EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

First topic message reminder :

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

Sin.....................

Oh I don't know. I suppose we're all exacerbating each other here. Some people can't believe the things I'm saying, I'm often flabbergasted by the things others are saying. Everyone to their own philosophies on life but I can't fathom some philosophies on this site.

An 'Influential' man can't be ignored. As in, an Influential man must be listened to? Is he an Authority? Is that what you mean?

Peter Sutherland was chairman of Goldman Sachs who ripped off all those mortgage holders, so I don't really have much regard for him as in I'd don't really trust him. I'm glad he is probably on our side though! You know the old saying - keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

He was an EU Commissioner and he chaired the GATT negotiations. This man knows everyone and everything there is to know about all of these institutions and countries.

Thats why I'd listen to what he has to say.

He isn't on our side. He's on his friends' side, and I'll bet most of those friends are movers and shakers, wheelers and dealers in the finance capitals and the political power houses of Europe and further afield.

You don't trust him but you trust him?

SecretFly wrote:He isn't on our side.  He's on his friends' side, and I'll bet most of those friends are movers and shakers, wheelers and dealers in the finance capitals and the political power houses of Europe and further afield.

You don't trust him but you trust him?

I'd say he has a few pals in the UK Government considering he was also chairman of BP!

I listen to what he says.

edit:

I just checked out Peter Sutherland's twitter feed. He is now the United Nations Special Representative for International Migration.
My gawd, but he gets shocking abuse from Brixiters.

https://twitter.com/pdsutherlandun?lang=en

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He isn't on our side.  He's on his friends' side, and I'll bet most of those friends are movers and shakers, wheelers and dealers in the finance capitals and the political power houses of Europe and further afield.

You don't trust him but you trust him?

I'd say he has a few pals in the UK Government considering he was also chairman of BP!

I listen to what he says.

Well, I'd read what he says, yes - I personally wouldn't class it as listening to him though.  He speaks for the 100million dollar sect.... oh and the poor of course  

Interesting article from 2015:  Sutherland all warm, placid, meditative, worldly, erudite and idealistic - until he reaches the subject of his own people

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/peter-sutherland-moral-merkel-fragile-europe-sneering-ireland-1.2454732

Sin é wrote:

https://twitter.com/pdsutherlandun?lang=en

Thanks for that Sin! Great stuff. Now there's an angry man! The bad Brex-eaters wouldn't listen to his sage pronouncements! Drat them proletariat basterdes!!!

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

https://twitter.com/pdsutherlandun?lang=en

Thanks for that Sin!  Great stuff.  Now there's an angry man!  The bad Brex-eaters wouldn't listen to his sage pronouncements!  Drat them proletariat basterdes!!!

He is a psychopath and mentally deranged. Just the type of person the globalists love.

Brexit the movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

Fishing (even more relevant to Ireland)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6rb4wWbwE

Europes most successful country, (non EU) Switzerland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjNRXKgO89k

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He isn't on our side.  He's on his friends' side, and I'll bet most of those friends are movers and shakers, wheelers and dealers in the finance capitals and the political power houses of Europe and further afield.

You don't trust him but you trust him?

I'd say he has a few pals in the UK Government considering he was also chairman of BP!

I listen to what he says.

edit:

I just checked out Peter Sutherland's twitter feed. He is now the United Nations Special Representative for International Migration.
My gawd, but he gets shocking abuse from Brixiters.

https://twitter.com/pdsutherlandun?lang=en

He's best friends with the people in these secret societies that aren't so secret anymore, that's how these people keep getting the best jobs...they all sort each other out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDs1cg9Eo

profitius wrote:Brexit the movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

Fishing (even more relevant to Ireland)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6rb4wWbwE

Europes most successful country, (non EU) Switzerland.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjNRXKgO89k

Imagine how prosperous this country would have been if weren't forced to accept huge loans from privately owned banks and forced to give up our natural resources and assets. Enough of being ruled by this unelected elite in Europe we should all follow in Britain's lead.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Enough of being ruled by this unelected elite in Europe we should all follow in Britain's lead.

What we need at the very least is a Political Party that at the very least tries to reflect the views of an increasing number of Irish people that have had enough of the EU as currently constructed.  

Ireland doesn't have a Eurosceptic party - all parties here seem to be dead set on saying "yes, sir" all the way to full integration.  We'll see how tricky the EU will now try to make the UK's exit - but the later any Nation decides to leave the more tangled and tricky that leaving will be.  It's time to at least start a real debate - and for that, there needs to be a real Eurosceptic party to force the debate.

SecretFly wrote:
Ireland doesn't have a Eurosceptic party

That's because Ireland has no realistic future outside the EU fly. If only the English and Welsh had the same sense we'd be in a better place.

We can't roll back globalization and believe that we can use 20th century thinking to solve 21st century problems.

Managing ever increasing global population and dwindling natural resources cannot be done through small independent states with the inward looking protectionist mindsets that led to two world wars.

The EU is the only game in town and it is in everyone's interest to make it work.

One: We can roll back anything we want, rodders.  Isn't that just what the UK has done, shocking the world whilst doing so?  The observers never thought it was possible.  So we'll all look after our own sense of what is possible.

Two: No, the EU is not the only game in town - it's the only game for people who never even study its workings and simply accept it because they are too busy living their lives to care - JUST as the EU undemocratic, divisive, autocratic, ironically extremely 'Nationalistic'  club wants.  I'll say again, it's ironic that the SNP wanted 'Independence' from their own UK and still run to the EU to beg for protection under the Brussels wing.
So many people pretending that Nationalism isn't an issue for them and yet the 'outlooking' SNP, Europhile champions, prove how very Nationalistic we all are.  The only choice to make is which Nation we choose.  Scotland chooses the EU.

3: What the hell is this Globalisation you speak of, rodders? - when the very idea of the EU is to close off and protect its specific market area with tariffs and quotas and protectionism, and laws and rules and regulations and 'defensive' common armies and coastguards....... ; - anything but Globalist in any pure sense.  A stunt - using words of inclusiveness to erect an Empire.

The EU is an Empire - nothing less.  Some of you might not care a lot where your power base comes from or its Nature.  Some of you might not care what system of Governance you're ruled by as long as your salaries are high.  Others, and I'm not alone in Ireland or in Europe, aren't going to bow to any 21st Century Empire or Emperor after walking away from a 20th century version.

Just a thought about Switzerland being kicked out of the FTA next January because they rejected freedom of movement in a referendum, does that make any difference for Champs Cup - i.e., tax concessions etc?

The EU was once described by someone much smarter than I:  
An imperfect union arrogantly led by imperfect people too arrogant to see the imperfections their arrogance has created.

To me the EU has outstripped the critical balance between a trading bloc including cohesive European and British standardised rules (which drives trade and commerce) on one hand and and national identity and self-government on the other.  I went home to vote because I think it is worth saving though in terrific need of reform and remodeling.  And because the Leave people have offered nothing to replace it or drive our economy.

Voting to Leave is a huge leap into the unknown.  The global economy, not just ours, has evolved and developed with this cohesive trading bloc, and London has emerged as the clear focal point of Brit, Euro, and global trading.  And this has created a lot of jobs.  Many people in our islands don't give a toss if the bankers lose out.  But whether we like it or not, they are one of the main drivers of our economy.  We have always been a trading nation, but no one can say with any certainty that simply because we had been successful 200 years ago in the glory days of Empire, we can do so again in the modern world.  Taking the most jaded view, the bankers and finance types and the EU itself are necessary evils for Britain.  Clear finance reform at home is needed - again with balance between levelling to a degree the gap between the wealthy and poor on one side and stifling incentive on the other.  It seems so counter intuitive to pay people not to work.  And, as I said before rolling back the European Union to a degree whilst ensuring the trading loc remains is where I believe we need to go and many of the rules and ties should be reformed and loosened.  

Brits are not Euros.  But we do need to stay involved to help guide and work with our very close neighbors.  The ability to easily go from one country to another is a huge benefit to all.  But we cannot overwhelm our basic ability to take care of our own people.  It is all such a fine balance which might never be right.  

It is so much easier to destroy than to create.  But most of the time throughout history, those who have destroyed have created little in their wake.  To me it seems like a repeat of that all over.  

DSorry for the rant.  It has taken a lot of time for the thoughts to crystallise in any meaningful way.  At least our Home Nations have shown the world we can still play some handy Rugby...........

IT won't be too long now before Kenny et all are invited to choose. EURway or UKway. And they'll be expecting Eurway.

Ireland might do itself a favour and decide to promote and rejoin a revitalised Commonwealth of Nations, and say "b*gger off" to the EU.

They stiffed us on the bondholders, now might be a good time to return the favour.

The British & Irish Isles might then usefully work together in their collective interests to map out their own destiny. They're the English speaking countries of the EU. And they serve as the gateway to mainland Europe. They still maintain strong US relations.

China has a cold at the moment and is sneezing a lot. But it'll get better in time, and the EU is going to come under a lot of economic pressure.

Not sure if it's really in Ireland's interests to be right on the periphery, west of a anti-Eu belligerent nation, that Germany and France will relish the chance to extract the most from. Ireland will merely be an annoying pimple on the *rse of the EU project that has little bargaining power in its current debt-ridden status.

Having read Doc Greys eloquent post, I feel that I am compelled to append a rather ostentatious and long rejoinder. SecretFlys posts have nothing on this so skip to the end! This might be the longest post I've ever written on this site, even after 30,000 odd posts.

Doc... Doc Doc Doc. I may be a UK citizen, but I also carry an Irish Passport- and my whole family is now joining me. I've had mine for 10 years because it means something to me that it is written in Irish and it means something to me that I am both a Protestant and an Irishman. My family don't care about that; they are Protestant and identify as British, but being European is more important to them than being British! 

45% of NI DID vote to leave, but much of that perhaps came from anger at the establishment especially in the loyalist working class areas that have been failed by every layer of government from Belfast City Council right up to the European Commission. But even for the Leave voters having access to the rest of the EU is important. That is why you can't buy an Irish Passport form anywhere in this country for love nor money and thats why it's the post offices in loyalist/unionist areas that are running out. Even the leave heartlands in NI are full of people who are hedging their beds and want to keep one foot in Europe.

So I find the use of the term Brits when you say Brits are not Euros as quite misleading and offensive, to be perfectly honest. Here in NI all the Brits I know are as I said, getting their lovely EU-stamped Irish passports in despite identifying as being British- because being European is still either more or as important to them as being British is.

You see, what you mean when you say British... is English. It's a code word. You are arguing the English are not Euros, not that the British are not Euros. When you say we must work with our close neighbours you mean the English must work with the Germans and French et al. Your lazy catch-all use of the word British when you mean English is insulting to my family who have identified as British for generations even though there was not one drop of English blood in our family tree until my brother and sister married and English woman and man respectively. 

I forgive you, of course, but you should be aware of the gravity of what you just said. Reading it was like being punched in the gut.

The English are often accused of being arrogant by those of us from the Celtic Nations. I don't agree; they are just ignorant. They think that their English Nationalism is British Nationalism. They think that England is the centre of Britain. They think that their English identity includes us somehow and react with hostility when we assert our own national identity and assert we are not interested being a small part of England. And they think the status quo in the UK is balanced and we are fairly treated. That comes not from malice; they are as kind and thoughtful as all people are everywhere. No, it comes from ignorance.

The EU isn't arrogant either- the Germans and French are just as ignorant of the British experience as the English are ignorant of the Celtic experience. They are federalists who don't understand nationalism and don't understand anything of the Englishmans way of looking at the world. That sounds very familiar to anyone who is both British and a Celt. I agree with you they are blinkered and out of touch, and they don't understand where this vote for Brexit came from. I therefore agree that the EU is profoundly and institutionally unbalanced. But how balanced do you assume the UK is? Do you think that English members of Parliament are in touch with the mood of Northern Ireland and Scotland? 

While we are on the subject of Westmisnter... the Labour Party are so in touch with us they have lost every one of their seats in Scotland bar one and literally ban members of the Labour Party in NI from standing as party endorsed Labour candidates in Northern Ireland. And the Tories have just one MP in Scotland and treat NI elections as a work experience project. They literally import English councillors who want to be Tory MPs who have never set foot in NI to run in our elections, learn the ropes of campaigning and get a meagre few hundred votes before heading back to start their political careers on the mainland. That is not a joke. Repeat; none of this is parody. That is the level of respect the two biggest political parties in England have for NI. The contempt is tangible; you could cut it with a knife. Now Scottish Labour has collapsed there is no political party that can bring the three mainland nations together never mind Northern Ireland. Was interesting reading about the politics of the Labour Party coup. Owen Smith was touted as a leader before being ruled out for being... guess what? Too Welsh!!! Heaven forfend a Welshman climb to the higher ranks of that institution... or an Irishman? The Right wing of the Labour Party wouldn't like to have a Paddy about the place you sense. And the Labour left wing want us to be fwee, which means selling us out to dangerous ideologues in Sinn Fein. Still at least both wings of the Labour Party are better than the Tories who want to turn the funds off until we get to the point where we start killing each other again. If it weren't for the fact we get much more money out of the European Union the UK political parties would not have kept the peace process going this long. Our local politicians aren't competent enough to do it themselves especially if the economy tanks and people in NI start looking for someone to blame.

Moving on, you may ask why someone like me who has a strong culturally Irish nationalist bent support the EU, an avowedly federalist project? Because every single last criticism of the EU from a UK point of view applies ten times more to NI or Scotlands position in the UK. The UK is less democratic than the EU. The English have more sway over the running of the UK than the Germans could dream of in running the EU and that says a lot. We Scottish and Irish nationalists are generally not supporters of the EU because we believe in it; we are supporters of the EU because the EU protects us slightly from the governments than England elects. The second reason many nationalists support the EU is that their federalism is nuanced. They protect the cultures of their constituent nations. Irish is a working language in the EU parliament, given equal status... whilst the British spent hundreds of years trying to kill our language off completely and replace it with English. The symbolism couldn't be more obvious if I beat you over the head with it.

Its called Cultural Imperialism and the saddest part is it pretty much worked. I had to wait until the age of 28 to have an opportunity to learn a language my great-great-great-great-grandparents may have spoken every day and I only have one or two people I can speak that language too. The impulse that lead the English to vote for Brexit is the same that lead the English to come for our language. In Boston, Lincolnshire voters said that walking down the street and hearing Polish spoken intimidated them. If the main constituents and voters of the parties of government in the UK are intimidated by Polish spoken in the streets, will they continue the EUs example in threatening the DUP with legal action if they continue to impede an Irish Language Bill. By not preserving our language the NI Assembly is in contravention of EU regulations. Brexit risks legitimising the DUPs own cultural philistinism.

But I'll finish by saying this; if English voters think they can drag Northern Ireland and Scotland out of the EU without a fight then they are not just ignorant anymore; they ARE arrogant. We are European, but we are not just European. We are British and Scottish and Irish and all of that matters to us. But the one thing we are not and will never be is English and we will NOT be dictated to by the English electorate on a major constitutional issue like this. This is not UK democracy as normal, and this is not an issue which can be rectified easily once the new PM commits the UK to leaving. It affects the constitutional nature of our countries. We have a democratic pro-EU mandate in Northern Ireland and Scotland and our politicians will hopefully do everything they can to put pressure on the British Government to make sure that if we do Brexit the Brexit will be the most watered down, wishy-washy Brexit possible with as little change to the rights we currently enjoy as possible. Nicola Sturgeon has shown absolutely inspiring leadership on this issue. I truly admire her so much. Her fight for Scotland's EU rights may yet save Northern Ireland. I've also been proud that Enda Kenny, Taoiseach of Ireland, has broken ranks from the other EU countries to support Scotland remaining part of the European Union, infuriating the UK government and the Spanish. The Dublin government really put their neck on the line for the Northern Irish and Scots there. The Auld Alliance between Scotland and Ireland still delivers for us it seems!

Anyway, I'd better wrap up. This whole process... only finishes one way. Just as the EU let this split happen by not listening to British concerns, the English body politic is about to preside over the eventual disintegration of the United Kingdom. And all so Johnson and Gove could fail to take over the Tory Party. You have to laugh at that bit of mendacity.

I just want to say this to you Doc. You're a very good spud and I love reading your posts on rugby. This is just a very sensitive time for those of us trapped in a UK that isn't working for those of us who are European first and foremost. Those of us for whom being an EU citizen is much more important than being a British citizen. I have many more German, Portuguese and Dutch friends and work colleagues than English colleagues- by a factor of about 5 non-irish EU nationals to every one English national in my immediate social circle. This has been a really emotional and difficult couple of weeks for them and it makes me absolutely furious on their behalf. Especially as their immigration to NI has really brought NI so much more diversity, colour and cultural depth. Free movement has been good to Northern Ireland. Better trade and relations with the rest of Ireland has been good for Northern Ireland. An island without borders has been a major factor in temporarily pausing (thats right, pausing) a bitter, violent ethnic conflict. EU money for infrastructure and cross-community peace building has been good for Northern Ireland. And when I see some people potentially throw the future of my country down the drain because of some sh!te in the Daily Mail. I'm just not rational, I get passionate and well... I truly apologise for the rant. I truly, truly do. But millions like me feel this anger, across not just the UK but all of Europe. And in fact we are just about ready to join with anyone who can fight back.

In conclusion;

Is as Eorpach mé agus is as Éirrannach mé. Is as Briotanach mé ach ní bheidh mé Béarla! I dTuaisceart Éireann agus in Albain, vótáil muid chun fanacht san Aontas Eorpach. Ní breag dom a rá ní chuirimid aiféala é! Tá aiféala orm vótáil tú difriúil mar go bhfuil muid gafa sa phósadh. Tá sé imithe in agar orm ach tá muid gafa ina chéile.

Go raibh milé maith agat do léamh agus gabhaigí mo leithscéal do mo thosaitheoirí hÉireann!!

Slán go foill-

Nótch 

doctor_grey wrote:
Brits are not Euros.

Everything about Britain is fundamentally European and has been built from the Vikings, Romans, Normans and Saxons.

Hmmm...someone forgot the Celts

But then too, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.... well, a whole heap of their fundamental evolution as Nations comes from the Vikings, Romans, Normans, Saxons - and Celts too. They don't have to be joined at the hip to Europe though, do they?

Cut the Needy umbilical cord, people. Stop with the begging bowls.

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...someone forgot the Celts  

I didn't forget them, but if anyone should be brexiteers it should be the Celts....

In fact maybe we should be frank here and say that anyone of non neanderthal descent should be classed as an economic migrant.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...someone forgot the Celts  

I didn't forget them, but if anyone should be brexiteers it should be the Celts....  

In fact maybe we should be frank here and say that anyone of non neanderthal descent should be classed as an economic migrant.

Oh so you're absolving me of EU cynicism sins? Oh that's grand then.

Notch wrote:Having read Doc Greys eloquent post, I feel that I am compelled to append a rather ostentatious and long rejoinder. SecretFlys posts have nothing on this so skip to the end! This might be the longest post I've ever written on this site, even after 30,000 odd posts....

Slán go foill-

Nótch 

Interesting post, Notch.

I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland, and have a similar background to yours. Your comments at first reading, seem contradictory on where your allegiance or belief lies. Do you see yourself as Irish by descent/lineage or British by dint of birth and where you grew up akin to your family?

If you think this is prying, then ignore - I don't wish to invade your privacy/anonymity on this forum.

Pot Hale wrote:

Notch wrote:Having read Doc Greys eloquent post, I feel that I am compelled to append a rather ostentatious and long rejoinder. SecretFlys posts have nothing on this so skip to the end! This might be the longest post I've ever written on this site, even after 30,000 odd posts....

Slán go foill-

Nótch 

Interesting post, Notch.

I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland, and have a similar background to yours.   Your comments at first reading, seem contradictory on where your allegiance or belief lies.  Do you see yourself as Irish by descent/lineage or British by dint of birth and where you grew up akin to your family?

If you think this is prying, then ignore - I don't wish to invade your privacy/anonymity on this forum.

I'm quite happy to discuss my unusual background and how it has given me a very unusual perspective on my Identity.

But I will send it in a PM.

Pot Hale wrote:
I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland

After some extensive research I can confirm that no one in NI agrees with anything Notch says

rodders wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:
I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland

After some extensive research I can confirm that no one in NI agrees with anything Notch says

I do.

You're officially a nobody then, Pot.

Suck it up, can't have it all your own way!

Pot Hale wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:
I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland

After some extensive research I can confirm that no one in NI agrees with anything Notch says

I do.  

Darren Cave will be delighted

rodders wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:
I'm curious if you think your viewpoint is shared by many of your peers who were born in Northern Ireland

After some extensive research I can confirm that no one in NI agrees with anything Notch says

Sin É once told me only dead fish go with the current.

He was talking shoite at the time of course, but I suppose thats the risk I take myself

Notch wrote:
Sin É once told me only dead fish go with the current.

Was he floating when he said it?

I'd say so aye!

Stop that suppression of Sin's right to float any way he likes!

Signed Gove!

You know we all love Sin É

Notch, Not sure about your comments about the Welsh not being held in high regard by the English Labour supporters

The names Bevan and Kinnock come to mind immediately

Brown is a Scot as is Blair technically at least, a significantly large portion of labour cabinets and shadow cabinets have been made up of MPs from the celtic nations

As to my answer to the original question

My reply is not printable and the actions of a small minority of Englishmen since the result make me ashamed to be English

Well-Past-It?

Well..............Past..............It

Hmmm..............

You sound suspiciously like a closet Leaver now pretending to have voted Remain to avoid the Lynching from the irate Taylor Swifties.

Your cover is blown!

As my wife is German, I sort have an interest in staying in, don't you think.

It doesn't matter. If you're well past it, that's scientific proof that you voted Leave, regardless of wife.... unless she's much younger than you and then obviously emotionally blackmailed you into voting Remain.

PS..... Nigel Farage has a German wife

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:As my wife is German, I sort have an interest in staying in, don't you think.

well until you hit the old 7 year itch I suppose.

Notch wrote:You know we all love Sin É

And I love all of you as well

SecretFly wrote:It doesn't matter.  If you're well past it, that's scientific proof that you voted Leave, regardless of wife.... unless she's much younger than you and then obviously emotionally blackmailed you into voting Remain.

PS.....  Nigel Farage has a German wife  

His first wife was Irish She obviously got sense. I believe Mrs Farage doesn't carry a British passport and doesn't vote either!

Boris Johnson's grandfather was Turkish and Jeremy Corbyn's wife is Mexican.

Fintan o'Toole in the Irish Times today will be of interest to you Ulstermen.


Fintan O’Toole: Belfast agreement is a threat to the new English nationalism
The Government must oppose moves to take NI out of the EU against its will

The Brexiteers don’t give a damn about Northern Ireland. In fact, at least two of the leading candidates for leadership of the Tory party, including the woman who is most likely to be the next British prime minister, Theresa May, are actively hostile to the Belfast Agreement.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-belfast-agreement-is-a-threat-to-the-new-english-nationalism-1.2710209

Only goes to prove that multicultural folks don't need multicultural passports to prove it.

Sin é wrote:Fintan o'Toole in the Irish Times today will be of interest to you Ulstermen.


Fintan O’Toole: Belfast agreement is a threat to the new English nationalism
The Government must oppose moves to take NI out of the EU against its will

The Brexiteers don’t give a damn about Northern Ireland. In fact, at least two of the leading candidates for leadership of the Tory party, including the woman who is most likely to be the next British prime minister, Theresa May, are actively hostile to the Belfast Agreement.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-belfast-agreement-is-a-threat-to-the-new-english-nationalism-1.2710209

Good grief, some of the comments from bigoted morons in that article, and going unchallenged...

It isn't going to happen, Sin é. The Belfast agreement is rock solid, and there isn't a chance in hell that Northern Ireland will be allowed to remain in the EU. I do believe there will be an agreement to keep the border open, and possibly some concessions on trade between North and South.

Gove is a dangerous character, but there is no chance that Gove will be PM.

How do you think no border would operate?

Sin é wrote:How do you think no border would operate?

No hard border. There will be passport control. That's pretty much the best I'm hoping for, along with some sort of trade deal.

Passport control means there is a border. What about trading?

edit: back pre Belfast Agreement you didn't have to produce your passport at the border.

What about the tunnels!!!!??

Will there now be passport control on them?

SecretFly wrote:What about the tunnels!!!!??

Will there now be passport control on them?

What tunnels?

Sin é wrote:Passport control means there is a border. What about trading?

I know, I did clarify, Sin é.

I can only hope that something is worked out between the EU, the UK, and the RoI on trade. We do know that's what your guys are pushing for, and will just have to see how that progresses.

Oh Sin.... oh Sin, oh Sin

...what tunnels indeed...

SecretFly wrote:What about the tunnels!!!!??

Will there now be passport control on them?

Shhhh!!!! Don't mention the tunnels