Ireland Squad Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Continuing on from Ireland Squad Announcement Thread.

Billy, Marmion isn't close to taking Murray's spot. Schmidt has built the team around Sexton who likes to boss his scrumhalf. Marmion isn't that kind of scrumhalf that can be bossed - he does too much stuff off his own bat.

Sexton likes a smart quick scrum half.... don't give me that Sin, that Murray is a "Yes Sir Mr Sexton, sir" man

Murray just needs to hurry up....OR...Marmion WILL catch him

SecretFly wrote:Sexton likes a smart quick scrum half.... don't give me that Sin, that Murray is a "Yes Sir Mr Sexton, sir" man

Murray just needs to hurry up....OR...Marmion WILL catch him

Murray can do it both ways (he learned from the great ROG who always called the shots). I'd imagine Johnny appreciates Murray not shovelling the ball at it or else he would have a lot more headaches

No... he's much too slow at times in absolutely lovely positions and when the opposition defence can be got at....

At least agree with me on that. This is about the Irish team honing small areas a bit at a time to get the job done easier. And Murray is a guy that needs to get quicker when our guys are pushing - simple. And if he does so on occasion, then he has no excuse for not doing it more regularly.

BTW - Sexton still gets murdered out there! So much for plan A - slow delivery to save Johnny

SecretFly wrote:No... he's much too slow at times in absolutely lovely positions and when the opposition defence can be got at....

At least agree with me on that.  This is about the Irish team honing small areas a bit at a time to get the job done easier.  And Murray is a guy that needs to get quicker when our guys are pushing - simple.  And if he does so on occasion, then he has no excuse for not doing it more regularly.

BTW - Sexton still gets murdered out there!  So much for plan A - slow delivery to save Johnny

Ya see, Joe wants the game to be controlled. As they say, if you hold the ball, the opposition can't score.

Sin é wrote:Billy, Marmion isn't close to taking Murray's spot. Schmidt has built the team around Sexton who likes to boss his scrumhalf. Marmion isn't that kind of scrumhalf that can be bossed - he does too much stuff off his own bat.

Not sure about that Sin é, I think that Marmion is much closer to Murray than you may think. Murray is still clearly the better 9 and the number one 9 in Ireland but if given exposure at International level, Marmion will get better I feel and will push Murray.

Sexton, sadly, wont be around much longer I feel as he has had far too many concussions.

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Josh van der Flier will miss the SA tour. He is getting surgery on his ankle for the injury he received in the Ulster game. Disappointing as it would have been a massive opportunity for him but he certainly has time on his side.

Will SOB be fit in time?

I don't think we should bring him if he is. Let his body rest and get a proper pre-season.

Notch wrote:I don't think we should bring him if he is. Let his body rest and get a proper pre-season.

Agreed. I assume that TOD will start at 7 if he isn't involved. I wouldn't mind seeing Henderson, Stander and Heaslip starting for this particular tour, though. Sheer power.

It sound like Sean O'Brien will be out for a while. Having an op on his hamstring.

http://www.the42.ie/sean-obrien-hamstring-surgery-2777961-May2016/

Cian Healy looks to be in trouble as well.

The odds are one of those two might come back for one final stormer year... It kinda tends to happen that when you think a guy is gone, he has a final blow out.

But really, unfortunately, I think the game is closing slowly but surely for these two powerhorses O'Brien and Healy.

On an unrelated note - watching the Connacht game, and enjoying the Fields of Athenry. What happened to Molly Malone at Landsdown? And what is Munster's own song?

The Fields of Athenry became popular at ROI international soccer matches in the late 80s, early '90s - its an Irish song (similar to Danny Boy) rather than either Munster or Connacht, Celtic, Liverpool or London Irish. It was a show stopper at the 2012 Euros v Italy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJDce3KZN4

It has become associated with Munster because it was aired a lot by Munster fans during the '00s! You will hear it a lot at the upcoming Euros. It has replaced Molly Malone as a song to sing at internationals because it is a better song.

Munster has its own song - Stand up and Fight. Can be seen here (with words).

https://youtu.be/VrtmXC11W90?t=46s

Munster squad singing it in the dressing room
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwJyab16zKA

Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Donnacha Ryan, Ultan Dillane.

CJ Stander, Rhys Ruddock, Jamie Heaslip, Jordi Murphy, Tommy O’Donnell, Chris Henry

2bFair wrote:On an unrelated note - watching the Connacht game, and enjoying the Fields of Athenry. What happened to Molly Malone at Landsdown? And what is Munster's own song?

Hopefully forgotten and never to be sung again.

There is something..... pirate-y and wench-y and sea shantyish and light and joyful about Molly Malone that certainly can't be said for the dirge that is The Fields of Athenry.

" By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Micheal they are taking you away
For you stole Trevelyn's corn
So the young might see the morn.
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay."

It's a great song - and Paddy Reilly made it rattle the soul - but a song to be sung when your team is winning a sport's contest?  Hmmm.  I never get it.

I'd much prefer the 7th Calvary's Garryowen:

"We can dare or we can do
United men and brothers too
Their gallant footsteps to pursue
And change our country's story."

marty2086 wrote:Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

What about the 2nd and backrow?

McCloskey out is a call I can't agree with. Rob has played like a drain all year, and is our only FB option if Payne is only considered at centre.

Can't believe he left out Bundi-aki, Nacewa and the nigerian fella at Connacht.

Way too much xenophobia in this pick.

The Nigerian fella is already qualified too, ain't he. Now he looks a right spruce goose.... oh that couldn't fly! - wrong analogy alert!!! .... yis get what I mean; a racing pigeon with an emergency message.

Niyi, Niyi, Niyi!!! Get used to it, I think we may be chanting it soon enough.

the-goon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

What about the 2nd and backrow?

McCloskey out is a call I can't agree with. Rob has played like a drain all year, and is our only FB option if Payne is only considered at centre.

Fixed now

Payne is the only other fb option if you exclude Olding, Earls and Henshaw

marty2086 wrote:

the-goon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

What about the 2nd and backrow?

McCloskey out is a call I can't agree with. Rob has played like a drain all year, and is our only FB option if Payne is only considered at centre.

Fixed now

Payne is the only other fb option if you exclude Olding, Earls and Henshaw

Can't complain about the forwards really. Maybe a case for 1 of the connacht backrows. But can't agree on the 3/4s. McCloskey has been harshly treated but JS.I don't see any obvious weaknesses in his game and would mean he couldn't fit into the system.

marty2086 wrote:Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Donnacha Ryan, Ultan Dillane.

CJ Stander, Rhys Ruddock, Jamie Heaslip, Jordi Murphy, Tommy O’Donnell, Chris Henry

Well if that is the squad it's clear that form counts for nothing. I'm not saying that the squad should be loaded with Connacht players but 4 out of a squad of 33 while Leinster get 16 is no reflection on how this season has gone for the Irish provinces. Both Kearneys have done nothing to warrant selection ahead of O'Halloran and Healy (and while there are questions about Healy's defence he showed up well in defence in the two Glasgow games). Luke Fitz - an injury waiting to happen. And Jordi Murphy while he might have improved a bit in the last couple of games has had a very poor season, Henry has done some great stuff for Ireland in the past but this hasn't been a great season for him. Eoin McKeon has as good a case to be in the squad as Murohy or Henry.

Terrible pity that Denis Buckley is injured but even if he was fit would Schmidt have picked him ahead of Kilcoyne, a useless scrummager we're apparently going to put up against the likes of Jannie du Plessis. Somehow can see Bealham's ability to play both sides of the front row as being very important on this tour as Kilcoyne gets murdered in the scrum and becomes a penalty machine for the Saffers. Would love to see Dillane and Henderson up against Etzebeth and de Jager in the 2R but imagine Toner will be a definite starter if only for his line out ability (at least until Cronin comes on does his usual).

Have to say I find it hard to be very positive about this tour - hope I'm wrong - but we're going to need big physical performances and take on the Saffers up front. Don't see many tries coming from that back line.

The more I see it the more I think the first test in Cape Town is such a bogey match. Weather will probably be dire, sea level. Ireland still a decent side although not sure on injuries.
The boks will have no tune up games, will be missing all their players from France as in Bissie, Jannie, Vermeulen etc.

Strauss from the bulls is looking decent though, his lineout is the best in SR this season statistically. The backrow will be interesting for the boks as its not clear how Coetzee will go... to be honest he couldn't go too wrong with a trio of Louw, Botha and Labushange (last two have been quite impressive for bulls and man shamed the Stormers on the weekend)... although unlikely. Especially if Vermeulen is not available.

fa0019 wrote:The more I see it the more I think the first test in Cape Town is such a bogey match.

Totally agree, Ireland should put 50 points on them.

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:The more I see it the more I think the first test in Cape Town is such a bogey match.

Totally agree, Ireland should put 50 points on them.

I could see you shocking the rugby world for sure. May even drag out that great great great great grandmother from county Tipperary for the 80mins of the match... (fortunately for you guys my lineage is false... bit like 90% of St. Patrick day celebrators drinking guinness, wearing fake ginger beards and green hats).

Coetzee likes bulk though. His Stormers pack were about 930kgs usually... sometimes even over 940kgs.

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:The more I see it the more I think the first test in Cape Town is such a bogey match.

Totally agree, Ireland should put 50 points on them.

I could see you shocking the rugby world for sure.

Err you realize I was joking right?

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:The more I see it the more I think the first test in Cape Town is such a bogey match.

Totally agree, Ireland should put 50 points on them.

I could see you shocking the rugby world for sure.

Err you realize I was joking right?

yeah but still think you can shock them with even a 15 point win in the first game given the team. The boks will hardly have 1/2 of the survivors of the RWC SF due to retirements, they'll have no tune up games, are missing guys like Bissie, Vermeulen to top14 matches and haven't been exactly kicking it in SR... without even getting to the new coach and "progressive" direction dictated to by the government.

You weren't that bad in the tournament. The more I look at it the more I see you having a chance and crap weather and no altitude certainly improves your odds. The boks may even go with newby halfbacks.

brennomac wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Expected squad for SA

Madigan and McCloskey are out, Olding is in, no Gilroy and both Kearneys in

Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald.

Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall.

Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Paddy Jackson.

Rory Best, Richardt Strauss, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham

Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Donnacha Ryan, Ultan Dillane.

CJ Stander, Rhys Ruddock, Jamie Heaslip, Jordi Murphy, Tommy O’Donnell, Chris Henry

Well if that is the squad it's clear that form counts for nothing.  I'm not saying that the squad should be loaded with Connacht players but 4 out of a squad of 33 while Leinster get 16 is no reflection on how this season has gone for the Irish provinces.  Both Kearneys have done nothing to warrant selection ahead of O'Halloran and Healy (and while there are questions about Healy's defence he showed up well in defence in the two Glasgow games). Luke Fitz - an injury waiting to happen. And Jordi Murphy while he might have improved a bit in the last couple of games has had a very poor season, Henry has done some great stuff for Ireland in the past but this hasn't been a great season for him. Eoin McKeon has as good a case to be in the squad as Murohy or Henry.

Terrible pity that Denis Buckley is injured but even if he was fit would Schmidt have picked him ahead of Kilcoyne, a useless scrummager we're apparently going to put up against the likes of Jannie du Plessis.  Somehow can see Bealham's ability to play both sides of the front row as being very important on this tour as Kilcoyne gets murdered in the scrum and becomes a penalty machine for the Saffers.  Would love to see Dillane and Henderson up against Etzebeth and de Jager in the 2R but imagine Toner will be a definite starter if only for his line out ability (at least until Cronin comes on does his usual).

Have to say I find it hard to be very positive about this tour - hope I'm wrong - but we're going to need big physical performances and take on the Saffers up front.  Don't see many tries coming from that back line.  

Give it a rest on Kilcoyne and his scrummaging. He has not given away a penalty in his last two games (v. Scarlets & Edinburgh). Edinburgh had William Nel at TH. I note that Denis Buckley gave away 2 penalties v. Edinburgh with John Andress at TH!

Sexton hasn't been in great form at all for the last number of seasons.  One off games where he might have risen his game up a little but, largely, he's been a no-show in International terms - not good enough to matter in results anyway.

Now that either lingers on for another season, where Schmidt has to seriously begin to rethink who his conductor is on the field - or - he begins to slide slowly back into better form.

Against Ulster, I saw glimmers of a man finding nerve again, and finding a wonderful selection of kicks to frustrate Ulster with - and that was difficult to do after the year Leinster have had.

Ulster isn't South Africa.... we know, we know, let no eejit remind me - but kicking is kicking and it was more so the attitude Sexton had - calm and meticulous and precision.

He never settled at Racing.  It disrupted his game.  And he'd admit himself that it's taken him a while to get back into a 'Leinster' mood - he's said he thought it would be like old times but it wasn't.  Yet I think deep down, he's a much happier bunny now - he's amongst pals and perhaps it's beginning to show in his 'tentative' return to some kind of better playing form.

Schmidt can't do a whole hell of a lot without Sexton on top of his game.  So it would be a bonus of hope if he is emerging out of his slump.  Plus a new defence coach where once Schmidt was alone in attack and defence.

Yeah..... there is hope something might happen in at least one of those games.

I don't know many flyhalves who do well when their pack is being smashed to bits. Dan Carter would only be seen as a decent player had NZ's pack not added 4 inches of steel into their side from the Spencer days when Mitchell promoted the "prototype 6'3 16st multiskilled forward" where they would get beaten up upfront.
Perhaps that is why Sexton has gone off the boil a bit... as well as not having as many top players around him like he did 5 years ago.

fa0019 wrote:Perhaps that is why Sexton has gone off the boil a bit... as well as not having as many top players around him like he did 5 years ago.

I think that is a very good point.

Jonny is very good at what he does but he is limited. Jonny Wilkinson was the same, it wasn't until he went to Toulon that he found the form he had in his 2001-2003 years sandwiched between Dawson and Greenwood and behind a dominant pack.

Same with JS. He's trying too hard in a side surrounded by less experienced players than he was in the past. I thought he had a great game against Ulster though.

fa0019 wrote:I don't know many flyhalves who do well when their pack is being smashed to bits. Dan Carter would only be seen as a decent player had NZ's pack not added 4 inches of steel into their side from the Spencer days when Mitchell promoted the "prototype 6'3 16st multiskilled forward" where they would get beaten up upfront.
Perhaps that is why Sexton has gone off the boil a bit... as well as not having as many top players around him like he did 5 years ago.

Partially...

but no, I don't think that would be most of the answer. He made a personal mistake going to Racing. Moving away didn't suit his personality. And yeah, perhaps the intensity of that League didn't suit him either.

Plus..................... (oh Sin is gonna kill me!!! ) he does love a sharp 9 by his side. He's a different beast when the 9 is on fire. Again, that kinda 9 might be considered suicidal against SA - but I think either Murray must quicken up his game or Ireland must introduce a quick-fire 9 earlier in a second half.

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I don't know many flyhalves who do well when their pack is being smashed to bits. Dan Carter would only be seen as a decent player had NZ's pack not added 4 inches of steel into their side from the Spencer days when Mitchell promoted the "prototype 6'3 16st multiskilled forward" where they would get beaten up upfront.
Perhaps that is why Sexton has gone off the boil a bit... as well as not having as many top players around him like he did 5 years ago.

Partially...

but no, I don't think that would be most of the answer.  He made a personal mistake going to Racing.  Moving away didn't suit his personality.  And yeah, perhaps the intensity of that League didn't suit him either.

Plus..................... (oh Sin is gonna kill me!!! )  he does love a sharp 9 by his side.  He's a different beast when the 9 is on fire.  Again, that kinda 9 might be considered suicidal against SA - but I think either Murray must quicken up his game or Ireland must introduce a quick-fire 9 earlier in a second half.

Actually I think Murray is well suited to playing the boks. Big guy, likes contact. Newlands isn't a big pitch. so a whispy 9 doesn't always get the space required. With the weather I reckon it will be who kicks best in the conditions.

Murray doodles though, which is not good when looking to create a rhythm.  
He's big and robust and pulls off a few tries of his own in close - but against a team full of big guys eating up any tiny morsels of space.... you need speed of delivery much more than solid methodical recycling.  All you are doing is recycling into beef and looking for injuries.

In order for Ireland to step away from ploddingly slow rugby, they need Murray to get a move on and try to give those half-second advantages in claiming space.  If he's unable to sustain a step-up of pace, then Schmidt has to seriously look at things.  That's where we're being got at.  We're off the tempo of Modern Rugby.

SecretFly wrote:Murray doodles though, which is not good when looking to create a rhythm.  
He's big and robust and pulls off a few tries of his own in close - but against a team full of big guys eating up any tiny morsels of space.... you need speed of delivery much more than solid methodical recycling.  All you are doing is recycling into beef and looking for injuries.

In order for Ireland to step away from ploddingly slow rugby, they need Murray to get a move on and try to give those half-second advantages in claiming space.  If he's unable to sustain a step-up of pace, then Schmidt has to seriously look at things.  That's where we're being got at.  We're off the tempo of Modern Rugby.

Do you have the backline anymore to exploit such pace of attack?

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Murray doodles though, which is not good when looking to create a rhythm.  
He's big and robust and pulls off a few tries of his own in close - but against a team full of big guys eating up any tiny morsels of space.... you need speed of delivery much more than solid methodical recycling.  All you are doing is recycling into beef and looking for injuries.

In order for Ireland to step away from ploddingly slow rugby, they need Murray to get a move on and try to give those half-second advantages in claiming space.  If he's unable to sustain a step-up of pace, then Schmidt has to seriously look at things.  That's where we're being got at.  We're off the tempo of Modern Rugby.

Do you have the backline anymore to exploit such pace of attack?

Absolutely - if anything we have more players suited to this style of rugby more than ever. I fear that a few of these players will be left at home, though. Especially out wide (Gilroy, Healy).

Niyi....................

Would be interesting if McCloskey is dropped for Olding.

I rate Olding as the more talented player, and the more complete player, plus he can cover more positions- but there's no way he's going for Olding to start at 12 against the Boks which means Henshaw is guaranteed. Olding is going because of his utility and his potential impact off the bench.

My concern is it's a Paddy Wallace in NZ situation, meaning the man best suited to cover 12 if our first choice 12 gets injured is a long-haul flight away. Henshaw doesn't cut those beautiful lines we see from Olding or Marshall at 12 for Ireland, but nobody will in that 12 shirt including Olding and Marshall. We want our 12 to run hard and straight in most games and you'd worry about only bringing one player who's really suited to that.

We did show we can give our centres much more freedom to play in our last two games, but if we're struggling for possession thats not going to happen.

All in all, it seems like a strange one if true.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Murray doodles though, which is not good when looking to create a rhythm.  
He's big and robust and pulls off a few tries of his own in close - but against a team full of big guys eating up any tiny morsels of space.... you need speed of delivery much more than solid methodical recycling.  All you are doing is recycling into beef and looking for injuries.

In order for Ireland to step away from ploddingly slow rugby, they need Murray to get a move on and try to give those half-second advantages in claiming space.  If he's unable to sustain a step-up of pace, then Schmidt has to seriously look at things.  That's where we're being got at.  We're off the tempo of Modern Rugby.

Do you have the backline anymore to exploit such pace of attack?

Absolutely - if anything we have more players suited to this style of rugby more than ever. I fear that a few of these players will be left at home, though. Especially out wide (Gilroy, Healy).

Certainly Olding would be a player who can make goo decisions and execute difficult skills at pace, but it's hard to see us picking him.

SecretFly wrote:Niyi....................

Bundi!

I see D'arcy agrees with my assessment of Irish rugby - the uber-underrated-in-Ireland Teo and deservedly-lauded Bundiaki are the only backs in Ireland who can offload the ball and draw defenders at the same time apparently.

Actually I'd add McCloskey but to be honest he hasn't had a great second half of the season, albeit playing behind an average Ulster pack.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Niyi....................

Bundi!

I see D'arcy agrees with my assessment of Irish rugby - the uber-underrated-in-Ireland Teo and deservedly-lauded Bundiaki are the only backs in Ireland who can offload the ball and draw defenders at the same time apparently.

Actually I'd add McCloskey but to be honest he hasn't had a great second half of the season, albeit playing behind an average Ulster pack.

Joe would put a stop to such nonsense!  

Never heard the like of it.... drawing defenders to offload???

Tripe!


On D'arcy...how interesting.  Last night he annoyed the hell outta me, and I don't genuinely get annoyed that often.  
I wrote a longish piece to put in here just after listening to him but then scrapped the idea.  Who cares - nobody seems to really give a schidt no more, so why should I.

Perhaps it was nerves that was at him - his first outing in an official 'pundit' capacity but in the space of about two minutes, when they were discussing European rugby in relation to the growth and growth of French club rugby, he easily and casually contradicted himself when trying to articulate how Irish rugby should try to cope.

At one moment he said Irish International shouldn't be so precious about where they collect their Internationals from - and mentioned the RFU Championship and the French Pro D2!!!  Oh nice for us.... scraps  
Then when pushed a second time on the same topic, he turned around to say Irish rugby should protect itself as best it can by continuing to insist that most players chosen for International should play in Ireland with Provinces.

Having two opinions that clash on such a serious topic for Irish Rugby suggests to me he doesn't really give a damn either way...just talking to appear like he does.  

Let's hoist the white flag and mimic Irish football, support Saracens and Toulon, and accept a bundle of 2nd division fodder to play International for us.

SecretFly wrote:
Let's hoist the white flag and mimic Irish football, support Saracens and Toulon, and accept a bundle of 2nd division fodder to play International for us.

OK but can I support Racing?

I'll get in contact with their fan club this instant rodders to sign you up

I look forward to seeing you on the Top14 threads. I'll be with Clermont - for nostalgia's sake.

In seriousness though I think the end is nigh for the International section of the board.

The days of the Union are over and with it the pro12 nations and Sanzar are finished.

The era of the Top14 and PRL has arrived.

rodders wrote:In seriousness though I think the end is nigh for the International section of the board.

The days of the Union are over and with it the pro12 nations and Sanzar are finished.

The era of the Top14 and PRL has arrived.

Lord I hope the rugby in the future will be better than half the garbage sprouted out in both of those competitions. Likely to inspire millions of kids around the world into football, cricket, washing their dad's car, staring out the window and doing their homework.

Ireland Squad for 2016 Summer Tour of South Africa

Forwards (18)

Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) (c)
Sean Cronin (St Marys/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) (vc)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Jack McGrath (St Marys/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean Reidy (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Rhys Ruddock (St Marys/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Backs (14)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Stuart Olding (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

*uncapped

Players unavailable for selection include Cian Healy, Denis Buckley, Nathan White, Josh van der Flier, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Conway and Simon Zebo.

Oooohhhh... some interesting stuff there.

Really?

rodders wrote:Really?

Reidy? Roux? And I wouldn't have been shocked to see Schmidt clinging onto Madigan like grim death.

Really feel for McCloskey. The lad’s hard done by. However, we have no less than four centres – Olding, Marshall, Henshaw and Payne in the squad. While I think that Olding is a special player, on the basis of work done this season, I’d have Big Stu rather than Wee Stu. Hopefully, that means we might see Payne or Henshaw at fullback.

Delighted for Reidy, but not sure he’s at the level of the other backrowers. Is Tommy O’Donnell injured? I thought Henry was playing himself into some real form at the end of the season as well, although I could understand that it is too little, too late.

Trimble looked decisive but slow last time he played in green. But Dave Kearney is the biggest question mark in the backline. Gilroy, Healy and Scholes have all had better seasons, albeit Scholes is off.

Surprised by Roux (might Henderson feature at blindside with four other second rows going?) and Murphy. Honestly glad to see we've moved on from Madigan.

Outside of Olding there's not much to be excited about there. Can't see this series going well.