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Khan by decision !!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 04 May 2016, 7:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Won't be on here again before the fight so here it is...

1. Khan is like a poor man's Tommy..The only way you beat him is by burying him with a shot.....Canelo for me is more of an accumulator like JCC..

2. Not sure about Canelo's gifts as a pressure fighter...

3. Khan like Leonard v Hagler has the skills to mess him about and frustrate him...Beat him to the punch and dissuade his advances !!.

4. Fancy an upset here....Khan wins the early rounds and spoils late he can do it...Of course he could get shafted...But a moral victory would be a victory for team Khan profile wise..

5. If Khan gets blown out.....Forget I ever wrote this thread..

Khan W 12..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 May 2016, 3:57 pm

Hatton always beats Kosta for me.....A style thing..... Like Forrest-Mosley...Ali v Norton or the way Turpin troubled Robbo....

He walked through Kosta's best shots and wore him down.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 May 2016, 4:56 pm

Always thought Witter would make Hatton look bad for a few rounds then he'd do what he did in most of his big fights and f*ck it up by stinking the place out and showboating when he should have been fighting. I had Hatton winning by late stoppage or fairly comfortable UD. Always annoyed my that fight never got made and, as much of a fan of Hatton as I was, I couldn't give him much wiggle room for avoiding the fight as some of his die-hard supporters

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Post by hazharrison Mon 09 May 2016, 8:15 pm

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Khan is overrated as f..k. Imagine him vs a prime Hatton. He would be murdered.

Now stylistically Hatton's style is exactly the type that Khan struggles with but...

Are we talking the prime Hatton that got a gift against collazo? Or the one that managed the impossible... Getting knocked out by mayweather? Or the one that got sparked by pacman? Oh you mean the one that beat a semi retired tszyu and a bunch of carefully selected no-hopers? The guy who's shameful ducking of witter puts Khan's dismissal of brook to shame.

Really Adam I think we get that you don't like Khan, but If you're going to pick a yardstick do better than the best managed over/marketed boxer in British fight history. Hatton was a very good fighter but he didn't beat anybody who was in their prime... Because until the big money fight with mayweather he was steered well clear of them.

Semi-retired Tszyu? Tszyu was heavily favoured to win that fight and had, only seven months prior, beaten the living day lights out of Sharmba Mitchell.

It was good timing on Warren's part (and great work bringing the fight to Manchester) but Hatton had to fight his backside off to overturn the champion.

And ducking Witter? That's another stretch. Hatton's excuse - namely he didn't want to give Witter a payday - is nearer the mark. Hatton would have bullied Witter in a similar manner to Bradley.

My post was aimed at Adam's relentless slagging of khan.... and then choosing Hatton as his white night. ...but since we're here.

Tszyu had fought 3 rounds against Mitchell who went down to the first meaningful punch of the contest. He'd fought 3 rounds in 2 1/2 years, was nudging 36 and he never fought again. Timing is everything, Tszyu was favourite on past deeds, but it was great matchmaking from warren. A defeat to Tszyu would have been acceptable, but it was a great performance from Hatton, nonetheless... Thereafter, he steered clear of anything approaching danger until the mayweather fight... He was extremely well managed and fortunate that gifts kept on presenting themselves... Urango, maussa, collazo, castillo... A who's who of the lucky or the past it, while the cream of the division moved to welter.

No blame attached to Ricky for this, it's not his fault his division was suddenly populated by also rans. But then there's the shadow of witter...If you don't think Hatton ducked witter, then ducks don't exist... and don't moan if Alvarez doesn't fight golovkin Wink . Seriously, the payday excuse was just one of many excuses Hatton dished out... "He doesn't draw, he needs to get some wins under his belt, he needs a title" etc...this went on for years.

The Bradley defeat for witter looks better in hindsight, I believe Bradley would have beaten Hatton. I do think Hatton would  likely have beaten witter down the stretch as junior had stamina issues... But not a certainty witter was awkward, could bang and had a decent good chin... And Ricky's didn't turn out to be as iron clad as we once thought.

I agree (as stated previously) Warren’s timing was excellent. Tszyu was ring-rusty and at the end of a great career. I don’t agree with the semi-retired thing, though. That painted the scenario slightly different to what it was in reality. Tszyu was still a great fighter and a 1-to-2 favourite to beat Hatton. He wiped the floor with Mitchell (who he’d had trouble with previously and who’d subsequently gone unbeaten in eight fights since their first encounter). Tszyu was still Tszyu.

Hatton was extremely well-managed, I agree. His team wanted no part of a Cotto fight when those two headed up the division (a real “one that got away” fight for the ages) and they sold his fights based on alphabet belts (facing Collazo for a paper crown to become a two-weight world champ, “unifying” against Maussa, when in actuality, he was the true champion at 140 anyway after beating Tszyu etc.).

Hatton avoiding Witter due to the fact he refused to give the Bradford man – who couldn’t draw flies to a bin – the biggest payday of his career bears little comparision to Canelo refusing to fight at 160 to avoid Golovkin (despite repeated public protestations he wants the fight). I never thought Hatton was worried about Witter as a fighter (in the same way Calzaghe wasn’t ever worried about Froch) and couldn’t imagine he’d have troubled Hatton overly in an actual fight (aside from a terrible cut received within the first 20 seconds, Hatton handled Jon Thaxton – another exponent of the Wincobank style - quite well).

Bradley vs Hatton would have been a good fight back then. I’d favour Ricky (at that point – Bradley has improved since then).  

The first mitchell Tszyu fight stank the place out, as mitchell was in full on hug mode, that was the difficulty... Tszyu was starting to get round that and get on top when Mitchell quit. Whichever, i'll retract my semi-retired and replace with old and inactive! He could certainly still bang and Hatton did really well to stick to a game plan that kept him in close so that tszyu couldn't leverage that right hand.

As for Hatton, I also doubt hatton was worried about witter, i doubt alvarez is scared of golovkin, it's the management teams protecting their assets. Thaxton was a switch hitter but i'm not sure he was a witter clone, and he gave ricky a tough fight. When you're making millions fighting stiffs who can't draw flies, the fact that witter couldn't draw flies is irrelevant... the fight would have been an easy sell. Hatton only decides he doesn't want to give witter a pay day because witter made a nuisance of himself constantly calling ricky out. Granted it was annoying, but then it's annoying when someone talks themselves up as a fight anyone guy.... but won't fight their biggest domestic challenger, who had run up a big run of ko victories and was looking the part.

However you want to paint it, sensibly avoiding a risky awkward opponent, not giving someone you don't like a payday, whatever. If there is such a thing as a duck in boxing, (where everything is a risk reward assessment) this was a duck. Waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

I dunno - is it a duck if the general expectation is you'd beat the guy you're supposedly ducking? Canelo is a huge underdog against Golovkin. We can clearly see why Golden Boy are avoiding that fight. Hatton would have been a decent-sized favourite to beat Witter.

From memory, didn't Hatton request a clause in his contract with Warren that specifically included a Witter fight? FW may not have fancied it, but a bit harsh on Ricky to label it a duck.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 May 2016, 8:19 pm

So a favorite would never duck a decent challenger then .

OK.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 09 May 2016, 8:20 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hatton always beats Kosta for me.....A style thing..... Like Forrest-Mosley...Ali v Norton or the way Turpin troubled Robbo....

He walked through Kosta's best shots and wore him down.

Yes but Hatton peaked that night whereas Tszyu was at the end of his career. A younger Tszyu, or if the fight had been staged outside of Manchester or Tszyu had fought the Hatton that came after he'd reached the mountain top could very well have been a different story.

I'd have taken a younger Tszyu to beat Hatton all ends up.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 09 May 2016, 8:24 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So a favorite would never duck a decent challenger then .

OK.  

Some fighters are highly selective over who they fight (cough cough). I didn't buy that with Hatton-Witter, though.

As I said, I'm sure he insisted Warren make the fight (don't recall why it unravelled - getting old).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 May 2016, 8:31 pm

I can't be arsed...

I mean Mayweather's record compared to the Russian T**T you jerk off over..

Just stop being silly..


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 09 May 2016, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by rapidringsroad Tue 10 May 2016, 4:41 am

I would still like to have seen Khan against Mayweather.I don't think he would have been stopped unlike Hatton who many of you on here consider a superior fighter.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 9:43 am

Me too, would have been fascinating to see mayweather in against a really fast handed boxer... Until manny, he hadn't fought one since Judah and it took him a while to adjust. I'm not saying he wins but on a styles basis he has the assets to trouble Floyd. It would have been interesting to see, however it panned out.

I think Floyd thought so too, hence the preference for guys who come looking for him.

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Post by AdamT Tue 10 May 2016, 10:02 am

Timing beats speed. Khan wins the first 3 or 4, then Floyd finds his rhythm.

Khan is brave, so he would keep coming. I think Floyd would stop him around round 9 or 10.


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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 11:01 am

Timing beats speed... Everyone has a full house at Cliche bingo.

Like most soundbites it's true some of the time. Did Alvarez 'time' khan's speed? Or did he just take advantage of Khan dropping his hands and exposing his chin? Garcia 'timed'  Khan.  He threw a left hook as Khan threw a right.... But it only landed because Khan missed with his right. If Khan lands, Garcia probably doesn't. Slower accuracy beats wilder speed.

Jmm negated pacquaio's speed with his great timing, but faced with mayweather who does everything Marquez does but quicker, that timing counted for nothing.

Floyd might stop Khan... But only if he found himself behind on points and he had to. Smart money would be on Floyd w12 in my view.

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Post by AdamT Tue 10 May 2016, 11:13 am

I'm not debating this. No point, I look like a hater.

I just don't really rate Khan that much. others agree, some disagree.

It's not a problem.

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Post by Guest Tue 10 May 2016, 11:16 am

Mayweather knows Khan would be difficult for four or five rounds and knows at his age he can't afford to be chasing a fight so he'd do what he did with Manny and take the fight to him, win the early rounds himself then go back to his usual gameplan.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 11:36 am

AdamT wrote:I'm not debating this. No point, I look like a hater.

I just don't really rate Khan that much. others agree, some disagree.

It's not a problem.

There's not really much to debate with Khan from a boxing  perspective. He has very fast hands, throws really nice combinations has plenty of heart when it gets tough. He isn't astute enough defensively, lacks concentration, intelligence, and doesn't have the chin to get out of jail when that happens. Also he can't fight inside and doesn't have the power to deter determined pressure fighters. Ie he has a lot in his favour and a lot against him, which makes for generally interesting and exciting fights.

Most of the above is largely agreed on. The debates about him are down to his personality. So yep, you look like a hater Adam.

Personally, I admire his bravery (well paid for bravery admittedly). It takes more balls to fight knowing you're chinny, than it does to be George Chuvalo. He doesn't choose to have a weak chin, it doesn't make him less of a man that genetically his legs go if someone catches him right.

Yep he's arrogant, can see why that bothers some, but for me the guy believes in himself and wants to prove himself against the best... At least he's tried.

And yes, if he continues he should fight brook, but I've no problem if he goes for Garcia... Getting back in with a guy that sparked him.

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Post by AdamT Tue 10 May 2016, 11:50 am

I don't rate him milky. Not like some others do.

I dislike him, but that aside, I don't think he is THAT good.

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Post by EX7EY Tue 10 May 2016, 11:59 am

Gets on my wick all this about Khan.

Say what you want about the lad, arrogant, cocky, etc etc. At least he gets in the ring with decent opponents and wants to fight the best. If he comes up short, which admittedly he has on occasion then so what. He puts it on the line, in front of the whole World as well. Yes he's well paid to do so but thats boxing.

Like Milky said, he can't help that genetically his chin isn't built to take a good crack. As someone whos boxed and thai boxed as an amateur who also happens to be 'chinny' I can tell you first hand it plays on your mind and it takes extra balls getting in that ring knowing you are prone to going down if you get caught. I recover quickly unlike Khan but its absolutely frustrating having a weak chin. So I actually feel for the guy.

Id rather have an interest in Khans career over someone like Brook. Whos given you more bang for your buck in their careers so far? No question is there!

In an age where politics is in the way like never before, so many paper champs, so much ducking and avoidance, Khan deserves a lot more respect IMO. He's an exciting fighter with as many flaws as he has qualities. Which makes for a great viewing. My only criticism would be hes probably not fought frequently enough for me in whats probably the peak of his career.

He's a good fighter with big balls. Simple as that. Just enjoy his fights.

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Post by melv500 Tue 10 May 2016, 12:06 pm

Fair play to you Milky for admiring your weaknesses. Only by realising your weaknesses can you improve on them. Khan doesn't think he has a bad chin and also blames everyone for his faults. In interviews he always goes on about him proving he had a chin after a win which is delusional. He has a lot of good strengths and some bad weaknesses. So what he has a bad chin but why not box to protect it? Haye is a good example of this, he admits his chin isn't the best and boxes to keep it out of harms way.

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Post by AdamT Tue 10 May 2016, 12:06 pm

I do enjoy his fights. My favourites are Prescott and Garcia.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 12:08 pm

EX7EY wrote:Gets on my wick all this about Khan.

Say what you want about the lad, arrogant, cocky, etc etc. At least he gets in the ring with decent opponents and wants to fight the best.  If he comes up short, which admittedly he has on occasion then so what. He puts it on the line, in front of the whole World as well.  Yes he's well paid to do so but thats boxing.

Like Milky said, he can't help that genetically his chin isn't built to take a good crack.  As someone whos boxed and thai boxed as an amateur who also happens to be 'chinny' I can tell you first hand it plays on your mind and it takes extra balls getting in that ring knowing you are prone to going down if you get caught.  I recover quickly unlike Khan but its absolutely frustrating having a weak chin. So I actually feel for the guy.

Id rather have an interest in Khans career over someone like Brook. Whos given you more bang for your buck in their careers so far?  No question is there!

In an age where politics is in the way like never before, so many paper champs, so much ducking and avoidance, Khan deserves a lot more respect IMO. He's an exciting fighter with as many flaws as he has qualities. Which makes for a great viewing. My only criticism would be hes probably not fought frequently enough for me in whats probably the peak of his career.

He's a good fighter with big balls. Simple as that. Just enjoy his fights.

well said ex... I agree he should have been more active... he spent too long hanging on for the promised mayweather fight, but the carrot was obviously dangled there for him, so he had to be careful risking it - not entirely his fault that mayweather dicked him about.

Of course, now we know you're chinny, expect to be ribbed about it whenever you drop by! Wink

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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 12:10 pm

melv500 wrote:Fair play to you Milky for admiring your weaknesses. Only by realising your weaknesses can you improve on them. Khan doesn't think he has a bad chin and also blames everyone for his faults. In interviews he always goes on about him proving he had a chin after a win which is delusional. He has a lot of good strengths and some bad weaknesses. So what he has a bad chin but why not box to protect it? Haye is a good example of this, he admits his chin isn't the best and boxes to keep it out of harms way.

If I had any weaknesses I'd definitely admire them, melv

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Post by melv500 Tue 10 May 2016, 12:12 pm

milkyboy wrote:
melv500 wrote:Fair play to you Milky for admiring your weaknesses. Only by realising your weaknesses can you improve on them. Khan doesn't think he has a bad chin and also blames everyone for his faults. In interviews he always goes on about him proving he had a chin after a win which is delusional. He has a lot of good strengths and some bad weaknesses. So what he has a bad chin but why not box to protect it? Haye is a good example of this, he admits his chin isn't the best and boxes to keep it out of harms way.

If I had any weaknesses I'd definitely admire them, melv

Hahaha sorry a couple of typos there meant EX. I am sure you have a wonderful chin Milky ;-)

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Post by EX7EY Tue 10 May 2016, 12:21 pm

Yeah I don't mind taking a ribbing for being a bit chinny. I've been down a few times but I always get back up. Im like that wasp in the beer garden on a nice summers day Very Happy

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Post by EX7EY Tue 10 May 2016, 12:25 pm

Just a point Melv, I know Khan says in public he has no chin issues but lets be honest, realistically he will know that his chin is a chink in his armor.

Just because he's not comfortable admitting to that weakness in public doesnt mean he doesnt know deep down what the score is! The lad knows, trust me.

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Post by melv500 Tue 10 May 2016, 12:29 pm

Haha one of those.

I'd like to say I had a granite chin but it's never really been tested as only really done light sparring before. No doubt if it was tested though I'd go down like a Crack lady of loose morals for a fiver

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Post by milkyboy Tue 10 May 2016, 12:40 pm

melv500 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
melv500 wrote:Fair play to you Milky for admiring your weaknesses. Only by realising your weaknesses can you improve on them. Khan doesn't think he has a bad chin and also blames everyone for his faults. In interviews he always goes on about him proving he had a chin after a win which is delusional. He has a lot of good strengths and some bad weaknesses. So what he has a bad chin but why not box to protect it? Haye is a good example of this, he admits his chin isn't the best and boxes to keep it out of harms way.

If I had any weaknesses I'd definitely admire them, melv

Hahaha sorry a couple of typos there meant EX. I am sure you have a wonderful chin Milky ;-)

... That's what the ladies tell me melv.

I have no idea whether it can hold a shot... Unlike ex, I've never had the cojones to find out.

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Post by spencerclarke Tue 10 May 2016, 1:07 pm

My opinion on Khan has gone back and forth over the years. Supported him in the Olympics and at the start of his career. Around the time of the Gairy St Clair fight I went off him. Due to his attitude and the press coverage. After the Garcia fight I came around to him again as he wound his neck in a little (maybe should have in the fight) and the press and fans went far too much the other way on him. Since then I've been back and forth loads. Some interviews he comes off well. Others terrible. But I struggle to support either the love or loath groups on him. He has had a very good career just not a fantastic one. Let's be fair you can pull apart or build up any fighters cv depending on which side of the fence you sit. I will miss his fights when he retires as they are nearly always exciting. In the end that's probably what matters most.

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Post by AdamT Tue 10 May 2016, 1:25 pm

Fair post. I won't bash him anymore, unless silly comments like, "nobody outboxes Khan" are stated. It is ludicrous.

I will put any personal distaste aside. I wonder if others on here could do the same with certain boxers.

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Post by EX7EY Tue 10 May 2016, 1:35 pm

Of course Khan can be outboxed. Lets have it right, he's no Floyd.

Im not saying people MUST like him but I feel he's a fighter that deserves respect at the very least

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Post by melv500 Tue 10 May 2016, 3:10 pm

EX7EY wrote:Just a point Melv, I know Khan says in public he has no chin issues but lets be honest, realistically he will know that his chin is a chink in his armor.

Just because he's not comfortable admitting to that weakness in public doesnt mean he doesnt know deep down what the score is! The lad knows, trust me.

I'm genuinely not sure he is aware. If so why would you go up nearly two weight categories and fight Alverez? He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I think he genuinely believes he was unlucky to get caught by massive shots when he was KO'd and knocked down all those times. Then maybe you are right and he is aware but just doesn't have the boxing brain to avoid getting tee'd up for punches.

His trainer though should be and his Dad who I think is his manager or part of the team. In hindsight it was an extremely dangerous and stupid thing to do getting in with Alverez as he is someone who has been knocked out badly 4 and 3 weight levels below. Lucky he wasn't seriously hurt and the long term damage is yet to be seen.

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Post by EX7EY Tue 10 May 2016, 3:23 pm

Maybe you're right Melv. Maybe you're right.

I know one thing is for sure, he's surrounded by a load of yes men which probably does him no good. Read an interview with Virgil Hunter before the fight where he explains he had to get rid of a lot of the people surrounding khan before the Alvarez fight because he wanted khan to get mean. He said Shah Khans attitude was 'well he's (Amir) happy'. Bad attitude in my opinion.

Maybe thats why Khan is a good but not a great. Not willing to seperate himself from the glamour lifestyle completely. I know he has toned it down since his younger days but its probably not enough. Khans biggest flaw is his concentration IMO. Not being able to stick to his own game plan for a full twelve rounds.

It's a bit cliche but I think Khan is one of those boxers that would do benefit from a 'Rocky' style camp where he does nothing but eat, sleep, train and think boxing for an entire camp. I dont think he does anything like that.

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Post by Guest Tue 10 May 2016, 3:27 pm

melv500 wrote:
EX7EY wrote:Just a point Melv, I know Khan says in public he has no chin issues but lets be honest, realistically he will know that his chin is a chink in his armor.

Just because he's not comfortable admitting to that weakness in public doesnt mean he doesnt know deep down what the score is! The lad knows, trust me.

I'm genuinely not sure he is aware. If so why would you go up nearly two weight categories and fight Alverez? He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I think he genuinely believes he was unlucky to get caught by massive shots when he was KO'd and knocked down all those times. Then maybe you are right and he is aware but just doesn't have the boxing brain to avoid getting tee'd up for punches.

His trainer though should be and his Dad who I think is his manager or part of the team. In hindsight it was an extremely dangerous and stupid thing to do getting in with Alverez as he is someone who has been knocked out badly 4 and 3 weight levels below. Lucky he wasn't seriously hurt and the long term damage is yet to be seen.
Nope, it's already manifested in Khan's desire to return to WW and lure Miguel Cotto over to England. Hatton has more chance of fighting at WW again.

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Khan by decision !!! - Page 4 Empty Re: Khan by decision !!!

Post by melv500 Tue 10 May 2016, 3:30 pm

Haha I read that too, absolute madness!!! Seriously though someone should be telling him what a stupid idea that is.

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Post by Guest Tue 10 May 2016, 3:36 pm

EX7EY wrote:Maybe you're right Melv.  Maybe you're right.

I know one thing is for sure, he's surrounded by a load of yes men which probably does him no good. Read an interview with Virgil Hunter before the fight where he explains he had to get rid of a lot of the people surrounding khan before the Alvarez fight because he wanted khan to get mean. He said Shah Khans attitude was 'well he's (Amir) happy'. Bad attitude in my opinion.

Maybe thats why Khan is a good but not a great.  Not willing to seperate himself from the glamour lifestyle completely. I know he has toned it down since his younger days but its probably not enough.  Khans biggest flaw is his concentration IMO. Not being able to stick to his own game plan for a full twelve rounds.

It's a bit cliche but I think Khan is one of those boxers that would do benefit from a 'Rocky' style camp where he does nothing but eat, sleep, train and think boxing for an entire camp.  I dont think he does anything like that.
Like many, he's a product of the modern age and is of the opinion that the lives of ordinary people would be forever tainted if we weren't kept updated with the mundanity of his daily life. He'd be unable to commit to a monastic lifestyle where boxing is his sole focus and we'd drive ourselves insane wondering what he's having for dinner. Much as I like David Haye, he's another one who seems to think we need to know what sh!t he's eating for his tea...just get in the boxing ring, punch someone's lights out then announce another fight asap. Ta!

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