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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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Eng in India
England tour of India, 2016-17
Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot
Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam
Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali
Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune
Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack
Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur
Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur
Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru
Last edited by KP_fan on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Eng do not have any FC or practice game
DRS will be used in some form
Expect T3 Mohali to offer some cover of green and seam assistance and T4 Mumbai to have some bounce for faster bowlers
DRS will be used in some form
Expect T3 Mohali to offer some cover of green and seam assistance and T4 Mumbai to have some bounce for faster bowlers
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Its only seeing that you begin to appreciate just what a long tour this really is for guys who are in all 3 squads and who didnt miss Bangladesh. Even if they get rested and rotated out of the actual side its a hell of a long time to be in it. The festive break just elongates the whole thing.
I hope to god the tests are compeptitive ...if this goes the way of Ashes 2013/14 its going to be a long slow drawn out death.
I hope to god the tests are compeptitive ...if this goes the way of Ashes 2013/14 its going to be a long slow drawn out death.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
The way you make it sound...it appears like it's a drag & burden for those who have the fortune to stay fit and in form for all the entire series and privilege of being considered for all forms.Gooseberry wrote:Its only seeing that you begin to appreciate just what a long tour this really is for guys who are in all 3 squads and who didnt miss Bangladesh.
It should be matter of joy as a professional play for your country...the sport that was a hobby and a passion ( that's why people get into sport)...and to get paid handsomely to follow your passion.
after all the life at the top is between 5 years to an average 10 years....and every tour is a bit of fulfillment of life's dream.
That said it will be a tough tour......on the field with playing conditions and off it culturally for Eng side ...it's definitely a challenge.
India has not had a 5 test series since a few decades I think.
And there are no FC / practice games at all...which makes the trial of strategies / changing the combination harder mid-way through the series .
Presumably Eng used and is satisfied with BD part of the tour as preparation for India.....but a a costly and probably demoralizing price of losing their first ever test to BD and becoming the first ever major test side to lose to BD
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Could we have a tidier OP? It's going to be a long winter looking at that!
VTR- Posts : 5037
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg
Re: Eng in India
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2015-16/content/story/927341.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2015-16/engine/current/match/901775.html
37 wickets for Jadeja in 3 Ranji games last season at Rajkot against Hyderabad, Jharkhand and Tripura..of which Hyd and Jhar have some accomplished players of spin bowling.
all those games finished in 2 days or just over 2 days....
the relaid pitch at Rajkot last season is a minefield from the Ranji scorecards and that's why probably its has been chosen as the venue for T1
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2015-16/engine/current/match/901775.html
37 wickets for Jadeja in 3 Ranji games last season at Rajkot against Hyderabad, Jharkhand and Tripura..of which Hyd and Jhar have some accomplished players of spin bowling.
all those games finished in 2 days or just over 2 days....
the relaid pitch at Rajkot last season is a minefield from the Ranji scorecards and that's why probably its has been chosen as the venue for T1
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
I tried to clean it.VTR wrote:Could we have a tidier OP? It's going to be a long winter looking at that!
Hope it looks tidier
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Good work KP_Fan - thanks
Am looking forward to the series, my expectations are low, so any positive results for England will be a nice bonus. I think England will win at least one Test, as it would be hard for India to keep up the intensity needed for a 5-0 with such a punishing schedule. England definitely have it in them to put India into some trouble in a first innings and may be able to cash in on that
I think England's challenge is to win at least one of the Test matches whilst the series it live - that would be some achievement
Am looking forward to the series, my expectations are low, so any positive results for England will be a nice bonus. I think England will win at least one Test, as it would be hard for India to keep up the intensity needed for a 5-0 with such a punishing schedule. England definitely have it in them to put India into some trouble in a first innings and may be able to cash in on that
I think England's challenge is to win at least one of the Test matches whilst the series it live - that would be some achievement
VTR- Posts : 5037
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg
Re: Eng in India
When was the last time when India played a 5 test home series? Can't really remember anything this century. Their last 5 test engagement was v England, but that was an away tour. And the one before that has to be against the West Indies think in 1997? But when was the last time they played a 5 test home series?
msp83- Posts : 16100
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Don't think the Rajkot pitch would be that similar to the pitches on which Jadeja was absolutely unplayable! Could be broadly similar, but they would water it a bit more surely? Hope it does turn and bounce from ball one, but the uneven bounce can wait just a little bit.......
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Kp ...
The theory about loving the game is all well and good but burn out is a thing. Ask the indians about that time they came to England. Or indeed vaughn and co about the Ashes hangover.
Noone can keep the intesity indefinitely. Even if they are physically fit there is a drain from being away and in the spotlight for so long. Its even worse if things start to fall apart with results.
If theres a sure fire way to break stokes its to have him play every game on this tour.
The theory about loving the game is all well and good but burn out is a thing. Ask the indians about that time they came to England. Or indeed vaughn and co about the Ashes hangover.
Noone can keep the intesity indefinitely. Even if they are physically fit there is a drain from being away and in the spotlight for so long. Its even worse if things start to fall apart with results.
If theres a sure fire way to break stokes its to have him play every game on this tour.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
India Test squad: Virat Kohli, Gautam Gambhir, Murali Vijay, Karun Nair, Ajinkya Rahane, Cheteshwar Pujara, Wriddhiman Saha, Ravichandran Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Amit Mishra, Ishant Sharma, Mohammed Shami, Umesh Yadav, Hardik Pandya, Jayant Yadav
http://www.hindustantimes.com/sports/hardik-pandya-in-test-squad-vs-england-ishant-sharma-returns/story-JH0I6vgGqxUe3n3N23elhN.html
Pandya in
In my discussions with msp I have called him "the most exciting potential in India"...and it's a clear indication of the mindset of the selectors and the strategy of the team management........
Rohit, Rahul, Dhawan, Bhuvi...all injured especially Rohit injury means a higher chance for Pandya to play...
Likely 11 and batting order
1) Gambhir
2) Murali Vijay
3) Pujara
4) Kohli
5) Rahane
6) Ashwin
7) Saha
8) Pandya
9) Jadeja
10) Mishra
11) Sami
Batting down to No-10 that can get you a 50 with the bat,.....and No. 11 Sami also can be counted for 15 odd runs
3 very high quality spinners
2 seamers who can hit 140+
Rohit's injury a blessing in disguise towards the debate on balance of side
http://www.hindustantimes.com/sports/hardik-pandya-in-test-squad-vs-england-ishant-sharma-returns/story-JH0I6vgGqxUe3n3N23elhN.html
Pandya in
In my discussions with msp I have called him "the most exciting potential in India"...and it's a clear indication of the mindset of the selectors and the strategy of the team management........
Rohit, Rahul, Dhawan, Bhuvi...all injured especially Rohit injury means a higher chance for Pandya to play...
Likely 11 and batting order
1) Gambhir
2) Murali Vijay
3) Pujara
4) Kohli
5) Rahane
6) Ashwin
7) Saha
8) Pandya
9) Jadeja
10) Mishra
11) Sami
Batting down to No-10 that can get you a 50 with the bat,.....and No. 11 Sami also can be counted for 15 odd runs
3 very high quality spinners
2 seamers who can hit 140+
Rohit's injury a blessing in disguise towards the debate on balance of side
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
I think that was 1987 when Pak toured India under Imran with a young akram and Bangalore , the 5th test was Gavaskar's last...heartbreaking defeat by 16 runs on a minefield where gavaskar produced the highest quality batting you would ever see again spin on a minefield in his 97 ( given out caught only off the pads)msp83 wrote:When was the last time when India played a 5 test home series?
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
True....in practice its hard to keep the intensityGooseberry wrote:Kp ...
The theory about loving the game is all well and good but burn out is a thing. Ask the indians about that time they came to England. Or indeed vaughn and co about the Ashes hangover.
Noone can keep the intesity indefinitely. Even if they are physically fit there is a drain from being away and in the spotlight for so long. Its even worse if things start to fall apart with results.
If theres a sure fire way to break stokes its to have him play every game on this tour.
Eng must do with stokes what India has done with Jadeja and Ashwin..although both are very good limited over players...they were rested from the 5 ODIs....foreseeing their workload in the 3 concluded and 10 upcoming tests.
what was the issue with Broad?...why wasn't he played in T2 vs BD?
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
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Re: Eng in India
Theres not been any reports of a specific issue with Broad, and in a general context his resting seems odd given hes had one of the lighter workloads of all the senior pacers this year (all formats). He did bowl a monster session in the first test but was largely doing medium pace and using his cutters rather than being the aggresive bowler of home series.
Id assume what happeneing with him is that they are wanting him to play all 5 tests and bowl a significant number of overs in each, using Stokes/ Woakes / Others on rotation and for short bursts of pace. Theres a real risk that Anderson wont make it back at all, so theyve protected their other senior.
Broad is supposed to be over the injuries that dogged him for a few years, and has been adamant he wants to force his way back into the limited overs sides, if there was a genuine concern about his ability to handle lots of games in a year I wouldve thought the england team wouldve told him to forget it already which is effectively whats happened with Anderson.
Id assume what happeneing with him is that they are wanting him to play all 5 tests and bowl a significant number of overs in each, using Stokes/ Woakes / Others on rotation and for short bursts of pace. Theres a real risk that Anderson wont make it back at all, so theyve protected their other senior.
Broad is supposed to be over the injuries that dogged him for a few years, and has been adamant he wants to force his way back into the limited overs sides, if there was a genuine concern about his ability to handle lots of games in a year I wouldve thought the england team wouldve told him to forget it already which is effectively whats happened with Anderson.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Eng in India
So KPF, we get Pandya in. And Rohit is out injured, meaning there is a realistic chance of Pandya playing and we going in with 3 spinners. And like the look of your lineup too. Think they will bat Jadeja at 8 and Pandya 9 though, though I would have Pandya ahead of Saha at 7......
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Rohit's injury is certainly a blessing in disguise. Firstly, despite his recent semi decent performances, there is lots of uncertainty around his batting, his technique and more importantly temperament.
Secondly, he not there would mean India can go in with 5 bowlers, 3 spinners and2 seamers, the combination Kohli prefers in subcontinent conditions. Amit Mishra is a quality 3rd spin option for sure.
Third, it would free up both Cheteshwar Pujara and Virat Kohli's minds. Pujara would be able to play without the threat of the combination of the captain's preference for Rohit and the 5 bowler theory hanging over his head all the time. Kohli gets his 5 bowlers, gets his 3rd spinner, and wouldn't have to worry about inventing pathetic and incredulous reasonings for including Rohit in the team (though to be fair, he was beginning to look like a semi decent test batsman at times during the NZ series).
Secondly, he not there would mean India can go in with 5 bowlers, 3 spinners and2 seamers, the combination Kohli prefers in subcontinent conditions. Amit Mishra is a quality 3rd spin option for sure.
Third, it would free up both Cheteshwar Pujara and Virat Kohli's minds. Pujara would be able to play without the threat of the combination of the captain's preference for Rohit and the 5 bowler theory hanging over his head all the time. Kohli gets his 5 bowlers, gets his 3rd spinner, and wouldn't have to worry about inventing pathetic and incredulous reasonings for including Rohit in the team (though to be fair, he was beginning to look like a semi decent test batsman at times during the NZ series).
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Re: Eng in India
The Indian selectors led by MSK Prasad are a lightweight unit. But I like their approach. There is the champion's trophy and all that, but they rested Ashwin, Jadeja and Shami for the ODI series against New Zealand. Are willing to try new options, Jayant Yadav, Hardik Pandya, Karun Nair....... And most importantly, willing to talk and give reasons for selection call. MSK mentioned why they went for Hardik over Stuaart Binny and Rishi Dhawan, because of him better as a bowler, because he's able to bowl much quicker than the others and get the bowl to move, and of the potential to be good in both departments....... He also hinted at his temperament, mellowing down, and with Rahul Dravid and Anil Kumble, working on the mental side of his game....... And by mentioning Dhawan and Binny, he has given them a signal as well. Hope Dhawan in particular is listening, he has the physical attributes, he just needs to use them to good effect to bowl quicker. At his current pace, he won't be a factor with the ball for international batsmen on pitches that are absolute green seamers.......
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Re: Eng in India
I think the only weak link is Gambhir......the good news for him....Anderson is not availbale atleast till T3msp83 wrote:So KPF, we get Pandya in. And Rohit is out injured, meaning there is a realistic chance of Pandya playing and we going in with 3 spinners. And like the look of your lineup too. Think they will bat Jadeja at 8 and Pandya 9 though, though I would have Pandya ahead of Saha at 7......
I think if he delivers 30 odd also he has done his job...keeping expectations low from him....we will need all 11 to scramble fighting totals with the bat
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
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Re: Eng in India
With Pandya in, why did they bring Ishant back? Who would need him to bowl 4 feet outside off and provide the English batsmen a training session in leaving the ball!?
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Re: Eng in India
And hope Virat is already done with his quota of stupid selections for the year! Can't do that and hope to get away with it against a good side like England.
So no Ishant, or no Pujara opening and Virat himself batting 3 and all that nonsense please!
So no Ishant, or no Pujara opening and Virat himself batting 3 and all that nonsense please!
msp83- Posts : 16100
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Re: Eng in India
relax MSP...it takes a bit of time to identify strengths, weaknesses , whats works, which players can be entrusted....and Kohli has gone through the cycle...
It's been fast-tracked by Kumble being there.
Dhoni didn't learn in so many years
It's been fast-tracked by Kumble being there.
Dhoni didn't learn in so many years
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
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Re: Eng in India
Eng to go with 4 seamer...on Rajkot pitch .....this is called paralysis by over analysis
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket/world/england-do-a-u-turn-on-spin-policy-2086596
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket/world/england-do-a-u-turn-on-spin-policy-2086596
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
KP_fan wrote:Eng to go with 4 seamer...on Rajkot pitch .....this is called paralysis by over analysis
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket/world/england-do-a-u-turn-on-spin-policy-2086596
"To go with" is a bit of an exageration. The article is unsourced, citing "influential figures in the dressing room" and at the same time saying Cook and Bayliss both back 3 spinners.
It smacks of the same guesswork being bandied about by the press ahaead of the last test, and prior to the last series regarding Habeeb.
Could go with 4 seamers. Which has always been the case, and quite doable because of the number of genuine all rounders they have (and lack of specilist bowlers/batsmen)
The bit that is aof real value is the discussion around Rashid. The finger spinners seem to be in the box seat for positions, the real conumdrum is if they did go with just 2 plus Root do they go for Ansaris additional batting and judge his bowling on the second innings or Battys control and maturity and judge Ansari on his first innings mauling which was a major factor in England losing that game.
Having 2 rather than 3 front line spinners doesnt stop you from bowling bulk overs of spin, esepdcially as England seem set on having a seamer spinner combination for most of the time. What you do lose is variety and increased risk if the batsmen get at one or both of the spinners.
I can see why it would be on the table, I just dont see anything in this article that isnt just conjecture to suggest that its really going to happen.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Eng in India
I do subscribe to the theory that a leggie is likely to have little effect...Sodhi, Tahir, Bishoo, upul chandana, paul adams, ...Indian have seen and seen-off all wrist spinners with little damage including the great shane warne....so Rashid is unlikeyl to have an impact
what is likely to have more impact is tight-controlled finger spin, .....the higher the revs/ rip imparted by the spinner.....the more effective he will be..Swann, Monty, Lyon,Herath, Saqlain....and to a reasonable extent Vettori, Santner have been the ones to get wickets.
So Ali and Batty should play....although neither can give the rip like Monty and Swann.
and in a bit of radical but effective move, they can designate one or two of their seamers to ball medium pace cutters, with the keeper standing up.
Swann in his interview talked highly about Jack Leach a pure spinner...who should have been picked but was not because Eng is looking to pick bowling all-rounders when they pick spinners.
what is likely to have more impact is tight-controlled finger spin, .....the higher the revs/ rip imparted by the spinner.....the more effective he will be..Swann, Monty, Lyon,Herath, Saqlain....and to a reasonable extent Vettori, Santner have been the ones to get wickets.
So Ali and Batty should play....although neither can give the rip like Monty and Swann.
and in a bit of radical but effective move, they can designate one or two of their seamers to ball medium pace cutters, with the keeper standing up.
Swann in his interview talked highly about Jack Leach a pure spinner...who should have been picked but was not because Eng is looking to pick bowling all-rounders when they pick spinners.
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
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Re: Eng in India
The point re wrist spinners is something I had in mind a while ago when I suggested Ansari might be considered ahead of Rashid for the India Tests...especially if the pitches are conducive to that style of bowling.
However if England choose just two main spinners will they be game to leave out the steadier Batty ? If they prefer his control then we are looking at rather a lack of variety : three off spinners including Root.
I suspect we will see three spinners ; at least for this first Test.
However if England choose just two main spinners will they be game to leave out the steadier Batty ? If they prefer his control then we are looking at rather a lack of variety : three off spinners including Root.
I suspect we will see three spinners ; at least for this first Test.
alfie- Posts : 21747
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Re: Eng in India
Kp ...would you rate Battys control and experience as more valuable than Ansaris (slightly) better turn and the avriety he gives on a left right arm combo? An Ali Root Batty spin attack is pretty one dimensional in terms of the angles they offer. If anything this backs up the problem with England picking just 2 spinners + Root.
Leach was bandied about as an option, but is he really better than Rashid who has years of success in the county game and a reasoanble limited overs record..even before you count his batting in the mix. Should he have come instead of Ansari? 2 leg spinners wasnt ever going to happen. If there were pure spinners out there good enough they would be getting the chances ... but England got reduced to picking ones like Tredwell and now Batty in a desperate attempt to find them. The same goes with the seamers, the all rounders are doing a much better job than specialists like Finn who has been woeful for years now. Jake Balls no faster than Woakes Stokes and got destroyed on his debut. Both Woakes and Stokes have better averages than Wood.
England really only have two speciallist bowlers who genuinely demand a place in a first side, and one of them is crocked. The disater zone thats spread from 2/3 to 4 and now 5 in the batting means its just as well that our best bowlers also happen to be able to bat a bit as well.
If theyd come with Leach Batty and (err can anyone actually think of another specialists pinner vaguely selectable?) Then they would have struggled to accomdate two in the side without dropping Ali.
Liam Dawson, Malan and Scott Borthwick are batting spinners whos names have been around the England side (and in Borthwicks case he has the best test average of any active England spin bowler) but didnt get selected ahead of Batty, or indded Rashid whos very much a bowler first batsman second. So I really dont buy the argument that England are selecting on batting rather than bowling.
Swann shouldnt protest too much on that front either, England got accused of the same when they first started picking him. He is right that our spinners are a bit rubbish now but is that news?
And actually there is the biggest argument against a 4 2 attack ... who is the 4th seamer going to be? Finn? Jeez.
Leach was bandied about as an option, but is he really better than Rashid who has years of success in the county game and a reasoanble limited overs record..even before you count his batting in the mix. Should he have come instead of Ansari? 2 leg spinners wasnt ever going to happen. If there were pure spinners out there good enough they would be getting the chances ... but England got reduced to picking ones like Tredwell and now Batty in a desperate attempt to find them. The same goes with the seamers, the all rounders are doing a much better job than specialists like Finn who has been woeful for years now. Jake Balls no faster than Woakes Stokes and got destroyed on his debut. Both Woakes and Stokes have better averages than Wood.
England really only have two speciallist bowlers who genuinely demand a place in a first side, and one of them is crocked. The disater zone thats spread from 2/3 to 4 and now 5 in the batting means its just as well that our best bowlers also happen to be able to bat a bit as well.
If theyd come with Leach Batty and (err can anyone actually think of another specialists pinner vaguely selectable?) Then they would have struggled to accomdate two in the side without dropping Ali.
Liam Dawson, Malan and Scott Borthwick are batting spinners whos names have been around the England side (and in Borthwicks case he has the best test average of any active England spin bowler) but didnt get selected ahead of Batty, or indded Rashid whos very much a bowler first batsman second. So I really dont buy the argument that England are selecting on batting rather than bowling.
Swann shouldnt protest too much on that front either, England got accused of the same when they first started picking him. He is right that our spinners are a bit rubbish now but is that news?
And actually there is the biggest argument against a 4 2 attack ... who is the 4th seamer going to be? Finn? Jeez.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Bit harsh to say Finn has been rubbish for years , Goose : he has had some good matches in between the ordinary and downright poor ; probably fairer to say that he (a) hasn't lived up to his early promise ; and (b) is the (im)perfect model of inconsistency ...
But I agree with your summation that he isn't worth picking at present in preference to a spinner.
I'm a bit more positive about both Wood (pity he is so fragile) and Ball - who was , in my view , a bit better than his figures indicated on his debut. I would certainly like to see him again at some point ; though with no recent matches under his belt I'm not sure now is the time...
Looming problem : if we accept that five Tests in quick succession is likely to tax the seamers to the point that someone will be needed to freshen up the attack , then we are definitely looking at bringing in a bowler without first class match practice.
Hopefully this will be Jimmy , who is good enough to get away with it. But if he doesn't come up ...
But I agree with your summation that he isn't worth picking at present in preference to a spinner.
I'm a bit more positive about both Wood (pity he is so fragile) and Ball - who was , in my view , a bit better than his figures indicated on his debut. I would certainly like to see him again at some point ; though with no recent matches under his belt I'm not sure now is the time...
Looming problem : if we accept that five Tests in quick succession is likely to tax the seamers to the point that someone will be needed to freshen up the attack , then we are definitely looking at bringing in a bowler without first class match practice.
Hopefully this will be Jimmy , who is good enough to get away with it. But if he doesn't come up ...
alfie- Posts : 21747
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Re: Eng in India
I really haven't see Batty enough at all....except for a few minutes of BD highlights.....Gooseberry wrote:Kp ...would you rate Battys control and experience as more valuable than Ansaris (slightly) better turn and the avriety he gives on a left right arm combo? An Ali Root Batty spin attack is pretty one dimensional in terms of the angles they offer. If anything this backs up the problem with England picking just 2 spinners + Root.
Nor have i watched the style of Ansari to form any opinion yet
Nor have I seen Leach...juts read Swann on CI
In principle---Leggies won't be effective.....and play your most accurate finger spinners...atleast the devils in the pitch will get such accurate spinners the wickets in 3rd and 4th innings.
and if you have two such accurate finger spinners...even if they are both "Offies".....and bowling from both ends...is better than just one guy from one end.
So I am not commenting on the quality of Anasari( because I haven't seen him) ...but simply stating...play your best finger spinners, even if they are all alike rather than a lesser in the guise of variety
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
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Re: Eng in India
Fair comment KP.
It does leave the options wide open for England then. No doubt they will get heavily critisized whatever they do. At least they cant select Samit Fatel this time.
Its only just dawned on me that 3 of Englands 4 spinners have a Pakstani family backgrounds. Theres been some talk in the press of security threats to Moeen from "right wing Hindu extremists" which is almost ironic given that the previous talk was all about the threat from Muslim hardliners from Pakistan.
It does leave the options wide open for England then. No doubt they will get heavily critisized whatever they do. At least they cant select Samit Fatel this time.
Its only just dawned on me that 3 of Englands 4 spinners have a Pakstani family backgrounds. Theres been some talk in the press of security threats to Moeen from "right wing Hindu extremists" which is almost ironic given that the previous talk was all about the threat from Muslim hardliners from Pakistan.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Well, Tahir did have some success in terms of wickets when he came to India last year. He did go for a few though, and those few were far too many for the South African batting unit.......
msp83- Posts : 16100
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Rashid is likely to bowl more wickettaking balls. But he's likely to give away a few more runs than the likes of Batty. Ansari is not likely to take too many wickets or keep the batsmen under too much of a check. So it has to be Batty ahead of him. England did have some success with a 38 year old spinner in the form of Udal when they came calling in 2006. Perhaps Batty can do something similar........
msp83- Posts : 16100
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
I have seen a lot of Ansari over several years. First he would never make the grade from Cambridge to County Cricket: he did. Then he would never make the step up in England from CC2 to CC1: he did. Then he would never make the step up to Test Cricket. Well his debut was a typical mixed bag. He almost had a wicket with his second ball in the first innings and had three catches dropped off him in the second. He was out to a wonderful catch and a rebound. Doesn't mean he's Test standard, but it doesn't mean he isn't.
He does, however, have a happy knack of making things happen. He can get good turn from unresponsive pitches, and is never afraid to vary his line and length (ahem ...shame about the full tosses, I know: first night nerves? ). In sum, a very talented thinking cricketer. In contrast to Rashid, I think Ansari could become a mainstay of England's Test side, less probably the one day set up. I'd like to see an England Test attack next summer with Leach and Ansari as the principal spinners, backed up by Ali. We have enough all-rounder seamers to accommodate them all in the XI.
He does, however, have a happy knack of making things happen. He can get good turn from unresponsive pitches, and is never afraid to vary his line and length (ahem ...shame about the full tosses, I know: first night nerves? ). In sum, a very talented thinking cricketer. In contrast to Rashid, I think Ansari could become a mainstay of England's Test side, less probably the one day set up. I'd like to see an England Test attack next summer with Leach and Ansari as the principal spinners, backed up by Ali. We have enough all-rounder seamers to accommodate them all in the XI.
SimonofSurrey- Posts : 909
Join date : 2011-05-07
Location : TW2
Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:Bit harsh to say Finn has been rubbish for years , Goose : he has had some good matches in between the ordinary and downright poor ; probably fairer to say that he (a) hasn't lived up to his early promise ; and (b) is the (im)perfect model of inconsistency ...
But I agree with your summation that he isn't worth picking at present in preference to a spinner.
I'm a bit more positive about both Wood (pity he is so fragile) and Ball - who was , in my view , a bit better than his figures indicated on his debut. I would certainly like to see him again at some point ; though with no recent matches under his belt I'm not sure now is the time...
Looming problem : if we accept that five Tests in quick succession is likely to tax the seamers to the point that someone will be needed to freshen up the attack , then we are definitely looking at bringing in a bowler without first class match practice.
Hopefully this will be Jimmy , who is good enough to get away with it. But if he doesn't come up ...
According to the Mail Anderson goes to India on Monday. He won't play in Broad's 100 Test though.
Jetty- Posts : 328
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Eng in India
Good news . If Jimmy can play from the second Test onwards that will give England a serious lift.
I honestly didn't think he'd miss the whole show as he was bowling in nets a while ago ...but it is a relief to have him on the plane.
Now if we can just do something about the batting...
I honestly didn't think he'd miss the whole show as he was bowling in nets a while ago ...but it is a relief to have him on the plane.
Now if we can just do something about the batting...
alfie- Posts : 21747
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:Good news . If Jimmy can play from the second Test onwards that will give England a serious lift.
I honestly didn't think he'd miss the whole show as he was bowling in nets a while ago ...but it is a relief to have him on ithe plane.
Now if we can just do something about the batting...
I would bring in Hameed but Bayliss will want Buttler and his aggressive batting. Cook last time in India s/r 43.73. We need the batsmen to spend time at the crease but with so many ODI players in the team I doubt that will happen. Duckett . 6 1b 1 W - is that the way to bat in your first over?
Jetty- Posts : 328
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Eng in India
I am also hoping Root has an average series which he is due for
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
KP_fan wrote:I am also hoping Root has an average series which he is due for
He had a rather below average series against Bangladesh.
Hopefully that means he's on for a monster runfest now
alfie- Posts : 21747
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
that was not a series...but the tip of the ice-berg to a series
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Yes Joe is the biggest threat, even more than Cook who has an exceptional record in India.
msp83- Posts : 16100
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
http://indianexpress.com/sports/india-vs-england-2016/india-vs-england-2016-the-third-musketeer-of-rajkot-3739319/
The first article that appears on the rajkot pitch.....how it looks now and what he is likely to do to the pitch two days before the game..
"Rasik Makwana is 67, has tended the pitches here for over five decades and is easily the most dangerous man for the overseas teams in these parts of Gujarat. He is the man singlehandedly instrumental in reviving the sagging career of Jadeja, and helping him make his India comeback last year, by producing sand pits that helped Jadeja to get 38 wickets in four Ranji games. He is also the guy who perhaps was the most responsible for the Indian cricket board to shift Ranji games to neutral venues from this year.
He smiles when asked about the state of the pitch for the first Test in Rajkot. The occasion of the inaugural game seems to have restrained him from laying out another Jadeja special.
On Friday, the pitch was decently hard, was beige in colour, and shouldn’t worry the batsmen. As of now that is. It can change anytime if someone higher up has a quiet word in his ear.
He wasn’t at the new stadium on Friday, as he was overseeing the pitches at the old stadium for the U-19 Cooch Behar tournament. The history here, though, suggests it would just need them two days to inflict a character change of the soil. Read that slowly, Cook and Co. Just two days.
The trick is pretty simple. Water on the good length areas, let it soak in to 2mm depth, and just wait for the magic potion to do its bit. In two days, those areas would go softer, and an odd boot pressed on it on the first day would dent it enough to produce decent rough patches to aim for. Jadeja knows how to land them there, and Ashwin can cause enough heartbreak without curator’s help but won’t mind such assistance. Would the locals, however, desire a five-day Test for their historic first Test? The Indians have arrived; would someone in the team management have a quiet word or two to Rasikbhai?"
The first article that appears on the rajkot pitch.....how it looks now and what he is likely to do to the pitch two days before the game..
"Rasik Makwana is 67, has tended the pitches here for over five decades and is easily the most dangerous man for the overseas teams in these parts of Gujarat. He is the man singlehandedly instrumental in reviving the sagging career of Jadeja, and helping him make his India comeback last year, by producing sand pits that helped Jadeja to get 38 wickets in four Ranji games. He is also the guy who perhaps was the most responsible for the Indian cricket board to shift Ranji games to neutral venues from this year.
He smiles when asked about the state of the pitch for the first Test in Rajkot. The occasion of the inaugural game seems to have restrained him from laying out another Jadeja special.
On Friday, the pitch was decently hard, was beige in colour, and shouldn’t worry the batsmen. As of now that is. It can change anytime if someone higher up has a quiet word in his ear.
He wasn’t at the new stadium on Friday, as he was overseeing the pitches at the old stadium for the U-19 Cooch Behar tournament. The history here, though, suggests it would just need them two days to inflict a character change of the soil. Read that slowly, Cook and Co. Just two days.
The trick is pretty simple. Water on the good length areas, let it soak in to 2mm depth, and just wait for the magic potion to do its bit. In two days, those areas would go softer, and an odd boot pressed on it on the first day would dent it enough to produce decent rough patches to aim for. Jadeja knows how to land them there, and Ashwin can cause enough heartbreak without curator’s help but won’t mind such assistance. Would the locals, however, desire a five-day Test for their historic first Test? The Indians have arrived; would someone in the team management have a quiet word or two to Rasikbhai?"
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Sounds quite menacing
My personal hope is that the pitch is what I would call a good Indian one...not a complete dustbowl ; but one on which the spinners get plenty of assistance , increasing as the game progresses - while allowing good patient batsmen to score runs.
That way no-one is going to complain about unfairness and we will all get to see some decent cricket over at least four days. I really don't mind the odd minefield by way of variety (I don't have to bat on it !) ; but I would prefer things to be mixed up a bit over the course of a series.
My personal hope is that the pitch is what I would call a good Indian one...not a complete dustbowl ; but one on which the spinners get plenty of assistance , increasing as the game progresses - while allowing good patient batsmen to score runs.
That way no-one is going to complain about unfairness and we will all get to see some decent cricket over at least four days. I really don't mind the odd minefield by way of variety (I don't have to bat on it !) ; but I would prefer things to be mixed up a bit over the course of a series.
alfie- Posts : 21747
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
seam friendly pitch ( or as seam friendly as it gets in India) likely in T4 Mohali and seamers bounce friendly in T5 Mumbaialfie wrote: I really don't mind the odd minefield by way of variety (I don't have to bat on it !) ; but I would prefer things to be mixed up a bit over the course of a series.
KP_fan- Posts : 10497
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Apparently Nuttlers played 1 first class game since getting dropped form the test side for not being good enough.
His last cricket was a warm up nearly a month ago ahead of the Bangladesh tests where he scored 4.
If he gets selected for the first test it would be a hell of a leap of faith in his "raw talent" and "ability to make things happen" ...excellent ODI form not withstanding.
Or to put it another way, desperation.
His last cricket was a warm up nearly a month ago ahead of the Bangladesh tests where he scored 4.
If he gets selected for the first test it would be a hell of a leap of faith in his "raw talent" and "ability to make things happen" ...excellent ODI form not withstanding.
Or to put it another way, desperation.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Well now we know Hameed has replaced Ballance - apparently the Buttler talk was a smokescreen. Or they might have taken notice of Goose
So we just need to settle the two spinners (surely?) to assist Moeen. You could make a case for any combination : Rashid and Ansari gives more batting and every variety of spin ; Batty and Rashid more experience and a mix of control and potential destructiveness ; Ansari and Batty perhaps a few less four balls and plenty of interest for the Surrey Mafia...
I actually lean to the last of these ; because I suspect the type of pitch that will be produced will suit the finger spin of Ansari better than Rashid's style...but I won't die in a ditch over it. I do think they will want Batty for a bit of control.
Hope Broad can celebrate his hundredth Test with a good game : he had no success four years ago ...if he gets it right this time it would go a long way to helping England compete.
So we just need to settle the two spinners (surely?) to assist Moeen. You could make a case for any combination : Rashid and Ansari gives more batting and every variety of spin ; Batty and Rashid more experience and a mix of control and potential destructiveness ; Ansari and Batty perhaps a few less four balls and plenty of interest for the Surrey Mafia...
I actually lean to the last of these ; because I suspect the type of pitch that will be produced will suit the finger spin of Ansari better than Rashid's style...but I won't die in a ditch over it. I do think they will want Batty for a bit of control.
Hope Broad can celebrate his hundredth Test with a good game : he had no success four years ago ...if he gets it right this time it would go a long way to helping England compete.
alfie- Posts : 21747
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
Ballance had to go and it is the best way forward to go with a youngster. Hameed will be under pressure though and if he comes out of the series with an average around 30 to 35 he will have done very well and the same applies to Duckett.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 56
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Eng in India
Been reading an Agnew article on BBC ...headlined "How England can avoid a 5-0 Whitewash".
Nothing like positivity.
Perhaps it is because I've lived in Australia for a long time ; but I find the capacity to take such a negative view of the team's prospects almost incomprehensible . Sure , India at home are favourites : but to think 5-0 is the most likely outcome ? Bit too pessimistic , is it not ?
England have weaknesses. Top order batting lately has been rubbish , and the spin options are a little underwhelming ; but these things can be overcome . If young Hameed turns out to be the real thing , who knows ? Top four might be suddenly functional again ...and the oft criticized Moeen made a mess of India's batsmen in England a couple of years ago...
Not predicting a glorious repeat of 2012 ; but not ready to concede in advance.
Will watch the first Test before reviewing above opinions...
Nothing like positivity.
Perhaps it is because I've lived in Australia for a long time ; but I find the capacity to take such a negative view of the team's prospects almost incomprehensible . Sure , India at home are favourites : but to think 5-0 is the most likely outcome ? Bit too pessimistic , is it not ?
England have weaknesses. Top order batting lately has been rubbish , and the spin options are a little underwhelming ; but these things can be overcome . If young Hameed turns out to be the real thing , who knows ? Top four might be suddenly functional again ...and the oft criticized Moeen made a mess of India's batsmen in England a couple of years ago...
Not predicting a glorious repeat of 2012 ; but not ready to concede in advance.
Will watch the first Test before reviewing above opinions...
alfie- Posts : 21747
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
Happy they've made the batting line up change. Hope hameed goes well
Would expect it to be Batty, Moeen and Rashid
Would expect it to be Batty, Moeen and Rashid
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51281
Join date : 2011-09-19
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Re: Eng in India
CaledonianCraig wrote:Ballance had to go and it is the best way forward to go with a youngster. Hameed will be under pressure though and if he comes out of the series with an average around 30 to 35 he will have done very well and the same applies to Duckett.
Its only 3 years ago since Ballance was a youngster coming into the team during that disastrous Ashes. What a shame his career fell off a cliff after such an excellent start - he really looked the part during 2014
VTR- Posts : 5037
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg
Re: Eng in India
India would also have a few decisions on their combination. KL Rahul's injury means Gambhir would be holding on to his opening spot along with Murali Vijay. But who would come in for Rohit Sharma? Hardik Pandya the all-rounder? Or AKarun Nair the more accomplished batsman who have had squad time earlier also with the test side? Hope it is a lively spinning wicket, and they go in for Pandya at 7, and Shami as the led seamer. Ashwin, Jadeja, to be supported by Amit Mishra. Ishant will be no good. He would let Cook and Hameed settle in, by providing them a training session in leaving the ball, by consistently threatening the wide line!
msp83- Posts : 16100
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