Four Nations 2016

England squad;

John Bateman (Wigan Warriors), Kevin Brown (Widnes Vikings), George Burgess, Sam Burgess, Thomas Burgess (all South Sydney Rabbitohs), Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves), Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves / St George-Illwarra Dragons), Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors), Brett Ferres (Leeds Rhinos), Luke Gale (Castleford Tigers), James Graham (Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs), Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos), Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves), Josh Hodgson (Canberra Raiders), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants), Mark Percival (St Helens), Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves), Dan Sarginson (Wigan Warriors / Gold Coast Titans), Scott Taylor (Hull FC), Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos), Elliot Whitehead (Canberra Raiders), Gareth Widdop (St George Illawarra Dragons), George Williams (Wigan Warriors).

Pick a team from that, I'll go with;

FB; Ratchford W Hall C Watkins C Percival W McGillvary SH Gale SO Widdop Pr Graham Hk Hodgson Pr Hill SR Bateman SR Whitehead LF Burgess, S

Bench Burgess, G Burgess, T, Clarke, Lomax

I am unsure of a few to be honest including Centre what I am sure of this will likely not be the team!! I am bit surprised Jamie Shaul has missed out, any other omissions? Houghton deserved the Man of Steel but I think Clarke gives extra pace with Hodgson a shoe in, Roby has imo been by his own high standards not quite as good this year.

I don't think Widdop should be in, or Lomax, Percival, Sarginson, Ferres or a couple of ťhe Burgess boys (Sam or Luke). He's got to play Gale for me (best SH in SL for 2 seasons), but if he does than can't play Brown as far to similar for me. Backs do look abit light, forwards look strong.
Sort of feel for Houghton, fantastic player. But when you look at who he's been up against must be gut wrenching. Any other era probably one of the first names in the team.

SCOTLAND SQUAD (clubs in brackets)

D Addy (Bradford), S Atkins (St George), R Brierley (Huddersfield), S Brooks (Widnes), D Brough (Huddersfield), T Cassel (West Tigers), L Coote (North Queensland), L Douglas (Gold Coast), D Ferguson (Bradford), B Hellewell (London Broncos), L Hood (Leigh), B Kavanagh (Bradford), R Maneely (Halifax), F Mariano (Castleford), B McConnachie (Ipswich Jets), K Moran (Hull KR), B Phillips (Workington), C Phillips (Workington), S Powe-Hobbs (Northern Pride), M Russell (Warrington), L Tierney (Wigan), D Scott (Batley), A Walker (Hull KR).

NEW ZEALAND SQUAD

G Beale (Cronulla), A Blair (Brisbane), J Bromwich (Melbourne), L Brown (Manley), G Eastwood (Canterbury), D Fusitu'a (NZ Warriors), T Harris (Melbourne), S Johnson (NZ Warriors), J Kahu (Brisbane), S Kata (NZ Warriors), S Kenny-Dowall (Sydney Roosters), T Leuluai (NZ Warriors), I Luke (NZ Warriors), S Mannering (NZ Warriors), T Maire Martin (Penrith), M Ma'u (Parramatta), J Nightingale (St George), K Procter (Melbourne), J Rapana (Canberra), J Rapine (Raiders), J Rapine (Raiders), J Taumalolo (North Queensland), M Taupau (Manly), J Waerea-Hargreaves (Roosters), D Watene-Zelezniak (Penrith).

AUSTRALIA SQUAD

C Smith (Melbourne), D Boyd (Brisbane), S Boyd (Canberra), B Cordner (Roosters), C Cronk (Melbourne), J Duggan (St George), B Ferguson (Roosters), J Friend (Roosters), T Fizzell (St George), M Gillett (Brisbane), V Holmes (Cronulla), G Inglis (South Sydney), D Klemmer (Canterbury), J Maloney (Cronulla), J Mansour (Penrith), T Merrin (Penrith), M Morgan (North Queensland), M Moylan (Penrith), J O'Neill (North Queensland), J Papalli (Canberra), M Scott (North Queensland), S Thaiday (Brisbane), J Thurston (North Queensland), A Woods (West Tigers).

tigerrobins wrote:I don't think Widdop should be in, or Lomax, Percival, Sarginson, Ferres or a couple of ťhe Burgess boys (Sam or Luke). He's got to play Gale for me (best SH in SL for 2 seasons), but if he does than can't play Brown as far to similar for me. Backs do look abit light, forwards look strong.
Sort of feel for Houghton, fantastic player. But when you look at who he's been up against must be gut wrenching. Any other era probably one of the first names in the team.

I would have Gale over Brown any day of the week. Brown never impresses at all.

George Hotel1895 wrote:

tigerrobins wrote:I don't think Widdop should be in, or Lomax, Percival, Sarginson, Ferres or a couple of ťhe Burgess boys (Sam or Luke). He's got to play Gale for me (best SH in SL for 2 seasons), but if he does than can't play Brown as far to similar for me. Backs do look abit light, forwards look strong.
Sort of feel for Houghton, fantastic player. But when you look at who he's been up against must be gut wrenching. Any other era probably one of the first names in the team.

I would have Gale over Brown any day of the week. Brown never impresses at all.

to be honest George I agree, and have never quite understood this fascination with Brown. A good player made to look better by the players around him.
My halves would be Williams & Gale.

20 minutes gone in the Australia/ Scotland game. And the Aussies are already 22-0 up. If they really want could be 50+, as they're a different class.

20 minutes gone in the Australia/ Scotland game. And the Aussies are already 22-0 up. If they really want could be 50+, as they're a different class.

Yes, just listening to radio commentary, hiding on the way. Scotland have some good players but Danny Addy at SR is for example never going to shore the defence.

Sounds like Adam Walker is receiving an appropriately unwelcome reception from the KR faithful.

In fairness to Addy et al, 3 current/previous Bulls players in the team, games v Dewsbury/Sheffield and a Cumbrian team not ideal preparation for the Kangaroos. 30 - 0 kick to come......missed 5 mins to h/t.

And Australia win 54-12. And this while playing in 3rd gear for the last 50 odd minutes. Plenty of effort by the Scots players, just a distinct difference in class and know how. Though as Beast said, the difference in who the Scots players play for, games played recently. And the fact the players only met each other just before the tournament always meant this was going to be a massive ask.

As for the booing of Walker. My view he used to play for us, he dosn't now. So he's irrelevant to me anymore.

Can't help feeling that the tournament could go flat after tomorrow's game. As Australia are probably going to be in the final, along with the winners tomorrow. Could really do with an England win tomorrow, and then New Zealand to beat Australia next week.

That was a great half. New Zealand probably deserve the lead, as they've probably had the better of the attacking play and possession. But great defence by both sides, some enterprising attacking play. Strong forward play, hell even Robert Hicks is referring well.

New Zealand win a great test 17-16.

To be fair they probably just about deserved it. There attacking play was more incisive, there defence was fantastic, and in Shaun Johnson they had a player who controlled the game and who's infield kicking was superb.

England were okay, there last play options were poor (especially in the last 10 minutes). There's got to be a better center than Sarginsion. Sam Burgess was his typical self, a couple of good runs, but some stupid offloads and daft penalties. James Graham was outstanding.

So we move on to the double header at Coventry next week, as England play Scotland, New Zealand face Australia.

Missed the first half but have now seen the game re-played and I think you have hit the nail on the head.

NZ were more of an attacking threat, Dan Sarginson............sorry really but he was awful, all over the place for their first try resulting in an overlap, dropped a crucial ball in the last 10 and worse still generally does not appear to be able to pass the ball.

Shaun Johnson's display was nothing short of top class.

Tough to make the final from here.

The Beast wrote:Missed the first half but have now seen the game re-played and I think you have hit the nail on the head.  

NZ were more of an attacking threat, Dan Sarginson............sorry really but he was awful, all over the place for their first try resulting in an overlap, dropped a crucial ball in the last 10 and worse still generally does not appear to be able to pass the ball.

Shaun Johnson's display was nothing short of top class.

Tough to make the final from here.

Think your totally right about Sarginson. And if he played for any other club, he wouldn't be anywhere the England squad. An average player at best.
As for the last 10 minutes, why the hell did Hall go for the power effort on the last tackle. It obviously needed to go back in the centre.The last 10 minutes instead of trying to build pressure we seem intent on doing anything but.

Shaun Johnson is just pure class, and is probably the 2nd best player in the world after Thurston.

Need the Aussies to win next Saturday, to give us a chance. Trouble is can't see us beating the Aussies, and even if we did, certainly not twice in a row.
Be intresting if the Kiwi's win, at least for the tournament.
Also be intresting to see what changes Bennett makes, not for the game on Saturday, but for the Aussies, play with that side they stuff US.

According to this man this could be the last 4 nations tournament.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/four-nations/four-nations-rugby-league-2016-is-this-the-last-ever-tournament-20161027-gscfyy.html

I could not go last night but caught the England game on TV, frankly I am glad to have not wasted my money. England were awful in the first half, way too much power in the forwards for Scotland but failed to utilise it. Why they didn't spend the first 20 minutes just playing basic football softening them up is beyond me.

On the plus side Percival looks a step up from Sarginson (after last week this is not hugely complimentary) but I thought he looked ok when given the chance. Otherwise I have been a bit disappointed in Josh Hodgson's showing to date, George Williams was given MoM, a threat with the ball but kicking was imo very inconsistent.

No evidence they will get near the Aussies on this showing.

Any thoughts on Bennett's comments after the game? I have mixed views, whilst it is good to hear an honest view perhaps those comments would be better left behind closed doors?

Not sure it should be congratulations on a draw however Scotland become the first team outside of the usual 3 to get anything from a 4 nations match, very very well played v NZ on Friday. Hopefully England will play with the same spirit this afternoon.

Well England played with some spirit the first half arguably and best 40 minutes of the tournament however too many basic errors and lack of concentration contributed to the defeat. Australia to be fair were very very good on the back of a heavy penalty count in their favour in the second half. I think they will comfortably beat NZ in the final next weekend, that core of Smith, Cronk, Thruston is hard to better.

I personally think England have taken a backward step in this tournament, any thoughts?

To be honest I don't think Australia are as good as 2013. There spine of 1,6,7 & 9, are all world class and will go into the Australia RL hall of fame when they retire. But other than them there forwards are just massive there backs okay.

I think we needed to play more off the cuff rugby,( by that I mean more offloads, running at the fringes more, some chip kicks), because Australia are the best at structured RL, and we're not going to beat them by trying to match them.

I thought, Graham, McGillvary, Whitehead had good tournaments, Lomax was okay but would still have gone with Shaul. Gale wasn't used in a way that would bring out the best in him.
I was generally disappointed in Hodgson, Widdop, Watkins and the Burgess twins who in my opinion just have progressed or didn't add anything.
don't understand why Clarke wasn't used more. We don't have decent centers, and the rest should some okay.

I don't think we gone backwards Beast, I just think we've stood still.

Looking forward to todays game and hoping for kiwi victory, but i don't think its going t happen.

George Hotel1895 wrote:Looking forward to todays game and hoping for kiwi victory, but i don't think its going t happen.

Would have been nice but Australia at a different level. First 20 minutes summed it up, both sides had chances but Australia were 20 - 0 up very clinical. I can imagine Eng & NZ players walking off at the final whistle of their respective games thinking they have been in a tight contest until they look at the scoreboard.

The Beast wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:Looking forward to todays game and hoping for kiwi victory, but i don't think its going t happen.

Would have been nice but Australia at a different level.  First 20 minutes summed it up, both sides had chances but Australia were 20 - 0 up very clinical.  I can imagine Eng & NZ players walking off at the final whistle of their respective games thinking they have been in a tight contest until they look at the scoreboard.

Neither England or New Zealnd performed well at the 4 nations and i think I'm being kind

GOOD THINGS

The England/New Zealand test, Scotland who apart from the 1st 30 mins competed very well. The crowd at Workington.

BAD THINGS

England & New Zealand so far behind it's terrible. Playing games on Friday -there was just no need. Organization - for the test at craven park all summer told that you could only get tickets from the RFL,3 days before hand could suddenly get tickets from Rovers! Whoever thought that a double header in a non heartland ground should start at 5.30. Putting Scotland/New Zealand on the same night as England/Scotland football game. Reading about whats happening in Scotland after the rfl cut the funds there. Still always Canada!

The fact that throughout there was only one winner, and they played the England/Kiwi's game first instead of last, meant the tournament lost it's interest to me after the first weekend to me. Though I did see Scotland Australia game thanks to the above situation.

tigerrobins wrote:GOOD THINGS

The England/New Zealand test, Scotland who apart from the 1st 30 mins competed very well. The crowd at Workington.

BAD THINGS

England & New Zealand so far behind it's terrible. Playing games on Friday -there was just no need. Organization - for the test at craven park all summer told that you could only get tickets from the RFL,3 days before hand could suddenly get tickets from Rovers! Whoever thought that a double header in a non heartland ground should start at 5.30. Putting Scotland/New Zealand on the same night as England/Scotland football game. Reading about whats happening in Scotland after the rfl cut the funds there. Still always Canada!

The fact that throughout there was only one winner, and they played the England/Kiwi's game first instead of last, meant the tournament lost it's interest to me after the first weekend to me. Though I did see Scotland Australia game thanks to the above situation.

England to me seemed to go backwards at this 4 nations.
I'm hoping for big things from them in 2017 like doing really well at the world cup.