Aus coming to India

First topic message reminder :

Australia squad Steven Smith (capt), David Warner, Matt Renshaw, Usman Khawaja, Shaun Marsh, Peter Handscomb, Glenn Maxwell, Matthew Wade (wk), Mitchell Marsh, Ashton Agar, Steve O'Keefe, Mitchell Starc, Mitchell Swepson, Josh Hazlewood, Jackson Bird, Nathan Lyon

Aus has declared their squad and they have 4 spinners + Maxwell who can bowl spin....and smith too can


and only 3 seamers in the squad....implies they will play 2 seamers and 3 spinners

india should produces pitches like they did vs NZ and SA.....krumblers and not the types they did vs Eng

No Surprise that Starc broke down.......it was discussed as a possibility on this thread earlier...given his fitness track record...and the speed at whihc he bowls

Isn't it  better to have a premium fast bowler go flat out firing on all cylinders at 153kph and make telling blows in 2 games......
then to bowl at 70% and go throuhg 4 games with moderate impact.

I prefer the first approach...now move on Starc and let someone else fresh come in and go flat out

Actually looking back his bowling hasnt load been excessive by any means so far on this tour, just 11 overs in the first match. The previous couple of months though hes been bowled far too heavily for a genuine quick .. it may be the last two series that did the damage rather than this one.

Either way his breakdown was far too predictable. At leats its not happened mid test, because that really would have left Australia in a desperate position.

Seems its going to be a toss-up between Stoinis and Maxwell for that number 6 position. Just can't understand why did they not pick Faulkner at least as a replacement for Mitchell Marsh? Perhaps they view that position as that of a specialist useless!

And Patric Cummins in for Mitchell Starc, though Jackson Bird is in the side, I feel they'll and should go in with Cummins for the next game. He seemed like a very special talent in that test he played long time ago against South Africa. There is a very sharp cricketing brain in there, and reports are that he does bowl as quickly as he ever did.

Faulkner can't bat 6, he's not really a number 7.... Stoinis IMO, is a good call...averages aren't everything, and he showed against New Zealand that he can play, why not give him a go...Maxwell is hopeless and shouldn't be anywhere near international cricket!!!

Cummins IMO will and should play...they wouldnt call him up if he wasn't going to play because he needs overs, so he will take new ball with Hazelwood, and will be great to see him in test match cricket again

msp83 wrote:Seems its going to be a toss-up between Stoinis and Maxwell for that number 6 position. Just can't understand why did they not pick Faulkner at least as a replacement for Mitchell Marsh? Perhaps they view that position as that of a specialist useless!

Yes Faulkner would be a a good choice...genuine bowler and can't bat worse than Mitchell.....maybe swap positions between  Wade & Faulkner.

Cummins is likely to break down in the midst of a  test....and  Lyon has  a raw finger
I would play Agar in place of mitchell Marsh

Been away a few days , just catching up on this thread...

msp , I see you felt I was being a little unfair in being critical of Kohli more than Smith over the drs business : I didn't mean to give that impression .  Certainly Smith was in error (never mind that I personally am not too bothered over that particular rule , that's the law) and he was probably slightly fortunate to avoid some sort of fine - though I doubt it would have been significant. Presumably there was no real evidence that Australia have been making a habit of this "tactic" .

Why I think Kohli was ill advised to continue the outrage (however genuinely felt - and I suspect from other's comments that many see it as more of a "mind game") was that I fear keeping the issue alive might actually prove a disservice to India.
Remember 2014 and the Anderson/Jadeja incident ?  Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case , one thing stood out : from the time it became apparent that India weren't going to get satisfaction on their terms , they seemed to lose a bit of focus. Anderson , and England , steamrolled them in the last three Tests to overturn a 1-0 deficit in emphatic style. The indignation that the visitors clearly felt , and their reluctance to let the matter go , certainly didn't appear to aid their performance on the field...
May have been coincidence ? Maybe ; but I don't think it suggests nursing a grudge helps them : and if (this series) becomes a battle of niggles and mind games I fancy the Aussies are rather more experienced in that department !
So I really think Kohli would be better advised to move on ( to his credit I think he is doing exactly that) and concentrate on playing good cricket.  If the two teams play without allowing unnecessary distractions to interfere with their games I think India will go on to win the series as they are simply the better team - certainly in home conditions - regardless of Australia's perhaps surprisingly spirited showing so far. Why risk anything that might distract the players from doing what they have been doing so well these last dozen or more matches ?
Anyway apologies for the long winded post but I just wanted to make clear my original views on this subject.

A see a lot of stuff in the local press about the pitch being prepared for this third match : some of it bordering on the hysterical ...

Amusing ; because prior to the implosion in Australia's performance on the last couple of days of the second Test , the same papers were chortling over the apparent fact that whatever pitch India produced seemed to work to Australian advantage ( Lyon , O'Keefe aided by big turn and the assumed superiority of the pace bowlers) : suddenly it seems those crafty groundsmen have found a way to cheat the poor visitors with a slow , low , pitch ! Devilish clever chaps.  Whoever heard of a slow , low pitch on the subcontinent

Hope Smith and his boys aren't getting worked up about it (or ready to put up excuses in advance) Both sides have to bat on it ; the toss will be an advantage to one team to a greater or lesser degree...end of the day , whoever bats with more concentration , bowls with more skill and commitment , and holds their catches , will probably win...

I do think far too much is made of "pitch doctoring" - the favourite Aussie media term - all countries. The idea that a team / board etc can just order up a designer pitch and have it trotted out to confound the opponent is way overdone in my opinion...pitch preparation is as much art as science ; is at least part hostage to weather changes - and can easily go quite awry. Sometimes an attempt to provide a little bit of life to a strip that would otherwise roll out as a bowler's graveyard may end up conferring too much advantage to the team which fields first ; sometimes merely trying to ensure a pitch lasts the full five days is seen by a visiting team as an evil scheme to neuter their pace attack ...I have no problem with anyone wanting a pitch that is typical of the ones the home side have been brought up on (which happens in Australia anyway , without any need for special instructions to groundsmen : higher bounce being the main local advantage and it is ever present ) Would be rather unreasonable to expect any team to prepare pitches that are calculated to suit their opponents !

I do hope this one ends up being a little less bowler friendly than the last two though. Think we would all appreciate good cricket over four- five days for a change ?

Cummins in for Starc seems fair enough (though a bit rough on Bird , perhaps ?).
Wonder who plays in the fourth match after Pat goes home injured

Marsh hasn't had to bowl much - and his batting remains ...limited , shall we say ? (I'm in a charitable mood) so either Maxwell or Agar probably wouldn't really detract too much from the team's strength - but it may be better to play a specialist ; despite his problems against spin , Khawaja is on the trip so why not try him ?
They'll probably pick Stoinis ...

Well there was a bullish article on cricinfo with an Aussie chap lclaiming all the pressure was on India as they were expected to beat them easily.
By picking a truely woeful side Australia will be adding to the level of expectation and pressure on India to not embaress themselves further.
It's a cunning plan. Bowling attack of Stoinis Agar and Maxwell. Hmmm

Some of these options defy belief. Almost as bad as having to draft in Batty and Ansari. Almost

For the next Surrey mafia agenda: VTR's appointment to swim with the fishes.

Ha!

Faulkner can't bat 6 and Mitchell Marsh can bat at all? Marsh over even Boycott's granny is ridiculous! Forget Faulkner, who is the real deal with the ball, and is a way superior batsman. Is he the ideal batting option at 6, not really, but if Mitchell Marsh is the alternative, give me Faulkner any day!
And slogger Maxwell? on an absolute day of his, Glenn might slog his way to a high voltage test ton even. But that can happen perhaps ones in 5 years. He's a slogger with the bat and as mediocre as they get with the ball at test level. Are they so desperate? Go for a 6th batsman, or get in even Agar. At least, the guy is a regular bowler, though not a particularly good one, and he can't be worse than Mitchell Marsh with the bat either.

Great stat from cricinfo ... this will be the first test since the 2013 ashes that Australia haven't fielded at player called Mitchell

Gooseberry wrote:Great stat from cricinfo ... this will be the first test since the 2013 ashes that Australia haven't fielded at player called Mitchell

End of an Era.

Two Matts though...perhaps the way of the future ?

Whenever Australia go away they think the pitches are doctored against them - because they're stupid fools

Remember when they were bowled out for 60 at Trent bridge England managed to doctor the pitch between innings........

Well Maxwells proving a few of his doubters wrong by exceeding expectations and reaching double figures

Maxwellball is the best cricket

Hey hes looking good for a century here




(with the ball)



Joking aside

Maxwell's 75no is the highest score by an Australian No.6 since Steve Smith's 100 against South Africa in Centurion in Feb, 2014

Thats quite a thing. And sure Smith may be demonstrating that he is a flat track bully at the other end but you cant ask much more from Maxwell. The early wickets will likely still tell over the course of the game if this continues to flatten out but fair play to him...Maxwell is doing a cricket.

kingraf wrote:I was watching a program on ESPN a couple weeks ago where they were discussing the greatest athlete in the world. Being an American program,  of course their nominees were very American. LeBron James and Tom Brady. But when you look at it from a historical standpoint, wrt what the historical data suggests makes for a great participant in their sport of choice, it's hard to think Steve Smith doesn't have a shout to be the best athlete in the world today, after Bolt anyway

BOOOM

Tough day for India. Steven Smith is making the most of the flat conditions on offer with a fine ton, Virat Kohli injured himself and is a doubt for the rest of the game at least if not more. And on top of all that, Glenn Maxwell is nearing that ones in 5 years ton, that too by playing some decent cricket! Is there a greater insult?
With Kohli not fit, India's chances have already taken a beating, and witth Australia sett to score big in the first innings, witth nearly 300 on the board and many more on the cards, India will do very well to save this one.......

I wouldn't be surprised if Glenn Maxwell is a lurker on here and used some of the comments for motivation

kingraf wrote:

kingraf wrote:I was watching a program on ESPN a couple weeks ago where they were discussing the greatest athlete in the world. Being an American program,  of course their nominees were very American. LeBron James and Tom Brady. But when you look at it from a historical standpoint, wrt what the historical data suggests makes for a great participant in their sport of choice, it's hard to think Steve Smith doesn't have a shout to be the best athlete in the world today, after Bolt anyway

BOOOM

I find it hard to consider cricketers great "athletes" for some reason

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

kingraf wrote:

kingraf wrote:I was watching a program on ESPN a couple weeks ago where they were discussing the greatest athlete in the world. Being an American program,  of course their nominees were very American. LeBron James and Tom Brady. But when you look at it from a historical standpoint, wrt what the historical data suggests makes for a great participant in their sport of choice, it's hard to think Steve Smith doesn't have a shout to be the best athlete in the world today, after Bolt anyway

BOOOM

I find it hard to consider cricketers great "athletes" for some reason

More than once the late great Colin Milburn proved in pre-season training that he was faster than anyone in the world over a 3 mile run. Mind you, he did cadge a lift on the back of a milk float for much of the way!

I also find it hard to call Smith the greatest current player let alone so dominant in his chosen sport that no other has ever equalled him.
He can't even decide whether to use a review without help.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

kingraf wrote:

kingraf wrote:I was watching a program on ESPN a couple weeks ago where they were discussing the greatest athlete in the world. Being an American program,  of course their nominees were very American. LeBron James and Tom Brady. But when you look at it from a historical standpoint, wrt what the historical data suggests makes for a great participant in their sport of choice, it's hard to think Steve Smith doesn't have a shout to be the best athlete in the world today, after Bolt anyway

BOOOM

I find it hard to consider cricketers great "athletes" for some reason

Gold and sailing are both sports. So is equestrianism despite the fact that the name sounds like racism against horses. Cricket is ergo a sport and cricketers are athletes

I'm calling shenanigans on gold as a sport.

Dwayne Leverock was called a lot of things but rarely an athlete

kingraf wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

kingraf wrote:

kingraf wrote:I was watching a program on ESPN a couple weeks ago where they were discussing the greatest athlete in the world. Being an American program,  of course their nominees were very American. LeBron James and Tom Brady. But when you look at it from a historical standpoint, wrt what the historical data suggests makes for a great participant in their sport of choice, it's hard to think Steve Smith doesn't have a shout to be the best athlete in the world today, after Bolt anyway

BOOOM

I find it hard to consider cricketers great "athletes" for some reason

Gold and sailing are both sports. So is equestrianism despite the fact that the name sounds like racism against horses. Cricket is ergo a sport and cricketers are athletes

Apologies if I've turned up at the wrong party but I can't buy into the apparent idea that all sports participants are athletes. Darts and snooker are sports but I'll take a lot of persuading that Jocky Wilson and Bill Werbeniuk were ever athletes. The returning Corporal at least will understand the references!

Athlete is a poor term anyway. Tom Brady is a terrible athlete, but he is a fantastic football player. I doubt Steve Smith is a great athlete, but he is a fantastic sportsman. Like Jocky Wilson was a fantastic sportsman.

I think it's hard to accept cricketers as great athletes as you don't necessarily need to be much of an athlete to succeed. Put it this way, you'll never see someone like Inzaman competing for a track gold medal!

the pitch is really flat and there was one good passage of play when India got them 3 down and then 4 down quickly inspite of the flatness of the pitch......Umesh bowled really well reversing at 90mph

then two things happened ......pitch remained flat and India lost Kohli to the shoulder injury....and India missed the aggressive , busy, in your face captaincy of Kohli's ability to create wickets.

Poor Rahane was just too frozen

India needs Kohli to be fit enough to be on the field

Flat pitch.
Australia (well Smith and Maxwell) batted really well - patience and concentration.
Kohli going off may indeed have left things a little ...flat , on the field ; but I am not sure it would have made a huge difference.

Predictions ? In this series I am not confident of making any , but : if I have to guess I think the pitch will hold up for at least a couple more days , Australia will make well over 400 , India will respond in kind and the match will be drawn.

Probably finish in three and a half now

451...pressures on India for sure but you'd fancy them to get a lead if kholi isn't affected. Australia will have a real issue in the lack of depth to their bowling which didn't hurt them so much on 4 day pitches.

Although the way this is shaping up maxwell will take 10 for 20

BREAKING

No wait....not breaking is Pat Cummins - he's made it through a spell

Hi folks - in the current era and particularly on this track, 450 seems a decent score but not insurmountable.

Assuming Maxwell doesn't surprise with the ball as much as he did with the bat, Australia may be a bowler light and end up paying for it if India can keep wickets in hand. What's the position with Kohli please? His injury and any restrictions on him batting even if ok?

Not sure about how injured Kohli is but I believe the kind of injury means he can bat whenever he likes no matter how long he stays off the pitch.

This must be just about the worst Test that Cummins could make a comeback for. The default has to be short spells, but that will leave Australia very light on bowling, which could then tempt Smith to give him a longer spell. Best case is a lot of short spells - maybe 7 or 8 over the innings

I wouldn't be surprised to see him break down again after this

--This pitch at Ranchi is more like the ones rolled out to Eng.....slow turn, low and progressively deteriorating to make batting awkward on D4 and D5...but even then would be  worth 200 runs in 4th inning.....

--The script is also like the one we saw against Eng.....Aus won the toss and got 450....but they can't feel entirely safe about it.
The might of the Indian batting can stand up and get 100 runs on.....

so far they have done well.....Rahul did well but should be  disappointed that he didn't convert again....Vijay it appears is hampered in free flowing stroke play and yet batting quite solidly....

Kohli will be fit to bat tomm and India has an extra batsman in Nair......but first they need to not collapse ...lose no more than 2 or 3 wickets in first 2 sessions....

--the pitch also makes Lyon and O'Keefe look so "Batty-ish "and "Ansari-ish" respectively .....Cummins has X factor and unlike the English seamers ......Aussies are making their express bowlers go flat out...even its for a game or two....

Cummins in physical stature,  style and speed  resembles what I saw of an Unadulterated Finn touching 95mph on the 2012 tour of India.

--I look back at my posts at the start of this thread...and I remember Maxwell was in my starting 11......he is a FTB...and of there is a place where his probability of striking is higher...it's on flat Indian pitches.....

Don't expect a repeat for several innings from him...though as a package he is better than Mitch marsh...although they haven't needed to use his bowling yet.

--India could still collapse and hand over a lead...but given the pitch and limitation of Aussie spinners......I would put 60-40 chance on India getting some kind of lead ( perhaps 100ish)

Can't see much to disagree with in KP-f 's summary

Though I think you're being a bit harsh on Rahul : he got a really awkward , well directed lifter which came rather out of the blue and I can't blame him for being unable to get his glove out of the way. Must say I thought he was nailed on for a hundred this time ! But he has been wonderfully consistent.

Thought Cummins bowled very well on comeback : deserved the wicket , greeted Pujara with an excellent first up delivery and generally kept his pace up well...promising signs. Though if he has to do a lot of work tomorrow they may regret putting him through this...

I liked the draw yesterday , and like it more now. But things could easily change so I'm keeping my money in my pocket

Smith was excellent again : hang the aesthetics , he just keeps making runs ; Maxwell surprised most by keeping his head and playing a well paced innings that will probably keep him at six for a game or two ; Jadeja demonstrated some quite brilliant fielding in running out Hazlewood as well as being the pick of the bowlers - but a word for Umesh as well , I thought he worked his socks off and could have been better rewarded.

Good match in progress , if less pyrotechnics than the earlier games.

James100 wrote:Not sure about how injured Kohli is but I believe the kind of injury means he can bat whenever he likes no matter how long he stays off the pitch.

Thanks, James. Hadn't heard anything about him not being allowed to bat until a certain point which backs up your understanding that he could bat whenever he likes.

Haven't been able to watch much of this game but, like at the end of day one, it again seems nicely poised.

Couple of early wickets tomorrow and Australia will have their tails up and be looking good. However, if India can make it to lunch with still only one down they'll have moved closer to the box seats.

Anyway, I'll wait until lunch tomorrow before making a call. Alifie's ever increasing draw could be the favourite then but I well understand his money staying in his pocket!

Another day for batsman in this test. Ravindra Jadeja, Umesh Yadav and Patric Cummins made things interesting with the ball to the extend possible on this flat track, but Steven Smith, Glenn Maxwell and KL Rahul had answers for most of the questions for long periods.
Virat Kohli's injury is ruled to be external as he picked up the injury while landing heavily when fielding, and as such, can bat at his position of choice. But how fit he'll be and how would the body react, is anyone's guess. Sunny Gavaskar feels he should bat only if absolutely necessary. Hopefully, Vijay and Pujara will be able to give the skipper some more time to recover.......

An interesting question. Among India's spin twins, who is better on flat tracks? It was widely believed to be Ravichandran Ashwin, but I, having rated Ravindra Jadeja's bowling a lot higher than many did right from the time of his test debut, feel that he's closing in on Ashwin.......

Ashwin has become a guy who can take any wicket at any time on any track. Jadeja is not far behind.
It's crazy that not many years ago both were struggling to justify being selected at all and seen as getting picked over "proper" bowlers because they could bat a bit

msp83 wrote:An interesting question. Among India's spin twins, who is better on flat tracks?  It was widely believed to be Ravichandran Ashwin, but I, having rated Ravindra Jadeja's bowling a lot higher than many did right from the time of his test debut, feel that he's closing in on Ashwin.......

Not really....ashwin is far more superior...in flight, loop, variations, doosras, teesras, carom ball, leg-breaks, floaters....etc. etc...

Jadeja is not a single trick, but a 3 trick pony.....very efficiently and accurately using his 3 tricks ...needs a rough pitch or a patch.....and   exploited the rough patch better today...
and ashwin is getting a a bit tired at the end of a long, long season

I can admit though Jadeja is fitter and stronger

Ashwin still has an overseas record to correct, though he does seem better placed to do that than at earlier stages in his career. But Jadeja's evolution has, like his emergence, been understated but very effective.

msp83 wrote:Ashwin still has an overseas record to correct, though he does seem better placed to do that than at earlier stages in his career. But Jadeja's evolution has, like his emergence, been understated but very effective. on a rough pitch or one with a rough patch  

completed as I see it

Interestingly, Jadeja has overtaken Ashwin in terms of first innings wickets in this home season, at a better average too. He's deadly when there is some natural variation from the pitch, but that we already knew. Towards the end of the South Africa series last season, he had started using more flight and variation in pace to extract more witth the ball. And sometimes worked with a more side-on action. And that process continues to evolve slowly and steadily. Yes, his greatest strength is his accuracy, and he's using that strength to make the most of whatever little life available from the track. But there are other aspects to his bowling and he's not stagnated as a bowler, continues to add more, without losing out on his strengthes.

a wicket last ball before lunch turned a great session for India into still a good one....
half of session runs came in last 30 minutes and Vijay got carried away by his own momentum to be stumped

India needs to go throuhg this session with no more than a wicket