Le Big Match - Nadal v Federer

After a breathtaking day of semi finals, we have our two men to compete in the final.

Who wins?

I am going to have to say Nadal. He will try and breakdown the backhand and attack it at every opportunity. Sorry Roger

I'll go for Rafa Nadal as well as this is his surface.

As a Federer fan, I will have to say that Rafa is the strong favourite to win this one and defend his title.

With Novak, it would have been a bit closer, although I would still have made Rafa the favourite, notwithstanding his two clay final losses to Novak.

Rafa not on form, Roger dropped only 1 set in 6 matches, Roger beating the only unbeaten guy this season, the new balls making it hard for Rafa to get topspin, I know which one this is going to

i think rafa has the edge in the final but still if roger plays his best tennis he can surely dethrone him.

I'm just so excited at another Roger vs Rafa slam final. It's been an age since we had one.

I hope Roger wins !!!! 8)

Nadal will pound Federer into the dirt once again.

Back in 2005 Federer got to the semi's without dropping a set, Nadal easily swept passed him. 2011 will be much the same.

sonic_boom10 wrote:Nadal will pound Federer into the dirt once again.

Back in 2005 Federer got to the semi's without dropping a set, Nadal easily swept passed him. 2011 will be much the same.

Unlikely that he will pound him into the dirt but I think he is favourite to lift this if he can maintain his "A" game.

sportslover wrote:

sonic_boom10 wrote:Nadal will pound Federer into the dirt once again.

Back in 2005 Federer got to the semi's without dropping a set, Nadal easily swept passed him. 2011 will be much the same.

Unlikely that he will pound him into the dirt but I think he is favourite to lift this if he can maintain his "A" game.

Doesn't need his 'A' game.

He's in Federer's head.

It's whether Federer can beat Nadal at Roland Garros.

Fed will win this time, he is the underdog and has nothing to lose. Come on FEd!

Wow!
Votes tied at 11 each.
Will the match really be that close?

Hope it goes to 5 and Fed wins it.

Federer saying with a big smile to Cedric Pioline in his on-court post match interview : Isn't it Rafa's birthday today? Nice present I gave him"

when fed playing nadal,,his face was not as cool as yesterday

The pressure is all on Nadal, he is completely expected to win this. If, however, Federer was to pull this off then it closes every debate possible; a double-Grand Slam, winning RG against Nadal, etc. etc.

I make Nadal a 1/5 on favourite UNLESS Federer plays as if he has Djokovic down the other end. I still think Murray had significant chance in that match today, 3 straight sets is hugely unrepresentative of the actual match, and Nadal is beatable. Doesn't mean he'll be beaten, but I don't think it's beyond a top player on top form right now.

The closeness of this contest can be owed to the fact that there are more fed fans than nadal's. And there are more contributors who just do not want to see nadal winning.

I just saw this article on the Roland Garros website and it sums up the formidable challenge that Roger faces perfectly. As the author correctly states, this is a bad match up for Roger. Nadal is indeed a "great wall", an inpenetrable fortress.

http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2011-06-04/201106041307180686802.html

News & Photos / Articles / Federer up against great wall of Nadal

Federer up against great wall of Nadal

Saturday, June 4, 2011

By Matt Cronin

Andy Murray contested one of the best clay court matches of his life and still couldn't take down five-times Roland Garros champion Rafael Nadal in the semifinals. In fact, Murray couldn't even win a set in his 6-4, 7-5. 6-4 defeat to the muscular Spaniard.

So how exactly is 16-times Garden Slam champion Roger Federer going to take down the same man who buried him 6-1, 6-3, 6-0 in the 2008 Roland Garros final, in four sets in the 2006 and 2007 Roland Garros finals, and in four sets in the 2005 French semis?

In fact, as impressive Federer was in his dramatic, hard fought and often spectacular 7-6(5) 6-3 3-6 7-6(5) upset of No. 2 Novak Djokovic in the semifinals on Friday, his match-up against Nadal is a completely different animal, one where some of the same strategies that he used against the Serbian will be irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is that the left-handed Nadal's heavy topspin forehand, slice and kick serve numb the Swiss' forehand and while Djokovic is willing to trade heavy offensive blows with Federer, Nadal is comfortable that his defense can simply takes Federer's legs out from under him.

Nadal owns a 16-8 record against Federer and is 11- 2 against him on clay. Only one man has been able to defeat Nadal at Roland Garros since his maiden title run in 2005 and that was Robin Soderling in the fourth round in 2009 ,and while the big Swede must be given credit for the victory, the Spaniard's knees were aching at the time and after losing the match he had to pull out of Wimbledon, where he was set to defend his title

Nadal, clay-court king

Nadal brings so many things to the table: a murderous hooking forehand that he can hit any way he chooses, incredible foot work as well as speed, and an improved serve that not only is faster, but has much more variety s now instead of just bouncing in left-handed twisters. He can go out wide to the deuce court, down the T in the ad court and hard to the body. While his two-handed backhand can be attacked, he often punished the shot crosscourt against Murray and passes better with that wing than he does with his fearsome forehand. He is not an aggressive return of server, but a very accurate one who seeks to wind himself into points before launching an attempt at a winner.

Nadal still trusts his defense more than he does his offense and why not? He has won five Roland Garros largely because it's near impossible to hit through and around him. When facing the Spaniard, Nadal's foes feel like are being launched into infinite rallies, which is extremely draining mentally. That's why in losses to Nadal at Court Philippe Chatrier, Federer has often grown frustrated after losing one long rally after the next and began framing balls.

Same again please

With that said, if Federer serves as brilliantly as he did against Djokovic, can find the same magic off his backhand side and keep Nadal guessing, he has to be given a chance in the contest. The primary reason why he was able to stop Djokovic's 43-match winning streak was because he often controlled the court with his forehand, which is a mandatory task for him against Nadal. That and his serve are the two weapons that will allow him to get on top of the Spaniard early in points, because the longer the rallies go and the more Nadal is able to push him off the court, the harder it is going to be for him to turn points around. Against Djokovic, he could count on being able to reflex back the Serb's hard and flat balls. Against Nadal, he will have to take spinning balls high up near his shoulder, which are more difficult to control.

Like he did against Djokovic, Federer is going to have to play to near perfection. He cannot afford to have any mental lapses, must take risks and maintain a measure of belief that the great Spaniard is vulnerable.

But the only way that Nadal is going to lose this match is if he doesn't bring his "A" game for 3 out of the 5 sets, and that has never happened to him in Roland Garros final before. He has had a difficult time in the first four months of the year dealing with Djokovic's rapid rise and four losses to him, but in his last two wins at 2011 Roland Garros over Soderling and Murray, he was bubbling with confidence again, leaping about the court and showing a willingness to do whatever is necessary to win. Federer is sure to give Nadal trouble at times, but the Spaniard has always been a bad match-up for him on clay, which is why it is more than likely that Nadal will raise a record-tying sixth trophy on Sunday.

Very good post, it's all about rock/paper/scissors. All this is why the improving Djokovic, and potentially Del Potro, will be Nadals nemeses but always be vulnerable to Federer (which he's still around).

Unfortunately for Fed, he's the scissors to Nadals rock; if he had a double-handed backhand "paper" it might be different, but then we wouldn't love his polay so much.

Still, a chance to dream that elegence could prevail over defence and stamina. Until tomorrow, anyway.

Federer can easily give the Spaniard a defeat tommorow as he is now a better player at the net (Thanks to his new coach Paul Annacone) than when he last played Nadal in the French Open in 2008.

5 hours to go until the big match.....unless it rains:

Weather is rainy with moderate wind but shoudl clear at 5pm

What Nadal said:

"I don't have the power to control the weather," he said. "So if it rains, I'm going to think it's an advantage for me; if the sun shines, I'm going to think it's an advantage for me. I have to think positive all the time because I cannot control that."

The poll tells us that there are more fed fans than Nadal on this forum. Where art thou- messers CP, UE, Rez and Boromir?

I was happy on Fed winning against DJoko but now I think other way. Nadal has too much of psychological advantage against Fed. Only a miracle or unforseen circumstances will result in a Fed's win.

Nadal has a physical advantage over Federer which some might think it's a psychological one but frankly, it's essentially a physical one.

Tenez- Are you a fed supporter or just anti Nadal?

Tenez, you keep peddling the same old tired rubbish ad nauseum. If we're to believe you all his amazing achievements are not due to having any talent at all - just muscles. I'm tired of reading about your constant anti-Nadal views, quite frankly its enough to make one think about leaving here for somewhere like MTL instead...its also one of the reasons I stopped posting on 606, and I know many others got tired of it too. I love all aspects of the game and its players, you just seem to have an obsession in constanting denigrating one guy.

Nadal beat a prime Federer as a rookie 17 yr old on hardcourt....psychology and muscles had nothing to do with it...Nadal's talent did. Talent is talent, get over it.

Overall I believe Fed to be a better player than Nadal. I would go as far as to say that he is a much better player who happened to meet an unfavourable match up. It's just that Fed has not been able to take advantage of the weaknesses/limitations in Nadal’s game so far.

You are still in time Fed!!

nadal in 3 or 4

I agree tennis is about match-ups, it always has been. Its also about exploiting weaknesses in other players games (thats a talent in itself to do that). Considering that Nadal has a 16-8 lead over Federer, 5-2 in slams and has beaten him in slam finals on all surfaces I'm not convinced that Nadal has more weaknesses/limitations than Federer. They just have different games - there is no ideal type of player/playing style, just the player who wins the most matches. Nadal and Federer both know how to win more than the other players. Nole may be learning of course...

We need to put things in perspective here when we talk about weaknesses - we are merely talking about areas other players are able to exploit at the top level. For the reasons above I dont agree that Federer is 'much' better than Nadal - the facts surrounding career achievements dont support it. Plus Nadal has been winning titles, Masters and slams without having to always face Federer but the fact he has won 5 of his 9 slams versus Federer where all others have largely failed indicates he's quite a talented player who can find and exploit weaknesses in Federer's game that others cant.

Lydian, stick around don't let Tenez's obsession drive you away. You add a lot to the site. MTL is like tennis twitter with an average post of 4 words and 12 smiley faces, it isn't bad and I hope its fun for the people on it. It is obvious to anyone that nadal is a supreme talent as are all the players at the top of the game or they wouldn't be there.

Nadal in 4. The weather is an unknown factor though keeping the faster balls lower than before...Federer must win the first set.

lydian wrote:I agree tennis is about match-ups, it always has been. Its also about exploiting weaknesses in other players games (thats a talent in itself to do that). Considering that Nadal has a 16-8 lead over Federer, 5-2 in slams and has beaten him in slam finals on all surfaces I'm not convinced that Nadal has more weaknesses/limitations than Federer. They just have different games - there is no ideal type of player/playing style, just the player who wins the most matches. Nadal and Federer both know how to win more than the other players. Nole may be learning of course...

We need to put things in perspective here when we talk about weaknesses - we are merely talking about areas other players are able to exploit at the top level. For the reasons above I dont agree that Federer is 'much' better than Nadal - the facts surrounding career achievements dont support it. Plus Nadal has been winning titles, Masters and slams without having to always face Federer but the fact he has won 5 of his 9 slams versus Federer where all others have largely failed indicates he's quite a talented player who can find and exploit weaknesses in Federer's game that others cant.

Nadal on the contrary is so smart in exploiting all the weaknesses in Fed's game.

I think the difference is subtle here: Nadal has more limitations in comparison to Federer while Fed has probably more weaknesses in his game.

Two great champ. and a great rivalry though!

gboycottnut

"Federer can easily give the Spaniard a defeat tommorow"

-------------------------------------

I agree Fed has a chance, but there's no way he will "easily" defeat Rafa.

I hope Fed does it but my money's on Rafa.

Thanks for the post Socal. I'm not really here to defend Nadal per se, as I said I like all players of the game, its just really wearing to see a constant tirade against one player written as though its fact - it feels at times like views are rammed down people's throats with no margin for open-mindedness.

All that said, I am really looking forward to the match today - and as lovers of tennis who wouldnt be looking forward to it. I just hope the weather doesnt ruin the final with constant on-off breaks that stifle any build up of flow/momentum. I think it will be closer than 2008 though

Lydian- you are just exaggerating here. Tenez has expressed his opinion on Nadal and many do not agree with him. You can exist both on v2 and MTL. On MTL the responses are either very slow or they are very fast. There is hardly one one one discussions, even the new posts are not that prevalent.

Nadal has better h2h record but he still has some way to reach to 16 slams and the 23 slam finals record. Nadal is a tough one to beat but Djoko has now done that for 4 times ina row. Andy is coming close and hopefully he will not wilt on grass like he did last year but last year nadal was at his best. Remember his newfound serve during US open which no one could return.
Nadal is a legend of the game but whether he will overtake the heights achieved by fed or not. Only time will tell.

lydian wrote:Tenez, you keep peddling the same old tired rubbish ad nauseum. If we're to believe you all his amazing achievements are not due to having any talent at all - just muscles.

Of course, his muscles are just there to look good and please the girls Lydian. It's not the first time you try to convince us (yourself rather) with absurd statements. Trying to minimise the physical factor in Nadal's game won't make you a fair or savvy poster.

Regarding his talent and variety, I can think of 20 players easily who have more. I cannot think of players relying so much on their power and stamina.

I totally understand where you're coming from, Lydian, and support everything you say. This place as a tennis forum has so much potential, made more so by having people such as yourself posting here. I always enjoyed reading your comments over on 606 and to see you arrive here was a boost for v2, in my opinion.

Therefore to read that you are considering leaving is really sad, but you are correct. I think its long past the point where you try to ignore the ad nauseum rubbish because its spread everywhere, and it doesn't just turn off the Nadal fans. We all do this because we love the game, and we enjoy sharing and reading all our views on it and the players. But when the same negative rubbish is trotted out over and over again, its just a turn off. It ceases to become debate and is tantamount to being spam. Hence, the really good people consider leaving.

I sympathise with those who have brought us 606v2 who are trying really hard to make this a good place for all us. You can't legislate for who arrives and you can't dictate what is said, but all their hard work is undermined because people just get bored and tired of the same old negative vibe.

What has always astounded me about the rabid anti-Nadal posters is that they do come from a place of genuine tennis knowledge. But rather than bring us all the positive stuff they know and understand about the game, their attention seems focused solely on the denigration of one man. You don't like Nadal, fine, but what about all the other stuff that you can bring about tennis that is positive? Try focusing on that for a while, or is your fun on tennis boards really just about having a go about an individual player and winding members of the public up?

Please re-consider Lydian, because so many of us do appreciate what you bring to this place. Sure, MTL is enjoyed by the people who use it but what you don't get is the constant adding of articles and true tennis discussion that you get here on a daily basis.

Now there's a final being played today. So here's hoping for a good one!!

tenez- if muscles had anything to do then djoko wouldn't have that unbeaten run. None of the top 4 players are that muscular, even nadal does not have that heavy biceps anymore.

Also, going by your logic Schwarzenger would have been a tennis legend too.

I dont want to see a tit4tat argument.
Keep it friendly, keep it on topic and debate the match.

even nadal does not have that heavy biceps anymore.
------------------------------

Really? Must be my 16:9 screen then.

Y I Man wrote:I dont want to see a tit4tat argument.
Keep it friendly, keep it on topic and debate the match.

hmm flexing muscles Mr Moderator.

Also, it might seem a bit extreme, but there is a friends and foe option on v2.
On your profile, click friends or foes.
If you add a user to the foe list, you will not see any of their posts. (You cant block admin or mods though)

wow wrote:

Y I Man wrote:I dont want to see a tit4tat argument.
Keep it friendly, keep it on topic and debate the match.

hmm flexing muscles Mr Moderator.

You mean Mr Administrator.

The petty bickering is getting silly. One of the greatest matches awaits. Lets keep it friendly eh?

It is going to be a great match today. Federer is looking much better on the clay. I am pleased he has got his Backhand working again. Nadal has peaked in this tournament when it has mattered most. It will be interesting to see if Federer starts aggressive, or whether he will try to settle himself into the match first. The first set against Djokovic was an example of how variety in his play and how he managed to then run away with the second set. Think Federer would settle for a first set tiebreak today. Hope his serve holds up too. Wonder if Nadal will be start to unleash that forehand and try to dictate points from the off.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11400000/djoko-novak-djokovic-11452009-500-412.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fanpop.com/spots/novak-djokovic/images/11452009/title/djoko-photo&usg=__wxs8TQv7UwTO2Pr9oeJZ4scD9A4=&h=412&w=500&sz=34&hl=en&start=0&sig2=qgOTLnUXd7zIg9jQROEPwA&zoom=1&tbnid=4pSCxszLGom3EM:&tbnh=165&tbnw=186&ei=TWLrTb2dGs2d-wb_65zCDw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dshirtless%2Bdjoko%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D658%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=556&vpy=96&dur=380&hovh=204&hovw=247&tx=111&ty=58&page=1&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&biw=1024&bih=658

This is the man who has won 4 matches ina row against Nadal. He is a skinny individual. Your logic is flawed tenez.

Y I Man wrote:

wow wrote:

Y I Man wrote:I dont want to see a tit4tat argument.
Keep it friendly, keep it on topic and debate the match.

hmm flexing muscles Mr Moderator.

You mean Mr Administrator.

The petty bickering is getting silly. One of the greatest matches awaits. Lets keep it friendly eh?

That was a friendly jibe only. TBF this is why I like this forum more than MTL.

Hence the wink from me Wow.

People are getting sick of the constant bashing of a certain player.
This thread is for the match, if some want to debate Rafa and his flaws, ability etc please make a new thread for it to keep it in one place instead of it polluting other threads all the time.

Thanks for the comments guys (socal, wooffie, wow).

On one level its petty bickering but on another its a continuation of the same almost-obsessive vitriol we used to see on BBC 606 which wound so many posters up and led to that posters ban, so its frustrating to see it carried over to 606v2.

Anyway, I'm happy to drop it but hope that other posters have discussions with more balance and open-mindedness. Agree the sense of fun here is good - hence why I joined after stopping posting at 606 for months.

Great final in prospect and as tennis lovers surely we're all up for this one. Lets hope the rain doesnt make it a stop/start final.