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Modern Era?

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Atila
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Post by mobilemaster8 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Great fight between Cotto and Canelo with Canelo (in my eye eyes) winning handily by a few rounds...

What has grabbed my attention is his post fight interview. When questioned on a GGG fight, he responds with:

"Gennady is my friend but if he wants to fight, it will be a weight of my choosing. I'm the champion in this division and I won't bow to his demands"

Errrrrr that's correct Canelo. Your the champion in the 160 lbs division which is where fighters can weight up too and including 160 lbs.

Is this the modern Era now? Are catchweights now the only way of obtaining superfights?

Pacman vs Cotto
Mayweather vs Alvarez
Cotto vs Canelo


Just to name a couple but we all know there have been many many many more.

Belts should be disregarded now as should weight divisions. If you want to fight, come in at a specific weight and I'll meet you there.

For me it takes boxing away. I don't want to see someone class get weight drained and have to sacrifice to fight for a title. It's beyond me.

The best should fight the best, at the most comfort weight.

If you won't let people fight for the title and the weight limit, then what's the point?

Are people scared?

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:12 am

YouYouTopHat24/7 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Surely GGG said he'd only fight at 54 for Mayweather and no one but Mayweather?

Reckon now PBF has gone Canelo is probably the best payday out there in world boxing?? Maybe Manny but can't think of anyone else.  None of the other 'major' champs are big enough draws.

Canelo probably best payday for Golovkin now so are you saying Toppy that you think GGG will agree to catchweight for the payday? 

You never know but I think they're more interested in the belts for now. Their agenda is and always has been to unify and become undisputed middleweight champion of the world. Become undisputed in one of boxing's blue riband divisions and the potential is there to become mega-earners in their own right.

I think Oscar is genuinely worried for the future of his company since the exodus of most of his stable to Haymon and having just seen losses for Matthysse and Lemieux. Having a star fighter will attract fighters to his stable for many years to come. Imagine if GGG not only beat Canelo but ruined him? He does seem adamant though in recent interviews that GBP are all about giving the fans the fights they want to see and that the ethos of his company has been and always be to match his fighters against the best. So I've got a lot more faith in this fight happening next up than I think many others do. I've always believed Oscar means what he says.

If Canelo does vacate then Oscar from now on will be marketing a fighter who wouldn't take on his biggest challenge and the fight all of boxing wants to see. Fight and beat GGG and Oscar can just sit back and watch- Canelo wouldn't need any promoting. And GGG's is a style that will suit Canelo you've got to remember.

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:21 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mayweather was luckier than Cotto because he had the ability to intimidate Canelo and Manny....Not because he's a monster or anything but because he'd been unbeaten for so long....

It meant they respected him more and didn't take liberties.........

A lot of fights are won before the first bell...

However much you can tell Manny, Canelo or anyone else they can win against Mayweather and do this do that...at the back of their minds is the thought that this guy must be special...

It's the same with all unbeaten great fighters.....

Cotto didn't have that aura......Canelo and Manny both fancied the job against him..

Good post and agree about prefight mind games. Loads of fights are won before the first bell. It is a very mental sport. I guess this happens in other sports as well.

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:23 am

AdamT wrote:It was a masterclass form Mayweather. Did the weight effect Canelo?? Yeah probably did slightly, same as when Pac fought Cotto.

However Alvarez could not get near Floyd and had serious trouble with the style. Even if the fight had of been 154, I really doubt Canelo could of done anything more.

I don't think the weight effected Canelo in repsect of his performance against Mayweather, he just fought the wrong fight, looked to outab & outbox Mayweather rather than make his physical attributes count, looked clueless, one paced & a one trick pony. Not the first to be outclassed by Mayweather mind you Wink

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:26 am

sohotnot wrote:
AdamT wrote:It was a masterclass form Mayweather. Did the weight effect Canelo?? Yeah probably did slightly, same as when Pac fought Cotto.

However Alvarez could not get near Floyd and had serious trouble with the style. Even if the fight had of been 154, I really doubt Canelo could of done anything more.

I don't think the weight effected Canelo in repsect of his performance against Mayweather, he just fought the wrong fight, looked to outab & outbox Mayweather rather than make his physical attributes count, looked clueless, one paced & a one trick pony. Not the first to be outclassed by Mayweather mind you Wink

Spot on mate. I agree. Alvarez boxed too much and he should of used his natural size and power to stalk Floyd, instead of fighting his usual fight. Perhaps he held too much respect for Mayweather. Truss mentions a lot in the post above which i agree with.

Whats the old darts saying? Is it play the board and not the man.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:40 am

If he was physically compromised, perhaps he couldn't use his natural size in his usual way?

Floyd would have beaten him anyway but unless my eyes are playing up, Canelo looked bigger than he ever has on Saturday? He was huge.

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:54 am

He looked bigger than many 168 fighters on Saturday. Least a lot chunkier. I guess he isn't as tall as many 168 fighters, but he looked BIG!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:30 pm

AdamT wrote:
It should of been 154, however still a very good win for Floyd.

Said a while back, there's every potential Canelo will end up going down as Floyd's greatest ever win (given his CV tends to lack that at present, just lots and lots or good-very good wins), even surpassing Manny given all the baggage that went with that fight.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:40 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
YouYouTopHat24/7 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Surely GGG said he'd only fight at 54 for Mayweather and no one but Mayweather?

Reckon now PBF has gone Canelo is probably the best payday out there in world boxing?? Maybe Manny but can't think of anyone else.  None of the other 'major' champs are big enough draws.

Canelo probably best payday for Golovkin now so are you saying Toppy that you think GGG will agree to catchweight for the payday? 


No, but he should. Said he'd do it for Floyd, which was obviously for the $$$, so now his next best pay day is Canelo - why not? Or was his full of poopie re Floyd??

Canelo's MW title reign will end up as big a joke as Cotto's, but that doesn't help GGG in anyway.....

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 3:41 pm

Yes Tophat, the Canelo win for me is right up there.

It is definitely his best win since SF/LW days.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 3:43 pm

Think it's in a group of 5 with Manny, Castillo, Corrales and maybe either ODLH or Hatton.

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Post by AdamT Mon 23 Nov 2015, 3:48 pm

I think Corrales is top 2.

Funny enough even though Oscar was seen as a part time fighter, he was on a great run of form. He blasted Mayorga easily and he was big at the weight.

The Oscar win was good and to be fair Hatton was no mug, and also undefeated at the time.

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Post by Lance Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:10 pm

The GGG story keeps shifting. One minute he will fight anyone from LMW to SMW, then when fights seem available he won't.

One minute he has to fight Monroe because nobody else is available, next minute he is in a position to turn down fights against established names like Ward and Lara.

Like it or not Lara has a better list of opponents than GGG does, and would give us a chance to see GGG in with a different type of fighter.

Did Monroe or Ishida sell tickets?


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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:12 pm

ODLH was a little drained, but nothing like the ghost that fought Manny, and Hatton was never at his best at 147 but was still unbeaten, as you say, and with a pretty decent record and had a style that should have presented a decent challenge - Floyd's performance in response was near perfect.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:19 pm

Lance wrote:The GGG story keeps shifting. One minute he will fight anyone from LMW to SMW, then when fights seem available he won't.

One minute he has to fight Monroe because nobody else is available, next minute he is in a position to turn down fights against established names like Ward and Lara.

Like it or not Lara has a better list of opponents than GGG does, and would give us a chance to see GGG in with a different type of fighter.

Did Monroe or Ishida sell tickets?


You really are full of it. When has Ward offered him a fight? Ward hasn't fought for the last 2 years and is now a LHW.

And the 'one minute' he said he'll fight at LMW was specifically regarding Floyd. He's never said he's a LMW, was he has been clear on is unifying 160.

And why would/should he move to 154 to Lara? It's only been just recently that Lara has suggested challenging THE CHAMPION at 160, so hardly huge scope for GGG 'turning him down'.

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Post by Lance Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:24 pm

Lara been calling for the fight for two years. Check your facts.and maybea grow up a bit while you at it. I don't understand why you are so confrontational? You must be a very sad little guy to act as you do online

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:26 pm

Golovkin hasn't ever been offered a bout with Ward or Lara. If he has I'd be interested to read about it (anyone have a link)?

Does anyone genuinely believe GGG wouldn't wipe the floor with Lara? We really are stretching if we're attempting to label Golovkin "a ducker".

Golovkin is gathering belts at 160. He wants to fight Alvarez - that's his focus.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:28 pm

Ward...Stevo...Lara...Canelo...Cotto...Wlad.. all scared of GGG.

All cowards..


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Post by Lance Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:31 pm

I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ward...Stevo...Lara...Canelo...Cotto...Wlad.. all scared of GGG.

All cowards..


Remind me which middleweight belts Ward, Steveson, Lara and Klitschko hold?

Look, we understand your jingoism precludes you from admiring anyone from the Eastern Bloc but these posts are nonsensical.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:33 pm

Yes they do....One idiot thinks Murray is better than Manny..

No prizes for guessing

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:35 pm

I think any post ignoring the fact he's fought nobody is nonsensical, he seems to be the only boxer in the world who gets away with fighting crap.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:36 pm

Lance wrote:I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

Probably not but Lara hasn't ever fought at middleweight. Who's to say he'd make the jump? Maybe if he moved up and tried to get in the mix he'd have a better chance of a fight?


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Post by Lance Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:44 pm

I like your logic Haz. Got no problem with a guy sticking up for his favourite no matter what the evidence portrays and at least you do it in a friendly manner.

I think Hopkins beat Calzaghe and Taylor twice. Some people say I'm biased too

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:10 pm

Lance wrote:Lara been calling for the fight for two years. Check your facts.and maybea grow up a bit while you at it. I don't understand why you are so confrontational? You must be a very sad little guy to act as you do online

You mean the two years he's been fighting in a different weight division?? And wasn't even a champ in that division until 1 year ago? And has never offered a monetary incentive a an actual world champion to move divisions to come fight him? Whilst never suggesting he'd come up to meet an ACTUAL world champ in the championship division?

Really, think before you speak, it'd help you a lot.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:12 pm

Lara isn't the only one who won't move up..

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:13 pm

Lance wrote:I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

Monroe and Ishida were in the MW division. Lara in LMW.

What part of this aren't you getting?

Next are you going to suggest Manny is ducking Andre Ward......???!!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:53 pm

What does that matter Toppy, we're meant to believe that Ward and Froch want/wanted nothing to do with GGG but that can't matter as they fought in different divisions.

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:01 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Lance wrote:I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

Probably not but Lara hasn't ever fought at middleweight. Who's to say he'd make the jump? Maybe if he moved up and tried to get in the mix he'd have a better chance of a fight?


That's it really isn't it, Khan gets slated for just sitting back and making noise about a Floyd fight yet this seems what Lara is doing. Boxing politics, promoters and broadcastors tend to be the real problem hear not the boxers. You don't take up boxing as a profession because you're scared to fight.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:05 pm

Lance wrote:I like your logic Haz. Got no problem with a guy sticking up for his favourite no matter what the evidence portrays and at least you do it in a friendly manner.

I think Hopkins beat Calzaghe and Taylor twice. Some people say I'm biased too

I'll entertain Calzaghe but Taylor out worked him.

I'm a Golovkin fan but that doesn't preclude me from criticising him (where warranted). Golovkin doesn't choose his opponents - HBO provide a short list to Loeffler et al. Does the network pick action fighters that they feel will make for an entertaining win? Almost certainly. It does nothing for viewing stats to watch Golovkin chase someone like Lara out of the ring.

One thing is guaranteed: if you win a middleweight belt he'll fight you.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:08 pm

He'll fight you if it makes him look good then basically Haz, if however you have any sort of defence he, his team and HBO will steer clear.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:09 pm

sohotnot wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Lance wrote:I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

Probably not but Lara hasn't ever fought at middleweight. Who's to say he'd make the jump? Maybe if he moved up and tried to get in the mix he'd have a better chance of a fight?


That's it really isn't it, Khan gets slated for just sitting back and making noise about a Floyd fight yet this seems what Lara is doing. Boxing politics, promoters and broadcastors tend to be the real problem hear not the boxers. You don't take up boxing as a profession  because you're scared to fight.

Spot on. That kinda ruins the narrative for these kids, though. They latch onto a fighter and believe they're going into bat for them on the Internet Laugh

Take Trussman. He didn't even watch the Cotto fight yet will sing Alvarez's praises in a bid to boost Mayweather's standing! Convoluted? Crazy? A bit weird? You got it.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:10 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He'll fight you if it makes him look good then basically Haz, if however you have any sort of defence he, his team and HBO will steer clear.

HBO provide the list - Golovkin has no say in this. Once he's dealt with Canelo, he'll fight anyone deemed a viable challenger. Patience, patience.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:13 pm

We've been waiting many years to see him actually fight someone so patience is wearing very thin, it's ok for GGG to do as HBO say but no one else in the world can use such an excuse and get away with it.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:15 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:We've been waiting many years to see him actually fight someone so patience is wearing very thin, it's ok for GGG to do as HBO say but no one else in the world can use such an excuse and get away with it.

Who else have HBO promoted in this way? Any examples?

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:46 pm

hazharrison wrote:
sohotnot wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Lance wrote:I honestly can't believe anyone can look at Golovkin record and not notice he is selective in the style of opponents he likes.

I don't think he would wipe the floor with Lara, nobody ever has. And anyone really believe Ishida and Monroe were better opponents??

Probably not but Lara hasn't ever fought at middleweight. Who's to say he'd make the jump? Maybe if he moved up and tried to get in the mix he'd have a better chance of a fight?


That's it really isn't it, Khan gets slated for just sitting back and making noise about a Floyd fight yet this seems what Lara is doing. Boxing politics, promoters and broadcastors tend to be the real problem hear not the boxers. You don't take up boxing as a profession  because you're scared to fight.

Spot on. That kinda ruins the narrative for these kids, though. They latch onto a fighter and believe they're going into bat for them on the Internet Laugh

Take Trussman. He didn't even watch the Cotto fight yet will sing Alvarez's praises in a bid to boost Mayweather's standing! Convoluted? Crazy? A bit weird? You got it.

It does puzzle me when people take it all so personal as though they are the fighter themselves or related to them. I for one am a fan of Alvarez, Fight with Kirkland a potential fight of the year for me but was not impressed with him at the weekend in the slightest, watched the fight as a neutral didn't agree with the scoring but that's just my opinion and I don't care what people think of my opinion. Boxing aint football where its cut and dry who's the best.

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:55 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:We've been waiting many years to see him actually fight someone so patience is wearing very thin, it's ok for GGG to do as HBO say but no one else in the world can use such an excuse and get away with it.

They can all get away with it in my opinion, boxing politics suck big time, governing/sanction bodies are a joke, Bob 'f*** the fans' Arum & his in house promotions say it all. Boxing aint football where you have a league and you have to fight the top 20 guys. Boxers get no say in who they fight unless the powers that be believe its the best fight financially and the chances of defeat or shortening their cash cows career is low. no top level fighter is gonna be in war after war after war.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 24 Nov 2015, 9:22 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:What does that matter Toppy, we're meant to believe that Ward and Froch want/wanted nothing to do with GGG but that can't matter as they fought in different divisions.

Why would they? Be preposterous to suggest they lost a whole 8 lbs to move down and they were the champions in their division - it should have been for GGG to move up. I've never suggested either 'ducked' GGG but equally I don't see any reason why he (for a relatively small MW) should have leaped 8lbs to meet them when he was champ in his own division.

Lara is a LMW who has never shown any inclination to fight at MW and only just now has shown any amibition (if you can call it that) to fight GGG. He's also only recently won a strap - why the hell should the champ in the division above bow to him?

If a champ wants to make concessions for money (e.g. Floyd or, as I think he should, Canelo) then that's fine - but the nobody doesn't get to call the shots!!

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