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Showtime unveils spring/summer boxing schedule featuring Leo Santa Cruz vs. Carl Frampton

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Post by hazharrison Fri Mar 11 2016, 19:37

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-leo-santa-cruz-carl-frampton-showtime-boxing-20160311-story.html

Looks like California or L.A.

That's a really great fight. Can't wait!

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Post by AdamT Fri Mar 11 2016, 19:44

Wow!

This is great news.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Fri Mar 11 2016, 20:20

Kudos for Frampton for taking this if true (big IF still verbal agreement means nothing to me untill its signed), the fight with Quigg may not have been a hard one but a 13 week camp is gruelling and doing it all against against (imo) a more dangerous fighter in LSC is a gutsy move

I was a bit suspect of LSC but since the Terrazas fight i think much more highly of him. Yes his head mocvement is poor, yes his defence is porous and yes he can be outboxed........but my word is it hard to keep him off of you.

He's been compared to Margarito/Rios by some and while I see the similarities I think that's a huge injustice to him. He holds his guard very well blocking lots of shots and makes subtle moves that allow him to open up defences. And his engine is second to none in boxcing atm.

I was impressed by framptons early movement against quigg, but it worried me how he seemed to lose quite a bit of juice going into the 2nd half of the fight despite not really taking many shots from quigg. LSC will get to frampton early adn if he can get to that mid section enough then he will tire Carl out even more and he wont back down once he has him going

Gutsy move that could, and imo will, haunt him as I feel that Leo has too much energy and throws too many punches for him not to put Carl in a lot of trouble in the 2nd half of the fight
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 20:25

Frampton is the far better boxer of the two, all LSC has going for him is his engine, aside from Mares he hasn't really fought anyone worthwhile however rounds 8-11 against Quigg give me cause for concern.

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Post by AdamT Fri Mar 11 2016, 20:28

It's a tough fight to call.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Fri Mar 11 2016, 20:35

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Frampton is the far better boxer of the two, all LSC has going for him is his engine, aside from Mares he hasn't really fought anyone worthwhile however rounds 8-11 against Quigg give me cause for concern.

Well who has Carl beat apart from Quigg and Martinez? Mares has proven himself at world level far more than Quigg Leo definitely has the best win on either resume

Also engine is a good thing to have going for you......especially if the opposing guy doesn't have the best stamina
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 20:46

It's hard to forget Mares being wiped out by Gonzalez and he's done nothing since to suggest he's still a world level operator, his next fight with Cuellar will give us some indication. You are right that Frampton hasn't fought too many world level opponents but Quigg, Martinez and Molitor were all 'champions' of some sort at 122lbs. LSC is a name we're told to rate without having ever done much to prove it.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Fri Mar 11 2016, 21:28

He got wiped out by a puncher not out classed, he got caught cold and couldn't recover, it happens but he's returned with wins since LSC

He also has a lot of good wins his return fights (Since Gonzales) alone are probably on par with the dross Quigg fought before Carl let alone the top fighters Mares fiught before the Gonzales fight
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 21:32

Mares hasn't fought since the LSC fight nor had he fought anyone approaching world level since the Gonzalez fight. I'm not disputing that he fought top fighters but we're going back some 3/4 years since he's had a win of any note.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Fri Mar 11 2016, 21:40

It's only been 7 odd months and a gruelling fight, who's he supposed to beat in that time

Fact is Abner Mares was at least world class and proven at one point in his career (maybe still), something we can't say about quigg and we are now assume that Mares is past it (no evidence) because he's taken a break for not even a year

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 21:46

I'm assuming nothing but i've not seen anything from Mares to suggest he's a world level featherweight, he lacked genuine power lower than that so the move up was always going to prove tricky plus he's quite short at the weight like Frampton. Mares' best performances truth be told came at Bantamweight, his fights above that with Moreno and Morel were horrendous affairs.

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Post by Kareem61 Fri Mar 11 2016, 21:56

Easy win for LSC.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:21

I never thought Mares was the best FW. Relied on his size down at Bantam and hasn't carried it up all that well. It was a solid win, but one I fully expected LSC to win and would have been very surprised had he not done so. Quigg and Frampton both beat Mares for me, also.

Have you seen the rest of the fights Showtime have announced. Wonderful.

We have Wilder Vs Povetkin

Thurman Vs Porter

Leo Santa Cruz Vs Frampton

Badou Jack Vs Lucian Bute

Degale Vs Medina (Medina is the guy that iced Jleon Love in 3, he's not bad)

Couple of other I forget that were good too.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:23

Oh yeah. They're showing Joshua Vs Martin, also Ruslan Provodnikov Vs John Molina, Jesus CHRIST that is a war and a half.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:24

There's only two worthwhile fights there Alex; LSC vs Frampton and Thurman vs Porter, the rest are nothing fights, the only interest in the Wilder fight is to see how early Povetkin takes him out.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:29

Just to also let you know, apparently Victor Ortiz Vs Andre Berto rematch is going to be signed for April 30th, tiny bit too late for me this one, struggles to get me excited, both are pretty done as top flight opponents despite Berto getting the Floyd call (and losing every second of it). Really not sure who I favour, I guess Berto as he has been more active fighting a stronger level. Will be on a PBC on Fox show apparently.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:31

Nah I'm very interested!! Plus. The winner of Bute Vs Jack and Degale Vs Medina will be set to face each other next in a unification. But then again. You are more of a grumpy bum than me Hammer :P

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:36

A few moderately interesting fights doesn't cover up that the PBC boxers don't take on the top challengers; Porter against Thurman is interesting but the fights we want to see at Welterweight are between Bradley, Brook, Khan and Thurman. Again LSC against Frampton is decent but there's Lomachenko, Selby and Russell Jnr he should be facing instead.

Jack and Degale should be fighting eachother not a has been and a never will be, Provodnikov facing the remains of Molina isn't exactly an exciting prospect either.

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Post by jimdig Fri Mar 11 2016, 22:41

I thought provodnikov was fighting Crawford next.

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Post by RanjitPatel Fri Mar 11 2016, 23:15

LSC is miles better than Rios. Showed he can box going backwards against Mares for a start. Seems he's surprised a few people who might have had him down as just a swarmer. He's better than that.

I think he stops Carl. Frampton is capable of outboxing him although I believe LSC will wear him down at a pace that makes Frampton really uncomfortable. I thought Frampton would outbox and beat Quigg but this is a different level for me.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 23:22

Frampton and LSC shouldn't bother fighting each other, should just go for Loma, get off your high horse Hammersmith, God. It's a good fight against two of the top fighters. We can look at whatever after, PBC fighters not fighting the best, look at boxing full stop! Canelo should have taken on GGG by now, it's like some "fans" can't enjoy anything we do get andoan about what else we want, when the fights on the table are nothing to be sniffed at.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Mar 11 2016, 23:23

jimdig wrote:I thought provodnikov was fighting Crawford next.

Provs name got put against everyone actually. Cotto, Crawford and a few others, this is a winnable fight for him, plus one that should have fireworks!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Fri Mar 11 2016, 23:58

AlexHuckerby wrote:Frampton and LSC shouldn't bother fighting each other, should just go for Loma, get off your high horse Hammersmith, God. It's a good fight against two of the top fighters. We can look at whatever after, PBC fighters not fighting the best, look at boxing full stop! Canelo should have taken on GGG by now, it's like some "fans" can't enjoy anything we do get andoan about what else we want, when the fights on the table are nothing to be sniffed at.

So two decent fights and we should ignore that PBC fighters don't fight the best around, it's a good fight but ultimately who cares when neither went near Rigondeaux and yes they should go for Lomachenko. The best should want to fight the best and that does include Alvarez fighting GGG, his fight with Khan is a joke just like Jack fighting Bute is, just like Degale fighting a nobody is. These are fights between names that mean bugger all.

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Post by catchweight Sat Mar 12 2016, 10:32

Frampton v Santa Cruz is a cracking fight

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Post by Herman Jaeger Sat Mar 12 2016, 12:59

You can't believe what you read on here sometimes, so now people on here saying Santa Cruz/Frampton is merely a decent fight. I don't get it, that's a top fight in my book.

This is two of the big guns facing off this is all the fans ever want can't see how this can be called only merely a decent fight.


This  is what should be happening more often , the big guns facing off. It doesn't happen often enough these days and it's what fans complain about the most.


When you have a pool of talent(in this case Loma, Selby, Russell jr, Frampton, Quigg, Donaire, Santa,) surely promoters need to realise there's more money in them all fighting each other. Promoters so often miss the boat protecting an 'o' or a winning sequence and kill the excitement for the fans. When two great fighters meet someone has to lose and fans realise that. They're not going to turn on a fighter just for losing. They turn on a fighter when he's seen to avoid his challenges.

All the above good close fights(at least on paper) the losing fighter can come out with a lot of credit in a great losing performance in a great fight see what I mean. Move onto the next one with the last fight still fresh in the memory,  lots more fights, lots more excitement for the fans, lots more money all round. Promoters too cagey.

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Post by jimdig Sat Mar 12 2016, 13:09

catchweight wrote:Frampton v Santa Cruz is a cracking fight

Agreed 100%.

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Post by mobilemaster8 Sat Mar 12 2016, 18:26

Great line up. Predictions?

Fampton Points....wouldn't be surprised to see it being a close close fight with LSC pulling back most if not all of the rounds after 7-8 maybe even a dramatic late stoppage if Carl is stupid. Brilliant fight.

Wilder KO - Think he will catch Povetkin. He showed a disciplined game against Stiverne and whilst he looks amateur at times and gets caught, it only takes one punch. I see something similar to Browne the other nigh, getting beat, getting hurt maybe knocked down, but will land that Hail Mary. Povetkin will crumble in Russia under his power. (Based on my predictions recently, that probably ends with Wilder knocked cold In 2 rounds)

Porter UD - hard worker, thurman has a punchers chance but never been impressed with him. Good fighter good power but if Collazo can stun you and chase you then porter will cause you some major problems.

Jack vs Bute is a rather hard call. Good fight from Jack against Groves looked very sharp and actually surprised me a hell of a lot as I predicted a Groves KO handily. Bute showed he had a little bit left with de gale in an exciting scrap but I'm going Jack on a UD similar to De Gale but less action.

De Gale UD standard nights works will just outbox medina all night. De Gale vs Jack will be a good scrap.

Probably missed a few, but also have GGG back this year chasing Alvarez. Khan stepping up a division, Brook will hopefully fight a bug name and if the summer after Bizier, Joshua will batter Martin. Wladamir vs Fury 2? Hopefully it's a hell of a lot better. Haye coming back.

What about Bradley vs Pacman?

I'm actually looking forward to Algieri vs Spence. That's a good fight in my eyes, I massively rate Spence and I like Chris, seems a nice guy and takes his craft seriously and whilst he may not be a superstar as such, to withstand such a hammering off Prov and to stay in there is commendable. Battered by pac but showed great heart and wasn't that bad at all vs Khan who is a very good "boxer".

Looking forward to this year in general including Matthews vs Flanagan later.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sat Mar 12 2016, 21:36

Bradley Pacquiao is hbo I think

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Post by milkyboy Sun Mar 13 2016, 09:13

Cracking fight. All about what the extra pounds do for frampton.. Especially his stamina, because it will be sorely tested. A year ago I really liked frampton for this, my opinion of lsc has gone up since then and my opinion of frampton has gone down. Looking slick is one thing but he was out worked and outlanded by quigg when quigg got on the front foot. Lsc is better than quigg and won't wait 7 rounds to start throwing.

lsc favourite for me.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sun Mar 13 2016, 10:36

Reading this thread confirms that no matter what some boxing fans will never be happy, cracking fights cannot wait

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Post by Baby faced assassin Sun Mar 13 2016, 15:53

Ok so predictions

LSC Ud over Frampton, can't see frampton being 6-0 up after 6, maybe 4-2 but if he fades like he does like he did against Quigg can see LSC really punishing him in the later rounds maybe not stopping him but pulling through to a UD maybe SD for those who like framptons defence

Povetkin KO Wilder, since Stiverne wilder hasn't looked good and Povetkin has both power and a good chin think he can get to wilde r before wilders power wears Povetkin down

Thurman UD porter, I like both but Thurman is the slightly better technician porter is a rough houser but if he can't impose himself physically ( like the brook fight ) then he struggles and can't see Thurman letting him have enough to win enough rounds

Jack UD, but did ok against Degale but that's about as good as he can do and Jack, while unspectacular, is a solid pro and has enough in his arsenal to beat but over the distance
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Post by huw Mon Mar 14 2016, 08:39

Thought the winner of Frampton vs Quigg was supposed to defend against Rigondeaux.....

LSC fight is a good one but I really want to see how these fighters will get on against the best in the division, Frampton is the champion he should prove it.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon Mar 14 2016, 12:27

It only applied to the WBA strap Framton holds, if he is fighting LSC he will move up and vacate the straps he has at the moment

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon Mar 14 2016, 13:39

Can the IBF give him permission to fight Santa Cruz first before he defends against Wake?

Seeing as Carl is more suited to 22, he should only go up for one fight, a money fight.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:20

wheelchair1991 wrote:Reading this thread confirms that no matter what some boxing fans will never be happy, cracking fights cannot wait

Exactly my thoughts, some people can't be happy no matter what, because it seems to some people there is only one fight in each division worth watching, everything else is pointless.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:22

I just feel it's about time LSC actually fought somebody his own size instead of constantly fighting smaller men moving up but then again he probably knows that Lomachenko and Russell Jnr make him look a bit silly.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:25

What is wrong with LSC and Frampton facing each other before facing any of those guys. Plus, LSC is Haymon would be surprised if he went and fought on HBO against Loma.

Provodnikov going to Showtime is a good thing I think, didn't want to see Prov against Crawford, rather see him against guys more his level, means Arum may be forced into Postol against Crawford, something he clearly didn't want to do as he doesn't have many stars around the weight.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:29

Lets all congratulate Frampton on ducking Rigondeaux, that's exactly what we want as boxing fans isn't it, the best being avoided because they're a bit too good. Lets ignore that LSC has never fought anybody his own size and is fighting yet another guy moving up but because they're fan favourites don't worry about it we'll focus on Alvarez not fighting GGG. Anyone that is happy with this fight can no longer moan about certain boxers being ducked as they are part of the problem.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:41

If you would rather spend money watching Frampton vs Rigo then feel free, but myself and the majority of boxing fans would much rather watch LSC vs Carl
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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:43

Rigondeaux isn't being avoided because he's too good. Everybody would be avoiding Floyd for years, but everyone wanted to fight him, Frampton isn't fighting him because he doesn't bring enough money in for the risk of the fight. I'm not part of the problem for recognising and understanding this, it's just the way boxing simply works. If Rigondeaux was as good as he is and brought in a lot of money the fight would be made at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately, these guys want to be in big fights but they also want to be paid big money for these big fights, LSC and Frampton makes more financial sense the Frampton against Rigondeaux. LSC moved up to face Mares, though in my view Mares is a smaller FW, so I take your point. I feel like there needs to be some sort of solution to the problem but money talks, however. In this instance, we aren't getting the best two in the division fighting each other, we are getting two of the best, who have more attractive styles and will probably be a more exciting fight, so the trade off doesn't hurt as much. Only hardcore fans want to see Frampton Rigo, if everyone else did it would happen. Way it is really.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:45

How I actually feel too, no doubt I'd take Frampton against Rigo anyday, but offer me the choice of seeing Frampton Rigo or Frampton LSC I'd pretty unashamedly pick Frampton LSC, as an actual fight, that sounds far more attractive to me

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:45

It's ok then for Alvarez to not fight GGG then I presume?

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Post by Rowley Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:47

In the run up to the Quigg fight Barry Mcguigan spoke about the Rigo fight in one of the magazines. Said if it was down to Frampton he would take the fight next but Barry preferred LSC, simply a question of money. Factor in what Rigo wants paying against what the fight actually generates (poor PPV following in America, poor ticket sales, zero name recognition over here) and you end up with a situation where Frampton is taking on about the toughest fighter in and around his division for absolutely peanuts.

As Barry says Rigo is the legacy fight, but as manager his job is to worry about Carl's bank balance rather than his legacy. Whether this real world thinking appeals to the idealist in us is largely by the bye, harsh economic realities will always tend to supersede such concerns.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:50

Rigo literally can't get on HBO anymore. A P4P top fighter and one of the biggest networks won't have him on. Why do we think he took a Jazza Dickens fight on BoxNation? He can't get anything else.

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Post by catchweight Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:53

Hammersmith arguing for the sake of arguing again methinks. I remember him justifying Stevenson swerving Kovalev because he was getting better paid to avoid him.

Frampton v LSC is cracking 50/50 fight with the potential to be explosive

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:54

Rowley wrote:In the run up to the Quigg fight Barry Mcguigan spoke about the Rigo fight in one of the magazines. Said if it was down to Frampton he would take the fight next but Barry preferred LSC, simply a question of money. Factor in what Rigo wants paying against what the fight actually generates (poor PPV following in America, poor ticket sales, zero name recognition over here) and you end up with a situation where Frampton is taking on about the toughest fighter in and around his division for absolutely peanuts.

As Barry says Rigo is the legacy fight, but as manager his job is to worry about Carl's bank balance rather than his legacy. Whether this real world thinking appeals to the idealist in us is largely by the bye, harsh economic realities will always tend to supersede such concerns.

Best remember that when you go on one of your usual rant about Johnny foreigner avoiding somebody...(I remember your Floyd rants)

Hypocrisy on here is hilarious............The same people slagging off Mayweather for years say it's okay for Frampo to dodge for money...

What a joke !!

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:56

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's ok then for Alvarez to not fight GGG then I presume?

Yes because I think that's the biggest and most attractive fight available and would probably do more PPV buys than the Khan fight. The Khan fight is also a real soft touch, a guy who started as a LW and is generally seen as a small WW coming up against one of the biggest LMws I've ever seen, who is a good sized MW anyway. Big difference in my book.

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Post by Rowley Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:57

I am not sure I have said it is OK Truss, have merely put forward McGuigan's explanation for it. Pretty sure I did not offer a personal opinion. See your break from the board has not been spent working on your powers of comprehension.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:59

catchweight wrote:Hammersmith arguing for the sake of arguing again methinks. I remember him justifying Stevenson swerving Kovalev because he was getting better paid to avoid him.

Frampton v LSC is cracking 50/50 fight with the potential to be explosive

Might want to get your facts straight before starting that crap again, I justify Stevenson ducking Kovalev because he's racist.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon Mar 14 2016, 19:59

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:In the run up to the Quigg fight Barry Mcguigan spoke about the Rigo fight in one of the magazines. Said if it was down to Frampton he would take the fight next but Barry preferred LSC, simply a question of money. Factor in what Rigo wants paying against what the fight actually generates (poor PPV following in America, poor ticket sales, zero name recognition over here) and you end up with a situation where Frampton is taking on about the toughest fighter in and around his division for absolutely peanuts.

As Barry says Rigo is the legacy fight, but as manager his job is to worry about Carl's bank balance rather than his legacy. Whether this real world thinking appeals to the idealist in us is largely by the bye, harsh economic realities will always tend to supersede such concerns.

Best remember that when you go on one of your usual rant about Johnny foreigner avoiding somebody...(I remember your Floyd rants)

Hypocrisy on here is hilarious............The same people slagging off Mayweather for years say it's okay for Frampo to dodge for money...

What a joke !!

I think the general feeling is that Floyd would make so much money for fighting anyone and that he calls himself "The Best Ever" you would expect the opponents to be the best possible options. For the record I think as a whole Floyd's career is simply outstanding, however.

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