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And so it begins.. (if it hadn't already begun)

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Post by lostinwales Sun 28 Aug 2016, 6:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37208971

AP bosses (Mark McCall and Dai Young) call Lions schedule 'ludicrous'

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Post by SecretFly Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:03 pm

ebop wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sadly I think the Lions has to go. The rugby calendar is becoming more demanding as it is and with pressure to cut games somewhere, The Lions tours seem the obvious place to start.

The Lions never used to be an imposition

What a shame club rugby has made it that way

Never mind, I'm sure those club games are great spectacles

Typical response from an Anti-Calendarist!

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:15 pm

Club and Country must always come first over the Lions.
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:17 pm

Is it club before country?
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Post by SecretFly Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:18 pm

F**K Club and F**K Lions.

Country before both. One Lover, no screwing around. Wink

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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:20 pm

Ok, country first is good

ps. I like calendars
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:21 pm

Honestly though

Club rugby over the Lions, really?

You'd rather watch a club game over the Lions?
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:23 pm

TightHEAD wrote:He is a Mercenary lining his own pockets, nothing more. Totally the wrong choice for this tour.

Shocking that a coach gets paid in the professional era, imagine spending time away from your family and doing a job and expecting to be paid for it. What kind of world do we live in?!

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:35 pm

ebop wrote:Honestly though

Club rugby over the Lions, really?

You'd rather watch a club game over the Lions?

I would,I'm a Leinster fan and to me watching the Lions feels the same as watching Connacht,Ulster or Munster play.I'd like them to win but at the end of the day it's not that important.

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:36 pm

Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.
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Post by SecretFly Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:38 pm

marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:He is a Mercenary lining his own pockets, nothing more. Totally the wrong choice for this tour.

Shocking that a coach gets paid in the professional era, imagine spending time away from your family and doing a job and expecting to be paid for it. What kind of world do we live in?!

What if spending time away from your family is kinda your idea of Heaven? Do you then have to compensate the company that employs you under such conditions?

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Erm

Except that country is what the game is built on and only the last few years has the club game been able to sustain itself without the unions and tests

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Amateur club rugby is the heart and soul of the game,the pro game is a different beast.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:He is a Mercenary lining his own pockets, nothing more. Totally the wrong choice for this tour.

Shocking that a coach gets paid in the professional era, imagine spending time away from your family and doing a job and expecting to be paid for it. What kind of world do we live in?!

What if spending time away from your family is kinda your idea of Heaven?  Do you then have to compensate the company that employs you under such conditions?

You just keep that quiet and hope no one figures out Laugh

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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:42 pm

What about from a quality standpoint?

You have to admit, club rugby is a step down in terms of quality and spectacle. Not a big deal?
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:44 pm

Why do you guys hate Club rugby so much? - It is what I and many rugby fans live for.
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:45 pm

ebop wrote:What about from a quality standpoint?

You have to admit, club rugby is a step down in terms of quality and spectacle. Not a big deal?

The last Lions tour was awful rugby. Erm
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:46 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Why do you guys hate Club rugby so much? - It is what I and many rugby fans live for.

Who said we hate it, you just seem to ramble a lot and fail to grasp things

As I said with out Test rugby the club game wouldn't be around how is that hating the club game?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:47 pm

It's a step up from some internationals though. Problems arise when you try to prioritise club and country etc. They need each other and need to coexist.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:48 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:48 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
ebop wrote:What about from a quality standpoint?

You have to admit, club rugby is a step down in terms of quality and spectacle. Not a big deal?

The last Lions tour was awful rugby. Erm

Worse than club rugby?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:50 pm

Does SH club rugby suck ebop? Don't catch much of it.

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:51 pm

ebop wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
ebop wrote:What about from a quality standpoint?

You have to admit, club rugby is a step down in terms of quality and spectacle. Not a big deal?

The last Lions tour was awful rugby. Erm

Worse than club rugby?

Should make him watch Edinburgh play Zebre this season and he'll change his mind fast

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

The Lions has to sustain itself, the union its visiting plus the home unions so they need to generate serious revenue

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Why do you guys hate Club rugby so much? - It is what I and many rugby fans live for.

Who said we hate it, you just seem to ramble a lot and fail to grasp things

As I said with out Test rugby the club game wouldn't be around how is that hating the club game?

Laugh a village is missing you today.
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

Nailed it SecretFly

And traditions will die

Bye bye Lions

Cry
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:53 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Why do you guys hate Club rugby so much? - It is what I and many rugby fans live for.

Who said we hate it, you just seem to ramble a lot and fail to grasp things

As I said with out Test rugby the club game wouldn't be around how is that hating the club game?

Laugh  a village is missing you today.
Calm down mate
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:53 pm

marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

The Lions has to sustain itself, the union its visiting plus the home unions so they need to generate serious revenue

Greed, nothing more nothing less. oh and shirt sales. thumbsup
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:54 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Why do you guys hate Club rugby so much? - It is what I and many rugby fans live for.

Who said we hate it, you just seem to ramble a lot and fail to grasp things

As I said with out Test rugby the club game wouldn't be around how is that hating the club game?

Laugh  a village is missing you today.

So you cant refute what I say so you try calling me an idiot? Very mature but seems to be the level you work at

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:54 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

The Lions has to sustain itself, the union its visiting plus the home unions so they need to generate serious revenue

Greed, nothing more nothing less. oh and shirt sales. thumbsup

Sorry it upsets your communist sensibilities

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:56 pm

"Without (one word) Test rugby the game wouldn't be around" Laugh
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:59 pm

So other than some poor spelling can you refute any of that?

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Post by SecretFly Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

Well now I'm down as not being a particularly indulgent Lions fan either Wink  .... except for the fun and games when all the lovely supporters who always start out pretending they love each other at the beginning then collapse into a fist fight of kicking and screaming and biting and hair pulling to defend the honour of their................. individual countries.  That's fun.

The Lions proves that Nation/Country beats the Lions loyalty each and every time.  I suppose I should really love the Lions for that reason alone.

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Post by Exiledinborders Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

The Lions has to sustain itself, the union its visiting plus the home unions so they need to generate serious revenue
They have to sustain themselves. That is true - just like the clubs in fact.

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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Does SH club rugby suck ebop? Don't catch much of it.
Some of it is really good 7.5, brilliant in fact

I watch a lot of it

But I'd rather watch SA or Australia v Lions than a SR game or any club game out of the NH including finals

More at stake ain't there
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:12 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Club rugby is the heart and soul of our game, so yes club rugby 1st followed by Country for me.

Club rugby is fuelled by greed - not greed for more and more good rugby but by all the usual suspects that want a slice of the ever increasing financial pie.... players always have to be paid more and more so that the sponsors have a bigger a bigger product to cream more and more profit from that owners want a bigger and bigger slice of.

Club would be a great old game if it wasn't so often discussed in terms of biznezz, and profit-margins, and Broadcasting deals, and record breaking transfer fees and boardroom deals and financial troubles, and stadiums needing upgrades, and moving home to make bigger profits and shady nixers for sideline companies and houses that were given instead of salaries and we got more wealthy fans than yous lot, and on and on and on.

Club is simply habitual age old greed pretending it likes the game of rugby.

The Lions is all about money these days nothing more.

The Lions has to sustain itself, the union its visiting plus the home unions so they need to generate serious revenue
They have to sustain themselves. That is true - just like the clubs in fact.

Not like the clubs as clubs can be propped up by wealthy backers

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:13 pm

So it's more to do with whats at stake than quality? Autumn internationals for instance don't have as much relying on them as say a Newcastle Falcons vs Bristol (could possibly anyway). I'm not entirely sure you will state your preference for watching Newcastle (and no one should!). I'll go back to we shouldn't press ganging anyone and it's up to WR to hopefully push forward some agreements to protect the game at all levels including extra internationals out of the calander and issues of clubs trying to buy players into retiring.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:14 pm

No there's nothing at stake,it's a once off series.There's a huge amount of luck involved and it really has no relevance to anything.Who really cares that the Lions beat Oz last time,once the players go back to their countries everyone moves on.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:16 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:No there's nothing at stake,it's a once off series.There's a huge amount of luck involved and it really has no relevance to anything.Who really cares that the Lions beat Oz last time,once the players go back to their countries everyone moves on.

That's a bit like any game or competition then?

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:22 pm

No imo,the winning fans will always be bragging about winning the league/cup last season and the teams/players will have rivalries and relevant history with each other,this applies to both club and internationals.

With the Lions it will be another 8 years before they play Oz again so the previous series is irrelevant.NZ don't care about the Lions record v Oz/SA,it's a completely one off series and there's no chance for a rivalry to build up as there's a 12 year gap before the teams meet again.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:25 pm

Im sure Robbie Deans wouldn't agree with its irrelevance, from what Ive read as well quite a few ABs and their fans and media are excited about it

Its the nature of the series as much as any history that creates its meaning

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:28 pm

Time to knock it on the head, the Lions need Culling. The Baa baas are more relevant.
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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:30 pm

marty2086 wrote:Im sure Robbie Deans wouldn't agree with its irrelevance, from what Ive read as well quite a few ABs and their fans and media are excited about it

Its the nature of the series as much as any history that creates its meaning

Laugh Kiwis love it as its a massive pay day.
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:33 pm

I don't get paid anything

What are you on about?
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:35 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Im sure Robbie Deans wouldn't agree with its irrelevance, from what Ive read as well quite a few ABs and their fans and media are excited about it

Its the nature of the series as much as any history that creates its meaning

Laugh Kiwis love it as its a massive pay day.

You seem obsessed with money and how others think of it and rely on it


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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:35 pm

Hotels, bars etc etc will all benefit from the Lions coming to town.

The meaning of the Lions has been lost to provide the host nation a massive boost of £$£$£$£$£$£s........
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Post by ebop Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:37 pm

And entertainment

But you'd rather watch club rugby
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Post by marty2086 Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:37 pm

Nice to know you are so intune with the Kiwi psyche, you seem to know everyone elses mind better than your own since you have not been able to stick to one coherent point through this whole thread

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:39 pm

If the last tour was anything to go by then yes.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:39 pm

marty2086 wrote:Im sure Robbie Deans wouldn't agree with its irrelevance, from what Ive read as well quite a few ABs and their fans and media are excited about it

Its the nature of the series as much as any history that creates its meaning

I'd say he would.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/wallabies-woeful-bledisloe-cup-record-puts-new-spin-on-robbie-deans-era-20160831-gr5hyl.html

"The chronology of events is important here. Deans' card was marked before that 41-13 capitulation in the third and deciding Sydney Test. In the hours after that match at ANZ Stadium, I was told by an ARU official "to keep Tuesday free". As it turns out, that was the day McKenzie was unveiled as his successor. But things were moving behind the scenes far earlier than that. At the turn of 2013 there were those in Queensland whispering in Quade Cooper's ear to sign a new contract with the ARU because Deans would get the chop."

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