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2023 (expanded) Rugby World Cup for South Africa

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Post by Rowanbi Sat 30 Jan 2016, 9:36 am

First topic message reminder :



The Rugby World Cup should return to South Africa in 2023, and the tournament should be expanded to 24 teams.

The other three candidates are Ireland, France and Italy. Were any of these successful, that would mean a third straight World Cup in the Northern Hemisphere, even though it is the Southern Hemisphere which overwhelmingly dominates.

It would also entail a return to the Six Nations for the fifth time in just ten tournaments, which is a little ridiculous for a sport with over one hundred affiliated member nations and self-professed global pretentions.

Should it go to Ireland, that would also mean, technically-speaking, that the United Kingdom were involved to some degree in hosting the event for the fifth time, given at least a few of the games would be staged north of the border.

France, meanwhile, hosted the World Cup as recently as eight years ago, and was also a co-host in 1991 and 1999.

That leaves Italy, to my mind the most attractive of the European bids, as it is a newcomer to the heavyweight ranks with a large number of registered players. However, World Rugby might want to go with a more established rugby playing nation for its 10th World Cup. Japan is already facing problems as it prepares to stage the 2019 event, with its new Olympic Stadium having now been removed from the venue list.

As for South Africa, it has the biggest and best rugby-purpose stadia in the world - with the possible exception of England, which has just hosted the event for the second time. It has the second largest number of registered players (also behind England), and it is the second most successful rugby playing nation after New Zealand.

By the time 2023 rolls around, an entire generation will have grown up since the last time the tournament was held in South Africa. This, even though the 1995 installment was one of the most successful and spectacular World Cups to date.

So if New Zealand, Austrlalia and England can all host it twice, and France can be involved as either host or co-host on three occasions, why on earth shouldn't it return to South Africa in 2023? Why does World Rugby appear to have lost faith in the republic, having overlooked it for both 2011 and 2019?

It's time to break the cycle. The World Cup can not continue to return to Western Europe on every second occasion. That is a myopic approach and anathema to the globalization cause.

But it does need to return to the Southern Hemisphere in 2023 for what will be the first time in 12 years. Moreover, it needs to return to the African continent, one of the hotbeds of international rugby development in recent decades.

This leads me to my final point in South Africa's favour. World Rugby officials have raised the possibility of an expanded tournament, and this is undoubtedly overdue. Again, with its vast array of rugby-purpose stadia, South Africa's credentials are unsurpassed as a potential host nation for a 24-team World Cup.

The last - and only - increase in teams was from 16 to 20 in 1999. This appears to have been successful, judging by the improved performances of the fringe teams in New Zealand and England.

In fact, no centuries have been recorded since 2003, while Japan's stunning victory over the Springboks this year suggests the days of foregone conclusions is World Cup rugby may be drawing to a close.

That said, a lot of work needs to be done in the interim if the additional teams are going to be genuinely competitive. One of the biggest obstacles to the game's global development is the stratification of its international competitions.

Not only are the elite championships closed-shop, but there is little interaction between the top teams and the emerging nations in between World Cups. How on earth are the up-and-comers supposed to be competitive in the big exam if they have been denied the lessons to prepare in between?

New Zealand and Australia should be playing annual tests with the Pacific Islands and Japan, as should the Six Nations with their Eastern European neighbours. South Africa ought to engage Namibia in a 'Bledisloe Cup'-style annual trophy match, and Hong Kong and Korea should be playing in the Pacific Challenge tournament, alongside the Pacific Islands B teams and Argentina's 'Pampas,' with a possible view to future inclusion in the Pacific Nations Championship.

In addition to this, would it not be a fairly straightforward exercise for Six Nations teams to stop in for tests against Namibia and Uruguay enroute to South Africa and Argentina, respectively - as well as the Pacific Islands while touring New Zealand or Australia?

By the same token, how about the Southern Hemisphere teams playing Georgia, Romania or Russia on their Autumn tours to Europe? Argentina might even take on Spain or Portugal.

If rugby is to more forward, it needs to expand its World Cup, and this can only be successful with a more integrated international rugby calendar.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:38 am

The Irish learned their Over-Claiming-What-Ain't-Yours trick from their pals across the IRISH sea, innit. Wink Sure weren't they the bestest teachers. "Take what you want and call it British"............. Whistle.............. unless they lose an Olympic medal, that is.... then of course they revert to being Scottish, Welsh or Norn Oirish....

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Post by Rowanbi Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:42 am

Didn't the Irish try to claim Muhammad Ali? Erm
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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:45 am

Well America claimed his forefathers...... so he was fair game, no?

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Post by Sin é Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:46 am

Rowanbi wrote:Andrew Jackson. 7th President. 1829 1837. Co. Antrim.

Just got booted off the front of the 20 dollar bill, I believe. Anti-slavery heroine Harriet Tubman to replace him. Good decision thumbsup Cool


They are moving Pres Jackson to the back of the note.
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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:47 am

Sin é wrote:
beshocked wrote:doctor grey Irish can actually claim Barack Obama as one of their own....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneygall#Visit_by_Barack_Obama

Makes him Irish as you can get. Wink

Laugh all you like, but Ireland is the only country in the world that get invited to the White House every year (for St. Patrick's Day). Very useful having an 'in' like that.




Great how everyone makes claim to presidents on their election..... come their first crisis it all changes to everyone but them.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:48 am

...plus one of them was Irish. Unfortunate for him. But if Africa claim him as one of their then I think his Irish genes brothers can also claim him as one of their???? Wink

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Post by Sin é Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:48 am

SecretFly wrote:Well America claimed his forefathers......  so he was fair game, no?

Very Happy
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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:50 am

...anyway, what has all this to do with Rowanbi's topic? It's well past 8.00am. Get to work. It's the World Cup and where should it be held.

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Post by Sin é Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:51 am

fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
beshocked wrote:doctor grey Irish can actually claim Barack Obama as one of their own....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneygall#Visit_by_Barack_Obama

Makes him Irish as you can get. Wink

Laugh all you like, but Ireland is the only country in the world that get invited to the White House every year (for St. Patrick's Day). Very useful having an 'in' like that.


Great how everyone makes claim to presidents on their election..... come their first crisis it all changes to everyone but them.

Do they? The American Presidents usually try and make claim to us. Bill Clinton did everything in his power to get us to adopt him and when the going got tough for him, Ireland was the place he came to because he knew we would be nice to him.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:54 am

SecretFly wrote:...plus one of them was Irish.  Unfortunate for him.  But if Africa claim him as one of their then I think his Irish genes brothers can also claim him as one of their???? Wink

think his unfortunate demise was less to do with him being Irish and more to do with him ruffling feathers... i.e. getting the mafia to rig the election, then going after them with vigour, trying to disband the CIA. The literature on him is mind boggling... tried to do a few years ago, got about a dozen books in and gave up. Its so twisted. What is sure though is that he had very dirty hands.. but probably no less than any other president.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 12:00 pm

fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:...plus one of them was Irish.  Unfortunate for him.  But if Africa claim him as one of their then I think his Irish genes brothers can also claim him as one of their???? Wink

think his unfortunate demise was less to do with him being Irish and more to do with him ruffling feathers... i.e. getting the mafia to rig the election, then going after them with vigour, trying to disband the CIA. The literature on him is mind boggling... tried to do a few years ago, got about a dozen books in and gave up. Its so twisted. What is sure though is that he had very dirty hands.. but probably no less than any other president.

????? Jesus, Ali led a busier life than I thought Erm

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 12:00 pm

Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
beshocked wrote:doctor grey Irish can actually claim Barack Obama as one of their own....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneygall#Visit_by_Barack_Obama

Makes him Irish as you can get. Wink

Laugh all you like, but Ireland is the only country in the world that get invited to the White House every year (for St. Patrick's Day). Very useful having an 'in' like that.


Great how everyone makes claim to presidents on their election..... come their first crisis it all changes to everyone but them.

Do they? The American Presidents usually try and make claim to us. Bill Clinton did everything in his power to get us to adopt him and when the going got tough for him, Ireland was the place he came to because he knew we would be nice to him.


Presidents and presidential candidates will make claim to any group they can because "being one of their own" helps. Clinton is a one off lets be honest, he could charm the pants off anyone  Shocked . Irish Americans are an important voting block and given they heavily identify with being Irish American, coming out and showing yourself to be will certainly help win support amongst this group.

He is reverred in Ireland though from memory. His work on the peace process etc left him with a friend for life tag.... like Tony Blair and um.... uh, Kosovo???  You guys love your adopted sons though... I imagine Jack Charlton will be mourned more in Ireland than in England (not suggesting he is hated mind).

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 12:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:...plus one of them was Irish.  Unfortunate for him.  But if Africa claim him as one of their then I think his Irish genes brothers can also claim him as one of their???? Wink

think his unfortunate demise was less to do with him being Irish and more to do with him ruffling feathers... i.e. getting the mafia to rig the election, then going after them with vigour, trying to disband the CIA. The literature on him is mind boggling... tried to do a few years ago, got about a dozen books in and gave up. Its so twisted. What is sure though is that he had very dirty hands.. but probably no less than any other president.

?????  Jesus, Ali led a busier life than I thought Erm

ha, thought you were talking about ol' jackie.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 12:25 pm

fa0019 wrote:

He [Clinton] is reverred in Ireland though from memory. His work on the peace process etc left him with a friend for life tag.... like Tony Blair and um.... uh, Kosovo???  You guys love your adopted sons though... I imagine Jack Charlton will be mourned more in Ireland than in England (not suggesting he is hated mind).

It's funny but old hard edged Jack...the man of stone face and little expressed emotion.... he was visited by a journalist a while back.... and his house is festooned with memorabilia of his time with and in Ireland. For him a special period. So again, it's not so much us clinging to him as him sharing the regard. He put a big smile on our collective faces for a few brief years (in a way he was partially responsible for the Celtic Tiger period - the good bit before the fall Whistle ) and yes, we Irish do have a long memory for such people.

On Clinton, he was a special president, despite the cigar... or because of it. Wink And the longer time goes on the more Americans themselves will realise it. 'It's the Economy, stupid'

For me his best moment had nothing to do with Ireland but actually his loss of patience with the idiot European politicians who were looking at ethnic cleansing happening again on their own 'territory' and not really doing a damn thing to stop it. So Clinton stopped listening to their procrastinating whines and started bombing the bastards that were doing the war crimes under the very noses of UN peace keepers.

And then we're led to believe that the European Union means Peace in Our Time???? It means what it has always meant - a recipe eternally stewing in preparation for yet another war.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:
fa0019 wrote:

He [Clinton] is reverred in Ireland though from memory. His work on the peace process etc left him with a friend for life tag.... like Tony Blair and um.... uh, Kosovo???  You guys love your adopted sons though... I imagine Jack Charlton will be mourned more in Ireland than in England (not suggesting he is hated mind).

It's funny but old hard edged Jack...the man of stone face and little expressed emotion.... he was visited by a journalist a while back.... and his house is festooned with memorabilia of his time with and in Ireland.  For him a special period.  So again, it's not so much us clinging to him as him sharing the regard.  He put a big smile on our collective faces for a few brief years (in a way he was partially responsible for the Celtic Tiger period - the good bit before the fall  Whistle ) and yes, we Irish do have a long memory for such people.  

On Clinton, he was a special president, despite the cigar... or because of it. Wink  And the longer time goes on the more Americans themselves will realise it.  'It's the Economy, stupid'

For me his best moment had nothing to do with Ireland but actually his loss of patience with the idiot European politicians who were looking at ethnic cleansing happening again on their own 'territory' and not really doing a damn thing to stop it.  So Clinton stopped listening to their procrastinating whines and started bombing the bastards that were doing the war crimes under the very noses of UN peace keepers.

And then we're led to believe that the European Union means Peace in Our Time????  It means what it has always meant - a recipe eternally stewing in preparation for yet another war.

Yeah he's a top lad. So he banged his intern, some presidents have secret families even during their tenure. Wife is running off his coattails and I imagine many will for years to come.


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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:14 pm

anyway enough of this we're in agreement rubbish.

English - we want Italy to get the world cup because my missus doesn't let me go out anymore so a rugby tour with the boys is all I got left.

Ireland - we want the world cup because we ain't got no chance of getting to a semi-final without it.

Scotland - Ryanair don't fly to Cape Town.

Wales - We'll support whoever drops a bag of cash on our doorstep.... and if its Argentina, yes we want home games.

South Africa - poisoning teams is far easier when its on your own turf. What are the chances anyhow when you're relying on South Africans to put on a charm offensive?

Australia - someone just give us some cash, please.

NZ - Your vote doesn't matter, you won't tune in until the semifinals, games will be on at 3am regardless so only watched by 20 people, 3 sheep and a dog. Everyone pretends to love you but hell everyone loves it when you lose.... well other than when England do as that is the ultimate disaster scenario in rugby.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:22 pm

laughing OK

Spot on, fa.

Close this thread now folks. It's sorted.

Madagascar to get the Gig because.......................... we care Hug

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:24 pm

how many hotel rooms does Madagascar have though?

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:30 pm

you sleep out in that place.... a beach, some watery romantic red sun sinking as you put your arm around the girl you just met the morning before?????

Don't you know nothing about classy living, fa??

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:you sleep out in that place.... a beach, some watery romantic red sun sinking as you put your arm around the girl you just met the morning before?????

Don't you know nothing about classy living, fa??

The more mosquito bites you get, the more luxurious the holiday.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:38 pm

Mosquitos don't like beaches.............. too many Germans stealing their towels.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 1:43 pm

SecretFly wrote:Mosquitos don't like beaches.............. too many Germans stealing their towels.

unlike your own folk who seem determined to get that Dr Zoidberg look. I remember going on holiday with an old pal whose family come from Mayo.... strategy was to go full red, by day 5 it was so red it was nearly brown.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:09 pm

Well, the English ain't too bad at thinking red is brown either..... surely you didn't need to find a family from Mayo to observe the phenomenon of the Mad Dog and English Men???

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:Well, the English ain't too bad at thinking red is brown either..... surely you didn't need to find a family from Mayo to observe the phenomenon of the Mad Dog and English Men???

kickback from all those brits with Irish grannies!!!

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:21 pm

Yeah.  Who Do You Think You Are got a little embarrassing in the first few seasons.  The researchers were probably praying they found a celeb that didn't have to make a trip to Ireland.

Poor John Hurt was the worst.  Still feel sorry for him.  He was genuinely shattered.

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Post by Guest Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:32 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Sin é wrote:The ties to Ireland have huge validity though. The Irish* were catholic (as were the Italians) in a predominantly protestant country. They were also regarded as 2nd class citizens until JFK broke the mould there. Obama was African-Americans JFK-Irish moment in history.

*You also have Ulster-Scots in US - about 6m of them who claim that heritage.

Sure I've read that some with an Ulster heritage don't identify as Ulster-Scots. Maybe Irish, maybe couldn't be bothered. Maybe a large number from Ulster weren't actually from a Scot background. It isn't as if Ulster wasn't populated before they arrived.

The Ulster folk were the Frontiers men in the USA, as well as playing their part in the big cities, such as New York.

Presidents with Ulster-Scots heritage:

1. Andrew Jackson. 7th President. 1829 1837. Co. Antrim.

2. James Knox Polk. 11th President. 1845 1849. Co. Londonderry.

3. James Buchanan. 15th President. 1857 1861. Co. Tyrone.

4. Andrew Johnson. 17th President. 1865 1869. Co. Antrim.

5. Ulysses S. Grant. 18th President. 1869 1877. Co. Tyrone.

6. Chester A. Arthur. 21st President. 1881 1885. Co. Antrim.

7. Stephen Grover Cleveland. 22nd & 24th President. 1885 1889,1893 1897.

8. Benjamin Harrison. 23rd 1889 1893. Co. Antrim.

9. William McKinley. 25th 1897 1901. Co. Antrim.

10. Theodore Roosevelt. 26th 1901 1904. Co. Antrim.

11. Thomas Woodrow Wilson. 28th 1913 1921. Co. Tyrone.

Sorry, this is just a wee bit off topic. Couldn't help myself Erm
Adding to your list:

George W. Bush - not sure the county - he can't spell it.  We know he likes potatoes.
Barak Obama - Limerick

Other leaders:

Jacob Zuma (SA expat from Dublin, Leinster fan)
Xi Jinping (Chinese expact from Cork, Connacht fan, why are they doing so well?)
Kim Jong Il (expat from, well, can't say it or he will unleash a nuclear disaster and make everyone get bad haircuts)
Donald Trump (expat from the Irish colony on Mars)

Geography not one of your strengths? Very Happy

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yeah.  Who Do You Think You Are got a little embarrassing in the first few seasons.  The researchers were probably praying they found a celeb that didn't have to make a trip to Ireland.

Poor John Hurt was the worst.  Still feel sorry for him.  He was genuinely shattered.

Jeremy Irons scouring his past for a single Irish ancestor was a little on the pathetic side.... so out of 400 ancestors we've managed to find a single Irishman..... "I KNEW IT, HOW WONDERFUL".

Best has to be Ainsley Harriot though... his shock when he found out his family were not just slaves like he thought but his direct paternal line goes back to a slave master and the rest of his family were freemen who were pimps. I just remember his face... "why did I sign up for this".

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:39 pm

I don't know why everyone laughs at Trump. He has a very viable and ambitious plan for building a wall around Mars itself, to keep the Syrians out. And as a part owner of the colony, I say darn tootin' right Trump! Can't have all Uuuropeeans trying to get in. The greens would be destroyed. Too many UUropeeans in UUrope anyway. Migrate them folks back to where they came from in the first place, like Rome and Madrid and places like that.

Signed: Official Trump Speechwriter

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Post by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 2:42 pm

Remind me what this thread was about again?????

Oh right. The World Cup. Yeah. I'll try to remember that longer than I remembered it last time I posted.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 21 Apr 2016, 6:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:Remind me what this thread was about again?????

Oh right.  The World Cup.  Yeah.  I'll try to remember that longer than I remembered it last time I posted.
No, no, no. The thread was about masturbating in front of a picture of the country of one's choice, then debating who was 'better'.  

It recently evolved into something significantly better.  Who knew the Irish roots of Barak O'Bama?  I learn something new every day on 606. One of the many reasons I enjoy coming here.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 7:00 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Remind me what this thread was about again?????

Oh right.  The World Cup.  Yeah.  I'll try to remember that longer than I remembered it last time I posted.
No, no, no.  The thread was about masturbating in front of a picture of the country of one's choice, then debating who was 'better'.  

It recently evolved into something significantly better.  Who knew the Irish roots of Barak O'Bama?  I learn something new every day on 606.  One of the many reasons I enjoy coming here.

Can you imagine the meeting he had with his "communications" director pre announcment.

Mr President - "brother I gotta do what?"
Com Dir - "look, 30 million mother f@ckin Irish voters... just drink a guinness, wave a blow up shamrock and talk about the stories your da used to tell you about great uncle Padraig from the old country... they love that s***. Then sit back and watch those numbers.

Mr President - "and the day after???"
Com Dir - 10 million Islamic Americans Barry....



I'll get my coat.

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Post by Sin é Thu 21 Apr 2016, 9:48 pm

Just on JF Kennedy's attachment to Ireland. Irish Army Cadets (which included Jamie Heaslip's Dad) were invited to perform 'the funeral drill' at his funeral by Jackie Kennedy. No other foreign army had ever been invited to do so before that (not sure if it has happened since).

Anyway, here is the drill they performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG9ChwQ0Kc

Starts at about 4.40.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu 21 Apr 2016, 9:54 pm

Sin é wrote:Just on JF Kennedy's attachment to Ireland. Irish Army Cadets (which included Jamie Heaslip's Dad) were invited to perform 'the funeral drill' at his funeral by Jackie Kennedy. No other foreign army had ever been invited to do so before that (not sure if it has happened since).

Anyway, here is the drill they performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG9ChwQ0Kc

Starts at about 4.40.
Shame he was murdered for speaking up against the Federal reserve and CIA. America's last real president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HTr-F-FVM

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Post by fa0019 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 10:26 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:Just on JF Kennedy's attachment to Ireland. Irish Army Cadets (which included Jamie Heaslip's Dad) were invited to perform 'the funeral drill' at his funeral by Jackie Kennedy. No other foreign army had ever been invited to do so before that (not sure if it has happened since).

Anyway, here is the drill they performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG9ChwQ0Kc

Starts at about 4.40.
Shame he was murdered for speaking up against the Federal reserve and CIA. America's last real president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HTr-F-FVM

I think you should read up on him, he was as filthy as they come. The literature on him is endless. I tried a few years back but gave up about a dozen books in, its too complex.
He pretty much rigged the election in 1960 with the help of the mafia.. only to turn against them the minute he got into office. Big mistake.

He went after the CIA after he bungled Cuba, made a lot of enemies. At best he knew about a hit on an alley sovereign head of state and did nothing about it, at worst he sanctioned it... either way its pretty shocking.

Did he go about trying to make America and the world a better place... by the looks of it yes. Was he an inspirational leader, yes.... yet his methods and morality were shocking; even for a 20th century leader of a western nation post war.

Sorry to say but his brothers weren't that much better too.

Its not necessarily that he went up against the establishment and got killed by them. He did but he used the establishment, was waist deep and even directed them to new lows yet then tried to muzzle them. Can anyone be surprised? I wouldn't say what turned out was after what had occurred. Not to say it was right but scratch the surface and the saintly glow that some still hold to JFK is pretty dark.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu 21 Apr 2016, 10:34 pm

fa0019 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:Just on JF Kennedy's attachment to Ireland. Irish Army Cadets (which included Jamie Heaslip's Dad) were invited to perform 'the funeral drill' at his funeral by Jackie Kennedy. No other foreign army had ever been invited to do so before that (not sure if it has happened since).

Anyway, here is the drill they performed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG9ChwQ0Kc

Starts at about 4.40.
Shame he was murdered for speaking up against the Federal reserve and CIA. America's last real president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HTr-F-FVM

I think you should read up on him, he was as filthy as they come. The literature on him is endless. I tried a few years back but gave up about a dozen books in, its too complex.
He pretty much rigged the election in 1960 with the help of the mafia.. only to turn against them the minute he got into office. Big mistake.

He went after the CIA after he bungled Cuba, made a lot of enemies. At best he knew about a hit on an alley sovereign head of state and did nothing about it, at worst he sanctioned it... either way its pretty shocking.

Did he go about trying to make America and the world a better place... by the looks of it yes. Was he an inspirational leader, yes.... yet his methods and morality were shocking; even for a 20th century leader of a western nation post war.

Sorry to say but his brothers weren't that much better too.

Its not necessarily that he went up against the establishment and got killed by them. He did but he used the establishment, was waist deep and even directed them to new lows yet then tried to muzzle them. Can anyone be surprised? I wouldn't say what turned out was after what had occurred. Not to say it was right but scratch the surface and the saintly glow that some still hold to JFK is pretty dark.
No doubt he wasn't a saint; you really can't be to get into a position to become president but there are very few leaders who have stood up to the corrupt and immoral CIA and federal reserve. Put it this way he's the best of a very bad and already long bought off bunch. You are right though the Kennedy name is steeped in a long list of conspiracy's, it;s hard to tell who is genuine.

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Post by Rowanbi Fri 22 Apr 2016, 11:51 am

JFK invaded Vietnam and Cuba, and followed up the latter debacle with a sustained terrorist campaign, but his big mistake was attempting to dismantle the CIA. He may have been the last American president to actually stand up to the puppet masters.

Not sure what bearing this has on the 2023 Rugby World Cup host, however . . . Erm
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 22 Apr 2016, 2:19 pm

JFK was a great hero. He had some of the most beautiful women in the world. Gawd, what a man.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 22 Apr 2016, 2:36 pm

JFK left a final directive just weeks before he was assassinated that impelled the CIA to stop at all cost South Africa having more than one hosting of a World Cup per 20 year period.

The CIA, feeling guilty about Oswald and all, are trying to keep to the promise.... for old time's sake.

That's the only connection I can find between JFK and this thread...from reading 700 autobiographical books by Kennedy's Women.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 22 Apr 2016, 3:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:JFK left a final directive just weeks before he was assassinated that impelled the CIA to stop at all cost South Africa having more than one hosting of a World Cup per 20 year period.

The CIA, feeling guilty about Oswald and all, are trying to keep to the promise.... for old time's sake.

That's the only connection I can find between JFK and this thread...from reading 700 autobiographical books by Kennedy's Women.
I have the same abridged version of JFK and his women, too. I read the same thing. Camelot (the JFK presidency) strictly prohibited SA from hosting more than one RWC. Said it would endanger world security. I thought I read in the Snowdon leaks the CIA is keeping Zuma in charge because no one in his right mind would put a major competition in a country wohch woul elect him. It is all a plot hatched over 40 years ago.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 22 Apr 2016, 3:22 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:JFK left a final directive just weeks before he was assassinated that impelled the CIA to stop at all cost South Africa having more than one hosting of a World Cup per 20 year period.

The CIA, feeling guilty about Oswald and all, are trying to keep to the promise.... for old time's sake.

That's the only connection I can find between JFK and this thread...from reading 700 autobiographical books by Kennedy's Women.
I have the same abridged version of JFK and his women, too.  I read the same thing.  Camelot (the JFK presidency) strictly prohibited SA from hosting more than one RWC.  Said  it would endanger world security.  I thought I read in the Snowdon leaks the CIA is keeping Zuma in charge because no one in his right mind would put a major competition in a country wohch woul elect him.  It is all a plot hatched over 40 years ago.

The final part makes more sense then him simply appealing to the electorate.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 22 Apr 2016, 3:40 pm

fa0019 wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:JFK left a final directive just weeks before he was assassinated that impelled the CIA to stop at all cost South Africa having more than one hosting of a World Cup per 20 year period.

The CIA, feeling guilty about Oswald and all, are trying to keep to the promise.... for old time's sake.

That's the only connection I can find between JFK and this thread...from reading 700 autobiographical books by Kennedy's Women.
I have the same abridged version of JFK and his women, too.  I read the same thing.  Camelot (the JFK presidency) strictly prohibited SA from hosting more than one RWC.  Said  it would endanger world security.  I thought I read in the Snowdon leaks the CIA is keeping Zuma in charge because no one in his right mind would put a major competition in a country wohch woul elect him.  It is all a plot hatched over 40 years ago.

The final part makes more sense then him simply appealing to the electorate.
I always thought it was the Mafia who got him elected. So the mafia was his electorate, no? Just like FIFA.

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