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Khan by decision !!!

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Knowsit17
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Khan by decision !!! - Page 3 Empty Khan by decision !!!

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 04 May 2016, 7:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Won't be on here again before the fight so here it is...

1. Khan is like a poor man's Tommy..The only way you beat him is by burying him with a shot.....Canelo for me is more of an accumulator like JCC..

2. Not sure about Canelo's gifts as a pressure fighter...

3. Khan like Leonard v Hagler has the skills to mess him about and frustrate him...Beat him to the punch and dissuade his advances !!.

4. Fancy an upset here....Khan wins the early rounds and spoils late he can do it...Of course he could get shafted...But a moral victory would be a victory for team Khan profile wise..

5. If Khan gets blown out.....Forget I ever wrote this thread..

Khan W 12..

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Sun 08 May 2016, 3:30 pm

The other egotistical idiot David Haye posted that Khan was and I quote "going to solidify his place in boxing history"

I must have missed that bit.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 3:41 pm

Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 4:02 pm

He has won two world titles...Maidana..Alexander...Kotelnik...Paulie..

Not overrated he is a quality fighter..


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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:09 pm

You Said he was a Brit great. I disagree.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:11 pm

Steve Collins won two world titles. Doesn't make him great. Though I rate him higher than Con.

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Post by catchweight Sun 08 May 2016, 4:12 pm

Hatton was probably more overrated than Khan to be honest

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Sun 08 May 2016, 4:12 pm

Who do you put Khan ahead of truss?

Hatton?
Froch?

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:13 pm

I still can't believe you picked him to win. You have slagged my knowledge among others. Stevie wonder could see Khan getting stopped.

Doesn't take mystic Meg. Easiest prediction of the year.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:15 pm

Hatton was not. He was overrated, but he would destroy Khan.

Fast feet, good at cutting of the ring. Good inside fighter, with a lethal body attack. Good chin in his peak and very fit.

Hatton would of killed Khan.

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Post by catchweight Sun 08 May 2016, 4:22 pm

I doubt it. He might have beat Khan but not an easy fight for him. Khan would fare better than Hatton against alternative opponents. Different strenghts and weaknesses.

Hatton was knocked out by Mayweather (no mean feat givien Mayweathers KO ratio at welterweight) and wobbled all the place by Collazo. Htton would not have even have made 6 rounds against Alvarez. In fact probably not even 3 rounds.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 4:27 pm

How do you know....Hatton would probably have ducked him like Witter.

He's lost to Canelo....Two weights above....

Bit like Curry losing to Nunn..

Any excuse to knock the kid...

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:30 pm

Wasn't two weights though, was it??

155 isn't 160. Sure Khans ducking Witter. Only fought Canelo for a payday and knows his stock won't drop, because everyone with sense backed Canelo.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:31 pm

Meant Khan ducking Brook.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 4:37 pm

How many British fighters have won two world titles in the last 25 years ??..Maybe eight or nine ??

Maidana...Alexander...Paulie...Kotelnik.. Algieri.. European champion McClosky...

That's a good record....Give him credit for it..

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 4:43 pm

Give GGG some.

I don't rate Khan. Just my opinion. I also don't like him.

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Post by hazharrison Sun 08 May 2016, 5:16 pm

Khan's a good fighter but his paper titles don't make him great. He's never remotely threatened to become a real champion at any of the divisions he's campaigned in. His best spell came while working with suspicious "conditioner" Alex Ariza (ditto Pacquiao).

Hatton, Calzaghe - even Haye - were all what we used to term "champions."

Last night epitomised him as a fighter: skilled, good boxer, prone to mistakes, weak chin.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sun 08 May 2016, 5:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He has won two world titles...Maidana..Alexander...Kotelnik...Paulie..

Not overrated he is a quality fighter..


He's been good but certainly not great. At least three of his opponents you've named (Kotelnik, Paulie and Alexander) would fall into exactly the same category: handy fighters who were never remotely the cream of their division.

Like I said, Khan has speed to burn but he's always lacked two essential qualities: endurance and shot-avoidance. You need at least one of those to make the transition from good to great in most people's minds.

He has one or two decent results on his record while having used bigger names he never looked likely to fight (Mayweather; Pacquiao) to boost his public profile in the US. I believe this is part of the source of people's opinions on Khan being overrated. Put him in with a great or quasi-great name and he'll get routinely put away. Hence the best people see Khan doing from now on is labouring through faded champs (Julio Diaz) and fringe contenders (Algieri) which is a far cry from the promise people witnessed in Athens 2004.

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Post by milkyboy Sun 08 May 2016, 5:49 pm

AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sun 08 May 2016, 5:54 pm

milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

In fairness to Hatton, getting sparked by Pacman looks far better on one's resume than getting sparked by Breidis Prescott.
Not sure Hatton would have dropped a decision to the exceptionally ordinary Lamont Peterson either.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 5:57 pm

Who did Khan beat in their prime? Maidana got better after that fight.

I just think Hatton's style beats Khan. Khan is faster, but Hatton was no slouch in footwork.

I like how you mention semi retired Tsyu.

Barrera?
Judah?
Alexnder?

Perhaps Paulie??

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Post by hampo17 Sun 08 May 2016, 5:57 pm

Neither would Khan if the ref hadn't ignored the second down because of his poor positioning.

People do seem to go over the top about Khan, while letting other fighters get away with murder.

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Post by hampo17 Sun 08 May 2016, 6:00 pm

AdamT wrote:Who did Khan beat in their prime? Maidana got better after that fight.

I just think Hatton's style beats Khan. Khan is faster, but Hatton was no slouch in footwork.

I like how you mention semi retired Tsyu.

Barrera?
Judah?
Alexnder?

Perhaps Paulie??

Maidana improved due to a change in trainer, certainly would have said he was in, or damn close to, his prime so trying to discredit that win by saying he got better is nonsense. If anything his improvement could be argued to make the win look better.

Paulie wasn't near retirement either, went on to fight for another five years winning a world title in that time and challenging for another. I can remember people saying that both Judah and Alexander could beat Khan, boxing fans do like to forget these things are mentioned.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 6:08 pm

Fair enough. Flip the coin here.

Khan was favourite against Prescott, Peterson and Garcia.

He showed a vulnerable side early in his career.

He is exciting and has some decent wins. But he came from the olympics and has been quite well managed.

He didn't fight too many bangers since Garcia until last night.

Brook, Garcia, Thurman and Spence flatten him.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 6:10 pm

I've Said my piece.

What about Canelo GGG? Surely it has to happen next.


Last edited by AdamT on Sun 08 May 2016, 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : .)

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sun 08 May 2016, 7:23 pm

Can't believe the amount of stick Khan is getting on here from, first boxers are 'duckers' then 'dumb' and 'foolish' when they try to take a risk, some boxing fans will never be happy

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Post by Baby faced assassin Sun 08 May 2016, 7:27 pm

Khan has always had talent but the way some people talk about him as some great don't really have a leg to stand on.....imo of course

Like who's he actually beat??
Maidana, his best win but he was so close to being stopped and Maidana got better when he went to Garcia

Alexander, a tricky southpaw but a very average fighter who has pretty  much failed every time he's been tested at world level

Collazo, like Alexander but even less proven at the elite stage who was past his peak

Algieri, another solid fighter but not a world class one who actually ran Khan very very close

Judah, khans bets performance perhaps but like the above 3 fighters he's never been able to succeed at the highest level losing his best fights and was past him peak

I mean those are his best 5 wins surely, maybe kotelnik too but ngl I don't know anything about kotelnik as I never saw him box.

Even if khan had those wins AND NO DEFEATS......... would that even warrant him being a british great?

Being pancaked early in his career against Prescott can be forgiven..... although never avenging the defeat can't

Losing to Garica was poor, but likewise it's a fight that should've been avenged or at least attempted to avenge

Canelo the writing was on the wall but still he took the fight and got pancaked,can't hold it against him too much but he could've gone for a good win at welterweight that could've helped his resume
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Post by hazharrison Sun 08 May 2016, 7:45 pm

milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

Semi-retired Tszyu? Tszyu was heavily favoured to win that fight and had, only seven months prior, beaten the living day lights out of Sharmba Mitchell.

It was good timing on Warren's part (and great work bringing the fight to Manchester) but Hatton had to fight his backside off to overturn the champion.

And ducking Witter? That's another stretch. Hatton's excuse - namely he didn't want to give Witter a payday - is nearer the mark. Hatton would have bullied Witter in a similar manner to Bradley.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 8:07 pm

Hatton had no more ducked Witter, than Khan is ducking Brook.

"Undefeated world champ Brook isn't worthy of facing me. I deserve my fight with Floyd or Manny."

Is that double standards? Or am I just a biased c..t and wrong??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 8:26 pm

Baby faced assassin wrote:Khan has always had talent but the way some people talk about him as some great don't really have a leg to stand on.....imo of course

Like who's he actually beat??
Maidana, his best win but he was so close to being stopped and Maidana got better when he went to Garcia

Alexander, a tricky southpaw but a very average fighter who has pretty  much failed every time he's been tested at world level

Collazo, like Alexander but even less proven at the elite stage who was past his peak

Algieri, another solid fighter but not a world class one who actually ran Khan very very close

Judah, khans bets performance perhaps but like the above 3 fighters he's never been able to succeed at the highest level losing his best fights and was past him peak

I mean those are his best 5 wins surely, maybe kotelnik too but ngl I don't know anything about kotelnik as I never saw him box.

Even if khan had those wins AND NO DEFEATS......... would that even warrant him being a british great?

Being pancaked early in his career against Prescott can be forgiven..... although never avenging the defeat can't

Losing to Garica was poor, but likewise it's a fight that should've been avenged or at least attempted to avenge

Canelo the writing was on the wall but still he took the fight and got pancaked,can't hold it against him too much but he could've gone for a good win at welterweight that could've helped his resume

Who has ever said he was great ????

Nice balanced summation of his career..Aces !! thumbsup

Let's see if we can destroy Ali's legacy...My number 1 fighter of alltime..

Liston threw both fights

Only beat Foreman's sloppy seconds in Frazier 2 and 3....

Foreman was crude....

Williams was scared..

Lost to a novice in Spinks.....

Lost to Norton 3 times...

Yep my number 1 of alltime was crap..


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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 8:33 pm

What fight changed your opinion Truss? You made threads bashing Amir, a few years back.

Just curious. I know people change opinions, I have myself with Ggg.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 8:36 pm

When he went to the US to prove himself..

He's ambitious it's nice to see......

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 8:40 pm

Fair enuff. I hate arrogance if it isn't backed up. It's why I have went off McGregor also.

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Post by Rowley Sun 08 May 2016, 8:50 pm

For a good portion of his career Witter was ranked, pretty much universally, as number 2 at light welter with Hatton number one. Witter vocally, and frequently called Hatton out. Hatton chose not to fight him. Is it ducking, maybe not, but now as it did then it reflects extremely poorly on Hatton.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 08 May 2016, 9:29 pm

The Khan/Brook and Hatton/Witter situations are identical, the big name refusing to fight a domestic rival because of an unwillingness to give them a payday.

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Post by Baby faced assassin Sun 08 May 2016, 9:38 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Who has ever said he was great ????

Nice balanced summation of his career..Aces !! thumbsup

Let's see if we can destroy Ali's legacy...My number 1 fighter of alltime..

Liston threw both fights

Only beat Foreman's sloppy seconds in Frazier 2 and 3....

Foreman was crude....

Williams was scared..

Lost to a novice in Spinks.....

Lost to Norton 3 times...

Yep my number 1 of alltime was crap..


Good effort lad

Don't address the fighter in question but go off on one
Smooth mate

Comparing Foreman to the like of Alexander and Collazo, amazing laughing
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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 9:41 pm

Did Truss compare the great ones career with Khan??

Truss stop stirring.ha

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 May 2016, 10:19 pm

Yeah Ali is number 1 and Khan is number 2.

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Post by AdamT Sun 08 May 2016, 10:21 pm

I have him third behind Brook.

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Post by Guest Sun 08 May 2016, 10:32 pm

Rowley wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fairplay to Khan for showing ambition...

Nothing to feel ashamed about..

Plenty of bollox on the kid..Thank heavens he's not a Hearn fighter..

Bill last night was putrid..Almost as bad as the commentating..

I had to mute the Crolla fight. It's so bad it's untrue.

The undercard was flat out bullying. Who wants to watch people being bullied? Garbage.

The undercard was that bad I was looking forward to Chisora. How bad does what has preceded it have to be to make Chisora a welcome sight?

I have to admit to that was me but I actually turned it off sadly missing the Crolla fight. Seemed an appalling card. A ' tysonesque' murrey destroys a WW!

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon 09 May 2016, 6:49 am

Hearn admitted before the Saturdaty night that undercard would be rubbish, his reasoning 'Crolla deserves a big pay day for taking such a dangerous fight' therefore he spent f*** all on the undercard. Say what you want about Don King but i miss the undercards he used to put on

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 09 May 2016, 6:59 am

I'd far rather a promoter like Hearn or De La Hoya who treat their boxers properly than somebody like King who screwed them for all he could.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 May 2016, 9:59 am

According to boxrec Coyle fought a guy who'd lost his last 12 in a row not 11...

Should the BBBC really be okaying that and should Adam Smith be too....

Is there any dignity or integrity ??.....

Arselickers...

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Post by milkyboy Mon 09 May 2016, 10:46 am

hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

Semi-retired Tszyu? Tszyu was heavily favoured to win that fight and had, only seven months prior, beaten the living day lights out of Sharmba Mitchell.

It was good timing on Warren's part (and great work bringing the fight to Manchester) but Hatton had to fight his backside off to overturn the champion.

And ducking Witter? That's another stretch. Hatton's excuse - namely he didn't want to give Witter a payday - is nearer the mark. Hatton would have bullied Witter in a similar manner to Bradley.

My post was aimed at Adam's relentless slagging of khan.... and then choosing Hatton as his white night. ...but since we're here.

Tszyu had fought 3 rounds against Mitchell who went down to the first meaningful punch of the contest. He'd fought 3 rounds in 2 1/2 years, was nudging 36 and he never fought again. Timing is everything, Tszyu was favourite on past deeds, but it was great matchmaking from warren. A defeat to Tszyu would have been acceptable, but it was a great performance from Hatton, nonetheless... Thereafter, he steered clear of anything approaching danger until the mayweather fight... He was extremely well managed and fortunate that gifts kept on presenting themselves... Urango, maussa, collazo, castillo... A who's who of the lucky or the past it, while the cream of the division moved to welter.

No blame attached to Ricky for this, it's not his fault his division was suddenly populated by also rans. But then there's the shadow of witter...If you don't think Hatton ducked witter, then ducks don't exist... and don't moan if Alvarez doesn't fight golovkin Wink . Seriously, the payday excuse was just one of many excuses Hatton dished out... "He doesn't draw, he needs to get some wins under his belt, he needs a title" etc...this went on for years.

The Bradley defeat for witter looks better in hindsight, I believe Bradley would have beaten Hatton. I do think Hatton would  likely have beaten witter down the stretch as junior had stamina issues... But not a certainty witter was awkward, could bang and had a decent good chin... And Ricky's didn't turn out to be as iron clad as we once thought.

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Post by AdamT Mon 09 May 2016, 10:47 am

I have admitted Hatton is overrated before in another thread. Hardly a white Knight now. Though Compared to Khan, he could be Roberto Duran.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 May 2016, 11:10 am

You keep saying Khan and Hatton are overrated but by who ??

and if they are overrated then where should they be rated ???..

I think Hatton and Khan will go down as British greats.....Don't think anyone thinks they should be any higher..

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Post by AdamT Mon 09 May 2016, 11:48 am

If you think Khan is great, that is fair enough. Opinions and all that.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 May 2016, 12:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd far rather a promoter like Hearn or De La Hoya who treat their boxers properly than somebody like King who screwed them for all he could.

You'd still rather watch a King undercard than a Hearn undercard Wink

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Post by hazharrison Mon 09 May 2016, 12:09 pm

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

Semi-retired Tszyu? Tszyu was heavily favoured to win that fight and had, only seven months prior, beaten the living day lights out of Sharmba Mitchell.

It was good timing on Warren's part (and great work bringing the fight to Manchester) but Hatton had to fight his backside off to overturn the champion.

And ducking Witter? That's another stretch. Hatton's excuse - namely he didn't want to give Witter a payday - is nearer the mark. Hatton would have bullied Witter in a similar manner to Bradley.

My post was aimed at Adam's relentless slagging of khan.... and then choosing Hatton as his white night. ...but since we're here.

Tszyu had fought 3 rounds against Mitchell who went down to the first meaningful punch of the contest. He'd fought 3 rounds in 2 1/2 years, was nudging 36 and he never fought again. Timing is everything, Tszyu was favourite on past deeds, but it was great matchmaking from warren. A defeat to Tszyu would have been acceptable, but it was a great performance from Hatton, nonetheless... Thereafter, he steered clear of anything approaching danger until the mayweather fight... He was extremely well managed and fortunate that gifts kept on presenting themselves... Urango, maussa, collazo, castillo... A who's who of the lucky or the past it, while the cream of the division moved to welter.

No blame attached to Ricky for this, it's not his fault his division was suddenly populated by also rans. But then there's the shadow of witter...If you don't think Hatton ducked witter, then ducks don't exist... and don't moan if Alvarez doesn't fight golovkin Wink . Seriously, the payday excuse was just one of many excuses Hatton dished out... "He doesn't draw, he needs to get some wins under his belt, he needs a title" etc...this went on for years.

The Bradley defeat for witter looks better in hindsight, I believe Bradley would have beaten Hatton. I do think Hatton would  likely have beaten witter down the stretch as junior had stamina issues... But not a certainty witter was awkward, could bang and had a decent good chin... And Ricky's didn't turn out to be as iron clad as we once thought.

I agree (as stated previously) Warren’s timing was excellent. Tszyu was ring-rusty and at the end of a great career. I don’t agree with the semi-retired thing, though. That painted the scenario slightly different to what it was in reality. Tszyu was still a great fighter and a 1-to-2 favourite to beat Hatton. He wiped the floor with Mitchell (who he’d had trouble with previously and who’d subsequently gone unbeaten in eight fights since their first encounter). Tszyu was still Tszyu.

Hatton was extremely well-managed, I agree. His team wanted no part of a Cotto fight when those two headed up the division (a real “one that got away” fight for the ages) and they sold his fights based on alphabet belts (facing Collazo for a paper crown to become a two-weight world champ, “unifying” against Maussa, when in actuality, he was the true champion at 140 anyway after beating Tszyu etc.).

Hatton avoiding Witter due to the fact he refused to give the Bradford man – who couldn’t draw flies to a bin – the biggest payday of his career bears little comparision to Canelo refusing to fight at 160 to avoid Golovkin (despite repeated public protestations he wants the fight). I never thought Hatton was worried about Witter as a fighter (in the same way Calzaghe wasn’t ever worried about Froch) and couldn’t imagine he’d have troubled Hatton overly in an actual fight (aside from a terrible cut received within the first 20 seconds, Hatton handled Jon Thaxton – another exponent of the Wincobank style - quite well).

Bradley vs Hatton would have been a good fight back then. I’d favour Ricky (at that point – Bradley has improved since then).

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Post by Guest Mon 09 May 2016, 12:33 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:The other egotistical idiot David Haye posted that Khan was and I quote "going to solidify his place in boxing history"

I must have missed that bit.
He did, he's firmly placed as a very good fighter but falls somewhat short of truly elite. They'll never be able to take that from Amir. Therefore, Khan's place in history solidified, ONETWODUNCE again looking foolish, all is right with the world

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Post by milkyboy Mon 09 May 2016, 3:02 pm

hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

Semi-retired Tszyu? Tszyu was heavily favoured to win that fight and had, only seven months prior, beaten the living day lights out of Sharmba Mitchell.

It was good timing on Warren's part (and great work bringing the fight to Manchester) but Hatton had to fight his backside off to overturn the champion.

And ducking Witter? That's another stretch. Hatton's excuse - namely he didn't want to give Witter a payday - is nearer the mark. Hatton would have bullied Witter in a similar manner to Bradley.

My post was aimed at Adam's relentless slagging of khan.... and then choosing Hatton as his white night. ...but since we're here.

Tszyu had fought 3 rounds against Mitchell who went down to the first meaningful punch of the contest. He'd fought 3 rounds in 2 1/2 years, was nudging 36 and he never fought again. Timing is everything, Tszyu was favourite on past deeds, but it was great matchmaking from warren. A defeat to Tszyu would have been acceptable, but it was a great performance from Hatton, nonetheless... Thereafter, he steered clear of anything approaching danger until the mayweather fight... He was extremely well managed and fortunate that gifts kept on presenting themselves... Urango, maussa, collazo, castillo... A who's who of the lucky or the past it, while the cream of the division moved to welter.

No blame attached to Ricky for this, it's not his fault his division was suddenly populated by also rans. But then there's the shadow of witter...If you don't think Hatton ducked witter, then ducks don't exist... and don't moan if Alvarez doesn't fight golovkin Wink . Seriously, the payday excuse was just one of many excuses Hatton dished out... "He doesn't draw, he needs to get some wins under his belt, he needs a title" etc...this went on for years.

The Bradley defeat for witter looks better in hindsight, I believe Bradley would have beaten Hatton. I do think Hatton would  likely have beaten witter down the stretch as junior had stamina issues... But not a certainty witter was awkward, could bang and had a decent good chin... And Ricky's didn't turn out to be as iron clad as we once thought.

I agree (as stated previously) Warren’s timing was excellent. Tszyu was ring-rusty and at the end of a great career. I don’t agree with the semi-retired thing, though. That painted the scenario slightly different to what it was in reality. Tszyu was still a great fighter and a 1-to-2 favourite to beat Hatton. He wiped the floor with Mitchell (who he’d had trouble with previously and who’d subsequently gone unbeaten in eight fights since their first encounter). Tszyu was still Tszyu.

Hatton was extremely well-managed, I agree. His team wanted no part of a Cotto fight when those two headed up the division (a real “one that got away” fight for the ages) and they sold his fights based on alphabet belts (facing Collazo for a paper crown to become a two-weight world champ, “unifying” against Maussa, when in actuality, he was the true champion at 140 anyway after beating Tszyu etc.).

Hatton avoiding Witter due to the fact he refused to give the Bradford man – who couldn’t draw flies to a bin – the biggest payday of his career bears little comparision to Canelo refusing to fight at 160 to avoid Golovkin (despite repeated public protestations he wants the fight). I never thought Hatton was worried about Witter as a fighter (in the same way Calzaghe wasn’t ever worried about Froch) and couldn’t imagine he’d have troubled Hatton overly in an actual fight (aside from a terrible cut received within the first 20 seconds, Hatton handled Jon Thaxton – another exponent of the Wincobank style - quite well).

Bradley vs Hatton would have been a good fight back then. I’d favour Ricky (at that point – Bradley has improved since then).  

The first mitchell Tszyu fight stank the place out, as mitchell was in full on hug mode, that was the difficulty... Tszyu was starting to get round that and get on top when Mitchell quit. Whichever, i'll retract my semi-retired and replace with old and inactive! He could certainly still bang and Hatton did really well to stick to a game plan that kept him in close so that tszyu couldn't leverage that right hand.

As for Hatton, I also doubt hatton was worried about witter, i doubt alvarez is scared of golovkin, it's the management teams protecting their assets. Thaxton was a switch hitter but i'm not sure he was a witter clone, and he gave ricky a tough fight. When you're making millions fighting stiffs who can't draw flies, the fact that witter couldn't draw flies is irrelevant... the fight would have been an easy sell. Hatton only decides he doesn't want to give witter a pay day because witter made a nuisance of himself constantly calling ricky out. Granted it was annoying, but then it's annoying when someone talks themselves up as a fight anyone guy.... but won't fight their biggest domestic challenger, who had run up a big run of ko victories and was looking the part.

However you want to paint it, sensibly avoiding a risky awkward opponent, not giving someone you don't like a payday, whatever. If there is such a thing as a duck in boxing, (where everything is a risk reward assessment) this was a duck. Waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

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