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GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ??

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GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ?? Empty GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ??

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 11:53

I'm seeing a welterweight who isn't lightning fast and doesn't carry huge power at 147.....A welterweight that isn't the most defensively efficient and a guy that went life and death with the ordinary Jones and narrowly outpointed the rugged but decent Shawn Porter...Moving up two weights to fight the best fighter in the sport......(Brook has improved but his weaknesses remain)

Hearn's only line of spin seems to be that both are the best in their divisions and Brook will be better at middle... which like I wrote on an earlier thread makes one wonder why he's never campaigned at 154 ???.....If he's not as good at welter why campaign there ??......

Of course in the last 30 or so years there have been admirable efforts from welters to claim the middle by jumping two divisions and avoiding 154...........Nunn v Starling being one.......A very good performance by Marlon against a great middle.......But Starling had one of the best defences the game has ever seen and Nunn wasn't really a pressure fighter........Nunn won a majority but it was close !!!

I see a lot of Azumah Nelson in GGG.........one of these fighters who appears to be all over you even when he isn't......He'll make you work three minutes a round while every so often banging in some hurtful and wearing combinations.....Decent speed....Accuracy...Great footwork....Good tank and defensively sound........

Like Nelson he's a master craftsman.............

For me any advantages Brook has are negated at the higher weight...He's hitting bigger men and the extra weight will slow him down...

Yes these guys are both the best in their divisions but it is "13 pounds" and GGG to me is the better fighter anyway.....If we are talking two weight classes and the same poundage (bar 1 pound)....Would anyone have wanted to see Ward v Canelo at 168 ???


I can't see a good fight but I've been wrong plenty of times..

If anyone can make a case for Brook I'd love to hear it ......Maybe even convince me to buy it because the jury is out on that one..

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Post by AdamT on Mon 15 Aug - 11:54

I'm sure it's a good thread and will read it later when I get time.

For now, the short answer is no. Not a chance in hell!

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Post by AdamT on Mon 15 Aug - 12:28

Have read it. No can't make a case for Brook. I'm a sucker and will still pay for it.

GGG 7th round stoppage. I think he will take his time and break Brook down, round by round.

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Post by Guest on Mon 15 Aug - 13:03

Life and death with Jones....only after gassing midway, up to that point his boxing was beautiful. Poor conditioning was to blame for his struggles, he and his team admitted as much.

As for "making a case" for Brook, in the same way some people said that Mike Tyson's involuntary head twitch made him vulnerable, I'll choose this "flaw" in GGG. All I've noticed is that, on occasion, he can over-reach with shots and has sometimes throw a few wild swings which could leave him vulnerable to a good counter puncher. If Brook's speed and reflexes are carried up to MW (jury's obviously still out on that) then there's chance that he could capitalize on any mistakes GGG might make.

There, case made. That being said, I think GGG wins but believe Brook will give a better account of himself than most think on here....especially given that if he makes it past three rounds he'll have done about fifteen times better than some think he will.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 15 Aug - 13:04

A few thoughts why he hasn't campaigned at 54? Maybe welterweight being the blue riband glamorous division as opposed to 54 which has always been seen as a lesser division only McCallun I can think of who brought the division any prestige and even then he could hardly land a big fight?

I don't like that this fight is happening before Brook established himself as top dog at 47. I only like a fighter to challenge a consensus number one in a weight above when he has proved himself the number one in his division. That's how it always used to be done or at least that's the way it seemed.

That's the nitpicking out the way the fight itself well if Brook had beaten Thurman then I'd be buzzing for it still a good fight whereas I gave Amir no chance literally zero chance against Canelo at least you can make a case for Brook you could say he's maybe the best boxer Golovkin will have faced he's got the toughness and a little of the unknown will he be stronger at the weight. Not having a go at the op because my opinions are diametrically opposed on this one you can make a case for Brook couldn't for Khan just hope Brook can still make some good fights at welter Golovkin has been known to ruin fighters

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 13:11

Sorry Hermy but if he was better at 154 he'd campaign there..Boxing is a tough sport

As for blue riband..Middle should be better than 168...But does anyone care these days ?

There is heavy now and then everything else..

Best boxer he has faced no doubt...But Crolla would probably be the best "boxer" Brook has faced but you wouldn't give him a chance at 147..

Don't worry about having a go..It's all good fun.


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Post by bellchees on Mon 15 Aug - 13:27

Can't see anyway Brook can win, I'd pick GGG if they were the same size based on style and ability. I think Brook is competitive for 2 rounds while GGG has warms up and sees what Brook has to offer then he gets busted up for a mid-late stoppage between Rounds 6-9. Don't think we'll see a highlight reel KO though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 13:29

DAVE667 wrote:Life and death with Jones....only after gassing midway, up to that point his boxing was beautiful. Poor conditioning was to blame for his struggles, he and his team admitted as much.

As for "making a case" for Brook,  in the same way some people said that Mike Tyson's involuntary head twitch made him vulnerable, I'll choose this "flaw" in GGG. All I've noticed is that, on occasion, he can over-reach with shots and has sometimes throw a few wild swings which could leave him vulnerable to a good counter puncher. If Brook's speed and reflexes are carried up to MW (jury's obviously still out on that) then there's chance that he could capitalize on any mistakes GGG might make.

There, case made. That being said, I think GGG wins but believe Brook will give a better account of himself than most think on here....especially given that if he makes it past three rounds he'll have done about fifteen times better than some think he will.

He got hit plenty against Jones and Porter....How and why are irrelevant...

If he gassed against Carson then how is he going to cope with constant pressure........and he will have to fight every second of every round because that is GGG's great skill...Letting you do all the work..Watch the Macklin fight..

Like I said though I've been wrong a-plenty..

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Post by Guest on Mon 15 Aug - 14:07

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Life and death with Jones....only after gassing midway, up to that point his boxing was beautiful. Poor conditioning was to blame for his struggles, he and his team admitted as much.

As for "making a case" for Brook,  in the same way some people said that Mike Tyson's involuntary head twitch made him vulnerable, I'll choose this "flaw" in GGG. All I've noticed is that, on occasion, he can over-reach with shots and has sometimes throw a few wild swings which could leave him vulnerable to a good counter puncher. If Brook's speed and reflexes are carried up to MW (jury's obviously still out on that) then there's chance that he could capitalize on any mistakes GGG might make.

There, case made. That being said, I think GGG wins but believe Brook will give a better account of himself than most think on here....especially given that if he makes it past three rounds he'll have done about fifteen times better than some think he will.

He got hit plenty against Jones and Porter....How and why are irrelevant...

If he gassed against Carson then how is he going to cope with constant pressure........and he will have to fight every second of every round because that is GGG's great skill...Letting you do all the work..Watch the Macklin fight..

Like I said though I've been wrong a-plenty..
Lack of conditioning caused him to gas against Jones, something he's since rectified. I watched the Macklin fight, Macklin's always been gung ho and IMO Brook's a far better/smarter fighter than Macklin. Would also suggest that most GGG's opponents these days are scared to death before the get in the ring and go into their shell leaving GGG to do as he pleases. Eubank said that before he fought Benn he had to have the mindset that he knew he was going to get hit hard and often but to remain faithful to his own chin, conditioning, boxing ability and self-belief. Brook's fought through adversity (in and out of the ring) and not to dismiss GG in any way, has he ever been in trouble for a minute in his ring career.

As said before, strange how you could make a case for Khan v Canelo when the guy's shown on numerous occasions that his chin and desire to go to war have been his downfall but Brook has even less chance against a guy you don't rate that highly

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Post by AdamT on Mon 15 Aug - 14:11

I personally give Brook the same chance as Khan. Absolute zilch!

If Brook was a natural MW, I would still struggle to make a case.

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Post by Guest on Mon 15 Aug - 14:29

I don't give him much of a chance either but I was asked to "make a case" for him not state with absolute certainty how and why he'd win. The only possible way I'd do that is if it was announced that GGG had just died.

Outside of that, I'm going to say that Brook has got one hell of a hard night ahead but I wish him all the luck in the world. I like him and it would be great to see him do it in front of his home fans against one the best fighters currently operating today.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 15 Aug - 14:46

DAVE667 wrote:I don't give him much of a chance either but I was asked to "make a case" for him not state with absolute certainty how and why he'd win. The only possible way I'd do that is if it was announced that GGG had just died.

Outside of that, I'm going to say that Brook has got one hell of a hard night ahead but I wish him all the luck in the world. I like him and it would be great to see him do it in front of his home fans against one the best fighters currently operating today.

I like him too. Hopefully he proves everyone wrong.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 15:52

DAVE667 wrote:I don't give him much of a chance either but I was asked to "make a case" for him not state with absolute certainty how and why he'd win. The only possible way I'd do that is if it was announced that GGG had just died.

Outside of that, I'm going to say that Brook has got one hell of a hard night ahead but I wish him all the luck in the world. I like him and it would be great to see him do it in front of his home fans against one the best fighters currently operating today.

I'd pick the Macklin that fought GGG to beat Brook.........Brook gets caught too much and he isn't a huge hitter at 147...He's a talented fighter but he isn't Ray Leonard......Not sure Leonard could turn GGG over at 160.....

I'd only back Jones Jr and the Nunn that beat Tate...(Haven't seen Greb no one has)and even then with some reluctance..

I could see Canelo struggling early with Khan's speed.............Brook isn't blessed with that speed and he'll have less of it with more meat on him at 160..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 16:38

bellchees wrote:Can't see anyway Brook can win, I'd pick GGG if they were the same size based on style and ability. I think Brook is competitive for 2 rounds while GGG has warms up and sees what Brook has to offer then he gets busted up for a mid-late stoppage between Rounds 6-9. Don't think we'll see a highlight reel KO though.

Nail on the head for me.........I wouldn't pick him to win if they were the same size....

Another problem with the fight is that they are being paid so much that the undercard will probably be sparse...

£18 isn't that much dough but I kind of resent paying it......For this..

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 15 Aug - 17:06

I'm with Dave. I think Kell will give a good account of himself and surprise a few people with how well he can box on even terms with Golovkin.

Ultimately, though, Golovkin's natural size advantages will allow him to overpower Kell late (the Jones fights are slightly bogus in that he completely changed his fitness regimen after the first fight).

Brook is a really good fighter - I'd take him over someone like Macklin at 160 and the likes of Cotto and Canelo at 154.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 17:15

You never know but I think he gets caught too much to have beaten Canelo or Macklin..

Lest not forget no one would have cried foul had Porter got the decision...and that was his last serious fight..

But it's all about what you see and I'd love to be wrong about GGG in September..

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Post by Mr Bounce on Mon 15 Aug - 17:21

I also reckon Brook will give a better account of himself than many of us believe. I think it will be a one-sided war with Brook throwing plenty back at GGG whilst getting busted up by GGG's heavier & more accurate shots. Think this'll be an accumulation of damage that'll get it stopped. Brook will look like he's just stepped out of the ring with an angry tiger and GGG looking more like he's just got off the bike at the gym. TKO end of 10.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 15 Aug - 17:57

Only because ggg is that good

If it was another middleweight he would have a chance

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug - 18:11

Like I said if Porter had got the decision at 147 no one would have complained too much..

He's the best fighter he's fought..

Are supposed to believe he slaps fully grown middles apart from GGG about ...."Two" divisions above.

Bit of a stretch buddy.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 15 Aug - 18:18

I agree. Struggling with Shawn Porter is no way near good enough for GGG.

It would take a special smaller fighter, like Floyd, Duran or Leonard to fight GGG. Brook I a very good fighter, but the only special thing about him, is his nickname.

I always backed Brook to beat Khan, but that's a close fight. I would love to see that next, when this farce ends.

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Post by RanjitPatel on Mon 15 Aug - 18:37

I can't make any case for Brook even making it to the second half of the fight. 3/4 rounds and it'll be all over. Wobbled by Senchenko isn't going to cut the mustard against GGG.

I would have said the same if Floyd, Manny, Thurman or any other Welterweight was going up against GGG so no slight on Brook. He's too small and GGG is a better fighter that knocks out full middleweights every fight.

Seen a lot of people on twitter say that Kell would have beaten every one of GGG's opponents so far as a way of saying he's unproven. No chance when you've got people like Murray and Lemieux in that list.

Hyperbole before a fight has to be expected but when we've all see them both fight numerous times I can't see how anyone gives Kell any hope. Even if he had a lot of things going in his favour, stylistically he can't win.

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Post by Nico the gman on Mon 15 Aug - 22:02

Brook fan, but a bridge too far, GGG's got too much of everything in this one,size power, style, GGG wins between 6 and 8.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 10:08

I was interested in the Eubank fight....He's a natural middle and though not a devastating puncher had enough not to let GGG take liberties..Coupled with his arrogance and speed it may have been interesting for a while..

Also might have been fun seeing him get the crap slapped out of him..

But I like Kell so I don't really want to see him leathered.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 10:48

I really don't think Brook will take a leathering.

He'll probably make Golovkin look a bit pedestrian at times and my hunch is he catches one late, wobbles and then is stopped.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 10:48

Eternal optimist..

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 11:16

Brook's problem is that in the vast majority of his contests he's been in control of his opponent (even Porter to a large degree). He won't be here.

I think that will bring the best out of him but it's the natural size that will scupper him. It's why I hate catchweights - they're largely pointless (and rarely result in great fights).

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Post by Coxy001 on Tue 16 Aug - 12:06

I give Brook a small chance. Not exactly goingto be piling it on him to win though. Suspect he'll use his superior speed to win rounds before GGG catches up with him. If he doesn't get caught and boxes like a god for 12 rounds then he has a chance, he can't invite GGG on to him like he did with Porter and the ensuing brawl that ensued.. has to keep the distance a bit more than he did there.

Quicker than GGG - thought that counted for everything Trussywussy?


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 12:10

If you read the thread I said I don't think he will be quicker at 160..

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 12:17

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If you read the thread I said I don't think he will be quicker at 160..

He definitely will be.

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Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug - 12:19

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If you read the thread I said I don't think he will be quicker at 160..

He definitely will be.
How can you be so sure?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 12:21

Why is that ???.......He is going to be a stone heavier....

No "definites"

He isn't the quickest welter now......

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 12:28

DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If you read the thread I said I don't think he will be quicker at 160..

He definitely will be.
How can you be so sure?

He's much quicker now (that's visible just by watching them). He won't lose much in the way of speed moving up (who does these days - genuinely?).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 12:47

Sorry I asked

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Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug - 12:56

Think wires are getting crossed, I was of the opinion TRUSS was suggesting Brook wouldn't be faster at MW than he is at WW not that he's be faster than GGG.

You say he won't lose much speed, which tends to imply that he'd be a bit slower....

But hey, I may be wrong


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 12:59

That is was what I was suggesting..

Interesting how Haz moaned incessantly about Mayweather v Marquez and Guerrero..

Does Haz like GGG ??

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 13:40

Ah right. Why would Brook suddenly become faster even if he was staying at 147?

Truss - I'm not a fan of this fight. Golovkin dragging Brook up to 160 is exactly the same as Mayweather dragging Marquez up to 147 from 135. The only difference being that Mayweather had a tonne of better options. Golovkin either had this fight or no fight after Eubank made Hearn throw his dolls out. That and the fact Marquez started out at 126 (whereas Brook is a lifelong welter). Oh, and Brook has been scientifically beefed up - rather than eating more pies, drinkin pee and throwing rocks about (as Marquez did pre-Memo Heredia).

If you can find me arguing that Brook is a great scalp for Golovkin in the manner you did about Marquez and Guerrero then I'll hold my hands up.

I love the way you try to project GGG mania onto me to try and make yourself feel better about taking Floyd more personally than is healthy. I couldn't care less if Golovkin wins or loses - he's just great to watch.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 13:54

My argument is he's a welterweight so he is bound to be sharper there and he isn't as quick as a Khan or a Leonard...He's more of a technician like Curry and Starling..

He isn't going to be as fast in my opinion because of the extra weight...

Norris looked as sharp as Taylor at 154 and Taylor is the quickest fighter I've ever seen.

Think maybe you're trying to make this a better win for GGG than it is...who knows ??

I mean you have got form in this regard..

If you're right I'll be very pleased but history isn't on your side..

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 16 Aug - 14:12

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My argument is he's a welterweight so he is bound to be sharper there and he isn't as quick as a Khan or a Leonard...He's more of a technician like Curry and Starling..

He isn't going to be as fast in my opinion because of the extra weight...

Norris looked as sharp as Taylor at 154 and Taylor is the quickest fighter I've ever seen.

Think maybe you're trying to make this a better win for GGG than it is...who knows ??

I mean you have got form in this regard..

If you're right I'll be very pleased but history isn't on your side..

I can't make it a better win. It's the middleweight champion against the best welterweight in the world (probably - some may say Thurman) - a fighter who has no track record at 160. No more, no less.

Brook is quick and accurate. His accuracy and outstanding one-two are the facets that makes him special. I can't see the added weight hamper those, or his speed unduly.

It's core strength that matters, though. Golovkin is built like a boxer. Brook will look more like a bodybuilder in there (his arms are already huge).

Brook will put in his career-best shift I reckon. As I rate him very highly, I'd suggest that's enough to hang tough and perform better than many imagine.

That doesn't make it a better win for Golovkin (should that happen).

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue 16 Aug - 16:15

This fight comes down to skill more than size

GGG is more skillful, he will win because of that

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 16 Aug - 16:53

The weight is a big factor in this fight don't kid yourself....

If Brook can't hurt him or take his shot.....It becomes a pointless exercise.




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Post by AdamT on Tue 16 Aug - 19:51

I don't think Brook is the best Welter. I think Thurman and Spence would beat him. Also pick Jr Welter Crawford. I forgot about Pacquiao. I think he would still do a number on every Welter out there, if he comes in fully focused.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue 16 Aug - 21:39

How many middleweights can hurt ggg though?

He knocked out geale when he took a shot himself

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 17 Aug - 16:27

BoxingFan88 wrote:How many middleweights can hurt ggg though?

I imagine a fully fledged middle would have more chance than a blown up welter who doesn't carry the biggest punch at 147..

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 17 Aug - 23:30

Well yea that's true

See if brook really has drained himself like he says he has

I don't give anyone from 147 to 168 a chance of beating ggg anyway

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 18 Aug - 11:34

Some opinions from across the pond...........On GGG v Brook..

Brandon Rios - "He's only fought Shawn Porter and he only won that fight by clinging on".."He'll get knocked out at the press conference."

Robert Garcia - "I thought it was a joke"

Broner - "These kind of fights don't make sense..Somebody is gonna get hurt"

Paulie - "We have weight classes for a reason"..

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad - "He's gonna beat the brakes off Kell Brook...."

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Zab Judah - "Anything can happen when two men put gloves on....Brook has a chance"

Roy Jones jr - "Brook will be a competitive fight"...

Seems to be a lot more in the former direction.....Most view it like me as a mismatch..

Not seen anyone pick Brook to win...........

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Post by Guest82 on Thu 18 Aug - 16:29

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Some opinions from across the pond...........On GGG v Brook..

Brandon Rios - "He's only fought Shawn Porter and he only won that fight by clinging on".."He'll get knocked out at the press conference."

Robert Garcia - "I thought it was a joke"

Broner - "These kind of fights don't make sense..Somebody is gonna get hurt"

Paulie - "We have weight classes for a reason"..

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad - "He's gonna beat the brakes off Kell Brook...."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zab Judah - "Anything can happen when two men put gloves on....Brook has a chance"

Roy Jones jr - "Brook will be a competitive fight"...

Seems to be a lot more in the former direction.....Most view it like me as a mismatch..

Not seen anyone pick Brook to win...........

To be fair Brandon Rios probably has a personal issue with Brook.

Although worryingly Roy Jones also sees himself as competitive.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 18 Aug - 23:25

I like brook as a fighter... Since he improved his conditioning he's a much more complete fighter but... I just can't see this ending well for him.

However big a welter he is, he's putting on weight without any idea how it will effect his speed, timing etc. He's going to have to learn on the job without a warm-up gainst the worlds best middleweight... Who happens to hit like a mule.

Given that brook's defense is not really his strong suit... That he couldn't keep porter from swarming him at times, I just can't see him staying out of trouble.

Ultimately stranger things have happened, if brook turns out to have a great chin and a super-human resistance to body shots, then you never know... But I certainly won't be taking a punt in that happening.

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Post by Coxy001 on Fri 19 Aug - 9:36

Truss no endless amount of indirect Brook & GGG bashing will hide the fact you spent god knows how long and how many hundreds of posts banging on about how Khan "stands a chance" against Canelo.

If Brooks whiskers stand up (something you couldn't level at the above as once he got hit that was it) then who knows, he will be the faster of the two and using your argument against you "speed kills".

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug - 9:37

Would like to know who Brook is sparring with in preparation though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 19 Aug - 10:17

Canelo has shown he can be outboxed and Khan was/is lightning fast..

Hardly comparable...

But if you disagree that's fine.....

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