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Respect to Kell Brook

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Post by EX7EY Sat 09 Jul 2016, 1:32 pm

In my opinion you have to give props to Kell for stepping up to fight GGG.

I thought the fight would actually have gotten a decent response on this site but it ls being criticised everywhere and here is no exception it seems.

I've been a huge critic of Brook up until now. Thought he talked a good fight but was happy picking up decent money fighting stiffs. In my eyes this proves he genuinely wants the big fights. I'm more inclined to believe that he struggles getting the top guys at welter to agree a fight.

Yes GGG is a monster in terms of KO ratio. But he hasn't been fully tested yet IMO. Kell has had fights where he has looked a bit flat, but fighters have off nights and maybe some of his lesser performances can be attributed to lack of motivation. At the end of the day he went to America for his belt against a good fighter and he brought it home so we know he has big performances in him.

He's undefeated, visibly a big welterweight and if it is true that he has to punish himself to make weight then is stepping up to middleweight really so unrealistic? I'd he could be a comfortable light middle then it's not that far fetched.

If we haven't seen the best of Kell yet then who knows? He's a more rounded boxer than Amir and certainly has a better chin so it's not necessarily going to be khan canelo all over again.

I hope he wins, but if he just makes the final bell in a competitive fight then he wins regardless of the decision. If he takes GGG the distance all roads lead to Kell in the WW division. If khan doesn't retire then there is definitely nowhere left for him other than Kell Brook.

I'm actually looking forward to this. I'll buy the PPV with no hesitation. I just hope he stacks the undercard and makes a proper show for boxing fans.

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Post by milkyboy Sat 09 Jul 2016, 1:46 pm

Whatever the motivation, logic or money put on the table, it takes nads for a welterweight to get in the ring with golovkin. Let's face it, the top middles haven't been queuing up.

Most of us have bitched that he hasnt fought anyone, but he's leapt from one extreme to the other here.

This doesn't look good for Golovkin's credibility, but that doesn't reflect on brook. I don't think it's a great fight for brook, personally and I think he'll get mullered, but no beef with him taking it.

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Post by Guest Sat 09 Jul 2016, 2:10 pm

GGG could benefit - apart from an easy fight for good money, it could shame those that have been avoiding him to fight him.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 10 Jul 2016, 9:37 am

Golovkin is fighting whoever was willing to sign so he didn't lose the date

It's a mismatch but that's because triple g is that good

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Post by EX7EY Sun 10 Jul 2016, 9:41 am

Maybe it will turn out to be a mismatch. Maybe Kell Brook will turn out to be a fighter that doesn't know how to lose. I've always been a critic of Kell but I don't think we've seen the best of him.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Jul 2016, 10:09 am

BoxingFan88 wrote:Golovkin is fighting whoever was willing to sign so he didn't lose the date

It's a mismatch but that's because triple g is that good

No one has been willing to sign for 6 years and the poor guy has had to settle for good pay days fighting stiffs...

Even worse for the poor guy he is getting millions for a welter...

Bless him.....He has my condolences...

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Post by Rowley Sun 10 Jul 2016, 10:26 am

If you gave Canelo grief for taking on Khan, you have to be equally of critical of Golovkin taking Brook. To do otherwise makes no sense.

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Post by Happytravelling Sun 10 Jul 2016, 11:05 am

It's a mismatch but I give GGG more leeway than Alvarez as it looked like Alvarez signed khan to avoid GGG. Where as GGG signed brook because his fight with Eubank feel through.

It was plain to all that Alvarez is avoiding fighting GGG and that GGG has simply struggled to get fights because he's avoided.

Brook has some stones signing up for this. I hope he's competitive and when the end comes it's quick.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 10 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

Kell is being too macho....GGG is getting around 5 million for this and I have no doubt he thinks it's easy money...Brook should have insisted on a catchweight.....It might be frowned on but Golovkin wouldn't turn down this kind of payday and it might have given Kell more of an edge in the mental department...

I remember Meldrick Taylor insisting on Terry Norris coming in at 150 when he jumped two divisions to....jr middle.

Catchweight is more accepted now...

Think Kell has missed a trick.

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Post by Coxy001 Sun 10 Jul 2016, 12:22 pm

Brook by points... 9/1.

Tempting.

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Post by Lance Sun 10 Jul 2016, 12:37 pm

There have been fights GGG wasnt willing to make but his fans blamed this on his once convenient approach to unifying Middleweight. This blows that out of the water.

Huge respect to Brook. Thinks this proves hes been let down by his own promoters in the past, not his own courage.

Maybe we will see GGG accept challenges by Lara, Hopkins, Dirrell and Ward after??? Or will it be back to only fighting Middleweights whilst waiting for Canelo

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Post by milkyboy Sun 10 Jul 2016, 1:37 pm

The Coxy001 wrote:Brook by points... 9/1.

Tempting.

If you want good odds on a live underdog in an upcoming fight, bet on postol against Crawford. Or just throw your money away on brook.

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Post by Guest Sun 10 Jul 2016, 5:40 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Brook by points... 9/1.

Tempting.

Yes.. if you're really stupid.

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Post by Mr Bounce Sun 10 Jul 2016, 11:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kell is being too macho....GGG is getting around 5 million for this and I have no doubt he thinks it's easy money...Brook should have insisted on a catchweight.....It might be frowned on but Golovkin wouldn't turn down this kind of payday and it might have given Kell more of an edge in the mental department...

I remember Meldrick Taylor insisting on Terry Norris coming in at 150 when he jumped two divisions to....jr middle.

Catchweight is more accepted now...

Think Kell has missed a trick.

Catchweight is fine if it's not for a title. This is for 3 belts so, no I don't think there should be a catchweight. If you want the 160lb belt, then do it at 160. I give my dues to Brook, but I don't think this will do anything for GGG's legacy. It can be argued that he's being avoided, but only up to a point. Eubank didn't have the minerals to sign (or was he just being too much of a diva?) and looking down the middleweight list, there's not many names left for him to conquer. Alvarez was so blatant in his duck it was a joke and you could say the same for Cotto. Other than those two, the only 3 who aren't former GGG victims in the top few in the division are Jacobs, Eubank and Saunders. Jacobs is fighting the formidable TBA on 30th July, Eubank didn't sign and Saunders is apparently fighting in September but there's no details of who it's against. Other than that it would be Quillin (who vacated the WBO belt instead of facing GGG, then drew with Andy Lee before subsequently getting iced by Jacobs), Lee himself who's not fought since losing to Saunders and the unknown and untested Maciej Sulecki. Then we're moving into the realms of Willie Monjoe Jr and Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam so it shows that Middleweight isn't exactly stacked with stars.

But conversely since Froch retired and Ward's moved up, SMW isn't exactly full of fighters you'd bother getting up to watch in the middle of the night. DeGale is possibly the best of the lot and he seems to go to sleep halfway through fights. Bute has tested positive, Badou Jack doesn't exactly get the pulses racing and then you've got Sturm and Abraham who are fighting solely on their names and past glories as their best days are way behind them. The Dirrell brothers seem to fall to bits whenever they meet someone who can fight a bit - in fact the only champion who seems to be worthy of a look is Ramirez, but there's not too many names on his record. Groves too seems to struggle with pressure and Callum Smith is a work in progress (although he does have potential).

If I was GGG I would have looked at SWW as there's decent match-ups there such as The Charlo twins, Demtrius Andrade (although he has no belt, which I am sure GGG would only consider moving weight if there was one at stake) and of course Lara, which might not make too much financial sense as he's not very marketable. And there is of course Liam Smith but he's tied up facing Canelo in September.

Instead we have the world's best middleweight fighting a blown up welter. Granted it could be the making of Brook, but on current showings I can't see anything but a painful end to Brook's unbeaten streak. This is why I hate duckers and ridiculous numbers of belts. One belt per weight - PLEASE!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:43 am

I don't agree with catchweights for title fights Bounce...... but....

1. Fact is they are pretty much accepted practice...

2. This fight is getting trashed....Reckon we'd all find it a bit more interesting if GGG was made to come in at 156/157.....

3. 5/6 million pounds for a welter that struggled with Porter.....Would have given Brook's team good negotiation room.......They weren't turning this freebie down.

4. Brook maybe old school.......But when Ray Robbo moved up to middleweight he didn't have this guy waiting for him.....

Brook is 9/1........Hopeless odds..

Leonard was 6/1 against Hagler..........
Fury was 4/1 against Wlad...

Won't be much money spent on the filler fights for this card......Hearn won't have much to spend to try to break even......Maybe he can chuck a Cardle v Dodd 3 on it....

Probably buy it though............If it happens..

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Post by Coxy001 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 10:35 am

Brook is 9/1........Hopeless odds..

That's his odds for a UD. He's remarkably similar in odds to what Khan was, but due to blinkers you won't be championing how much of a chance Brook has (even though he has a much better one than Khan as he's able to get hit without collapsing to the floor).

I'm just massively annoyed that it's on the day I'm getting married, won't have a prayer of watching it.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 11:23 am

He's going to win by knockout is he ?? Rolling Eyes

Khan had a better chance with Canelo.........Khan was quicker and Canelo is less schooled...

GGG is leagues above Canelo technically......

Anyway enjoy your big day.......She's a very lucky girl..

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Post by AdamT Mon 11 Jul 2016, 11:51 am

I wouldn't say Khan had a better chance. Probably about the same.

Brook is better than Khan, but GGG is better than Canelo.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:05 pm

AdamT wrote:I wouldn't say Khan had a better chance. Probably about the same.

Brook is better than Khan, but GGG is better than Canelo.

Is that it ????????


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Post by AdamT Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:19 pm

What else is there to add??


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Post by AdamT Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:24 pm

GGG picks his punches better than Canelo. He is better schooled than Canelo.

Brook imo is better than Khan in nearly every department, bar speed.

Khan never made it past 6. I also think Brook won't see past 6.

Hence, Brook has similar chance than Khan.

Anybody that even has the smallest knowledge of boxing, would never pick Khan or Brook to win. Honestly the worst picks ever. It is ludicrous to even put an argument forward. Only a moron would suggest it.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

Simplistic crap..

Brook isn't necessarily better than Khan its a pickem fight..

GGG at 160 is streets ahead of Canelo or anybody..

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Post by AdamT Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

Brook would smash Khan. I would put everything I have on it.

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Post by AdamT Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:30 pm

Answer me this!

Khan is always beating on about Brook hasn't fought anyone. So he doesn't deserve a fight with him.

Does he deserve a fight with Khan after this??

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Post by RanjitPatel Mon 11 Jul 2016, 1:02 pm

Fair play to Kell, deserves a lot of respect for this. Looks as much of a foregone conclusion as if GGG had fought any middleweight so I don't really see the issue. Just hope he does well enough to take it a few rounds.

Not sure what his tactics will be here. Never thought he moved well enough to run from Golovkin so that's out. He'll probably fight the same way he normally does and try to time GGG coming in. Much harder against a bigger man thats willing to take a shot to give a few back.

Forget points, Kell is going to have to knock GGG out to win this fight. It's never going the distance with the styles of the 2.

Golovkin in 4 for me, could be earlier but I think he'll carry Kell a few rounds. Tough to judge what would be a respectable defeat for Kell. Points obviously, but that isn't happening.

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Post by milkyboy Mon 11 Jul 2016, 4:29 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
Brook is 9/1........Hopeless odds..

That's his odds for a UD. He's remarkably similar in odds to what Khan was, but due to blinkers you won't be championing how much of a chance Brook has (even though he has a much better one than Khan as he's able to get hit without collapsing to the floor).

I'm just massively annoyed that it's on the day I'm getting married, won't have a prayer of watching it.

Long odds sometimes come in. The odds must have been pretty long on you finding someone to marry you coxy.      But hey hope springs eternal there must be a decent shout she'll come to her senses and not turn up. You'll have loads of alcohol and all your nearest and dearest on hand to watch Kel get spanked.Wink

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 4:31 pm

RanjitPatel wrote:Fair play to Kell, deserves a lot of respect for this. Looks as much of a foregone conclusion as if GGG had fought any middleweight so I don't really see the issue. Just hope he does well enough to take it a few rounds.

It's a PPV event......"just hope he does well enough to take it a few rounds"

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Post by milkyboy Mon 11 Jul 2016, 4:40 pm

It's like the Joshua fights. If you know the main event is likely over very quickly, you really need a decent undercard to fall back on. We know that isn't happening.

That's from the perspective of a boxing fan. Clearly there are plenty of buyers out there who either don't care, don't think that way, or don't think.

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Post by kingraf Mon 11 Jul 2016, 5:05 pm

I haven't seen a fight this hopeless since Apollo Creed tried to fight Ivan Drago.
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Post by RanjitPatel Mon 11 Jul 2016, 5:57 pm

It's a mismatch but I hope the over matched fighter can go a few rounds.
I find it less intriguing than Canelo v Khan because of the styles involved however this has to be PPV. It's how Hearn and Sky work. All Joshua's ppv fights were thought to be mismatches with him heavy odds on fav in all. Doesn't make it right but that's how it is.

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Post by catchweight Mon 11 Jul 2016, 6:46 pm

Brooks opening odds are actually shorter than most Golovkins opponents. Hes about 5/1 or 11/2. Thats shorter than Murray, Macklin, Rubio, Geale etc from what I can remember. Likewise Khan was a shorter price against Alvarez than, for example, the heavier Liam Smith. So the bookies place less attention on weight over perceived ability. Probably due mainly to the fact the weight division has become pretty meaningless reflections on a fighters real weight class. Which is why these cross divisional and catchweights fights are becoming more popular.

Moreso than ever, and especially in the UK, competitiveness is not a requirement to be ppv. And as Joshua has shown, even the illuson of competitiveness is not a requirement. This is one of the things I really dislike about the Matchroom model. The focus on a making a fighter a ppv commodity rather than the actual fight. But it will only stop working if the demand tapers off to make these ppv events no longer commercially viable. It doesnt look like thats going to be happening because I think Matchroom have very successfully exploited the partisan elements of boxing whereby theres a lot of fans out there who are as happy to see their favourite fighters knock out a palooka in an "event" as to take on a risky opponent incompetitve sporting context. They have done something similar in darts where they have very successfully bridged a pub sport with a crowd that are generally looking for an excuse for a p1ss up.

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Post by milkyboy Mon 11 Jul 2016, 7:37 pm

Absolutely catchy. If you can roll out (literally) fat, beer swilling blokes wearing tents and sell it as sport to the great British public, it's a walk in the park to sell Anthony Joshua.

Cleverly bellew did it though. That was his tester. Sell that and you have a business case. If you can drum up a grudge match where at least one of the fighters has a groundswell of local support... And sky are prepared to ramp up the marketing for it, as they have thousands of promotional slots and less sport to promote than they used to... And an immediate cash incentive for it to be successful (compared to their subscription channels). Then you have a nice little business model to get the bored British male to part with a few quid on a Saturday night. 

Fans of the sport can bitch all we want, the WWF generation are voting with their wallets.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:10 pm

So true , it's the fight that should be ppv not the fighter.

 Can't stand it. Never payed for a Joshua fight and only would if he boxed Fury, Wilder or I suppose Haye (if Dave could actually beat a contender,) ie for a competitive close to 50/50 fight only.

If then Joshua cleaned out the division and there was nothing else to fight, you wouldn't then want to pay to see him in mismatches would you? Though of course he WOULD be a major star if he beat those three and I guess his fights would then be an event not just a boxing match. Dominant British heavyweight champ doesn't happen too often does it. But fighters as ppv the exception as opposed to the rule, you'd hope.

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Post by Rowley Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:39 pm

Sky are smart though. As Milky has said they know how to do their marketing and know how many they can get away with a year without it taking the complete rise. It tends to be about four a year, reasonably well spaced apart (I know circumstances mean that doesn't always happen). They also get the pricing right. I am by no means a wealthy man but the reality is £17 is not breaking the bank, in real terms if TSMR and I were to go out for a drink it about covers three rounds, so an hour and half worth of night out maximum. They know irrespective of how we all moan enough people will look at in them terms to make the numbers work, which they apparently do.

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Post by catchweight Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:45 pm

The whole ppv aspect has been steadily evolving for the worse for years no. At least when "the fight" was looked at as ppv there was an element of merit to it. I.e that people paying ppv would increase revenues to make the big fights more lucrative and therefore more likely to come off. Fighters (or at least their manager and promoters) would be compensated additionally for the biggest fights with bigger purses.

Now by introducing a culture where fighters themselves are ppv irrespective of opponents or ppv is seen as a normal component for general boxing demand its actually starting to work in the inverse. Its not neccessary for ppv to be needed for big fights anymore. Why put a fighter that already charges ppv in against a risky opponent to make the fight happen? What the hurry to put Joshua in with riskier opponents if hes already earning good money on ppv against walkovers? Would Golden Boy have swerved Golovkin if they knew they couldnt just go ahead and charge ppv for Alvarez v whoever else next? Probably not. Brook v Golovkin is only happening because the ppv model is there to make this commercially lucrative for all concerned.

A few years ago, which I guess shows how quickly things have changed, people were getting a bit sniffy that Froch v Kessler II was going to ppv (amazing to think of now). Sky had abandoned ppv and Froch had never been on ppv before. A special one off occassion Matchroom said. Neccessary to get Kessler to come to the UK. Three years later and its Bellew v Cleverly, Brook v Gavin, Joshua v TBA. The expectation has been driven so far down that it feels like almost any card could go ppv on a whim.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:58 pm

Catchy is on the money...

It's the way it is now and it's becoming the norm..

Soon Hearn won't be explaining why anything is PPV....The fan will just shell out.

Clev v Bellew did change everything..as Milky says..

We are where we are...

Maybe I'll buy it maybe I won't....Nobody stays principled for long..

Like to see Adam Smith man up to Hearn on the normal cards though...

He seems to accept anything...

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Post by Rowley Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:05 pm

Sky have picked their team well. Smith is Head of Boxing so has a vested interest in selling the thing. Halling is aware of the criticism he receives so is happy not to rock the boat as he knows his willingness to tow the party line is all he has in his locker.

To be honest there were a number of things that got on my wires during the last Joshua PPV. On at least two occasions members of the team working the fight said they were not too familiar with Breazeale. Fair enough he ain't exactly Mike Tyson but when you're being paid well and the public are being asked to shell out £17 to listen to you it wouldn't kill you to spend an afternoon on youtube and to do some research. It's certainly a well packaged and presented affair but the content is definitely lacking.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 12 Jul 2016, 12:08 pm

Halling is the most shameless commentator I've listened to in all my years...

The Murray fight before Groves summed it up...Murray wanted an early stoppage to make a statement...Then Murray wanted rounds under his belt..

He is a commentator who should have at least a semblance of duty of care to his audience..

In effect he is no more than a Hearn PR man.

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Post by Dipper Brown Tue 12 Jul 2016, 4:02 pm

Can this thread be locked by the moderators please? Everyone is talking sense and it's making me feel very uneasy.

Can't somebody bring it down in to the gutter, for the love of God?!

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Post by ShahenshahG Tue 12 Jul 2016, 4:52 pm

Kell is a p**f

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Post by catchweight Tue 12 Jul 2016, 7:30 pm

Halling and his commentary give you an idea of where Sky and Matchroom see their target audience pitch.

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