Great article - lets hope things can change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37340730


We, as fans, should demand more from our nations and not just sit back and let them poach. The Pacific Islands have given so much to rugby, it's time to give back.

Ben Ryan is correct in regards to some of the players agents running around, all it needs is that they have clearance from World Rugby to negotiate on behalf of players, and no clubs negotiate with unauthorised agents. and these contracts should have a clause that they need to be ratified by World Rugby before they have effect.

Some people are not even agents they just happen to know players in the Islands, but they introduce them to the agents for a "finders fee".

Get rid of the dodgy agents, and get rid of some of the dodgy clauses in their contracts.

Agreed.  There should be an accredited global panel of agents working to a global set of regulations with ratification from WR.

Am curious about Ryan's reported quote of players needing to be capped to get into the Premiership.  What does this mean?  There are plenty of non-English players in the premiership that are not capped surely - Welsh, Irish, Fijian, NZ, etc.?

PH:

I'm only guessing here, Perhaps Ryan is suggesting a protocol that should be adopted ?

Or the BBC missed the sentence either immediately prior or after.

There are similar concerns in soccer, European teams, particularly French, take large numbers of youngsters from African countries and put them into their academy system but the ones who don't make it are just let go and have to fend for themselves, sometimes literally on the streets.
In regard to rugby, firstly the agents need regulating, but why not extend a bit of support to the Pacifikas as well, maybe allow each team one or two "development" squad places for under 25's who could play club rugby but retain their nationality for test rugby by waiving their qualification by residence ?

aucklandlaurie wrote:
PH:

I'm only guessing here, Perhaps Ryan is suggesting a protocol that should be adopted ?

Or the BBC missed the sentence either immediately prior or after.

Possibly Laurie. It's not very well written - here's the relevant section:

"Gaining a foothold in a top league overseas can mean players switching international allegiances.

"Unless you've got a full Test cap, you can't come into the Aviva Premiership," explains Ryan.

"It's a lot harder to come into the UK, so the French are poaching everyone."

He says the closest professional league to Fiji is the ITM Cup in New Zealand, but claims players from the Pacific Islands can only go there if they are qualified to represent the All Blacks.

"They get a Super Rugby contract dangled in front of them and they don't then come back across to play for Fiji," says Ryan. "Australia's the same."

The author starts with the claim about having to switch potential allegiances and then quotes Ryan as saying that can't happen in U.K. So France are poaching everyone. Does this supposed Premiership requirement only apply to PI players?

Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps? Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

Just to add to that: The Dragons have a player from South Africa, Carl Meyer, who is on a sporting visa.  When he came over to play for Ebbw Vale RFC the club needed to act as 'sponsor', whatever that entails?  And I'm guessing the Dragons are now sponsor too.  However, I never hear of the big name international stars in the premiership being on sporting visas.  Is there something in that?

Griff wrote:Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps?  Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

No idea, Griff. Perhaps one our resident English fans might be able to shed some light.

Pot Hale wrote:

Griff wrote:Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps?  Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

No idea, Griff.  Perhaps one our resident English fans might be able to shed some light.  

It is an issue of getting a UK work visa. If you are a European Union Citizen or a national of a country with a free trade agreement with the EU then (until we leave the EU perhaps) you are entitled to work in the UK with no restriction. However if not - and most PIs are a not - then you have to be able to demonstrate to the immigration guys that you provide a service that is not available from local resources. This is much easier to demonstrate if you are playing international rugby. There is normally an agreement about just how many recent caps are needed to avoid having to have a hearing (for soccer I believe it is 75% of your countries internationals for which you were available - ie not injured - in the last two years)

Yes, it makes sense that it relates to meeting immigration requirements.

Even though any Fijian who turns up at the Immigration counter and says hes a winger, would just about be all thats required to show he can can provide a service not available locally.

Just moving this conversation a bit sideways for a second, besides Rugby Union I follow the NRL and it is more than obvious the number of teams that have Fijian wingers.

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Griff wrote:Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps?  Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

No idea, Griff.  Perhaps one our resident English fans might be able to shed some light.  

It is an issue of getting a UK work visa. If you are a European Union Citizen or a national of a country with a free trade agreement with the EU then (until we leave the EU perhaps) you are entitled to work in the UK with no restriction. However if not - and most PIs are a not - then you have to be able to demonstrate to the immigration guys that you provide a service that is not available from local resources. This is much easier to demonstrate if you are playing international rugby. There is normally an agreement about just how many recent caps are needed to avoid having to have a hearing (for soccer I believe it is 75% of your countries internationals for which you were available - ie not injured - in the last two years)

I see - then if it is a UK requirement only, then it applies to more than just the Premiership that Ryan refers to. It would also apply to most of the teams in the PRO12 as well. I'm trying to recall if there have been many Fijians signed by Irish provinces. I know Connacht have had a few international capped players from Tonga and Samoa.

Pot Hale wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Griff wrote:Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps?  Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

No idea, Griff.  Perhaps one our resident English fans might be able to shed some light.  

It is an issue of getting a UK work visa. If you are a European Union Citizen or a national of a country with a free trade agreement with the EU then (until we leave the EU perhaps) you are entitled to work in the UK with no restriction. However if not - and most PIs are a not - then you have to be able to demonstrate to the immigration guys that you provide a service that is not available from local resources. This is much easier to demonstrate if you are playing international rugby. There is normally an agreement about just how many recent caps are needed to avoid having to have a hearing (for soccer I believe it is 75% of your countries internationals for which you were available - ie not injured - in the last two years)

I see - then if it is a UK requirement only, then it applies to more than just the Premiership that Ryan refers to. It would also apply to most of the teams in the PRO12 as well.  I'm trying to recall if there have been many Fijians signed by Irish provinces. I know Connacht have had a few international capped players from  Tonga and Samoa.

Isa Nacewa.... Technically.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Griff wrote:Pot, is it to do with visas perhaps?  Do international qualified players from outside the UK or Europe get a visa more easily to play in England if they're a capped international player?

No idea, Griff.  Perhaps one our resident English fans might be able to shed some light.  

It is an issue of getting a UK work visa. If you are a European Union Citizen or a national of a country with a free trade agreement with the EU then (until we leave the EU perhaps) you are entitled to work in the UK with no restriction. However if not - and most PIs are a not - then you have to be able to demonstrate to the immigration guys that you provide a service that is not available from local resources. This is much easier to demonstrate if you are playing international rugby. There is normally an agreement about just how many recent caps are needed to avoid having to have a hearing (for soccer I believe it is 75% of your countries internationals for which you were available - ie not injured - in the last two years)

I see - then if it is a UK requirement only, then it applies to more than just the Premiership that Ryan refers to. It would also apply to most of the teams in the PRO12 as well.  I'm trying to recall if there have been many Fijians signed by Irish provinces. I know Connacht have had a few international capped players from  Tonga and Samoa.

Isa Nacewa.... Technically.

Yeah - I was going to include him but thought he was born in NZ. And besides, he was capped before he arrived in Ireland. Maybe the same rule/law applies in Ireland too.

As an Englishman, I am perfectly happy with anyone playing for my country provided they have the nationality and have some connection to the country, eg a parent and/or been here since at least early secondary school. I am less comfortable with players who clearly come from elsewhere and who become 'eligible' through residency alone. The various European leagues however have a totally different moral compass - kerching! Full stop.

As an Englishman, I am ashamed as to how little support or attention the England team have given to the Pacific Islands. Could they not have stopped by at least one on their way to/back from Australia this past NH summer?

SimonofSurrey wrote:As an Englishman, I am perfectly happy with anyone playing for my country provided they have the nationality and have some connection to the country, eg a parent and/or been here since at least early secondary school. I am less comfortable with players who clearly come from elsewhere and who become 'eligible' through residency alone. The various European leagues however  have a totally different moral compass - kerching! Full stop.

As an Englishman, I am ashamed as to how little support or attention the England team have given to the Pacific Islands. Could they not have stopped by at least one on their way to/back from Australia this past NH summer?    

Does clearly come from elsewhere include say Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France or Italy? Or does it need to be further afield?

The various European Leagues? Or do you mean unions?

slightly one sided.

Have a look at Samoa for instance. On any given test you'll see about half to two-thirds of their players being born and raised in NZ.

Pot Hale wrote:  I'm trying to recall if there have been many Fijians signed by Irish provinces.

Timoci Nagusa played for Ulster for a couple of years