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Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country

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Post by IanBru Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:49 pm

Cheers Jim, what a day! Highlights of the Killie experience?
1) Dancer's outside-of-the-boot clearance kick after a stolen line out in the first half, ballooning over the Racing outside backs and plonking down with a satisfied 'thonk' (3G pitch, don't you know) a bit short of the Racing 5m line;
2) Dancer delaying the pass to Hoggy.
3) Dancer. ;
4) Hearing that the Rugby Park bar had run out of white wine (it was a quite pleasant Riesling), as Glasgow's lady supporters are a classy bunch;
5) Almost slipping on the urine-stained floor of the men's toilets as Glasgow's make supporters are... a classy bunch.

Lady Bru sends her very best.
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Post by Nematode Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:34 pm

I think the comments from most on here about Weir are a bit disappointing really.

He's a great signing for Edinburgh who, let's face it, are probably only able to attract signings at a level of the likes of Sale or Scarlets. He's won matches for Scotland with drop-goals/winning kicks that have prevented what would have been 2 wooden-spoons in consecutive years (and remember that winning penalty vs Argentina?).

He is exactly the type of 10 that fits AS's style of play and isn't coming over i) inexperienced ii) injured iii) after playing a full season iv) likely to move on after a few seasons. It allows Burleigh to play at 12 and means that Russell and Weir are getting plenty of starts at 10. He is also a pretty decent kicker (maybe needs a bit more practice) but means there isn't the drop from SHC to Cuthbert in kicking ability.








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Post by funnyExiledScot Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:23 pm

I like the optimism Tode. Let's hope you are right. I think he's rank average at best and seriously lucky to be paid to play rugby!

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Post by TJ Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:31 pm

FES - I think he is a player whos talents are in danger of being wasted. at 24 he has had more than three+ years of getting hardly any starts and has tried too hard to prove himself in the ten mins he gets. He needs regular game time and he will get that for Edinburgh as we don't have a 10. I bet you by next season he is playing much better


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Post by Eejit Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:32 pm

Go well Meatball. I'll miss shouting to run with the ball through the telly.

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Post by nickj Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:20 am

I think this is further evidence of some joined up thinking by the SRU and should be celebrated. Richie Gray joining Big Vern's team for the 6 n's and the formalisation of the SRU's ties with London Scottish being two recent examples of some fairly obvious and relatively easily made tweaks that could and have now been made for the good of the Scottish game.

While Wee Duc has his detractors, we have a limited pool of talent and we need to give that talent game time via our two pro-teams. Edinburgh and the SRU have given Tonks a chance at 10 and he hasn't taken it. We can't magic up another option a 10 for Scotland, so Dunc needed to move. It was crazy to have him and Finn in the same squad and could and possibly should have been made earlier.

Like many posters, I prefer Burleigh at 12 and now Scott's off, he will hopefully only be used at 12 and as an emergency 10. Kinghorn's development will hopefully also continue unabated at 15 and as Dunc's back-up.

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Post by George Carlin Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:22 pm

Has it actually been confirmed that young Matthew Douze Scott is off?
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Post by RDW Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:24 pm

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/16/01/16/matt-scott

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/news/12158.php#.VqYTxvntmqI

thumbsup

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Post by BigGee Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:27 pm

nickj wrote:I think this is further evidence of some joined up thinking by the SRU and should be celebrated. Richie Gray joining Big Vern's team for the 6 n's and the formalisation of the SRU's ties with London Scottish being two recent examples of some fairly obvious and relatively easily made tweaks that could and have now been made for the good of the Scottish game.

While Wee Duc has his detractors, we have a limited pool of talent and we need to give that talent game time via our two pro-teams. Edinburgh and the SRU have given Tonks a chance at 10 and he hasn't taken it. We can't magic up another option a 10 for Scotland, so Dunc needed to move. It was crazy to have him and Finn in the same squad and could and possibly should have been made earlier.

Like many posters, I prefer Burleigh at 12 and now Scott's off, he will hopefully only be used at 12 and as an emergency 10. Kinghorn's development will hopefully also continue unabated at 15 and as Dunc's back-up.

Completely agree with this, The much maligned SRU have acutally made some pretty good calls lately. Lets hope the next one is a synthetic pitch for Glasgow!

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Post by MacKnocked-on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Good to see Junior has been selected for the Scotland 7s this weekend in NZ, making his debut in a Scotland representative team.
Also Nick Grigg as well, don't know much about him but I think he's on the fringes of the Glasgow squad, anyone know if he's any good?

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Post by RDW Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:57 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Good to see Junior has been selected for the Scotland 7s this weekend in NZ, making his debut in a Scotland representative team.
Also Nick Grigg as well, don't know much about him but I think he's on the fringes of the Glasgow squad, anyone know if he's any good?

According to his profile he's classed as a 'hard running centre' but is only 5ft 9 and 89kg!

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Post by George Carlin Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:00 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Good to see Junior has been selected for the Scotland 7s this weekend in NZ, making his debut in a Scotland representative team.
Also Nick Grigg as well, don't know much about him but I think he's on the fringes of the Glasgow squad, anyone know if he's any good?

According to his profile he's classed as a 'hard running centre' but is only 5ft 9 and 89kg!
Hmm. I suspect that the dump I took this morning was bigger than that. chin
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:15 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Good to see Junior has been selected for the Scotland 7s this weekend in NZ, making his debut in a Scotland representative team.
Also Nick Grigg as well, don't know much about him but I think he's on the fringes of the Glasgow squad, anyone know if he's any good?

According to his profile he's classed as a 'hard running centre' but is only 5ft 9 and 89kg!

Maybe they meant "finds running hard centre", like Morrison.....

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Post by MacKnocked-on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:00 pm

Found this on YouTube, looks like school level matches but pretty elusive player by the looks of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ltNYsPQRM

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Post by Eejit Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:30 pm

BigGee wrote:
nickj wrote:I think this is further evidence of some joined up thinking by the SRU and should be celebrated. Richie Gray joining Big Vern's team for the 6 n's and the formalisation of the SRU's ties with London Scottish being two recent examples of some fairly obvious and relatively easily made tweaks that could and have now been made for the good of the Scottish game.

While Wee Duc has his detractors, we have a limited pool of talent and we need to give that talent game time via our two pro-teams. Edinburgh and the SRU have given Tonks a chance at 10 and he hasn't taken it. We can't magic up another option a 10 for Scotland, so Dunc needed to move. It was crazy to have him and Finn in the same squad and could and possibly should have been made earlier.

Like many posters, I prefer Burleigh at 12 and now Scott's off, he will hopefully only be used at 12 and as an emergency 10. Kinghorn's development will hopefully also continue unabated at 15 and as Dunc's back-up.

Completely agree with this, The much maligned SRU have acutally made some pretty good calls lately. Lets hope the next one is a synthetic pitch for Glasgow!

With this in mind do you think there is the appetite for a seperate London Scottish thread given Sean Lineen's (praise be unto him) recent appointment?

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Post by nickj Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:45 pm

Alex Grove has joined Scottish http://www.warriors.co.uk/news/9161.php#.VqZRG2bcvIU

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Post by madmaccas Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:04 pm

Eejit wrote:

With this in mind do you think there is the appetite for a seperate London Scottish thread given Sean Lineen's (praise be unto him) recent appointment?

There is from me! I'll happily provide match reports etc if anyone wants them.

Great news that the Grove brothers may be teaming up in the centres for Scottish.

Exciting times (and boy have we been made to wait!).

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Post by RDW Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:11 pm

Absolutely start up a London Scottish thread!

It is becoming more and more Scottish every week.

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Post by Eejit Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:21 pm

I must admit, I haven't been down the Athletic Ground all season and they're sitting 10th. I can only conclude that I'm a good luck charm and as such I promise to be there on Saturday to eat my body weight in Scotch pies.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:47 pm

I think they've won their last two or three games in the B&I Cup so hopefully their form is improving, the obvious priority for Lineen is to make sure they avoid relegation this season, if they did go down that would seriously set back the whole cooperation project.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:42 pm

nickj wrote:Alex Grove has joined Scottish http://www.warriors.co.uk/news/9161.php#.VqZRG2bcvIU

Good signing. Really solid player.

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Post by George Carlin Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:53 am

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Post by Hazel Sapling Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:53 am

Happy for Weir that he finally will get some games. Burleigh at 12 with Allen or Dean outside him should be alright in the centres though they are short a 12. Almost tempted to say Vernon or Lyle could take the trip as well if we are determined to get Scots players playing. Tonks should be put back at 15 if we are accepting he is not a 10 and put Kinghorn as the bench option. We are short of full backs at the moment. Hogg to Murchie, Bryce or Cuthbert is a big drop off!

Surprised that Alex Grove has struggled to get game time, but have not followed. Would have thought he was a starter at Worcester. Quality addition for London Scots. Is the SRU providing them money as well as the benefits in kind (physios, coaching)?

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Post by Prothero Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:50 pm

In a ideal word Paddy Kelly from le parc or frazer Lyle would be Matt Scotts replacement at Edinburgh.

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Post by RDW Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:01 pm

Prothero wrote:In a ideal word Paddy Kelly from le parc or frazer Lyle would be Matt Scotts replacement at Edinburgh.    

They would do as squad players but would be a significant step down in quality.

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Post by CraigS1874 Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:10 am

I know it's early but get the champagne out boys and girls!
John andress is leaving Edinburgh and it is reported that he signing for Munster to replace bj Botha. Apparently Connacht were also after him, can only think they scouted by looking up his Wikipedia account as he has been no use to us

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:18 am

I think it is a bit harsh to say no use - he has done an OK job generally without every embarrassing himself. He has sometimes got on the wrong side of the referee but he's also stood up well in a lot of games.

He's certainly no Jack Gilding!

Also, let's just wait and see who he is replaced with...

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Post by CraigS1874 Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:36 am

I like him as much as you like te rure ! Gilding was useless but it wasn't really his fault he got a contract in the first place, Andrees seems physically capable but just bloody stupid. He will get pinged in the first minute for boaring in then he will carry on doing it till the 80th minute. Just never listens

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:40 am

Don't get me wrong I'm not going to mourn his departure, I'm just very concious that good tightheads are in demand and we are well down the list in terms of financial clout and popularity - we could end up with worse. Andress was Pro 12 level at least and that's more than could be said for Pufisi at Glasgow.

You got any more gossip on the re-signings front? Nel??

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Post by MacKnocked-on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:04 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not going to mourn his departure, I'm just very concious that good tightheads are in demand and we are well down the list in terms of financial clout and popularity - we could end up with worse. Andress was Pro 12 level at least and that's more than could be said for Pufisi at Glasgow.

You got any more gossip on the re-signings front? Nel??

Perhaps Duncan Weir is being lined up for a positional shift?.. Wouldn't have to work on his physique too much.

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:04 pm

I've never been a fan of Andress, he was capable, but that's the best I can say about him.

Berghan seems to have ability so hopefully he can push on. Plus he's SQ. There is also Dell who can apparently play both sides of the scrum. He'll probably need to pick one side as playing both never really pans out long term, but he could also be an option, but i think both he and Solly view him at LH.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:26 pm

I'm not bothered about Andress leaving. For me he doesn't meet the quality threshold for an NSQ player and I'm keen to see more of Berghan stepping up. I hear what you say about the dearth of quality tightheads hanging about but I'm sure the scouting team have some ideas. I'd love to get Moray Low or Jon Welsh back, but alternatively the success of WP Nel has hopefully shown quality tightheads in the SH that Edinburgh is a decent route to international rugby.

As for Dell covering both sides, I don't think he has the muscle mass to play tighthead.

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Post by RDW Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:42 pm

Dell is no tighthead - he's an average sized looshead never mind TH!

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:55 pm

I'd agree with your point on Dell, but he did play TH in the 2012 under 20 SA championship winning team. So guess he has some pedigree there. But given he's not even in with a look in for us at TH I'm guessing Solly isn't seeing it.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:57 pm

At the moment the SRU need to sign 2 top quality tightheads and an old veteran tighthead to teach at Edinburgh. Hopefully Nel re-signing would cover Edinburgh no 1 but they need a no 2 or 3 tighthead with Berghan learning from the old head (who could coach Fagerson and Rae as well during their pathway to coaching). Cross would have been ideal, so good thing that relationship is solid....

Glasgow got screwed over by De Klerk after releasing Welsh. IF Welsh were keen to come back, I would be happy but practically who is around who fits the bill? Maybe if the Japanese tighthead Newcastle have signed as cover does well and fancies staying in the UK for a couple of years would do the trick.

Lot of scouting to be done by Lineen, Solomons and Toony this spring.


Last edited by Hazel Sapling on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Not paying attention during English class)

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Post by VinceWLB Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:15 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not going to mourn his departure, I'm just very concious that good tightheads are in demand and we are well down the list in terms of financial clout and popularity - we could end up with worse. Andress was Pro 12 level at least and that's more than could be said for Pufisi at Glasgow.

You got any more gossip on the re-signings front? Nel??

Perhaps Duncan Weir is being lined up for a positional shift?.. Wouldn't have to work on his physique too much.

Laugh

Without wanting to be harsh, i'm glad to see the back of Andress and hopefully Berghan gets picked from now on, enough time has been lost on Andress already. Berghan could be a Scottish (sort of) version of Kieran Brookes.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:25 pm

How do Edinburgh fans rate Mike Coman?
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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:26 pm

I think Edinburgh are well enough stocked at TH if Nel re-signs for us.  We have Nel as first choice, Berghan (25) as back up and a future option, with Dell (who is only 23) as a potential long term option.

Glasgow on the other hand only have a longer term option in Fagerson.  He's doing well, but it's a lot to ask of a lad who is only 20.

I can't see Welsh wanting to come back, by not offering him a contract they basically said they didn't think he was good enough, it's hardly going to make him keen to come back to Glasgow.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:44 pm

Edinburgh have Jack Cosgrove on loan at LS currently as well, don't know which side of the scrum he plays but he's been getting game time in the Championship.
As well as Fagerson, Glasgow have D'arcy Rae and Javen Sebastian as long term development options, again no idea if either are potentially any good or not but they've certainly got stand-out names.
And there's Nick Fraser out in Oz who has been spoken about before on these threads.

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:48 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Edinburgh have Jack Cosgrove on loan at LS currently as well, don't know which side of the scrum he plays but he's been getting game time in the Championship.
As well as Fagerson, Glasgow have D'arcy Rae and Javen Sebastian as long term development options, again no idea if either are potentially any good or not but they've certainly got stand-out names.
And there's Nick Fraser out in Oz who has been spoken about before on these threads.  

Cosgrove is a LH I believe.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:17 pm

Dell seems to be seen as a loosehead. In that scenario maybe D'Arcy would be better off moving to Edinburgh if they don't find a mentor figure, but Glasgow need a top level tighthead. Cusack, sadly, should probably get his CV up to date.


Ozzy3213 wrote:How do Edinburgh fans rate Mike Coman?

I support Edinburgh when Glasgow are not playing so I guess have seen him enough. He is solid, but unspectacular. Occasionally bone headed near his own try line (jumping out of line, arm tackle when a strong shoulder needed). Will carry above-averagely and tackle well enough (though not as dominant as his size suggests he could be), but not much more than that really. Can play as a lock against bad opposition in an emergency. I don't pay much attention to line-outs, but think he can jump (averagely).

He is a slightly above average squad player all told who does most things reasonably. Nice as a back-up and will do a job, but not sold on him as a starting 6 for an expansive team or one with Champions Cup ambitions.

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:38 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Dell seems to be seen as a loosehead. In that scenario maybe D'Arcy would be better off moving to Edinburgh if they don't find a mentor figure, but Glasgow need a top level tighthead. Cusack, sadly, should probably get his CV up to date.
.

I agree that Dell seems to be seen more as a loosehead, but if we were planning for the future then he would be better off trying to focus on being a TH.

By that I mean we have at loosehead, Dickinson, Sutherland, Sheils, with Cochrane coming through.
At tighthead we only have Nel & Berghan.

Dell is only 23 so has plenty of time to continue his development and could be a long term option at TH.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:40 pm

Coman has improved a fair bit since joining. He's a jack of all trades basically. Ok over the ball, ok at carrying, fairly quick, doesn't miss many tackles, ok workrate, ok in the lineout and does an ok job of handling the ref. Can't think of too many daft captaincy decisions either. I also have it on good authority that Mrs Coman is hot.

In terms of the Edinburgh 1st XV I'd probably leave him out, as I prefer Manu, Hardie and Du Preez as a back row, but his coverage of both 6/8 probably edges him ahead of Hamish Watson on the bench.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:43 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Dell seems to be seen as a loosehead. In that scenario maybe D'Arcy would be better off moving to Edinburgh if they don't find a mentor figure, but Glasgow need a top level tighthead. Cusack, sadly, should probably get his CV up to date.
.

I agree that Dell seems to be seen more as a loosehead, but if we were planning for the future then he would be better off trying to focus on being a TH.

By that I mean we have at loosehead, Dickinson, Sutherland, Sheils, with Cochrane coming through.
At tighthead we only have Nel & Berghan.

Dell is only 23 so has plenty of time to continue his development and could be a long term option at TH.

He's a hooker. Do you mean Cosgrove?

I don't think Dell can be an option at 3. He just doesn't have the frame. You can build muscle but you can build bigger shoulders and bones. He reminds me a bit of Al Dickinson back in the day when Scotland tried him at tighthead. It was a complete disaster. Just too small. Far better being that build on the loosehead side where technique can play a bigger role.

That all said, as I type this it occurs to me I know close to sod all about being an international tighthead!!

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:52 pm

Yeah sorry I meant Cosgrove. Trying to do more than half a thing at once has defeated me.

Dell is roughly the same height and weight as Fagerson, not sure on his frame, but from that perspective he is pretty close. Also as I said earlier he did play TH for the u20 south african team, so I guess he must have some qualities for a tight head.

He might never make it there, but from a purely selfish point of view I'd rather we took the risk. We don't need him as a loosehead, we have them coming out our ears, we need tightheads.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:41 pm

From a selfish point of view I agree. Getting an average tighthead or potentially better out of a good or potentially better loosehead is probably reasonable at the moment and Dell would not suffer financially.

He could turn into Jack Gilding or Kyle Trainor though. I would rather we played with 14 and had uncontested scrums.


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Post by des Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:22 am

So Comon's missus is moving to London very soon. This is happening before the end of this season. Doesn't make a huge amount of sense unless he's going to London Scottish.

Fes, this also means that the nursery is diddling parents out of a degree qualified member of staff. They previously used these highly qualified members of staff to justify fee increases.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:02 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:How do Edinburgh fans rate Mike Coman?

So Ozzy, a London Irish fan, cryptically asks for views on Mike Coman, and now we find out his mrs is off to London....

Nope, can't see any link there myself. Anyone got Poirot on speed dial?

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Post by des Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:53 am

I'd be surprised if it was LI as it would be a contract buyout and he's not really that sort of player. With LS he would still be on the SRU payroll. He's exactly the sort of player they could do with too.

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Post by RDW Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:54 am

Coman is a good solid pro and is obviously well respected by the coaches and players. He's also captained the team to 1872 victory 2 years in a row!

If he does leave then, like Andress, he's gonna need replaced so again the question has to be what kind of quality of replacement can we find. That would leave us with 2 top class 6/8's and 2 youngsters - that's just not enough.

I'd take Denton back!

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