Nacewa - Fiji caps

Watching the Wales-Baa Baa'a game yesterday I saw that Nacewa only has one cap for Fiji, back in 2003. How has he not got more? Has he made the decision not to play for his country or something?

You would have thought a player that has held down a place for a few years now in one of the best teams in Europe would be an every present in a team like Fiji.

On a side note, Martyn Williams is looking a bit past it isn't he?

That really is an amzing stat when you come to think just how talented he is.

RDW_Scotland wrote:On a side note, Martyn Williams is looking a bit past it isn't he?

A bit!

He doesn't want to play for Fiji.

The story goes that he was dual qualified for New Zealand and Fiji, and Fiji asked him to turn out for them. He wanted to play for New Zealand but was convinced by Fijian officials that playing for them would not stop him from becoming an All Black.

He played, then found out it meant he was no longer eligible for New Zealand, and vowed never to play for Fiji again.

Then I admire and pity him in equal amounts. Oh well, well done Leinster. He's a BaBaas cert anyway.

Cheers LCDPete, there had to be some reason as to why a great player like this has only 1 international cap.

It was Fiji's loss and Leinster's gain. Had he played for the AB's, we would never have seen this man help us win 2 x HC's and grace the NH.

It is a shame for him though. I would have loved to have seen him light up a really good Fiji side and maybe make the QF's of the RWC.

You would have thought he would have done his homework regarding eligibility also wanting to play for a particular country is one thing being selected is another.

I don't know Gibbo, he's taken a principled stance, good on him, but he can't then moan about his plight.

There was an article in the Times about it a few weeks ago, he still gets letters from the Fijian rugby board inviting him on tours and to the world cup but hes refused them all.

Cymroglan wrote:You would have thought he would have done his homework regarding eligibility also wanting to play for a particular country is one thing being selected is another.

He was a teenaged boy and impressionable. Though one would have hoped that his management (assuming he had any at the time) would have done their homework. 2 minutes of international rugby (Fiji threw him on at the end of a match to tie him in) is far far too little for a man of his talent.

Glas a du wrote:I don't know Gibbo, he's taken a principled stance, good on him, but he can't then moan about his plight.

He never moaned Glas. He moved on and never mentioned it again. Others do ( The press, us) . He is totally committed to Leinster. That's just me bemoaning the fact we will never see his sublime talent at the RWC. It's his call.

He was told/lied to/conned, that it would not affect his AB chances. When he found out it did - he was gutted. I admire his principles. It is something severely lacking in a few "top" players these days.

You're quite right. I just hope he doesn't regret it. You're a long time retired.

Glas a du wrote:You're quite right. I just hope he doesn't regret it. You're a long time retired.

Of course he regrets it. He will never get to represent his country, ever. He only has the option of representing a country he has only ever visited.

He should have a word with his team mate Richardt Strauss

Notch wrote:

Glas a du wrote:You're quite right. I just hope he doesn't regret it. You're a long time retired.

Of course he regrets it. He will never get to represent his country, ever. He only has the option of representing a country he has only ever visited.

I meant his decision not the circumstances of his cap.

My dad went to buy a paper today and there was a guy in the shop ranting at the owner about yesterday's match. When he saw my dad he said "now this is a man who could show them how they should play!". He'd played against my dad. My dad retired when he was 23. He said he now regrets that decision. That was 45 years ago!

Glas a du wrote:

Notch wrote:

Glas a du wrote:You're quite right. I just hope he doesn't regret it. You're a long time retired.

Of course he regrets it. He will never get to represent his country, ever. He only has the option of representing a country he has only ever visited.

I meant his decision not the circumstances of his cap.

My dad went to buy a paper today and there was a guy in the shop ranting at the owner about yesterday's match. When he saw my dad he said "now this is a man who could show them how they should play!". He'd played against my dad. My dad retired when he was 23. He said he now regrets that decision. That was 45 years ago!

Jayz Glas, and when you look at John Hayes, he's older than your Dad and still playing... :run2:

Gibson wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

Notch wrote:

Glas a du wrote:You're quite right. I just hope he doesn't regret it. You're a long time retired.

Of course he regrets it. He will never get to represent his country, ever. He only has the option of representing a country he has only ever visited.

I meant his decision not the circumstances of his cap.

My dad went to buy a paper today and there was a guy in the shop ranting at the owner about yesterday's match. When he saw my dad he said "now this is a man who could show them how they should play!". He'd played against my dad. My dad retired when he was 23. He said he now regrets that decision. That was 45 years ago!

Jayz Glas, and when you look at John Hayes, he's older than your Dad and still playing... :run2:

And getting better with age . . . . well sort of. He's better at age 37 than at age 36

I know what the IRB rules are but surely the IRB should of looked into his case and possibly sanctioned Fiji under those circumstances. Though how he couldnt know about the eligibility rules with all the granny gate, and fuss around over the last few years is beyond me.

AlynDavies wrote:I know what the IRB rules are but surely the IRB should of looked into his case and possibly sanctioned Fiji under those circumstances. Though how he couldnt know about the eligibility rules with all the granny gate, and fuss around over the last few years is beyond me.

Nacewa and NZRU appealed to the IRB a few years back. IRB said sorry, but no exceptions.

Would he have had any more than a handful of caps for the All Blacks anyway?

AlynDavies wrote:I know what the IRB rules are but surely the IRB should of looked into his case and possibly sanctioned Fiji under those circumstances. Though how he couldnt know about the eligibility rules with all the granny gate, and fuss around over the last few years is beyond me.

That route was taken Alan. A big NO was the answer. And he's Kiwi BORN. IRB said he was a Fijian "citizen". Hmmmmmm... How does that work? Especially, when you think of some of the Kiwi players in the past, who were NOT Kiwi. He is.

Best FB in the NH by far. Wish he'd declared for Ireland. Id lie and say I "knew" his Ma in the Biblical sense. Or his Grannie. Im not proud and very fertile. Yup. Guaranteed Irish Passport. 8)

Gibson wrote:Wish he'd declared for Ireland.

Why? This baffles me Gibson it really does. You continually go on about how your dream is to have 15 Irishmen winning a Heineken Cup with Leinster and yet you advocate having guys like him and Strauss in the Irish national set up on the grounds they are better than our current crop.

The role foreign signings play is to raise the standard of our boys not replace them. As you say he is a NZ born player who opted to play for another team and will forever regret it. I think Nacewas example is a clear warning to the likes of Barritt the South African who holds an English passport. Be sure you choose the right country or you may regret it.

Nacewa probably would have found his way to the Northern Hemisphere anyway, because when he was in NZ he was nowhere near the standard of Mils Muliaina. It's only when he came North he really found himself as a player, and even found his best position. I doubt he'd have had much of an All Blacks career.

He'd be in the same boat as Xavier Rush or Regan King.

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:Wish he'd declared for Ireland.

Why? This baffles me Gibson it really does. You continually go on about how your dream is to have 15 Irishmen winning a Heineken Cup with Leinster and yet you advocate having guys like him and Strauss in the Irish national set up on the grounds they are better than our current crop.

The role foreign signings play is to raise the standard of our boys not replace them. As you say he is a NZ born player who opted to play for another team and will forever regret it. I think Nacewas example is a clear warning to the likes of Barritt the South African who holds an English passport. Be sure you choose the right country or you may regret it.

Yeah, it is weird. You'd be happy to fill the national team with Kiwis and Saffers. Very English of you!

I knew it. Was expecting it. He would have been handy for the RWC though eh?

Well Ulster are happy to deprive young Irish players of a place in the squad - filling their team with Saffers. Call me Francis. Neil Francis.

Look, if I have to spell it out for ye both, I will.

Irish players for Irish teams. Always.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the IRB. He is a KIWI. Not a Fijian. So hence the Irish angle rub. We hand out Passports like sweets.

Gibson wrote:Well Ulster are happy to deprive young Irish players of a place in the squad - filling their team with Saffers. Call me Francis. Neil Francis.

I know its tongue in cheek from you Gibbo but I have to pick up on it as its a common thing thrown at Ulster. I think Ulster suffer because their signigns are nearly all South African - Botha, Muller, Wannenburg, Pienaar, Danielli and Diack - thats 5 South Africans and 1 Scot.

Leinster and Munster are just as bad - Wright, van der Merwe, Hines, Nacewa, Strauss and Berne for Leinster. Munster have du Preez, Borlase, Warwick, Mafi, Tuitupou and Howlett.

We have 6 each. The difference is that at Munster and Leinster the foreign guys are back up. Ulster are doing what we used to do and have them starting.

Don't be so short-termist. You should be lining him up with some athletic Irish bird and thinking of the future.

Gibson wrote:Look, if I have to spell it out for ye both, I will.

Irish players for Irish teams. Always.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the IRB. He is a KIWI. Not a Fijian. So hence the Irish angle rub. We hand out Passports like sweets.

Gibbo it isn't hypocrisy. He is a Kiwi who was eligable for Fiji. He played for them and then was ineligable for NZ.

Its like if Strauss chooses to play for Ireland and then realises his dream of being a Springbok. Players need to be sure of what they want.

Rush. One thing Isa is NOT. Xavier Rush deserved what he got. I lost so much respect for him. Should have gone to Ulster and been a man of his word. A man of Principle. Like Isa.

Karma bit Rush in the arrse. He made the wrong decision. Stayed with a since-failing club - instead of going - as agreed by contract, to a club which is now on the up. It made me smile, I have to admit.

Ulster are far better off without him. Look who they got in instead.

I was joking about the Saffers btw. As long as they leave a legacy, Ulster will grow from it.

Gibson wrote:Rush. One thing Isa is NOT. Xavier Rush deserved what he got. I lost so much respect for him. Should have gone to Ulster and been a man of his word. A man of Principle. Like Isa.

If a player doesn't want to be at a club then you really can't force him. And you don't want someone you have to force to be there. Ospreys have their hands full with Phillips at the moment and no one has come out of it smelling good.

He could also have only had one cap for New Zealand just to ensure he would not qualify for anybody else.
He chose to play for Fiji at the highest level and to think he could then switch allegiance is rather naive by anybodies standards.

I wasn't comparing Rush to Nacewa in any other way other than they never succeeded as Super 14 players, only to find the best form of their careers when they moved to the Northern Hemisphere.

Notch wrote:I wasn't comparing Rush to Nacewa in any other way other than they never succeeded as Super 14 players, only to find the best form of their careers when they moved to the Northern Hemisphere.

Fair enough Notch.

But how many have come North and failed? So many. I do believe that true quality, given its rein - will always out, no matter what system it plays in. In fact, scrap believe, it's just true. A lot of SH players have been vastly overrated imo. Lost & average at best, outside the comfort of their own system.

But, that's for another article.

P. S. Nacewa did succeed as a S14 player and would have continued to do so. It's why we got him in. It took Schmidt - an ex-colleague, to bring out the best in him up here.

I wonder will things ever reach a situation where we have Northern players moving in numbers down under.

red_stag wrote:I wonder will things ever reach a situation where we have Northern players moving in numbers down under.

No. I dont think so. It takes big money to attract the top players and they dont have it. They cant even sell out tickets for most of the RWC games - except for the NZ ones. We are growing in crowd numbers and financially. They are slowly dying in crowd numbers and financially.

It is a huge worry for our game in a World perspective. Dare I say it? We need the Yanks , South America and Japan, to really come on board, for it to grow, imo.

Add the Russians and it's oil-rich neighbours to that.

Gibson wrote:

red_stag wrote:I wonder will things ever reach a situation where we have Northern players moving in numbers down under.

No. I dont think so. It takes big money to attract the top players and they dont have it. They cant even sell out tickets for most of the RWC games - except for the NZ ones. We are growing in crowd numbers and financially. They are slowly dying in crowd numbers and financially.

It is a huge worry for our game in a World perspective. Dare I say it? We need the Yanks , South America and Japan, to really come on board, for it to grow, imo.

Yeah Gibsons right, the Southern Hemisphere sides need big cash which they don't have, and the Northern Hemisphere sides would need good players, which they don't have.

And too a few posts above about Nacewa not getting more than a handful of caps. Your right to an extent, against Cullen and Muliani a young or a nacewa from a few years ago wouldn't have gotten an insight. He's really bloomed over the past year, albeit he was never bad, underused and switched around perhaps.

I'd argue he's the form fullback in the world.

1)Nacewa
2)Beale
3)Foden
*daylight*
4)

DaDubs1 wrote:And too a few posts above about Nacewa not getting more than a handful of caps. Your right to an extent, against Cullen and Muliani a young or a nacewa from a few years ago wouldn't have gotten an insight. He's really bloomed over the past year, albeit he was never bad, underused and switched around perhaps.

I'd argue he's the form fullback in the world.

1)Nacewa
2)Beale
3)Foden
*daylight*
4)

But would you have him ahead of Muliaina? I wouldn't. That's who he'd have been up against. The best fullback of the last decade.

Foden is superb. Best natural rugby player England have produced in years, imo. Outplayed Nacewa in the Diff. Made shoite of BOD's defence far too many times for my liking. Exposed the fact, that his days are nearly over at top level.

I know, he was 70% fit. But, its a worry vs the speedsters from Oz.

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:Well Ulster are happy to deprive young Irish players of a place in the squad - filling their team with Saffers. Call me Francis. Neil Francis.

I know its tongue in cheek from you Gibbo but I have to pick up on it as its a common thing thrown at Ulster. I think Ulster suffer because their signigns are nearly all South African - Botha, Muller, Wannenburg, Pienaar, Danielli and Diack - thats 5 South Africans and 1 Scot.

Leinster and Munster are just as bad - Wright, van der Merwe, Hines, Nacewa, Strauss and Berne for Leinster. Munster have du Preez, Borlase, Warwick, Mafi, Tuitupou and Howlett.

We have 6 each. The difference is that at Munster and Leinster the foreign guys are back up. Ulster are doing what we used to do and have them starting.

Oh, that's good, had me rolling on the floor laughing, one of your funniest moments ever!!! Did you really just suggest that those guys are all back-ups or an I misreading?

Notch wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:And too a few posts above about Nacewa not getting more than a handful of caps. Your right to an extent, against Cullen and Muliani a young or a nacewa from a few years ago wouldn't have gotten an insight. He's really bloomed over the past year, albeit he was never bad, underused and switched around perhaps.
I'd argue he's the form fullback in the world.
1)Nacewa
2)Beale
3)Foden
*daylight*
4)

But would you have him ahead of Muliaina? I wouldn't. That's who he'd have been up against. The best fullback of the last decade.

That's a bit of a circular argument Notch. Muialina is very good, and for the All Blacks has been surrounded by other very good players. Had the shoe been on the other foot I'm sure somebody would be describing Nacewa in precicsely the same terms.

Well, in Munsters starting team only Mafi and Howlett are first choice since Warwick has lost his place. For Leinster only Strauss, Hines and Nacewa are first choice. The majority of their NIQ players ARE squad players.

Next year, they'll have about 3 NIQ players apiece in their strongest team whereas Ulster will have around 6.

Glas a du wrote:Don't be so short-termist. You should be liming him up with some athletic Irish bird and thinking of the future.

Liming him up Glas? Ouch. That hurts man. Tried it.

But, I really like yer long-term - style.

Play the White(limed)-man why doncha? 8)

Glas a du wrote:

Notch wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:And too a few posts above about Nacewa not getting more than a handful of caps. Your right to an extent, against Cullen and Muliani a young or a nacewa from a few years ago wouldn't have gotten an insight. He's really bloomed over the past year, albeit he was never bad, underused and switched around perhaps.
I'd argue he's the form fullback in the world.
1)Nacewa
2)Beale
3)Foden
*daylight*
4)

But would you have him ahead of Muliaina? I wouldn't. That's who he'd have been up against. The best fullback of the last decade.

That's a bit of a circular argument Notch. Muialina is very good, and for the All Blacks has been surrounded by other very good players. Had the shoe been on the other foot I'm sure somebody would be describing Nacewa in precicsely the same terms.

Muliaina is one of the greatest players of the professional era, he stands on his own merits not on the players around him. It doesn't hurt of course! But really he is just an exceptional fullback. Nacewa is also a fine player but when he was in NZ he wasn't in the same class- he wasn't always utilised in a way that allowed him to fulfill his potential. Hence why I think he would have found his chances limited. It's his move to the Northern Hemisphere that has been the catalyst for his improvement into a truly brilliant fullback; it also would have been the end of his (purely hypothetical) international career anyway.

All speculative of course. It is the close season Glas. Are you seriously looking for arguments of genuine significance?

It's all 'what ifs'. We engage in it willingly because of the lack of actual rugby games to discuss

I agree Notch, and apparently Mils was back on form for the Chiefs yesterday.

I think Nacewa would have had more than a few caps, though perhaps not many starts, as he'd have filled the bench impact utility role that latterly Jane, Toeava and Dagg have filled. The Blues used him in every position from 10 to 15, which probably held his development back somewhat.

Aren't Cardiff bar stewards.

Notch

Gibson, why am I not surprised?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:Well Ulster are happy to deprive young Irish players of a place in the squad - filling their team with Saffers. Call me Francis. Neil Francis.

I know its tongue in cheek from you Gibbo but I have to pick up on it as its a common thing thrown at Ulster. I think Ulster suffer because their signigns are nearly all South African - Botha, Muller, Wannenburg, Pienaar, Danielli and Diack - thats 5 South Africans and 1 Scot.

Leinster and Munster are just as bad - Wright, van der Merwe, Hines, Nacewa, Strauss and Berne for Leinster. Munster have du Preez, Borlase, Warwick, Mafi, Tuitupou and Howlett.

We have 6 each. The difference is that at Munster and Leinster the foreign guys are back up. Ulster are doing what we used to do and have them starting.

Oh, that's good, had me rolling on the floor laughing, one of your funniest moments ever!!! Did you really just suggest that those guys are all back-ups or an I misreading?

Not all of them. Munsters starting team has 13 Irishmen, Mafi and Howlett. Leinsters starting team has 12 Irishmen, Strauss, Hines and Nacewa. The likes of Tuitupou, Warwick, du Preez, Borlase, Berne, Wright and van der Merwe have played a lot of rugby for us. But they are not part of our starting XVs.

All of Ulsters foreign signings (or maybe 5/6) are in their starting XV. It makes it seem as though there are more foreign players at Ulster when in reality we all have the same.