Canelo out you're in for a rude awakening on the cards.

Canelo getting a draw against Mayweather was ridiculous. The scores against Cotto equally so.

I don't believe messing around with weight is akin to requesting a bigger ring. Remember Gatti almost decapitating Joey Gamache after gaining 19 lbs.? Avarez is gaining something similar - he's a light heavyweight in old money.

I found myself appreciating Mayweather's performance more and more watching Cotto struggling to repel the Mexican (but then remembered he'd cut him to 152 lbs - must have killed Alvarez making that).

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:49 am

It was a masterclass form Mayweather. Did the weight effect Canelo?? Yeah probably did slightly, same as when Pac fought Cotto.

However Alvarez could not get near Floyd and had serious trouble with the style. Even if the fight had of been 154, I really doubt Canelo could of done anything more.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:54 am

hazharrison wrote:

I found myself appreciating Mayweather's performance more and more watching Cotto struggling to repel the Mexican (but then remembered he'd cut him to 152 lbs - must have killed Alvarez making that).

Just think of the schooling Floyd would have got had Canelo come in at 154........


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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:55 am

AdamT wrote:It was a masterclass form Mayweather. Did the weight effect Canelo?? Yeah probably did slightly, same as when Pac fought Cotto.

However Alvarez could not get near Floyd and had serious trouble with the style. Even if the fight had of been 154, I really doubt Canelo could of done anything more.

I agree - which is a shame they stipulated 152 (another example of catch weights giving the beaten fighter an excuse).

Obviously Mayweather gamed Alvarez (when they publicly admitted he'd go down to 150 for the fight) so you can see it from his POV but still...

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:59 am

I think the 152 was another way for Floyd to dictate. He was mind f....g Canelo.

Canelo was extra focused making sure he made weight and Floyd knew he had no such problem.

It should of been 154, however still a very good win for Floyd.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:07 am

Mayweather was luckier than Cotto because he had the ability to intimidate Canelo and Manny....Not because he's a monster or anything but because he'd been unbeaten for so long....

It meant they respected him more and didn't take liberties.........

A lot of fights are won before the first bell...

However much you can tell Manny, Canelo or anyone else they can win against Mayweather and do this do that...at the back of their minds is the thought that this guy must be special...

It's the same with all unbeaten great fighters.....

Cotto didn't have that aura......Canelo and Manny both fancied the job against him..

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