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GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 11:53 am

First topic message reminder :

I'm seeing a welterweight who isn't lightning fast and doesn't carry huge power at 147.....A welterweight that isn't the most defensively efficient and a guy that went life and death with the ordinary Jones and narrowly outpointed the rugged but decent Shawn Porter...Moving up two weights to fight the best fighter in the sport......(Brook has improved but his weaknesses remain)

Hearn's only line of spin seems to be that both are the best in their divisions and Brook will be better at middle... which like I wrote on an earlier thread makes one wonder why he's never campaigned at 154 ???.....If he's not as good at welter why campaign there ??......

Of course in the last 30 or so years there have been admirable efforts from welters to claim the middle by jumping two divisions and avoiding 154...........Nunn v Starling being one.......A very good performance by Marlon against a great middle.......But Starling had one of the best defences the game has ever seen and Nunn wasn't really a pressure fighter........Nunn won a majority but it was close !!!

I see a lot of Azumah Nelson in GGG.........one of these fighters who appears to be all over you even when he isn't......He'll make you work three minutes a round while every so often banging in some hurtful and wearing combinations.....Decent speed....Accuracy...Great footwork....Good tank and defensively sound........

Like Nelson he's a master craftsman.............

For me any advantages Brook has are negated at the higher weight...He's hitting bigger men and the extra weight will slow him down...

Yes these guys are both the best in their divisions but it is "13 pounds" and GGG to me is the better fighter anyway.....If we are talking two weight classes and the same poundage (bar 1 pound)....Would anyone have wanted to see Ward v Canelo at 168 ???


I can't see a good fight but I've been wrong plenty of times..

If anyone can make a case for Brook I'd love to hear it ......Maybe even convince me to buy it because the jury is out on that one..

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Post by 88Chris05 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 10:31 am

I’ve tried to envisage a way that Brook could potentially win this one against all the odds, but I just haven’t been able to, no matter which angle I’ve approached it from.

Brook’s a tough lad based on what we’ve seen so far, but Middleweights such as Macklin, Murray (a big Middle, in his case), Geale etc. are all very tough and durable guys as well. There’s a conspicuous lack of big-time hitters on Brook’s Welterweight ledger as it is – when Golovkin catches him with anything even approaching a half-decent shot, it’s going to be totally unlike anything Brook’s ever felt before.

Those who are giving Brook a sniff seem to be pinning their hopes largely on a belief that he’ll be quicker on the night than Golovkin, and more fleet of foot. He might be, but I’ve always had Brook down in the pretty quick rather than lightning-fast category, and Golovkin, while not a speed merchant, isn’t exactly a slouch either. Whatever edge Brook might have in speed, I don’t think it’s anywhere near enough to negate Golovkin’s greater power, experience, pressure as well as his own skills, which are considerable.

I think to believe in Brook’s chances, you’d need to feel that Brook is the superior fighter in a pound for pound sense, and that he’s only pitting himself against a natural size and power differential here, rather than a talent one. I’m not so sure. Golovkin is certainly bigger, but based on their careers so far it’s perfectly possible that he’s just better as well, hence his place in the upper echelons of most people’s pound for pound lists - a place where Brook, despite twelve years as a professional, hasn’t been yet. It’s not as if Golovkin has been losing many rounds in between all the ones where he gets a knockout.

I think talk of Brook winning via a no-risk, jab-and-move tactic are fanciful. Brook’s defence isn’t bad at all, but he’s not totally elusive and in any case, against a fighter of Golovkin’s quality it’s going to take more than just a tippy-tap points accumulator performance to win. This ain’t Roy Jones (different class altogether than Brook, and much harder to hit) against John Ruiz (a lot slower and less heavy-handed than Golovkin) here. We’re talking about probably the best Middleweight of the last decade. Just moving around the ring trying to avoid being hit cleanly and trying to edge rounds isn’t going to be enough, I feel. Brook might last the full twelve somehow doing that, but he’s not going to impress the judges enough to win rounds fighting like that.

And I don’t even want to think what fate will befall Brook if he tries to slug it out. I think this might be similar to Golovkin’s fight against Monroe, with Brook trying to use movement and keep it rangy but just finding that he can’t keep Golovkin off and getting disheartened once he’s felt the power a couple of times.
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Post by hazharrison on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:19 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I’ve tried to envisage a way that Brook could potentially win this one against all the odds, but I just haven’t been able to, no matter which angle I’ve approached it from.

Brook’s a tough lad based on what we’ve seen so far, but Middleweights such as Macklin, Murray (a big Middle, in his case), Geale etc. are all very tough and durable guys as well. There’s a conspicuous lack of big-time hitters on Brook’s Welterweight ledger as it is – when Golovkin catches him with anything even approaching a half-decent shot, it’s going to be totally unlike anything Brook’s ever felt before.

Those who are giving Brook a sniff seem to be pinning their hopes largely on a belief that he’ll be quicker on the night than Golovkin, and more fleet of foot. He might be, but I’ve always had Brook down in the pretty quick rather than lightning-fast category, and Golovkin, while not a speed merchant, isn’t exactly a slouch either. Whatever edge Brook might have in speed, I don’t think it’s anywhere near enough to negate Golovkin’s greater power, experience, pressure as well as his own skills, which are considerable.

I think to believe in Brook’s chances, you’d need to feel that Brook is the superior fighter in a pound for pound sense, and that he’s only pitting himself against a natural size and power differential here, rather than a talent one. I’m not so sure. Golovkin is certainly bigger, but based on their careers so far it’s perfectly possible that he’s just better as well, hence his place in the upper echelons of most people’s pound for pound lists - a place where Brook, despite twelve years as a professional, hasn’t been yet. It’s not as if Golovkin has been losing many rounds in between all the ones where he gets a knockout.

I think talk of Brook winning via a no-risk, jab-and-move tactic are fanciful. Brook’s defence isn’t bad at all, but he’s not totally elusive and in any case, against a fighter of Golovkin’s quality it’s going to take more than just a tippy-tap points accumulator performance to win. This ain’t Roy Jones (different class altogether than Brook, and much harder to hit) against John Ruiz (a lot slower and less heavy-handed than Golovkin) here. We’re talking about probably the best Middleweight of the last decade. Just moving around the ring trying to avoid being hit cleanly and trying to edge rounds isn’t going to be enough, I feel. Brook might last the full twelve somehow doing that, but he’s not going to impress the judges enough to win rounds fighting like that.

And I don’t even want to think what fate will befall Brook if he tries to slug it out. I think this might be similar to Golovkin’s fight against Monroe, with Brook trying to use movement and keep it rangy but just finding that he can’t keep Golovkin off and getting disheartened once he’s felt the power a couple of times.

The only positives for Brook are that he's more motivated than any fight previously. He's treating this as his own personal Rumble in the Jungle and looks in fantastic shape with no worries (for once) about making weight. Brook has been cantering of late - there may be an extra 25% there if he's pushed to his limits (which he surely will be here).

He's probably a natural 154 pounder and with Golovkin often coming in under 160, the weight discrepancy may be somewhat overstated. But yeah, finding it hard to envisage how he would be competitive, let alone win.

I feel he'll do himself proud (perhaps lasting the distance) but will be hopelessly outgunned.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:29 pm

I Wouldn't pick Floyd to beat GGG at 160 and maybe 154. That's how highly I rate the guy, regardless of some of his opponents.
If Kell makes it competitive, he has done well.

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:43 pm

AdamT wrote:I Wouldn't pick Floyd to beat GGG at 160 and maybe 154. That's how highly I rate the guy, regardless of some of his opponents.
If Kell makes it competitive, he has done well.
I wouldn't pick Floyd to even FIGHT him at 160-154 let alone beat him. No, leave Floyd to his new venture as a strip club owner and never let him darken boxing's door again. Odious little c*nt!

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:44 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:I Wouldn't pick Floyd to beat GGG at 160 and maybe 154. That's how highly I rate the guy, regardless of some of his opponents.
If Kell makes it competitive, he has done well.
I wouldn't pick Floyd to even FIGHT him at 160-154 let alone beat him. No, leave Floyd to his new venture as a strip club owner and never let him darken boxing's door again. Odious little c*nt!

That he is, but a genius boxer also.

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:49 pm

AdamT wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:I Wouldn't pick Floyd to beat GGG at 160 and maybe 154. That's how highly I rate the guy, regardless of some of his opponents.
If Kell makes it competitive, he has done well.
I wouldn't pick Floyd to even FIGHT him at 160-154 let alone beat him. No, leave Floyd to his new venture as a strip club owner and never let him darken boxing's door again. Odious little c*nt!

That he is, but a genius boxer also.
A genius that claims to surpass SRR but won't take the comparable leap of fighting at MW to try and match SRR's efforts to wrest the LH title from Maxim.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:50 pm

Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:11 pm

AdamT wrote:Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??
SRR went from WW to LH. Mayweather going from SF to MW would, IMO, be comparable, but no, this sh!tbiscuit claims to be better than SRR because he's undefeated. C*nt!

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:12 pm

He isn't better, so what? Why can't he sell himself? He makes his money from being undefeated and hated.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:37 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??
SRR went from WW to LH. Mayweather going from SF to MW would, IMO, be comparable, but no, this sh!tbiscuit claims to be better than SRR because he's undefeated. C*nt!

Mayweather won his first title as a superfeatherweight Dave...

Easy to forget isn't.....

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:44 pm

Also if Floyd says he is better than SRR, what's the problem? It's his opinion and he is entitled to it.

He might no be the best ever, but he is in the conversation. Roberto Duran says he is the best ever. These guys have huge egos, as well as talent.

When you spend your life fighting and beating most of the best around, you're entitled to be cocky.

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??
SRR went from WW to LH. Mayweather going from SF to MW would, IMO, be comparable, but no, this sh!tbiscuit claims to be better than SRR because he's undefeated. C*nt!

Mayweather won his first title as a superfeatherweight Dave...

Easy to forget isn't.....
No it isn't, I just wrote it and, for me, a rise from SF to MW world compare favourably with SRR going from WW up to LH.

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:59 pm

AdamT wrote:Also if Floyd says he is better than SRR, what's the problem? It's his opinion and he is entitled to it.

He might no be the best ever, but he is in the conversation. Roberto Duran says he is the best ever. These guys have huge egos, as well as talent.

When you spend your life fighting and beating most of the best around, you're entitled to be cocky.
And if I say he isn't, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The difference, I feel, is that Mayweather's reasoning for being better than Robinson is, to be frank, utter bollox. Fight as many times as Robinson with same stellar amateur career and see if you remain undefeated, you pr!ck!

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:01 pm

It's a different era/time Dave. IF SRR was around now, he would unlikely have over 50-60 fights either.

You are of course entitled to your opinion.

Going but what I read and seen videos, I rate SRR as the best ever. Still, Floyd has earned the right to be arrogant.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:30 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Also if Floyd says he is better than SRR, what's the problem? It's his opinion and he is entitled to it.

He might no be the best ever, but he is in the conversation. Roberto Duran says he is the best ever. These guys have huge egos, as well as talent.

When you spend your life fighting and beating most of the best around, you're entitled to be cocky.
And if I say he isn't, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The difference, I feel, is that Mayweather's reasoning for being better than Robinson is, to be frank, utter bollox. Fight as many times as Robinson with same stellar amateur career and see if you remain undefeated, you pr!ck!

No one is arguing Mayweather is better than Robinson.......Arguing though that Floyd did enough weight jumping.....24 pounds...

Also Maxim had 18 losses when he defended against Sugar......Granted there were heavies in there but he'd had a few beatings..

Hardly a prime killer like GGG was he ??...Robinson was younger too than Floyd when GGG v Floyd was being hyped..

But you are entitled to your opinion....and good luck to you....Always an interesting one..

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Post by AdamT on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:37 pm

Truss you watched Leoanrd and co in their prime. Do you think Floyd was as good as SRL? Not necessarily in a head to head, but in a p4p perspective??

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Post by Guest on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Also if Floyd says he is better than SRR, what's the problem? It's his opinion and he is entitled to it.

He might no be the best ever, but he is in the conversation. Roberto Duran says he is the best ever. These guys have huge egos, as well as talent.

When you spend your life fighting and beating most of the best around, you're entitled to be cocky.
And if I say he isn't, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The difference, I feel, is that Mayweather's reasoning for being better than Robinson is, to be frank, utter bollox. Fight as many times as Robinson with same stellar amateur career and see if you remain undefeated, you pr!ck!

No one is arguing Mayweather is better than Robinson.......Arguing though that Floyd did enough weight jumping.....24 pounds...

Also Maxim had 18 losses when he defended against Sugar......Granted there were heavies in there but he'd had a few beatings..

Hardly a prime killer like GGG was he ??...Robinson was younger too than Floyd when GGG v Floyd was being hyped..

But you are entitled to your opinion....and good luck to you....Always an interesting one..
Mayweather is arguing that Mayweather is better than Robinson.
Also, despite being younger, SRR was a darn sight more shop worn that Floyd ever was. Also, I believe Archie Moore(?) is on record somewhere as saying that Joey Maxim was a damn good fighter and Robinson was only beaten by the heat and humidity.

Anyway, Mayweather is a pr!ck!

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Post by AdamT on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:15 pm

Did you catch the UFC at the weekend Dave??

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Post by Guest on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:30 pm

Watched it last night whilst very drunk, but yes

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Post by AdamT on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:30 pm

Not a bad card. Good main event!

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Post by Guest on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:37 pm

Yep, Thought McGregor did enough to win but he'll get slaughtered by a "genuine" WW. Tim Means would kill him, thought he was excellent. Anthony Johnson looks great too. Think he levels Cormier. Shame Jon Jones appears to have f*cked his life and MMA career as that would also be a good fight

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Post by AdamT on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm

I think McGregor edged it, but very, very close.

Johnson is a beast. Not a bad card!


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Post by catchweight on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 6:54 pm

McGregor is a heck of a fighter and that was a heck of fight. I think he would beat most of the bigger men in that division as I dont think there are many as tough and resiliant at taking a beating as Diaz is. He still has a significant drop off in effectiveness after the first couple of rounds though which holds him back. If he could maintain the same level of fighting that he has in the first couple of rounds and keep it up for 4 or 5 rounds he would be unstoppable. As it is, if you can survive the first couple of rounds against him and soak it up he starts to get vunerable later in the fight.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 4:30 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??
SRR went from WW to LH. Mayweather going from SF to MW would, IMO, be comparable, but no, this sh!tbiscuit claims to be better than SRR because he's undefeated. C*nt!

Leonard fought the light heavy champ at 168 Dave...

That's 21 pounds Dave...

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Post by Guest on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 4:42 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Boxers slabber, it's hardly new. Sure did he not already climb 25lbs in his career??
SRR went from WW to LH. Mayweather going from SF to MW would, IMO, be comparable, but no, this sh!tbiscuit claims to be better than SRR because he's undefeated. C*nt!

Leonard fought the light heavy champ at 168 Dave...

That's 21 pounds Dave...
F*ck SRL and the Lalonde fight, one fight, titles at two weights! C*nt!

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Post by OasisBFC on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 11:01 am

I can give Brook huge credit for taking the fight but that's about it.
Think Khan paved the way for this to take place but still big respect for taking the fight.

He's no middle weight will never be but he's taking on an opponent that all super middleweights would have avoided. Even Froch wasn't keen on coming out of retirement for a big money fight with him and he'd fight anyone.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:12 pm

Problem with this fight (Of the many) Is Brook has an IBF 147 crown to fall back on....

Makes one think if he is losing then they pull him out early... and let him defend that.....

A huge payday and a belt waiting........Like winning the lottery..

Hope I'm wrong but I would make sure you enjoy the undercard........I'll be buying it for the undercard.....Written the main event off..

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:45 pm

I strongly doubt Brook can ever make 147 again - certainly without losing something. 176 lbs 30 days out from a fight at 160? He'd be physically diminished draining back down to 147 - you can count the guys who went up two weights and then came back to the original weight as good as they were when they left on one hand.

It's a shame because Brook, Spence, Thurman and Porter could have boxed a top quality round robin to crown a welterweight champion.

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Post by AdamT on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:13 pm

I think Spence would beat all them guys at Welter. He looks the real deal.

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 1:53 pm

AdamT wrote:I think Spence would beat all them guys at Welter. He looks the real deal.

Good news is that he'll likely get the chance - Thurman and Porter under Haymon/PBC.

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Post by Rowley on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 11:42 am

I think the fact you have to try to make a case for the opponent in a PPV fight (and not for the first time recently it should be added) is a little depressing.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 5:01 pm

Kell Brook - "I can't wait to get punched in the face of Golovkin"...

Be careful what you wish for...

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Post by kingraf on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:45 am

I was gonna make a case.... but then I realised it starts and ends with he looks good at the weight.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 4:49 pm

We are forgetting the time factor in all this....All the great upsets have been by guys who know their opponent well before they have fought....All their habits and movements to a tee...

Fury..Honeyghan..Turpin....Douglas...Ali.....Leonard...They all had adequate time to imagine, evaluate and work on the threat they knew would come....

Two months ago Brook never dreamt this fight would happen...Was more interested in evaluating Vargas..

First fight at 160...New top class opponent...Too rushed for me..




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Post by AdamT on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 11:30 pm

Agree Truss. Also Ray vs Hagler was another.

Brook has one very good win. It would take a special Welter to give GGG serious problems.

Brooks good, but he Is no Ray Leonard.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 11:31 pm

I see you already mentioned Leonard lol

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Post by Nico the gman on Sun 04 Sep 2016, 6:25 pm

Brook carries the speed up to middle, Brook by brutal KO In 3, then challenges the winner of Ward and Koivalev, look Boss the plane the plane, yes Tatu.

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Post by Guest on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 10:30 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We are forgetting the time factor in all this....All the great upsets have been by guys who know their opponent well before they have fought....All their habits and movements to a tee...

Fury..Honeyghan..Turpin....Douglas...Ali.....Leonard...They all had adequate time to imagine, evaluate and work on the threat they knew would come....

Two months ago Brook never dreamt this fight would happen...Was more interested in evaluating Vargas..

First fight at  160...New top class opponent...Too rushed for me..



With media coverage being much more widespread these days and access to footage on various social media outlets, it's not too hard to imagine that even if GGG wasn't on Brook's radar, he'd know enough to think he had a chance and I envisage this conversation

Eddie - "F*ck me, the Eubanks are a set of difficult c*nts to work with."
Kell - "Why's that, boss?"
Eddie - "Trying to get young 'un a fight with GGG."
Kell - "Wow, GGG. He's good! What's the problem?"
Eddie - "Snr keeps stick his f*cking neb in demanding stupid sh!t left right and centre."
Kell - "Like what?"
Eddie - "He wants me to give out inflatable bananas to the crowd as a way of reminding people how slippery his son is in the ring!"
Kell - "OK, what else?"
Eddie - "He wants Carol Vorderman as a ring card girl cos she's good with numbers and it might help when people start asking what round it is."
Kell - "Does anyone want to see her in a crop top and hot pants?"
Eddie - "There's my dad, but I'm not going to entertain the idea."
Kell - "Don't blame you. Seems like you have your work cut out."
Eddie - "Yeah, shame there's no-one out there willing to step in without putting me through the f*cking wringer."
Kell - "Well...."
Eddie - "Well...what?"
Kell - "I've seen this kid fight"
Eddie - "Who? Eubank Jr?"
Kell - "No, you soppy sounthern c*nt, GGG!"
Eddie - "And?"
Kell - "And...I fancy my chances against him"
Eddie - "Nice one!


Or something..............

Guest
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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 12:46 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We are forgetting the time factor in all this....All the great upsets have been by guys who know their opponent well before they have fought....All their habits and movements to a tee...

Fury..Honeyghan..Turpin....Douglas...Ali.....Leonard...They all had adequate time to imagine, evaluate and work on the threat they knew would come....

Two months ago Brook never dreamt this fight would happen...Was more interested in evaluating Vargas..

First fight at  160...New top class opponent...Too rushed for me..



With media coverage being much more widespread these days and access to footage on various social media outlets, it's not too hard to imagine that even if GGG wasn't on Brook's radar, he'd know enough to think he had a chance and I envisage this conversation

Eddie - "F*ck me, the Eubanks are a set of difficult c*nts to work with."
Kell - "Why's that, boss?"
Eddie - "Trying to get young 'un a fight with GGG."
Kell - "Wow, GGG. He's good! What's the problem?"
Eddie - "Snr keeps stick his f*cking neb in demanding stupid sh!t left right and centre."
Kell - "Like what?"
Eddie - "He wants me to give out inflatable bananas to the crowd as a way of reminding people how slippery his son is in the ring!"
Kell - "OK, what else?"
Eddie - "He wants Carol Vorderman as a ring card girl cos she's good with numbers and it might help when people start asking what round it is."
Kell - "Does anyone want to see her in a crop top and hot pants?"
Eddie - "There's my dad, but I'm not going to entertain the idea."
Kell - "Don't blame you. Seems like you have your work cut out."
Eddie - "Yeah, shame there's no-one out there willing to step in without putting me through the f*cking wringer."
Kell - "Well...."
Eddie - "Well...what?"
Kell - "I've seen this kid fight"
Eddie - "Who? Eubank Jr?"
Kell - "No, you soppy sounthern c*nt, GGG!"
Eddie - "And?"
Kell - "And...I fancy my chances against him"
Eddie - "Nice one!


Or something..............

HAHAHA Quality +1

On a side note, Brook has been talked about fighting GGG before, think Hearn mentioned it in an interview when the Khan fight fell through and Khan fought Canelo

Brook said he would step up and face GGG

How true that is, well that's another question

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Post by milkyboy on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 1:08 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We are forgetting the time factor in all this....All the great upsets have been by guys who know their opponent well before they have fought....All their habits and movements to a tee...

Fury..Honeyghan..Turpin....Douglas...Ali.....Leonard...They all had adequate time to imagine, evaluate and work on the threat they knew would come....

Two months ago Brook never dreamt this fight would happen...Was more interested in evaluating Vargas..

First fight at  160...New top class opponent...Too rushed for me..



With media coverage being much more widespread these days and access to footage on various social media outlets, it's not too hard to imagine that even if GGG wasn't on Brook's radar, he'd know enough to think he had a chance and I envisage this conversation

Eddie - "F*ck me, the Eubanks are a set of difficult c*nts to work with."
Kell - "Why's that, boss?"
Eddie - "Trying to get young 'un a fight with GGG."
Kell - "Wow, GGG. He's good! What's the problem?"
Eddie - "Snr keeps stick his f*cking neb in demanding stupid sh!t left right and centre."
Kell - "Like what?"
Eddie - "He wants me to give out inflatable bananas to the crowd as a way of reminding people how slippery his son is in the ring!"
Kell - "OK, what else?"
Eddie - "He wants Carol Vorderman as a ring card girl cos she's good with numbers and it might help when people start asking what round it is."
Kell - "Does anyone want to see her in a crop top and hot pants?"
Eddie - "There's my dad, but I'm not going to entertain the idea."
Kell - "Don't blame you. Seems like you have your work cut out."
Eddie - "Yeah, shame there's no-one out there willing to step in without putting me through the f*cking wringer."
Kell - "Well...."
Eddie - "Well...what?"
Kell - "I've seen this kid fight"
Eddie - "Who? Eubank Jr?"
Kell - "No, you soppy sounthern c*nt, GGG!"
Eddie - "And?"
Kell - "And...I fancy my chances against him"
Eddie - "Nice one!


Or something..............

... The something:

Eddie "the golovkin fights done kel'
Kel 'what?!!'
Eddie 'the ggg fight you said you wanted'
Kel 'I said I wanted a go at the geegee's, Eddie... A bet on the horses, don't you speak English?'
Eddie 'nah I'm a mockery cnut'
Kel 'ohhhh eddie, what have you done'

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Post by kingraf on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 1:51 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We are forgetting the time factor in all this....All the great upsets have been by guys who know their opponent well before they have fought....All their habits and movements to a tee...

Fury..Honeyghan..Turpin....Douglas...Ali.....Leonard...They all had adequate time to imagine, evaluate and work on the threat they knew would come....

Two months ago Brook never dreamt this fight would happen...Was more interested in evaluating Vargas..

First fight at  160...New top class opponent...Too rushed for me..



With media coverage being much more widespread these days and access to footage on various social media outlets, it's not too hard to imagine that even if GGG wasn't on Brook's radar, he'd know enough to think he had a chance and I envisage this conversation

Eddie - "F*ck me, the Eubanks are a set of difficult c*nts to work with."
Kell - "Why's that, boss?"
Eddie - "Trying to get young 'un a fight with GGG."
Kell - "Wow, GGG. He's good! What's the problem?"
Eddie - "Snr keeps stick his f*cking neb in demanding stupid sh!t left right and centre."
Kell - "Like what?"
Eddie - "He wants me to give out inflatable bananas to the crowd as a way of reminding people how slippery his son is in the ring!"
Kell - "OK, what else?"
Eddie - "He wants Carol Vorderman as a ring card girl cos she's good with numbers and it might help when people start asking what round it is."
Kell - "Does anyone want to see her in a crop top and hot pants?"
Eddie - "There's my dad, but I'm not going to entertain the idea."
Kell - "Don't blame you. Seems like you have your work cut out."
Eddie - "Yeah, shame there's no-one out there willing to step in without putting me through the f*cking wringer."
Kell - "Well...."
Eddie - "Well...what?"
Kell - "I've seen this kid fight"
Eddie - "Who? Eubank Jr?"
Kell - "No, you soppy sounthern c*nt, GGG!"
Eddie - "And?"
Kell - "And...I fancy my chances against him"
Eddie - "Nice one!


Or something..............

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

There is a touch of genius there
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raf
raf

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Post by kingraf on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 2:04 pm

I do think Truss is onto something with the amount of notice Brook is taking the fight on. I was watching both Diaz-McGregor fights, and you could see how much better Connor paced himself the second time at the new weight. In boxing terms Kell is a notch below Connor, and GGG is a few notches above Diaz, so it does to me raise a bit of an immediate concern
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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 8:30 am

cant make any case, brook has been a big welter dining out on smaller guys. he couldnt handle the pressure carson jones put on him so what he'll do when ggg cuts down the ring i have no idea.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 9:01 am

kingraf wrote:I do think Truss is onto something with the amount of notice Brook is taking the fight on. I was watching both Diaz-McGregor fights, and you could see how much better Connor paced himself the second time at the new weight. In boxing terms Kell is a notch below Connor, and GGG is a few notches above Diaz, so it does to me raise a bit of an immediate concern


There's lots of things to be concerned about! I don't think it's the mental preparation - though he obviously needs to have a positive mindset against a guy who intimidates opponents before the bell. It's the physical adaptation. It's one thing coming in on the scales as a fully fledged middle - but he's going to be carrying a stone more muscle than he's used to... what effect that has on his speed, timing and stamina is hard to gauge - and golovkin is not the guy to pick for your first test.

The jones fights don't really concern me for brook - he had no problem keeping jones off until he gassed in the first fight from poor conditioning, and no problem at all in the second. The Porter fight concerns me - i had that closer than the judges and although you have to say it was a great win away from home... and that porter is a swarmer, where GGG is more a stalker - he got roughed up and soaked up a fair bit of leather in that fight. And he was in the best shape he could be.

I'll say this about Brook, he took his licks in the first jones fight and to a degree in the porter fight... he doesn't lack heart and irrespective of the money it's a brave move to take this fight (yes the size excuse etc is always there, but its a potentially damaging fight physically and mentally).

If he was a sharper defensive operator i'd see a way he could have an outside chance in this, but I just don't think that's his real strength. He's going to need an amazing chin and perhaps more so an amazing capacity to take punishment to the body. Would love him to prove us all wrong.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 11:06 am

I really want Brook to win but can't envisage any way in which he wins.

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Post by AdamT on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 11:10 am

Is GGG better than Tyson??

Is Brook better than Douglas??

Upsets happen, but it would be a major shock if Brook can pull it off.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 1:51 pm

I think the thing with Brook is, like Liam Smith, we just don't know how good he can be. His level of opposition hasn't been great (Smith's has been abysmal). If his performance against Porter was as good as it gets, then he has very little chance of springing an upset here.

I love Kell as a fighter. He has tremendous balance, a good selection of shots and a beautiful one-two. He's tough, gutsy and has a great trainer behind him in Dom Ingle.

I just don't see how he stands up to Golovkin's power. Which is why the fight sucks (and why most catch weight fights suck). Yes, Ray Leonard and Duran were able to climb two divisions and put in miraculous performances. But we're talking about two of the greatest fighters ever.

The thing he has going for him is that he'll actually be in there to win. He'll believe he can upset GGG and it's amazing how far that can go. Despite that, I'd be amazed if he made it past RD 10.

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Post by AdamT on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 2:06 pm

Everyone on here hates Floyd, but he is the only lighter fighter with the skill to trouble GGG. If Floyd had more pop on his shots and was a few years younger, I would back him to beat GGG.

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Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 2:09 pm

kingraf wrote:I do think Truss is onto something with the amount of notice Brook is taking the fight on. I was watching both Diaz-McGregor fights, and you could see how much better Connor paced himself the second time at the new weight. In boxing terms Kell is a notch below Connor, and GGG is a few notches above Diaz, so it does to me raise a bit of an immediate concern
Seriously? Kell's all round boxing ability (offence and defence) is way ahead of McGregor's. I like Conor but there's no way he's above Kell

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Post by AdamT on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 2:25 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
kingraf wrote:I do think Truss is onto something with the amount of notice Brook is taking the fight on. I was watching both Diaz-McGregor fights, and you could see how much better Connor paced himself the second time at the new weight. In boxing terms Kell is a notch below Connor, and GGG is a few notches above Diaz, so it does to me raise a bit of an immediate concern
Seriously? Kell's all round boxing ability (offence and defence) is way ahead of McGregor's. I like Conor but there's no way he's above Kell

What he means is Conor is a better mma fighter, than Kell is a boxer. Also that Diaz isn't as good in his sport, as GGG is at his. I think!

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