Munster Nucifora's Pet Province?

First topic message reminder :

I think it was another reporter in the same paper said that Nucifora may be taking Munster on as a sort of personal project, getting Erasmus (his man) in and getting them on the right path again, it can be taken with a pinch of salt but reading more

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/ruaidhri-oconnor-ben-smith-capture-would-catapult-munster-back-to-the-top-table-35307339.html

"Talk of Ben Smith joining Munster...... the province may have sought outside help to bring Smith in. IRFU performance director Nucifora has spoken of his willingness to get private investors involved."

"Erasmus is working hard to increase his options next season, with Irish-qualified trio Chris Farrell, JJ Hanrahan and James Hart on the way, while Munster are likely to be allowed retain one of Jaco Taute or Francis Saili."

"Rhys Marshall, a project player from New Zealand, has already joined and uncapped South African prop Oliver Kebble has been linked with a move."

Munster couldn't afford their stadium repayments last year and are now in talks with Smith?

How much of this is true?

How much is down to Munster, and how much Nucifora?

How can Munster get Hart to be behind Murray, and have Pienaar leave Ulster? (why is Nucifora not making this an Ulster move to replace Pienaar)
Allowed an NIQ center forever and add a NIQ fullback, yet they have not produced any centers and have to relay on former Ulster ones Farrell, and Arnold?

If any of this is true fair play to Munster, but if its true and Nucifora is involved I wouldn't be as happy.
How can Nucifora push through all this for Munster who have limited finances, yet can't assit in moving some backrows to Ulster?

Jean Deysel? Since when did he play lock?

Munster have become a province with fair weather supporters, if the IRFU didn't give them special favours the revenue would just keep slipping away.

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Hasn't Copeland covered second row before as well?

Anyway I look forward to hearing who Ulsters Medical Joker is for Coetzee is.

Copeland played once for Cardiff and once for Munster at lock - both in the Pro12 games.

Munster is still in the Champs Cup, B&I Cup and on track for a playoff place  in the Pro12. Apart from the chances are of an injury to Ryan or Holland, it would be financial suicide (for Munster & IRFU) not to try and make the finals of these three competitions.

But even you have to admit that being allowed 3 NIQ locks and 8 NIQ players overall is pushing it.

I'm sure Connacht fans are annoyed when Marnitz Boshoff, Craig Ronaldson, Shane O'Leary, Jack Carty were injured, that they were not allowed to bring in a 2nd NIQ outhalf medical joker and were told to use their resources.

Yet Munster lose Chisholm, Kleyn & Dave Foley and are allowed a 3rd NIQ lock medical joker

Doesn't seam like the rules are being applied to all Provinces equally, does it?

The IRFU and Nucifora have defined double standards with this. The hypocrisy is palpable, they surely cannot expect to be taken seriously. Sadly this is tainting provincial rugby for me and that's the last thing I would ever want to happen.

Kingshu wrote:
But even you have to admit that being allowed 3 NIQ locks and 8 NIQ players overall is pushing it.

Which 2 of the 10 munster niqs are you ignoring?

Du Toit, Marshall, Kleyn, Toma, Bleyendaal, Saili, Taute, Chisholm, Deysel and Griesel

Nice to see the USA Branch of the Munster Supporters Club strutting their stuff down 5th Avenue today in the St Patrick's Day Parade.

The Grand Marshall this year is a Limerick man.

Just watching some super rugby - anyone know if Jack Dempsey of Warratahs is IQ? Not capped for Australia yet. What's the qualification? Grandparents? Great Grandparents?

clivemcl wrote:Just watching some super rugby - anyone know if Jack Dempsey of Warratahs is IQ? Not capped for Australia yet. What's the qualification? Grandparents? Great Grandparents?

He's capped at under 20 level clive, pretty sure they are the designated second team for the Aussies

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Just watching some super rugby - anyone know if Jack Dempsey of Warratahs is IQ? Not capped for Australia yet. What's the qualification? Grandparents? Great Grandparents?

He's capped at under 20 level clive, pretty sure they are the designated second team for the Aussies

ah well... the search continues for an answer to Ulsters backrow!

clivemcl wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Just watching some super rugby - anyone know if Jack Dempsey of Warratahs is IQ? Not capped for Australia yet. What's the qualification? Grandparents? Great Grandparents?

He's capped at under 20 level clive, pretty sure they are the designated second team for the Aussies

ah well... the search continues for an answer to Ulsters backrow!

The answer is Steve Austin, would mean no dodgy angles or weak knees

Maybe we could hi-jack Jean Deysel's Munster move, after all we need a backrow, more than they need a 3rd NIQ lock, and he is more of a flanker anyway, he's required more and fits better at Ulster.

Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

That'll be Deysel getting a contract next year then

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

Meh, Ulster don't a lock, even if he would be a great signing.

I will believe Ryan is leaving when Munster announce it themselves. Could be his agent playing games. A blow to Munster, and Ireland, if true though.

Bit disappointed to see him heading off. I think he has become one of the most important players in the pack this season and I was looking forward to seeing more from him and Henderson. This is assuming that he won't be considered as special circumstances in the row.

I guess with Toner, Henderson and Dillane he won't be? Although, our of the 4 options we have used recently, I'd have him there first.

Munchkin wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

Meh, Ulster don't a lock, even if he would be a great signing.

I will believe Ryan is leaving when Munster announce it themselves. Could be his agent playing games. A blow to Munster, and Ireland, if true though.

Yeah it's not definite. Although the Irish examiner are fairly sure.

There were some reports just after Christmas that the IRFU were not renewing his central contract. Then he was dropped by Schmidt completely for the game v. Scotland. I suspect it might be true that he is on his way. Good luck to him, he has been a great servant to Munster & Ireland.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

Meh, Ulster don't a lock, even if he would be a great signing.

I will believe Ryan is leaving when Munster announce it themselves. Could be his agent playing games. A blow to Munster, and Ireland, if true though.

Yeah it's not definite. Although the Irish examiner are fairly sure.

And ROG writes a column for the Examiner. IRFU usually tie up all their central contracts prior to/during 6Ns.

Still, believe it when it's official.

I would go with sin e. It's probably a done deal. Getting dicked around by the irfu doesn't help. Like poc and others he owes nothing. Sounds like a good move to me.

Anyone see the Glasgow Connacht game. Glasgow are turning into a nasty piece of work this year. What would you expect I suppose

http://www.the42.ie/donnacha-ryan-munster-racing-92-move-3308462-Mar2017/

Munster's Ryan set to earn €300,000 per season with move to Racing 92

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Anyone see the Glasgow Connacht game. Glasgow are turning into a nasty piece of work this year. What would you expect I suppose

Said the same on the Ulster thread, the number of high tackles was atrocious, Carty getting a yellow when Gordon Reid didn't even get a penalty giving against him was laughable

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

Great player, very underrated. Doesn't have the imposing physique of many modern locks but an incredible athlete and competitor.

I think he is still very much at his peak so sorry to see him leave if this is true but don't begrudge him a payday.

Treadwell is really impressing for Ulster so I wonder will this enhance his international opportunities next season.

Think its fair enough Ryan has given plenty to Munster why not take a big payday same as PoC planned to.

I know some are upset he wasn't offered a central contract, but he wasn't always a starter, and its better to give one of these to a younger player like Henderson. So can't blame the IRFU for this one

I don't think Munster could match €300,000 per season for him.

Kingshu wrote:Think its fair enough Ryan has given plenty to Munster why not take a big payday same as PoC planned to.

I know some are upset he wasn't offered a central contract, but he wasn't always a starter, and its better to give one of these to a younger player like Henderson. So can't blame the IRFU for this one

I don't think Munster could match €300,000 per season for him.

He should have been when fit. Schmidt has built Ireland around Toner who is as soft as putty. The jury is also out on Henderson in my opinion. He is a great athlete but lacks agression in the Brad Thorn, POC, Nathan Hines, DOC, AW Jones mould.

Its something that Eddie Jones has told Itoje to sort out.

There are only 14 central contracts at present, Toner has one, so I think the best Ryan could have got was a one year extension.

I think the IRFU are right not to offer him one, as even though he is in good form he has had a few injuries over the last few years,

I wish we were in a position to offer 20-25 players central contracts like we used to. It does show the importance of making the Pro 12 better off as the IRFU can afford less as this happens the provinces need to be able to afford more.

Kingshu wrote:There are only 14 central contracts at present, Toner has one, so I think the best Ryan could have got was a one year extension.

I think the IRFU are right not to offer him one, as even though he is in good form he has had a few injuries over the last few years,

I wish we were in a position to offer 20-25 players central contracts like we used to. It does show the importance of making the Pro 12 better off as the IRFU can afford less as this happens the provinces need to be able to afford more.

Ryan had a toe problem which took a while to sort out. Other than that, he didn't start playing rugby until he was 18 and has been has been relatively injury free since his toe injury. He doesn't have a lot on the clock. Ryan will be a phenomenal signing for Racing.

The problem with what has happened is that Schmidt, having built Ireland's gameplan around Devin Toner's assured ball in the lineout has been found out and easy to defend against. Thats why he was dropped versus England after the Welsh debacle. Schmidt should have learned in the game v. Scotland.

Its also noticable that Henderson plays much better along side Ryan (and POC) than he does alongside Toner.

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:There are only 14 central contracts at present, Toner has one, so I think the best Ryan could have got was a one year extension.

I think the IRFU are right not to offer him one, as even though he is in good form he has had a few injuries over the last few years,

I wish we were in a position to offer 20-25 players central contracts like we used to. It does show the importance of making the Pro 12 better off as the IRFU can afford less as this happens the provinces need to be able to afford more.

Ryan had a toe problem which took a while to sort out. Other than that, he didn't start playing rugby until he was 18 and has been has been relatively injury free since his toe injury. He doesn't have a lot on the clock. Ryan will be a phenomenal signing for Racing.

The problem with what has happened is that Schmidt, having built Ireland's gameplan around Devin Toner's assured ball in the lineout has been found out and easy to defend against. Thats why he was dropped versus England after the Welsh debacle. Schmidt should have learned in the game v. Scotland.

Its also noticable that Henderson plays much better along side Ryan (and POC) than he does alongside Toner.

Ryan is probably the only guy to have a central contract who hasn't really been a regular starter over the years. He was lucky enough to be on one in the first place.

rodders wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Sorry to interrupt the old whinge fest but Donnacha Ryan off to racing 92. Good for him.

Great player, very underrated. Doesn't have the imposing physique of many modern locks but an incredible athlete and competitor.

I think he is still very much at his peak so sorry to see him leave if this is true but don't begrudge him a payday.

Treadwell is really impressing for Ulster so I wonder will this enhance his international opportunities next season.

Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with Treadwell at first but he has been excellent recently. I thought he looked quite cumbersome at first but his break against the Dragons was something to behold. Almost Ferris-esque.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:There are only 14 central contracts at present, Toner has one, so I think the best Ryan could have got was a one year extension.

I think the IRFU are right not to offer him one, as even though he is in good form he has had a few injuries over the last few years,

I wish we were in a position to offer 20-25 players central contracts like we used to. It does show the importance of making the Pro 12 better off as the IRFU can afford less as this happens the provinces need to be able to afford more.

Ryan had a toe problem which took a while to sort out. Other than that, he didn't start playing rugby until he was 18 and has been has been relatively injury free since his toe injury. He doesn't have a lot on the clock. Ryan will be a phenomenal signing for Racing.

The problem with what has happened is that Schmidt, having built Ireland's gameplan around Devin Toner's assured ball in the lineout has been found out and easy to defend against. Thats why he was dropped versus England after the Welsh debacle. Schmidt should have learned in the game v. Scotland.

Its also noticable that Henderson plays much better along side Ryan (and POC) than he does alongside Toner.

Ryan is probably the only guy to have a central contract who hasn't really been a regular starter over the years. He was lucky enough to be on one in the first place.

Na, that was just Schmidt poor team selections. He picked the wrong lock to try and build his team around. Toner's being found out.

Schmidt is hardly going to build his team around a 33 year old who has never been a regular starter under any Ireland coach. He is a good player but if he was good enough Munster would have offered him a bigger contract.

Schmidt's team selections are good enough to have the best win loss record of any Ireland coach ever so thats enough for me.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Schmidt is hardly going to build his team around a 33 year old who has never been a regular starter under any Ireland coach. He is a good player but if he was good enough Munster would have offered him a bigger contract.

Schmidt's team selections are good enough to have the best win loss record of any Ireland coach ever so thats enough for me.

You mean how he appointed team captain and built a team around 33/34 year old POC which went onto win back-to-back Six Nations?

I think Schmidt's w/L record is similar to Kidney's now (might be one game in the difference).

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Schmidt is hardly going to build his team around a 33 year old who has never been a regular starter under any Ireland coach. He is a good player but if he was good enough Munster would have offered him a bigger contract.

Schmidt's team selections are good enough to have the best win loss record of any Ireland coach ever so thats enough for me.

You mean how he appointed team captain and built a team around 33/34 year old POC which went onto win back-to-back Six Nations?

I think Schmidt's w/L record is similar to Kidney's now (might be one game in the difference).

Are you comparing POC to Ryan?

Paul O'Connell is a three time Lions tourist, world player of the year nominee and had been in the Ireland leadership group since the beginning of his career. You are comparing a Ferrari with a Toyota. You really think Ryan would do a better job as captain than Best?

Kidneys Win loss ratio overall was 55% Schmidts is 67%. Big enough difference Id say.

[quote="GunsGermsV2"]

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Schmidt is hardly going to build his team around a 33 year old who has never been a regular starter under any Ireland coach. He is a good player but if he was good enough Munster would have offered him a bigger contract.

Schmidt's team selections are good enough to have the best win loss record of any Ireland coach ever so thats enough for me.

You mean how he appointed team captain and built a team around 33/34 year old POC which went onto win back-to-back Six Nations?

I think Schmidt's w/L record is similar to Kidney's now (might be one game in the difference).

Are you comparing POC to Ryan?

Age wise yes.

Paul O'Connell is a three time Lions tourist, world player of the year nominee and had been in the Ireland leadership group since the beginning of his career. You are comparing a Ferrari with a Toyota. You really think Ryan would do a better job as captain than Best?

I wasn't suggesting Ryan should be captain.

My point is being 33 isn't a factor - for example, the injured Heaslip is the same age and he got a 3 (yes, that is THREE) year central contract.

Kidneys Win loss ratio overall was 55% Schmidts is 67%. Big enough difference Id say.

Do you have the actual number of games rather than percentage?

Heaslip has 100 test caps, 2 Lions tours and two world player of a year nominations. Its a no brainier that he would get a central contract over a guy who has amassed less than half the amount of international caps and close to half the amount of club games than Heaslip.

Very few players are offered central contracts over the age of 33. Best, O'Driscoll, O'Connell. You have to be exceptional. Heaslip over the years has proven that he is Ryan hasn't.

The only reason it comes up is because there is a legion of wounded Munster fans that complain about literally everything.

If you have some stats you want to roll out do the research yourself.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Schmidt is hardly going to build his team around a 33 year old who has never been a regular starter under any Ireland coach. He is a good player but if he was good enough Munster would have offered him a bigger contract.

Schmidt's team selections are good enough to have the best win loss record of any Ireland coach ever so thats enough for me.

You mean how he appointed team captain and built a team around 33/34 year old POC which went onto win back-to-back Six Nations?

I think Schmidt's w/L record is similar to Kidney's now (might be one game in the difference).

Are you comparing POC to Ryan?

Age wise yes.

Paul O'Connell is a three time Lions tourist, world player of the year nominee and had been in the Ireland leadership group since the beginning of his career. You are comparing a Ferrari with a Toyota. You really think Ryan would do a better job as captain than Best?

I wasn't suggesting Ryan should be captain.  

My point is being 33 isn't a factor - for example, the injured Heaslip is the same age and he got a 3 (yes, that is THREE) year central contract.

Kidneys Win loss ratio overall was 55% Schmidts is 67%. Big enough difference Id say.

Do you have the actual number of games rather than percentage?

They are about the same age but Heaslip in the same time has earned over twice as many international caps
Since you like figures
Ryan 47 caps
Heaslip 95 caps and 5 Lions caps

In addition Ryan has 160 for Munster, Heaslip has 229 for Leinster.

Apart from age Heaslip and Ryan are as different as POC and Ryan you compared earlier.

Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

I saw a suggestion today that the 3 year contract was in mitigation for the paycut Heaslip took from his last deal (Bank of Ireland were paying half his salary previously, which put him level with Sexton in the top 10 highest paid rugby players globally)

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Heaslip has 100 test caps, 2 Lions tours and two world player of a year nominations. Its a no brainier that he would get a central contract over a guy who has amassed less than half the amount of international caps and close to half the amount of club games than Heaslip.

Very few players are offered central contracts over the age of 33. Best, O'Driscoll, O'Connell. You have to be exceptional. Heaslip over the years has proven that he is Ryan hasn't.

The only reason it comes up is because there is a legion of wounded Munster fans that complain about literally everything.

If you have some stats you want to roll out do the research yourself.

You said that he was too old at 33.

As for the number of Heaslip's caps - thats because he is soft git completely lacking any aggression.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

I saw a suggestion today that the 3 year contract was in mitigation for the paycut Heaslip took from his last deal (Bank of Ireland were paying half his salary previously, which put him level with Sexton in the top 10 highest paid rugby players globally)

Crikey at least BoI have seen sense.

Heaslip's agent must be some boy.

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

Lucky enough!

Its just down right stupid that an international IQ player, playing well, in a position where Ireland do not have that many options is not persuaded to stay - and in fact, expect him to take a wage cut.

You could not make it up.

rodders wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

I saw a suggestion today that the 3 year contract was in mitigation for the paycut Heaslip took from his last deal (Bank of Ireland were paying half his salary previously, which put him level with Sexton in the top 10 highest paid rugby players globally)

Crikey at least BoI have seen sense.

Heaslip's agent must be some boy.

BOD crowd I think.

rodders wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

I saw a suggestion today that the 3 year contract was in mitigation for the paycut Heaslip took from his last deal (Bank of Ireland were paying half his salary previously, which put him level with Sexton in the top 10 highest paid rugby players globally)

Crikey at least BoI have seen sense.

Heaslip's agent must be some boy.

I wonder if his agent does non-sport contract negotiations  

Getting pay-parity with Sexton was a work of genius on his last contract - Heaslip's a decent player, but no Kieran Read, and will likely be battling with Stander to get starts at 8 for Ireland going forward

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats pretty much what I said. 3 years is excessive IMO but if one guy is going to get a central contract between Ryan and Heaslip it is a no brainer that Heaslip gets it. The last time Ryan played in a full campaign was 2013. Why would you give him a central contract?

I saw a suggestion today that the 3 year contract was in mitigation for the paycut Heaslip took from his last deal (Bank of Ireland were paying half his salary previously, which put him level with Sexton in the top 10 highest paid rugby players globally)

Crikey at least BoI have seen sense.

Heaslip's agent must be some boy.

I wonder if his agent does non-sport contract negotiations  

Getting pay-parity with Sexton was a work of genius on his last contract - Heaslip's a decent player, but no Kieran Read, and will likely be battling with Stander to get starts at 8 for Ireland going forward

If they're paying him that much they'll be bloody playing him!

Don't worry. Stander is due a drop in brilliant form right about.................................................................................................................................................................................now.

SecretFly wrote:Don't worry.  Stander is due a drop in brilliant form right about.................................................................................................................................................................................now.

Stander needs an agent that will get him Heaslip's Euro per meter rate,

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

10 Feckin NIQs in a season. Bailouts. And still they're Moanin. You couldn't make it up.

Yerman is showing his true colours comparing Ryan to POC and Heaslip. Parochial as feck.. If Munster won a tiddlywinks contest in the dark against 12 yearolds he'd be on here bragging about it.

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

10 Feckin NIQs in a season. Bailouts. And still they're Moanin. You couldn't make it up.

Yerman is showing his true colours comparing Ryan to POC and Heaslip. Parochial as feck.. If Munster won a tiddlywinks contest in the dark against 12 yearolds he'd be on here bragging about it.

We need a like button on here more in keeping with the Bakebook thing, the +/- thing just doesn't do justice to comments like this.
Thumbs up for St John

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

10 Feckin NIQs in a season. Bailouts. And still they're Moanin. You couldn't make it up.

Yerman is showing his true colours comparing Ryan to POC and Heaslip. Parochial as feck.. If Munster won a tiddlywinks contest in the dark against 12 yearolds he'd be on here bragging about it.

Thats the worrying thing. We have a kiwi and an Aussie running Irish Professional rugby which seems to prefer bringing in project players rather than keeping the good players we have developed ourselves.

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.