Ulster 2015/2016 Part 2

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Continue your discussion of all things Ulster here.

Henry had a good game last night, not back to his best but better than his recent form. Looked better at the breakdown and made some good tackles

What was huge for us about last night was Edinburgh losing at home. Expect Leinster, Munster and Glasgow to win in this round but if Glasgow lose to Leinster and Munster lose to Cardiff in their games before we play again I'll be a lot more comfortable.

Our next match is CRUCIAL. We must go to Scotstoun and win. Win, and we have set ourselves up for a late tilt at the top of the table. Lose, and we are fighting tooth and nail for the Top 6.

Notch wrote:What was huge for us about last night was Edinburgh losing at home. Expect Leinster, Munster and Glasgow to win in this round but if Glasgow lose to Leinster and Munster lose to Cardiff in their games before we play again I'll be a lot more comfortable.

Our next match is CRUCIAL. We must go to Scotstoun and win. Win, and we have set ourselves up for a late tilt at the top of the table. Lose, and we are fighting tooth and nail for the Top 6.

I would add Leinster beating Ospreys today, to that. Ospreys aren't out of it yet, and we are away to them in the last game, before knock outs. Then we are in competition against Edinburgh, Munster and Glasgow for 6th spot, but they will lose games along the way. So will we, I believe. I can't see past 3 win out of the remaining 5, and 2 of those are against Connacht and Leinster at Ravers. Hopefully Leinster and Connacht can destroy all before them, except us.

Ospreys lose away at Leinster, good for us.

Ulster should be thinking they NEED to win 5 with as many bonus points as possible to get a home semi. Just trying to crawl into the top 6 and hope for a few favours from others has to be the best way on missing out and something that neither players commentators or fans should settle for while the playoffs are still in reach.

I wouldn't believe Ulster would be thinking defeat against any of the teams we face, but the harsh reality is that we aren't playing well. Consider the last two losses, and the run in we have with facing Glasgow and Ospreys away, Leinster and Connacht at home.
I think we will win our home games, with some key players returning, and we should beat Zebre away. I agree with Notch. Beating Glasgow will go a long way to securing a top 6 spot, but it's a huge ask, considering current form. Can't really see past that at the moment.

Yea... It may have been improved performance last night. But it was still a performance that, if repeated, would see us lose against all remaining opposition. We need this slight improvement to be but the very beginning of a sharp upward trajectory.

Well with some players to return from Ireland duty, along with Payne and, hopefully, Henderson, we have a real chance of winning our home games. Also hoping we see McCloskey and Marshall in the centre, with Payne at FB.

Any word on Herbst?

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster should be thinking they NEED to win 5 with as many bonus points as possible to get a home semi. Just trying to crawl into the top 6 and hope for a few favours from others has to be the best way on missing out and something that neither players commentators or fans should settle for while the playoffs are still in reach.

Yeah absolutely as far as the players and coaches go. Of course what we think has no bearing. Feck, even if people write them off they can use it for motivation.

Ian Humphreys has today confirmed that he will retire from rugby at the end of this season.

The flyhalf, who turns 34 next month, has represented Ulster on 113 occasions and has an impressive haul of 745 points from those outings.

He joined the Province in 2008 and made his debut - versus Newport Gwent Dragons - in September that year. He made his 100th appearance, against Scarlets, at Kingspan Stadium just over 12 months ago.

Humphreys has played eight times for Les Kiss' men this season, including four starts, and has scored two tries.

The former Ballymena Academy student also enjoyed two successful stints in England with Leicester Tigers (2005-2008) and London Irish (2012-2014).

Commenting on his decision to retire, Humphreys said:

"Unfortunately my body is telling me it's time to stop. I feel blessed to have enjoyed such a long career, the undoubted highlight of which has been achieving 100 caps for my home Province. I would like to thank everyone who has been part of my journey, particularly my wife Jenny, my daughters Anna and Zoe and the rest of my family."

Ulster's Operations Director, Bryn Cunningham, paid tribute to Humphreys:

"Throughout his rugby career, 'Mini Humph' has been one of the stand-out attacking ten's in European Rugby. However, it is possibly his organisational and communication skills with players around him, often unseen by those watching, that made Ian such an influential person to have around the team. Everyone at Ulster Rugby wishes Ian, Jenny and the kids the very best for the future."

I was a young nipper at school CAI watching our firsts play against Ballymena Academy in the Schools Cup. Ian kicked a penalty in the last few minutes to put us out of the cup.

Now that guy has retired! THAT MAKES ME FEEL VERY OLD!


Ian, as somebody who likes high risk exciting rugby, i do remember plenty of occassions where you, like Paul Marshall have made something out of nothing. Thank you for your service to Ulster Rugby.

That said, the club needs to have an ambition to be good enough that players of his calibre don't make the cut ever again. And no offence is intended when I say that. Best of luck to him.

Rumour is the replacement 10 from england is Brett Connon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9sxc-J3PBk

Not hugely exciting.

Same age as McPhillips, and McPhillips has been starting for Ireland u20s whilst Connon has been on the bench.

Remember last time we signed an Irish U20 out-half - that went well didn't it!

If it's true, I don't see either of them breaking through, and suspect Paddy's backup will be Nelson next season, followed by Windsor I guess.

Let's hope the backrow IQ signing is more relevant.

As I mentioned Humphreys going was a near certainty - he had lost the edge to play.

All said and done though a decent fella who mixed moments of magic with the bizarre - good luck to him.

We were never ever going to get a top 10 replacement - especially as, yet another attempt to move  a player north failed.
We have three promising kids - Nelson, McPhillips and possibly Connon.
Coach them right and we will see the reward.
The fact O'Hagan didn't have the bottle for it doesn't alter the fact this is the way to go.

Big question now is will we keep Windsor or will the above plus Olding and Pienaer mean we have 10 covered well enough anyway.

O'Hagan didn't work out but it didn't cost us anything to take a punt on him. Those kinds of signings sometimes work out, sometimes don't but they are worth a shot.

There's quite a few occasions where a player is behind another at youth level but goes on to surpass him later in their career. I remember people thought McKinley was a better prospect than Madigan at Leinster (might have been if not for the eye thing) that Sexton wouldn't make it etc. Conor Murray got dropped from the U20s for Matt Healy who has since moved to play wing. U20s selection isn't everything.

This Connon fella might not make the grade but Humphreys is so obviously done. Good luck to Humph but you got the impression it wasn't just the body giving up but the mind too.

If its just to fill Humphreys/Windors place in the squad could McKinley be worth looking at? Granted hes playing in the Italian league but by all reports he is Viadanas best player as well as their captain.

How did he go when you played Zebre?

Golden wrote:If its just to fill Humphreys/Windors place in the squad could McKinley be worth looking at? Granted hes playing in the Italian league but by all reports he is Viadanas best player as well as their captain.

How did he go when you played Zebre?

I have to say, I was shocked by the accuracy and speed of his passing. Also by his willingness to take the ball aggressively into contact. I was very impressed by him.

Agree with Rory, he looked very good and dare I say was the best 10 on show in the match.

Of course Nick Williams was not there to harass him at that stage, and some Ulster tackling had switched into pink candyfloss mode. Still he injected a real dynamism into Zebre, that made me glad he hadn't been on earlier.

Anybody watching the Schools cup. Howler of a ref. Gave inst a yellow for a legal tackle

Utterly bizarre game. Can't believe Inst won it. Campbell will rue not taking the points from any of those penalties.

Kettle's on:
https://www.606v2.com/t62512-glasgow-warriors-v-ulster-rugby-25-march

Don Alfonso wrote:Utterly bizarre game. Can't believe Inst won it. Campbell will rue not taking the points from any of those penalties.

I only started watching from about 50 minutes and the ref blew for time on 66 minutes just after the breakaway try and I have to say that's the worst game I've seen in a long long time. Lack of skill, bad decisions, poor officiating only marginally offset by the graciousness of the Inst captain Field at the end. I know it's the second oldest rugby trophy in the world but judging by that fare it is in danger of extinction.

There is something seriously flawed with a competition where a school like Inst consistently produces winners but has only produced Roger Wilson and Ryan Caldwell to the professional ranks in 15 years. Campbell have only fared marginally better with Paddy Wallace, Neil McComb, Mike McCombish, Chris Farrell and Rory Scholes in that time. Yet a school like Wallace (who have never won it) is consistently producing more players so it is the type of rugby that certain schools choose to play that determines whether they are giving these kids a chance of a professional career.

On the 16 minute evidence I saw last Thursday there aren't any from Inst or Campbell who will add to the list either.

Had a chat with someone senior in the Irish set up - posted outcome in the Irish squad topic, in the international section, if anyone interested on some of the observations regarding Ulster players and others.

It is certainly going to be interesting when McCloskey and Payne return from Ireland duty. Who is going to miss out? Luke Marshall? That would seem incredibly harsh as he has been our most consistent player since his return from injury. I doubt Olding will be dropped from the starting line-up so I can't see who else it would be.

Olding and McCloskey will share 12
Payne and Marshall will share 13
Piatau at 15

As I said on the International folder Payne, Henshaw, McCloskey and Marshall are Ireland first choice centres for at least the next 12 months

Speaking of Charlie Piatau I see he's scoring yet again. He's scoring tries for fun at the moment and this time it took him only 26 seconds. He's doing this with a 13 on his back and seems to be very much enjoying the position. He looks utterly world class at 15, 11 or 13. Jack of all trades, master of all of them as well

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is certainly going to be interesting when McCloskey and Payne return from Ireland duty. Who is going to miss out? Luke Marshall? That would seem incredibly harsh as he has been our most consistent player since his return from injury. I doubt Olding will be dropped from the starting line-up so I can't see who else it would be.

Cave you'd think. Ultimately he's the only guys with no test future.

Notch wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is certainly going to be interesting when McCloskey and Payne return from Ireland duty. Who is going to miss out? Luke Marshall? That would seem incredibly harsh as he has been our most consistent player since his return from injury. I doubt Olding will be dropped from the starting line-up so I can't see who else it would be.

Cave you'd think. Ultimately he's the only guys with no test future.

Sure he will be but who else - we have 4 other very good centres

I think the best combination right now is McCloskey and Payne, but McCloskey and Marshall pushes it close. Olding is the most talented but our lack of penetration and lateral back play is best addressed by McCloskey I feel.

Henderson looks like he will be on the bench for Glasgow.
The virus has finally gone from the club so Ruan, Cave and AOC all back to normal
Best and Herbst will not be back till the Leinster game

Tuohy has had a set back and will be out for ages - my gut feeling is physically and mentally he could be history.
Seems to have entered the Humphreys and Danielli mind set of 'my body cant take it any more'

So looks like Henderson, De Merwe, AOC, Treadwell, Browne, Atkinson at lock next year and in that order

geoff999rugby wrote:Henderson looks like he will be on the bench for Glasgow.
The virus has finally gone from the club so Ruan, Cave and AOC all back to normal
Best and Herbst will not be back till the Leinster game

Tuohy has had a set back and will be out for ages - my gut feeling is physically and mentally he could be history.
Seems to have entered the Humphreys and Danielli mind set of 'my body cant take it any more'

So looks like Henderson, De Merwe, AOC, Treadwell, Browne, Atkinson at lock next year and in that order

Good news at last Geoff, apart from the news on Tuohy of course.
The fortnight off will obviously be of benefit to those who were way off form due to the virus etc and Ruan badly needed a bit of a rest regardless of illness.
Having Hendo back is music to my ears, an extra but of raw power we'll need to bring on in this vital match.

Notch wrote:I think the best combination right now is McCloskey and Payne, but McCloskey and Marshall pushes it close. Olding is the most talented but our lack of penetration and lateral back play is best addressed by McCloskey I feel.

Agree with that.

Looks like a very tough run in, I think we'll do well to hang on to a top 4 spot, what's the thoughts?

Any two from Glasgow, Ulster, Munster, Scarlets would be my call - to join Connacht and Leinster.
We need to win at least 3 and probably 4

Ospreys to far gone and Edinburgh not good enough and have to go to Dublin and Cork

Think it will be Connacht, Leinster, Scarlets and Glasgow for the top four. Think we will finish 5th, and Munster are in a fight for 6th. If we are to have a chance to get top 4, then we must beat Glasgow.

It all comes down to which Ulster show up, if its the one we have become accustomed to seeing then we could be lucky to finish in the top 6 but with the Irish players coming back along with Henderson and Bowe added to a few weeks off for the rest of the squad you'd like to think it'll be a refreshed and rejuvenated Ulster who can beat anyone on their day

All the top teams have a game against Italian opposition too, coming away with anything less than 5 points from those games could be huge, Glasgow also have a game in hand with two games against Zebre as well as Treviso to come too

We only have to win 2 games to make the top 6.

Ospreys would have to win all 5 to stand any chances of catching us and Edinburgh would have to win at least 4 from 5 and that includes trips to Cork and Dublin.

If we cant manage that we don't deserve anything

Remember our old friend Jim Nagusa?

http://www.rugbydump.com/2016/03/4978/timosi-nagusa-huge-hit-leads-to-jesse-mogg-try-in-montpellier-romp

I think tonight we'll see how much chances we have in the playoff, if we make it. We need to be hitting our straps at this point.

Not happy at all. You have to wonder about player mindsets. Do they actually understand the position we are in?

Glasgow ruthlessly (and rightly so) take away our LBP, and literally seconds later we see our players laughing with their players.

I love that with rugby, things are civil the very second the full time whistle blows, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, that looking at the faces of some players - they didn't look annoyed.

I didn't see any post match interviews -  can somebody please reassure me that somebody from Ulster has gone on record as understanding last nights loss was very bad, and very annoying.

Whatever about Coetzee and Piutau, I'm not ready to postpone my passion for the club - I expect top level performances from all players. We are not talking about having poor quality players on the pitch, we had players on the pitch who were not performing at 100% of what they can. And that is incredibly frustrating.

Also, when I saw the selection, I didn't question it - but I'm hearing now that we are the only Irish Province who didn't play our returning internationals. Can somebody explain... why the hell not?????

All International have to be rested a given amount of time - the other provinces will rest there players in other games

We were missing Best, Payne and Trimble and played Herring, Marshall and Scholes - we were not seriously weakened by missing our 3 Irish players.

That was our best performance of 2016 against, at full strength, the best team in the league

geoff999rugby wrote:All International have to be rested a given amount of time - the other provinces will rest there players in other games

We were missing Best, Payne and Trimble and played Herring, Marshall and Scholes - we were not seriously weakened by missing our 3 Irish players.

That was our best performance of 2016 against, at full strength, the best team in the league

It may well be... but does that mean it was good enough?

Never said it was - merely stating a fact to emphasis that we were not weakened by not playing the 3 internationals, by any significant degree.

Actually though thinking about it was a reasonable performance.
Gave the best team in the league a run for there money in their own back yard with a sub standard pack.
Of course players can play better but some of our supporters need to wake and smell the coffee

Black, Lutton, de Merwe, Diack and this year Henry are all distinctly average.
That is 5 of the pack that played most of the game
Henderson coming back after a long injury
Williams did nothing
That leaves Herring

It isn't that they don't try it is they are average.
We will rely a hell of a lot on Coetzee, Henderson and Best next year.
We need McCall, Herbst, AOC and Treadwell to step up to the plate big time next year otherwise it will not, significantly, change

I agree with you, geoff, but think you are being unfair to Williams. Williams was injured early in the game. You could tell by his body language that he hadn't recovered from it (Williams isn't one to show he is injured unless it's bad), but he carried on playing.
Williams has been our stand out player this season. He's pretty much carried this team at times.

Don't disagree with that but the point is he contributed little, even if it wasn't his fault.

Bottomline is, collectively, our forwards just don't cut it - that is the brutal truth

Just watched the game - a few points:

1) Our pack is not good enough
2) Our pack is not good enough
3) Our support play is not good enough
4) Jackson had a poor game by his standards and needs to find his form again (not helped by poor pack and halfback)
5) Luke Marshall was tenacious in defence and saved us a number of times
6) Both Henderson and Williams (while on the pitch) were quiet with ball in hand
7) Olding is better either further infield or on the bench - I don't think he is a 15
8) Jim Neilly cannot tell the difference between Henderson and McCloskey - he got it wrong every single time

I can't see us finishing in the top 4 which is very disappointing but not undeserved. We MUST finish in the top 6.

Agree with points 1 to 8.

On the question of Olding talented player though he is I would have him on the bench covering 10,12,15 ala Madigan.
McCloskey, Marshall with Payne at 15 is so obviously our best option

Talking of Madigan - Jackson may have not been great but Madigan was far worse in Galway

geoff999rugby wrote:Agree with points 1 to 8.

On the question of Olding talented player though he is I would have him on the bench covering 10,12,15 ala Madigan.
McCloskey, Marshall with Payne at 15 is so obviously our best option

Talking of Madigan - Jackson may have not been great but Madigan was far worse in Galway

Jackson hasn't been great but he certainly hasn't been a liability. Madigan constantly puts his team under pressure. He was charged down twice within 30 seconds at one stage.

Watching the game yesterday MacGinty looked a better player than Madigan

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/ireland-rugby-fastest-player/72222

Losing the fastest player in our squad in Scholes

You've just reminded me that I'm still annoyed he is leaving

Had a giggle at Shanahan's heart rate though